Only the educated and experienced about cycles.

[Toogood]

Alright guys I plan on doing my first cycle in about a month to start off my bulking phase for the off season. Just wanted to make sure everything is thought out down to a tee so here it goes.

Age: 21
Weight: 165 (contest) 185 (Off Season)
Experience: 5 years total. 3 years strict dieting and lifting.

Since this is going to be my first cycle I wanted to do a mild substance that will still give me substantial gains. I would like to gain a good solid 20-30 pounds off of it and keep around 15-20 pounds after its all said and done with the PCT.

From my research I came up with Sustanon 250.

Dosing: Monday- 250mg, Thursday- 250mg. (This dosing allows for me to take advantage of the short and long esters of the chemical)

Total: 500mg per week for 12 weeks.

My PCT would start exactly one week after the last injection.
This is where I am kinda stuck on which dosage would be the best for the Sustanon I am using.
PCT: consist of Formestane, Unleashed, HcGenerate and possibly Forge Steel.

From what I have gathered I believe that those products are going to be the best to combat my potential sides I will have on cycle such as gyno. They will also provide me with a adequate post cycle therapy to raise my test levels back up and keep estrogen down.

Also I have done contest before in the past and placed in the top positions every time so I know my dieting and training is on point.

Dieting consists of the usual, brown rice, chicken, tuna, egg whites, veggies, oatmeal and of course the healthy fats etc. The whole 9 yards.

Macros: calculated at 165lbs are: Protein- 175g. Carbs- 210g. Fats- 90g. Total Calories roughly 2400. Will increase as I gain each week. Gaining about a pound and a half to 2 pounds a week. (Without the cycle)

My training is going to be heavy lifting increasing weight every week. If you guys want me to list out every aspect of my training I will, but I know its on point for gaining mass and strength.

Hope to get some educated responses and thanks for advance for you help.

 

[squatzilla]

How tall are you & what do you Bench, Squat & Deadlift ?

 

[RADAR]

Your diet will determine how much you gain, get plenty of nuts/boiled eggs etc.

 

[zedhed]

Looks pretty good however I would have an AI on hand too. Prefer Aeromasin but Arimidex works very well too.

 

[Toogood]

I am about 5'7-5'8. Bench is hovering between 315-330 right now. Squat is around 450 (Weak Point), Deads I am not too sure.

Arimidex I have heard a little bit about but I'm not too knowledge about that. Exactly what does that do?

Also how does the PCT look? Is that a good dosing scheme for the Sustanon 250

 

[EZ_E]

21 y.o......why is everyone in such a rush these days?

~EZ

 

[obsessedwliftin]

I am about 5'7-5'8. Bench is hovering between 315-330 right now. Squat is around 450 (Weak Point), Deads I am not too sure.

Arimidex I have heard a little bit about but I'm not too knowledge about that. Exactly what does that do?

Also how does the PCT look? Is that a good dosing scheme for the Sustanon 250

Arimidex-

Anastrozole is an anti estrogenic drug developed for the treatment of advanced breast cancer in women. Specifically, this agent is the first in a newer class of third generation selective oral aromatase inhibitors. It acts by blocking the enzyme aromatase, subsequently blocking the production of estrogen in the body. Since many forms of breast cancer cells are stimulated by estrogen, reducing levels of this hormone in the body may retard the progression of the disease. This is also the fundamental use of tamoxifen citrate (Nolvadex), except nolvadex blocks the action of estrogen at the receptor, not its actual endogenous production. The effects of anastrozole can be very substantial, with a daily dosage of 1mg capable of production estrogen suppression greater than 80% in treated patients. With the powerful effect this drug has on hormone levels, it is usually only prescribed to post menopausal women. Anastrozole was developed by Zeneca Pharmaceuticals, and approved for use in the United States at the end of 1995. The drug was developed as a new adjunct treatment for operable breast cancer in postmenopausal female patients, an area of medicine that had a long history of nolvadex use. Substantial date was needed to shit prescribing trends away from such an established medication treatment.
Most commonly called Arimidex, this substance is a true aromatase inhibitor which works by blocking the aromatase enzyme in the body, thus limiting the amount of estrogen buildup that takes place. This compound has obvious benefits to bodybuilders who use aromatizing steroids such as testosterone. These individuals might face estrogen related side effects such as water bloat and "gyno", but by taking Arimidex while on cycle, the chance of any of these sides are greatly reduced. In studies that have been done, Arimidex has been shown to reduce estrogen in the body by roughly 50%. This is a good balance for bodybuilders , because some estrogen is needed in order for the full anabolic benefits of the steroids being taken to be achieved. These results are typically the same with a dosage of .5 mg a day as they are with a dosage of 1 mg a day, meaning that in most cases, a half tablet a day will be sufficient for estrogen control throughout cycle. Typically, bodybuilders using Arimidex will begin taking it the day they start their cycle, and will run it throughout the duration of steroid administration. It is also important to point out Arimidex’s ability to increase testosterone in the body. Some studies have shown that natural testosterone levels have increases as much as 60% after the use of this substance for 7 days. Because of this, bodybuilders find this drug extremely effective during PCT where as they are trying to elevate natural levels as much as possible in order to avoid a post cycle "crash".
When used to mitigate the estrogenic side effects of anabolic/androgenic steroid use, male athletes and bodybuilders will commonly take a dose of .5mg to 1mg of anastrozole per day. In some instances a half of a tablet taken every other day is sufficient to mitigate the buildup of estrogen. When used with readily aromatizing androgens such as methandrostenolone or testosterone, gynecomastia and water retention are often effectively blocked. Additionally, the use of anastrozole may decrease fat mass, which can also be tied to estrogen levels. The result can be a harder and much more defined look to the muscles and physique, which makes this agent of interest for dieting and cutting purposes as well.

Right off of drugprofiles.com

 

[obsessedwliftin]

Also you are actually closer to 2800 cals on your diet than 2400 based on the gram breakdown of your nutrients. Dosing on the 250 looks great to me. That is how I would run it personally. Your PCT looks pretty good IMO.

 

[Toogood]

Also you are actually closer to 2800 cals on your diet than 2400 based on the gram breakdown of your nutrients. Dosing on the 250 looks great to me. That is how I would run it personally. Your PCT looks pretty good IMO.

175g protein x4= 700 calories
210g carbs x4= 840 calories
90g fat x 9= 810 calories

Total calories= 2350 calories.

(Correct me if I'm wrong).

So do you think I should add in the Arimidex or is my PCT good the way it is?
Also does anyone have any advice on the dosages?

 

[wannabuildmuscle]

You want to have the armidex in hand to use .5 or 1 mg ed to combat the sides of gyno if it arises in the middle of your cycle. The rest looks pretty good, looks like you did your reasearch.

 

[Toogood]

21 y.o......why is everyone in such a rush these days?

~EZ

Im definitely not in a rush to start a cycle. I personally believe that since I'm young and in my youth I want to look the best I can and I do not think one cycle planed out with proper dosages and PCT will do any harm to me. So why not start now?

 

[stevesmi]

Since this is going to be my first cycle I wanted to do a mild substance that will still give me substantial gains. I would like to gain a good solid 20-30 pounds off of it and keep around 15-20 pounds after its all said and done with the PCT.
.

bro these types of goals are unrealistic and unnecessary.

if you gained that much weight that fast it would just be water weight.

also wanting a mild substance that will give you substantial gains and not suppress you isn't realistic either. all AAS will suppress, some more than others.

at your height and weight and the stats you are saying I have no problem recommending a first cycle to you...

a good first cycle is test for 10 weeks, maybe kickstarted with some low dose dbol. if you are gonna run sustanon for 12 weeks keep in mind its gonna be in your system 15 weeks total which will make recovery tougher. i would drop it down to 10 weeks.

and for PCT i always recommend hcg, HMG, low dose SERM, and natty supps like unleashed/post cycle and hcgenerate then bloods should be run

 

[Toogood]

You want to have the armidex in hand to use .5 or 1 mg ed to combat the sides of gyno if it arises in the middle of your cycle. The rest looks pretty good, looks like you did your reasearch.

Wouldn't the forma be good enough to combat the sides of gyno? If not I will def pick some up just to be safe. Thats one of my worse fears is to get gyno lol.

Thanks though man, I did do a decent amount of research so I don't mess anything up while ON cycle and OFF cycle.

Whats the typical gains one can see with sust 250? Granted there diet and training is on point.

 

[stevesmi]

Im definitely not in a rush to start a cycle. I personally believe that since I'm young and in my youth I want to look the best I can and I do not think one cycle planed out with proper dosages and PCT will do any harm to me. So why not start now?

there are many guys on this site who ran cycles young and ran into gyno, and recovery issues. one guy actually had to go on TRT in his early 20's for the rest of his life. so there are risks, the sooner you open the can of worms the bigger the risks.

at 21 you are still pretty young. ever see a pic of someone who is 30 vs. 21? you will see a man vs. boy in this pics. in fact, most of the stronger guys I've seen at the gym are in their 40's, not 20's.

 

[Toogood]

I thought it was typical for a first user to gain that amount of weight during a cycle for 10-12 weeks? But it does make since that a lot of that would be water weight, whats the average one can expect for there first cycle just so I have something to go by.

Also I just said I wanted a mild substance, not one thats mild and doesn't suppress me... Not too sure what you mean by suppress though.

there are many guys on this site who ran cycles young and ran into gyno, and recovery issues. one guy actually had to go on TRT in his early 20's for the rest of his life. so there are risks, the sooner you open the can of worms the bigger the risks.

at 21 you are still pretty young. ever see a pic of someone who is 30 vs. 21? you will see a man vs. boy in this pics. in fact, most of the stronger guys I've seen at the gym are in their 40's, not 20's.

Now those guys you mentioned that ran into gyno and recovery problems, did they actually do a proper cycle and PCT? Or did they stack too many compounds during there first cycle?

I don't think your comparison is valid, thats like comparing Tom Brady to Tim Tebow... of course Brady is 100000 times better because he's been in the game a lot longer then Tebow..

Same goes for a 30 year old compared to a 21 year old.. Yes I am 21, (In my youth) not any where close to my PRIME where as the 30 year old is in fact in his prime.

Thanks for your advice though, I'm not too sure I want to do dbol.. Seems like a little too strong for me for my first cycle so I'm just gonna stick with one compound.
I will also drop my cycle down to 10 weeks as well. That will be better for me anyways since I have some things coming up around November and don't want to be on a cycle when I go on a cruise.

What Serm do you usually use?

 

[stevesmi]

I thought it was typical for a first user to gain that amount of weight during a cycle for 10-12 weeks? But it does make since that a lot of that would be water weight, whats the average one can expect for there first cycle just so I have something to go by.

the reason first time roid users gain so much is cause a lot of times they are way below their genetic potential... like if a guy benches 125 pounds, runs 6 weeks of dbol and now benches 200 he will brag to his friends he put on 75 pounds of strength on his bench, when all along it was the fact he never worked out hard and he could of easily got to 200 without AAS. this happens all the time. my last tren cycle i gained 2, yes TWO pounds.. and it was a successful cycle. i have a log up with before and after pics.. the scale means nothing, the best indicator of a good cycle is before/after pics.

Also I just said I wanted a mild substance, not one thats mild and doesn't suppress me... Not too sure what you mean by suppress though.

all AAS will suppress your HPTA, some will shut you down quicker than others.. some will shut you down longer than others.

Now those guys you mentioned that ran into gyno and recovery problems, did they actually do a proper cycle and PCT? Or did they stack too many compounds during there first cycle?

they all had 1 thing in common.. lack of experience.. they were not able to see the mistakes they were making so they compounded it instead of correcting them. you wanting to run test only is a smart decision... running deca or tren for a first cycle is not.

I don't think your comparison is valid, thats like comparing Tom Brady to Tim Tebow... of course Brady is 100000 times better because he's been in the game a lot longer then Tebow..

Same goes for a 30 year old compared to a 21 year old.. Yes I am 21, (In my youth) not any where close to my PRIME where as the 30 year old is in fact in his prime.

when you juice you are opening up a can of worms... your HPTA will get effected, the longer you hold out the better for this reason. i guarantee you your test levels right now are high enough to get great gains naturally with some supplements that aren't suppressive. i hate to see people in their 20's go on TRT, its a waste.

Thanks for your advice though, I'm not too sure I want to do dbol.. Seems like a little too strong for me for my first cycle so I'm just gonna stick with one compound.
I will also drop my cycle down to 10 weeks as well. That will be better for me anyways since I have some things coming up around November and don't want to be on a cycle when I go on a cruise.

What Serm do you usually use?

depends on the cycle but for your situation a low dose clomid 12.5-25mg ED will be sufficient WITH natty supps like unleashed/post cycle to give you that extra boost

in bold, hope i answered your questions and this makes sense. for the record like i said above i think for your height you are a pretty strong dude for being natural. I am 5 6 and my max bench is 330ish too but my legs are way stronger.. perhaps you should hammer your legs a bit more before running your first cycle at the very least.

 

[EZ_E]

Stevesmi took the words right outta my mouth...

~EZ

 

[Toogood]

in bold, hope i answered your questions and this makes sense. for the record like i said above i think for your height you are a pretty strong dude for being natural. I am 5 6 and my max bench is 330ish too but my legs are way stronger.. perhaps you should hammer your legs a bit more before running your first cycle at the very least.

Very true about guys starting out with very little experience and then gaining that much strength, I didn't really take that into consideration.

Your information was helpful and you did answer my questions.

Could you give me the link to your Tren cycle, I want to see how it looked and how it was planned out. Also yes I am young and should probably wait a little longer to do them but I think it would be safe to just do this one cycle to give me a little extra boost. I only plan on doing one cycle anyways, nothing more.

Since you seem real knowledgeable about how to run a correct cycle could you help me out with what you would do with the dosages of the PCT and when exactly to take it? I will also be getting some clomid as you mentioned, start taking that for the duration of the cycle as well?

Thanks again for advice and your lengthly post. I have also been hitting my legs pretty hard and they are improving with every workout!

 

[obsessedwliftin]

175g protein x4= 700 calories
210g carbs x4= 840 calories
90g fat x 9= 810 calories

Total calories= 2350 calories.

(Correct me if I'm wrong).

So do you think I should add in the Arimidex or is my PCT good the way it is?
Also does anyone have any advice on the dosages?

I would definitely have the adex on hand bro. Not worth it if estrogen spikes. As said above .5 ir 1.0 would be your dosage per day I would almost run it just for insurance really. Like you I would rather be safe than sorry. You do seem strong bro so I hope this cycle serves you well.


Posted with my Droid EO Forum App

 

[obsessedwliftin]

And I must stand corrected I miscalculated on your nutrients so I do apologize on that one bro. My bad.

Posted with my Droid EO Forum App

 

[Toogood]

I would definitely have the adex on hand bro. Not worth it if estrogen spikes. As said above .5 ir 1.0 would be your dosage per day I would almost run it just for insurance really. Like you I would rather be safe than sorry. You do seem strong bro so I hope this cycle serves you well.


Posted with my Droid EO Forum App

Yeah I will def get one of those and run it for insurance most definitely, and its ok man, simple mistake. I think I am strong as well, I can out lift most people thats around my same weight. Cant imagine what I will be able to do while on a cycle. Thanks for you help though, its really appreciated.

Do you have a site thats real reputable and has quality products you order all your stuff from? Or can we not talk about other websites like that? Thanks.

 

[stevesmi]

Very true about guys starting out with very little experience and then gaining that much strength, I didn't really take that into consideration.

Your information was helpful and you did answer my questions.

Could you give me the link to your Tren cycle, I want to see how it looked and how it was planned out. Also yes I am young and should probably wait a little longer to do them but I think it would be safe to just do this one cycle to give me a little extra boost. I only plan on doing one cycle anyways, nothing more.

Since you seem real knowledgeable about how to run a correct cycle could you help me out with what you would do with the dosages of the PCT and when exactly to take it? I will also be getting some clomid as you mentioned, start taking that for the duration of the cycle as well?

Thanks again for advice and your lengthly post. I have also been hitting my legs pretty hard and they are improving with every workout!

when you click on someones profile then go to find threads that will show you any threads a person started. here it is. you can copy the PCT and hcg protocol i used.. you do not need cabaser for test only obviously so ignore that.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/okay-tren-mast-test-cycle-log-743827.html

keep in mind testosterone is very suppressive.. by week 5 you will be 'shutdown' in most cases. thats why its good to run hcgenerate or hcg starting week 4 to keep your nuts plump so that the rebound is softer. in my experience it really does help bigtime

 

[Toogood]

when you click on someones profile then go to find threads that will show you any threads a person started. here it is. you can copy the PCT and hcg protocol i used.. you do not need cabaser for test only obviously so ignore that.

keep in mind testosterone is very suppressive.. by week 5 you will be 'shutdown' in most cases. thats why its good to run hcgenerate or hcg starting week 4 to keep your nuts plump so that the rebound is softer. in my experience it really does help bigtime

Looks like a pretty strong cycle for sure, I will read it more in depth when I have a little bit more time. HcGenerate is a little better then hcg isn't it?

 

[RottenWillow]

Im definitely not in a rush to start a cycle. I personally believe that since I'm young and in my youth I want to look the best I can and I do not think one cycle planed out with proper dosages and PCT will do any harm to me. So why not start now?

then decrease the amount you're planning to use by 50%. That would surely be well over double what your body currently produces on it's own.

 

[Toogood]

then decrease the amount you're planning to use by 50%. That would surely be well over double what your body currently produces on it's own.

Even if I use only 50% of what I planned so 125 mlg a week, that is still more then double what I naturally produce a week. The average individual produces about 50-75 mlg a week..

I was thinking that 500 mlg a week would be a really good amount to give me a good extra kick of test without overkilling it. Any other thoughts?

 

[Nelson Montana]

First of all, you're not going to keep 30 pounds. Not muscle anyway.

HCGen and FOrma are best while on along with N2GAURD. For PCT go with UNLEASHED and POST CYCLE.

At 21 years of age, I'd keep the cycle to 4 weeks to avoid problems.

 

[Toogood]

First of all, you're not going to keep 30 pounds. Not muscle anyway.

HCGen and FOrma are best while on along with N2GAURD. For PCT go with UNLEASHED and POST CYCLE.

At 21 years of age, I'd keep the cycle to 4 weeks to avoid problems.

Thats why I said I would like to KEEP about 15-20 pounds. It will more then likely be around 10-15 pounds realistically.

So your saying weeks 1-12 do 500 mlg of test along with the HCGen, Forma and N2guard? What would you dose those at as well?

From what everyone is saying and what I have read 4 weeks would not be long enough to reap the benefits. What problems do you think will happen if I ran it for 10?