Obama Lays-Out $1.5T in New Taxes

[mrplunkey]

LOl... and lol@ the rest of these people who do not know what this dude is really doing. It is called a Undistributed Profit Tax, that is the correct economic rhetoric..

I wonder who influenced him?? The Revenue Act of 1936.

The correct answer is to keep the unpaid dividends in their respective non-US entities until Barry and his kind goes away.

Need the cash? No problem. Just borrow in the US at historically low rates against your holdings outside the US. There are some miscues you can make that will link the holdings (and make them subject to taxes), but those can be mitigated as well.

Good times!

 

[ledhead]

The correct answer is to keep the unpaid dividends in their respective non-US entities until Barry and his kind goes away.

Need the cash? No problem. Just borrow in the US at historically low rates against your holdings outside the US. There are some miscues you can make that will link the holdings (and make them subject to taxes), but those can be mitigated as well.

Good times!

Exactly... I will expound later tonight.

I'm out! Later on...

 

[canadianhitman]

The correct answer is to keep the unpaid dividends in their respective non-US entities until Barry and his kind goes away.

Need the cash? No problem. Just borrow in the US at historically low rates against your holdings outside the US. There are some miscues you can make that will link the holdings (and make them subject to taxes), but those can be mitigated as well.

Good times!

There IS intelligent life on EF after all!

 

[mrplunkey]

There IS intelligent life on EF after all!

I find it comforting that barry's politicalization of monetary policies is insuring outstanding access to cheap credit exclusively to people who don't need it. Then he beats the class warfare/higher taxes drum, inspiring those same people to leave funds unrepatriated and use the cheap US credit instead.

What would be even cooler is for Buffet and Immelt/GE to setup a financing company dedicated to making those specific types of loans. That would have me laughing ass off. And in an even funnier scenario, the company should get US stimulus grants for its startup capital and book its gains in Ireland to avoid US taxes. Warren and Jeff would be my heroes 100x over if they could pull that off.

 

[redsamurai]

You fell for the talking point. No one is advocating the rich pay less taxes. They already pay the most at the highest rate.

This talking point is a trick to force people who receive money that had already been taxed to be taxed again at 25% instead of 15%, when the right answer should be zero.

in principle i actually agree with you but i'm not buying that these people we're talking about really do pay their share, forget about their investments. I agree double taxation is bullshit...i really do. But the last couple years we've been regaled (sp?) with story after story of these swindlers..especially on wall street...are making off with 10's of millions by gaming the system. The SEC simply cannot keep up with these guys and how they hide/shuffle their money. Liek i said earlier i'd rather they just round these guys up instead of making the tax system even more bloated and complicated than it already is. Fuck i just read that Canada is telling the IRS to back the fuck off from coming after dual citizens in Canada who haven't even worked in teh U.S in decades. It's getting absurd. I'd rather Obama just dictator up and send out the school bus's to pick some of these swine up but...ah well.

 

[kx250rider]

California taxes your state income tax refund as income.

OH YES... And that's not the only little scam CA has going. They tax you on income that you never made in CA, and income that has NOTHING TO DO with CA. Sometimes you can get it back, but you have to pay an estimate up front. Now think for a second: How much does it cost to go get a quick personal loan from a pawn shop or a bank? 18%, 30%,??? Well, CA extorts loans from just about everybody in the country who has any business at all in CA; even if it's only a vacation home, or a small business, or whatever. You have to go ahead and file a CA return, and pay an estimate. Look at this pic, and see the date of the check they finally wrote, and the tax year it's to refund for. I'm not saying what the actual original estimate paid on April 15, 2007, but it was a LOT, and it was based on gross 2006 income from a small business IN TEXAS and BEFORE expenses. CA got to "borrow" that amount, and keep it for well over a year, and they only had to pay 3% interest. To me, that represents an additional unspoken TAX for about $100,000.00!!!!!!!!!!! And they wonder why Amazon left CA suddenly, and why the CA business climate is so rotten? Somebody is retarded in Sacramento. I'll consider us lucky that it didn't BOUNCE, knowing the financial situation in CA.



Charles

 

[Mr. dB]

logic

You shouldn't use words you can't comprehend.

 

[mrplunkey]

in principle i actually agree with you but i'm not buying that these people we're talking about really do pay their share, forget about their investments. I agree double taxation is bullshit...i really do. But the last couple years we've been regaled (sp?) with story after story of these swindlers..especially on wall street...are making off with 10's of millions by gaming the system. The SEC simply cannot keep up with these guys and how they hide/shuffle their money. Liek i said earlier i'd rather they just round these guys up instead of making the tax system even more bloated and complicated than it already is. Fuck i just read that Canada is telling the IRS to back the fuck off from coming after dual citizens in Canada who haven't even worked in teh U.S in decades. It's getting absurd. I'd rather Obama just dictator up and send out the school bus's to pick some of these swine up but...ah well.

1) Don't fault businesspeople for taking advantage of loopholes created by corrupt politicians. If you want less corruption, then make government smaller.

2) The world's best (arguably) tax evader is GE. Thanks to lobbyists and enviro-whacko's, they actually payed a negative tax rate. I was laughing my ass off.

3) And what happens when GE does game the system better than anyone else? The president invites its CEO to sit with his family during his Joint Session of Congress while he preaches-on about "investments" in our economy, knowing full well he's going to go on a tax offensive a week later. How dumb can Americans possibly be to fall for that?

 

[digimon7068]

1) Don't fault businesspeople for taking advantage of loopholes created by corrupt politicians. If you want less corruption, then make government smaller.

2) The world's best (arguably) tax evader is GE. Thanks to lobbyists and enviro-whacko's, they actually payed a negative tax rate. I was laughing my ass off.

3) And what happens when GE does game the system better than anyone else? The president invites its CEO to sit with his family during his Joint Session of Congress while he preaches-on about "investments" in our economy, knowing full well he's going to go on a tax offensive a week later. How dumb can Americans possibly be to fall for that?

i don't know the exact facts and circumstances of general electric's tax returns but, generally speaking, businesses large and small get big tax breaks for (among other things) spending large sums of money on research and development of products, processes, etc. that are aimed at making our lives easier, safer, cleaner, more energy efficient, etc...thus, relieving the government of a significant amount of responsibility...and the tax breaks are their reward for committing the time, money and effort required to accomplish those tasks...generally, the goverment only gives these kinds of tax breaks where they see that there is a need or where an initiative has been established (e.g., energy efficiency, carbon reduction, energy independence, etc.)...if we eliminate those tax breaks then it will wind up being the government's responsibility to do all the research and development, and that would catastrophic.

 

[mrplunkey]

i don't know the exact facts and circumstances of general electric's tax returns but, generally speaking, businesses large and small get big tax breaks for (among other things) spending large sums of money on research and development of products, processes, etc. that are aimed at making our lives easier, safer, cleaner, more energy efficient, etc...thus, relieving the government of a significant amount of responsibility...and the tax breaks are their reward for committing the time, money and effort required to accomplish those tasks...generally, the goverment only gives these kinds of tax breaks where they see that there is a need or where an initiative has been established (e.g., energy efficiency, carbon reduction, energy independence, etc.)...if we eliminate those tax breaks then it will wind up being the government's responsibility to do all the research and development, and that would catastrophic.

At GE (former GE'er here), we would have breakthroughs in our "tax technology", particularly during slow quarters. Here were the basic principles:

1) Use the latest-and-greatest global accounting techniques. Recognize income in the most favorable countries possible (since we had a presence everywhere, it wasn't difficult).

2) Take as many tax credits as possible. Usually these were niche benefits, ranging anywhere from environmental remediation (enviro-whacko credits),to "cleaner" jet engines to historical preservation credits.

3) Lobby for as many specific benefits as possible. The legislative magic was by far the least understood by me. I believe they just attached very specific riders to existing bills which in some cases, weren't related to the bill at all. I honestly don't know much about these.

4) Subsidies! The GE Power guys were jedi masters at this one. We (Medical Systems) got some for electronic health records, but GE Wind showed us how it's done in the big leagues.

5) Depreciation and amortization technology. We'd buy ~140 companies a year, and the accounting for those deals was pure black magic.

I was long gone before this last recession hit, but I believe the GE Capital guys got some massive bailout money too. GE is less reliant on Capital's performance than it used to be, but back in the day (~2000), GE Capital ruled the company.

 

[mrplunkey]

i don't know the exact facts and circumstances of general electric's tax returns but, generally speaking, businesses large and small get big tax breaks for (among other things) spending large sums of money on research and development of products, processes, etc. that are aimed at making our lives easier, safer, cleaner, more energy efficient, etc...thus, relieving the government of a significant amount of responsibility...and the tax breaks are their reward for committing the time, money and effort required to accomplish those tasks...generally, the goverment only gives these kinds of tax breaks where they see that there is a need or where an initiative has been established (e.g., energy efficiency, carbon reduction, energy independence, etc.)...if we eliminate those tax breaks then it will wind up being the government's responsibility to do all the research and development, and that would catastrophic.

Let's allow businesses to expense 100% of R&D for tax purposes against the current year (or amortize it as they want to), even if FASB requires them to capitalize the investment over its useful life.

 

[digimon7068]

At GE (former GE'er here), we would have breakthroughs in our "tax technology", particularly during slow quarters. Here were the basic principles:

1) Use the latest-and-greatest global accounting techniques. Recognize income in the most favorable countries possible (since we had a presence everywhere, it wasn't difficult).

2) Take as many tax credits as possible. Usually these were niche benefits, ranging anywhere from environmental remediation (enviro-whacko credits),to "cleaner" jet engines to historical preservation credits.

3) Lobby for as many specific benefits as possible. The legislative magic was by far the least understood by me. I believe they just attached very specific riders to existing bills which in some cases, weren't related to the bill at all. I honestly don't know much about these.

4) Subsidies! The GE Power guys were jedi masters at this one. We (Medical Systems) got some for electronic health records, but GE Wind showed us how it's done in the big leagues.

5) Depreciation and amortization technology. We'd buy ~140 companies a year, and the accounting for those deals was pure black magic.

I was long gone before this last recession hit, but I believe the GE Capital guys got some massive bailout money too. GE is less reliant on Capital's performance than it used to be, but back in the day (~2000), GE Capital ruled the company.

and, the government (irs's) job is to audit companies and make sure that they are not abusing the tax code

 

[mrplunkey]

and, the government (irs's) job is to audit companies and make sure that they are not abusing the tax code

I get this weird feeling that GE isn't going to get audited by the Obama administration.

 

[robbiek426]

All this bullshit. We could all fix the problem if we didnt conform to party politics, at least not two party politics. I was an independant in the last election and have since found the libertarian party. I just want to be left alone by the fucking government. I am a big boy, I can handle my own shit. If someone else cant then fuck them, they need to grow up.

 

[Mr. dB]

Moneybrawl - The Extinction of Subway, Bill O'Reilly & the Super Rich - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 09/21/11 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

 

[mrplunkey]

Moneybrawl - The Extinction of Subway, Bill O'Reilly & the Super Rich - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 09/21/11 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

We should archive clips from the Daily Show to use as a means of comfort to people dependent on Social Security and Medicare when they go belly-up. Or do you think they won't be as funny then?

 

[Smokescreen]

Obama is absolutely the worst president we have ever had. He has done nothing but double the National debt, since he took office. Instead of cutting jobs and ditching programs that are not working such as the USPS our government just writes checks that no one will cash anymore to cover the debt.

Yeah but black people think he's the best shit since sliced bread. Black president my ass. He's only HALF black! What we need is someone REALLY black! Like Wesley Snipes black! LOL

 

[brownbrown]

If it's on income that's already been taxed, then a 25% (or 20% or 15%) double tax is insanely too high. We need to dispense with the ridiculous concept of taxing something that's already been taxed.

Um Like making a paycheck getting taxed with income tax and Federal taxes, then you get your money. Then you buy at the store and get taxed on the item you bought. then you sell what you bought and getting taxed on the income from said product again?

Your seeing opaque. And your arguement is invalid. People get double taxed on all the time. And so does the poor. But they dont get write-offs and loophooles to evade those taxes.
The concept of Taxing something that has already been taxed has been around since before all of us were around. But now it's so horrible? Taxes for the rich are the lowest they've been in a Generation. Cry your aligator tears to someone who doesnt know better.
Since the Rich have been getting lower taxes America has been progressivly suffering. The economic right here and now is not the result of politics from right here or now. It has been steady dismantling since the 50's.

 

[javaguru]

People could have poured their money into Australian or Swiss debt. Remember how an S&P downgrade would make Treasury rates shoot up to 10%?

Despite the rhetoric, were still the wealthiest country in the world and the safest bet in town. The bond market tells no lies.

Being the tallest dwarf doesn't make you a giant.....

 

[Mr. dB]

We should archive clips from the Daily Show to use as a means of comfort to people dependent on Social Security and Medicare when they go belly-up. Or do you think they won't be as funny then?

Gee, isn't Rick Perry gonna dismantle all those things as soon as he's sworn in in 2013?

 

[javaguru]

Gee, isn't Rick Perry gonna dismantle all those things as soon as he's sworn in in 2013?

Just like Obama immediately passed a one payer system for health care with one of the largest majorities in modern history? The POTUS can veto legislation... is the commander in chief and that's the power that was imagined under the Constitution.

The POTUS is the biggest target in politics and generally the least responsible for the economic condition until they start issuing executive orders and don't reign in their agencies, Nancy played Obama with the health care bill....it's all her and has Obama's name. The economic crisis isn't Bush's or Obama's fault...it's a failure of the political system to acknowledge basic economic principles while attempting to engineer the economy.

 

[mrplunkey]

Um Like making a paycheck getting taxed with income tax and Federal taxes, then you get your money. Then you buy at the store and get taxed on the item you bought. then you sell what you bought and getting taxed on the income from said product again?

Your seeing opaque. And your arguement is invalid. People get double taxed on all the time. And so does the poor. But they dont get write-offs and loophooles to evade those taxes.
The concept of Taxing something that has already been taxed has been around since before all of us were around. But now it's so horrible? Taxes for the rich are the lowest they've been in a Generation. Cry your aligator tears to someone who doesnt know better.
Since the Rich have been getting lower taxes America has been progressivly suffering. The economic right here and now is not the result of politics from right here or now. It has been steady dismantling since the 50's.

I can't help it if you don't understand the difference between income taxes and sales taxes. You'll have to figure that one out on your own.

And keep clinging to the rhetoric about how good the "rich" have it. They're voting with their capital right now, and that capital sure isn't going toward American jobs and American production.

 

[mrplunkey]

Gee, isn't Rick Perry gonna dismantle all those things as soon as he's sworn in in 2013?

I sure hope not. These schemes need to stay around another 5-7 years so we can watch them explode. If some mean-spirited conservative fixes them beforehand, we'll lose the opportunity for an object lesson.

Besides, you seem to like the Daily Show. Be happy!

 

[ledhead]

I can't help it if you don't understand the difference between income taxes and sales taxes. You'll have to figure that one out on your own.

And keep clinging to the rhetoric about how good the "rich" have it. They're voting with their capital right now, and that capital sure isn't going toward American jobs and American production.

Lol.. He doesn't understand the difference. You gotta love the learned behavior. Nevermind, that people went to college for 6-10 years and sacrificed and earned what they have. While others sat on their ass waiting for a hand out. Nevermind, successful people take the risks with their own money and create jobs. Just tax them to death and give their hard earned money to a bunch of parasitic, slothful slugs..

You have to love how some people are hooked on the opium of entitlements...

Lesson for today.

What is the difference from an excise tax and a payroll tax?

 

[Spartacus]

all these pages for the obama clown
opportunity for you
like once ina lifetime
interest rates to piss on

 

[Spartacus]

 

[Spartacus]

fools are borne every day
many

 

[Spartacus]

I don't take their money
but you can
I get my income from the top 2 percent worldwide

 

[Spartacus]

Now I`m fully grown
And I know where it`s at
Somehow I stayed thin
While the other guys got fat
All the chances that are blown
And the times that I`ve been down
I didn`t get too high
Kept my feet on the ground

 

[Spartacus]

mr james would have won a championship in cleveland
never in miami
it's a misdirect

 

[digimon7068]

Um Like making a paycheck getting taxed with income tax and Federal taxes, then you get your money. Then you buy at the store and get taxed on the item you bought. then you sell what you bought and getting taxed on the income from said product again?

Your seeing opaque. And your arguement is invalid. People get double taxed on all the time. And so does the poor. But they dont get write-offs and loophooles to evade those taxes.
The concept of Taxing something that has already been taxed has been around since before all of us were around. But now it's so horrible? Taxes for the rich are the lowest they've been in a Generation. Cry your aligator tears to someone who doesnt know better.
Since the Rich have been getting lower taxes America has been progressivly suffering. The economic right here and now is not the result of politics from right here or now. It has been steady dismantling since the 50's.

all 50 states have a sale-for-resale exemption on sales tax...fyi.

 

[mrplunkey]

all 50 states have a sale-for-resale exemption on sales tax...fyi.

I thought about trying to explain that to him, but I'm betting that if it's not on MSNBC, he's not going to pay attention anyway.

 

[brownbrown]

all 50 states have a sale-for-resale exemption on sales tax...fyi.

Out of that Whole post all that was touched upon was a mis-speak? I meant the Item was re-taxed.
Thats why I rarely post in here. When valid points are expressed, The response neglects/avoids addressing the points they cant factualy disagree with, it's about a typo or mistake in one sentence, or it reverts to name calling and assumptions on what someones political views are to attempt to insult them.

 

[youpissmeoff]

Out of that Whole post all that was touched upon was a mis-speak? I meant the Item was re-taxed.
Thats why I rarely post in here. When valid points are expressed, The response neglects/avoids addressing the points they cant factualy disagree with, it's about a typo or mistake in one sentence, or it reverts to name calling and assumptions on what someones political views are to attempt to insult them.

O'rly

 

[brownbrown]

O'rly

I'm talking about the Politics subjects dumbass alter.

 

[brownbrown]

O'rly

BTW nice Screen Shot from your IPAD 1 MiPlank.

 

[digimon7068]

Out of that Whole post all that was touched upon was a mis-speak? I meant the Item was re-taxed.
Thats why I rarely post in here. When valid points are expressed, The response neglects/avoids addressing the points they cant factualy disagree with, it's about a typo or mistake in one sentence, or it reverts to name calling and assumptions on what someones political views are to attempt to insult them.

well...no...it was just the only thing that i noticed that i felt was "wrong" with the post and was something that is a common misconception among people that don't sit around thinking about tax shit all the time...like i do...i like to add wisdom to subjects that i actually know something about rather than merely adding conjecture to subjects that i don't know much about...that said, i'm not above conjecture

 

[digimon7068]

well...no...it was just the only thing that i noticed that is a common misconception among people that don't sit around thinking about tax shit all the time...like i do...i like to add wisdom to subjects that i actually know something about rather than merely adding conjecture to subjects that i don't know much about...that said, i'm not above conjecture

oh and, when i find a typo, i usually preceed it with a * like that smartass mitch...i think it's kinda funny.

 

[redsamurai]

1) Don't fault businesspeople for taking advantage of loopholes created by corrupt politicians. If you want less corruption, then make government smaller.

Umm, no...I can and will fault people who take advantage of tax loopholes then tell us with a straight face they just can't create any jobs here cause they're getting taxed too high. What kind of ngr logic is that?


QUOTE]

..

 

[mrplunkey]

If only we could drag those people out into the streets and shoot them. I bet that would get capital flowing back into the US in no time!

 

[Mr. dB]

If only we could drag those people out into the streets and shoot them. I bet that would get capital flowing back into the US in no time!

So what we should do instead is to kowtow to their every whim?

 

[mrplunkey]

So what we should do instead is to kowtow to their every whim?

Right out of the gate, I'd start by not vilifying them with class warfare rhetoric. Even if I were going to screw-over the so-called "rich", the last thing I'd do is what that idiot Obama does and telegraph my punch simply to appease my base. Even GW Bush was smarter than that.

I guess that makes me a marketing genius.

Second, let's have an epiphany: There are plenty of markets outside the US that have less regulation AND lower tax rates. So if you are going to pass hundreds of billions in more regulation (i.e. ObamaCare), then you'll have to give it back on the tax side. Similarly, if you are going to preach over raising taxes, you better be ready to massively deregulate.

This really isn't that hard to figure out. If we want people making big bets on the US, the US needs to be more attractive. It's unbelievably cynical to me to watch Obama destroy millions of jobs, then reach out to the people he's ruined (the middle and lower class) as their savior. That's as screwed-up as a doctor offering a patient a vial of poison as a cure.

 

[cindylou]

BTW nice Screen Shot from your IPAD 1 MiPlank.

nope lol

 

[ledhead]

Right out of the gate, I'd start by not vilifying them with class warfare rhetoric. Even if I were going to screw-over the so-called "rich", the last thing I'd do is what that idiot Obama does and telegraph my punch simply to appease my base. Even GW Bush was smarter than that.

I guess that makes me a marketing genius.

Second, let's have an epiphany: There are plenty of markets outside the US that have less regulation AND lower tax rates. So if you are going to pass hundreds of billions in more regulation (i.e. ObamaCare), then you'll have to give it back on the tax side. Similarly, if you are going to preach over raising taxes, you better be ready to massively deregulate.

This really isn't that hard to figure out. If we want people making big bets on the US, the US needs to be more attractive. It's unbelievably cynical to me to watch Obama destroy millions of jobs, then reach out to the people he's ruined (the middle and lower class) as their savior. That's as screwed-up as a doctor offering a patient a vial of poison as a cure.

Obama is a student of Sal Alinsky. Alinsky wrote numerous books on class warfare and socialism. Alinsky was a community organizer, does that sound familar? In his one book he goes into detail about focusing on the middle class because they are the "silent majority." If you can win the middle class, you win America over to socialism.

This is a communist conspiracy...

Every dollar of government spending must be raised through a dollar of taxation.

The "soak the rich" tactics did not work in the 1930's.

The only thing that works to stimulate the economy is "supply-side economics," the idea of cutting taxes to stimulate investment. Also, lift regulations, repeal the Sarbanes-Oxley law, and end speculation. Taxes might be low right now, but that does not mean a thing with heavy regulation and speculating, and outrageous gov. spending. Nobody is going to invest and take risks with this guy in office becaue he is unpredictable.. Obama is too erratic with his policies, and he vacillates a lot. Therefore, that spooks the hell out of big businesses and the private sector, so they hoard their money.

The poor get entitlements, the rich hoard their money and the middle class get fucked...

A good study on how to stimulate the economy: Calvin Coolidge and Ronald Reagan economic policies, their records speak for themselves..

 

[PICK3]

72,000 Stimulus Payments Went to Dead People

Watchdog: Gov't paid $600 million to dead people - CBS News

 

[jnevin]

Yeah but black people think he's the best shit since sliced bread. Black president my ass. He's only HALF black! What we need is someone REALLY black! Like Wesley Snipes black! LOL

Our credit rating already dipped. We don't need it to plummet.

 

[Mr. dB]

Right out of the gate, I'd start by not vilifying them with class warfare rhetoric.

Why? Is Santa Claus gonna put my name on the wrong list if I say the wrong thing?

LOL @ the lie of "class warfare".

 

[Mr. dB]

Second, let's have an epiphany: There are plenty of markets outside the US that have less regulation AND lower tax rates.

How many of them are outside the Pacific Rim? Not developing nations or city-states?

 

[Mr. dB]

Right out of the gate, I'd start by not vilifying them with class warfare rhetoric. Even if I were going to screw-over the so-called "rich"...

Practice what you preach. Physician heal thyself.

 

[Mr. dB]

Obama is a student of Sal Alinsky. Alinsky wrote numerous books on class warfare and socialism. Alinsky was a community organizer, does that sound familar? In his one book he goes into detail about focusing on the middle class because they are the "silent majority." If you can win the middle class, you win America over to socialism.

This is a communist conspiracy...

Every dollar of government spending must be raised through a dollar of taxation.

The "soak the rich" tactics did not work in the 1930's.

The only thing that works to stimulate the economy is "supply-side economics," the idea of cutting taxes to stimulate investment. Also, lift regulations, repeal the Sarbanes-Oxley law, and end speculation. Taxes might be low right now, but that does not mean a thing with heavy regulation and speculating, and outrageous gov. spending. Nobody is going to invest and take risks with this guy in office becaue he is unpredictable.. Obama is too erratic with his policies, and he vacillates a lot. Therefore, that spooks the hell out of big businesses and the private sector, so they hoard their money.

The poor get entitlements, the rich hoard their money and the middle class get fucked...

A good study on how to stimulate the economy: Calvin Coolidge and Ronald Reagan economic policies, their records speak for themselves..

You wouldn't know a socialist or a communist if it bit you on the ass. If you think Alinsky was a socialist, for example, you've been getting your information from some weird sources.

Supply-side economics is a scam.

Would you be happy to return tax rates to what they were during the Reagan Presidency?

 

[javaguru]

You wouldn't know a socialist or a communist if it bit you on the ass. If you think Alinsky was a socialist, for example, you've been getting your information from some weird sources.

Supply-side economics is a scam.

Would you be happy to return tax rates to what they were during the Reagan Presidency?

How has Keynesian economics faired over the past century when it comes to results?

The United States is facing a real double dip because Keynesian economics is just giving crack to a crackhead to delay the inevitable withdrawal. As a matter of fact, China is facing the same predicament, the invincible 800 pound gorilla in the room, can't continue to pump government money to support a system that needs to correct.

 

[mrplunkey]

Why? Is Santa Claus gonna put my name on the wrong list if I say the wrong thing?

LOL @ the lie of "class warfare".

Cool. Then let's just stick with the status quo.

Perhaps we can re-elect Barry for another four years and go for 15% unemployment. At this point, the US may serve best as an object lesson to future capitalistic societies.

Yes we can!

 

[PICK3]

Cool. Then let's just stick with the status quo.

Perhaps we can re-elect Barry for another four years and go for 15% unemployment. At this point, the US may serve best as an object lesson to future capitalistic societies.

Yes we can!

^^^
you said we were headed there irregardless of who's elected next

 

[mrplunkey]

^^^
you said we were headed there irregardless of who's elected next

I suspect we are. A mean-spirited conservative may slow it down by 4-8 years, but I think we're going to hit a wall either way.

I'm kinda pulling for Barry. If we give him four more years, he won't have any re-election constraints and he can take us off the cliff with style.

 

[Mr. dB]

How has Keynesian economics faired over the past century when it comes to results?

The United States is facing a real double dip because Keynesian economics is just giving crack to a crackhead to delay the inevitable withdrawal. As a matter of fact, China is facing the same predicament, the invincible 800 pound gorilla in the room, can't continue to pump government money to support a system that needs to correct.

And this differentiates between any of the present Presidential hopefuls and incumbent how? Paul is the only one with the nerve or the Libertarian zeal to jump off the Keynsian ship.

 

[mrplunkey]

And this differentiates between any of the present Presidential hopefuls and incumbent how? Paul is the only one with the nerve or the Libertarian zeal to jump off the Keynsian ship.

Ron Paul (who I really like) won't succeed because voters just don't get into esoteric economic arguments.

What voters would understand is the need to starve a wasteful, value-destroying government of money. If all politicians ran on cutting taxes, it would ultimately drive the downsizing of government.

 

[digimon7068]

Ron Paul (who I really like) won't succeed because voters just don't get into esoteric economic arguments.

What voters would understand is the need to starve a wasteful, value-destroying government of money. If all politicians ran on cutting taxes, it would ultimately drive the downsizing of government.

i really need to sit down and peruse the federal budget someday...i really can't make any sort of intelligent argument for or against "downsizing"...everytime i think of downsizing, i think about our military, and i am certain that i am not in favor of downsizing our military budget...i think we need to encourage more people to do their time, train harder and build more planes and bombs and tanks, etc.

 

[redsamurai]

and i am certain that i am not in favor of downsizing our military budget...i think we need to encourage more people to do their time, train harder and build more planes and bombs and tanks, etc.

why are you not in favor of downsizing our military? It's a gigantic money hole, at least social security keeps people buying stuff in the economy. We get nothing for our investment in the military. Zip, nada....it's all ego. We have the biggest guns in the world...so what? means nothing.

 

[digimon7068]

why are you not in favor of downsizing our military? It's a gigantic money hole, at least social security keeps people buying stuff in the economy. We get nothing for our investment in the military. Zip, nada....it's all ego. We have the biggest guns in the world...so what? means nothing.

theodore roosevelt, a very progressive republican, said speak softly and carry a big stick...those words have never rang more true than they do today.

 

[mrplunkey]

why are you not in favor of downsizing our military? It's a gigantic money hole, at least social security keeps people buying stuff in the economy. We get nothing for our investment in the military. Zip, nada....it's all ego. We have the biggest guns in the world...so what? means nothing.

I'm all for dramatically reducing military expense (because broke is broke), but that's a spectacularly bad argument. Military expenditures still go to soldiers, suppliers and technology providers.

I seriously doubt Ma and Pa Kettle perusing Walmart for today's under $10 items fresh-off-the-boat from China is any more or less beneficial to the economy than the military dumping a bunch of cash on a new communications satellite.

 

[digimon7068]

I'm all for dramatically reducing military expense (because broke is broke), but that's a spectacularly bad argument. Military expenditures still go to soldiers, suppliers and technology providers.

I seriously doubt Ma and Pa Kettle perusing Walmart for today's under $10 items fresh-off-the-boat from China is any more or less beneficial to the economy than the military dumping a bunch of cash on a new communications satellite.

during the first gulf war, my uncles MAILED my cousin extra .223 rounds for his rifle because they (the army, in his case) didn't give the soldiers enough...i think someone also sent extra body armor because they didn't hand out enough of that either...call that what you want but i call it bullshit.

 

[PICK3]

Totw!

 

[digimon7068]

and...clinton cut military and intelligence spending (but kept firing tomahawks at the bees nest) and paved the road for september 11th.

 

[mrplunkey]

during the first gulf war, my uncles MAILED my cousin extra .223 rounds for his rifle because they (the army, in his case) didn't give the soldiers enough...i think someone also sent extra body armor because they didn't hand out enough of that either...call that what you want but i call it bullshit.

The troops in theater need the best an most of everything.

My savings would come from fewer engagements, fewer bases and making countries actually pay for our military services.

I would have priced Kuwait at at least half a trillion dollars. I can't help but think Saudi Arabia & Co could have found the financing.

 

[Spartacus]

Totw!

 

[Spartacus]

if they move
tax them

 

[Mr. dB]

The troops in theater need the best an most of everything.

My savings would come from fewer engagements, fewer bases and making countries actually pay for our military services.

I would have priced Kuwait at at least half a trillion dollars. I can't help but think Saudi Arabia & Co could have found the financing.

This is a good idea.

 

[Mr. dB]

Military expenditures still go to soldiers, suppliers and technology providers.

So you do think that pump-priming the economy with government dollars is good, as long as it's going to programs that you approve of...

 

[digimon7068]

The troops in theater need the best an most of everything.

My savings would come from fewer engagements, fewer bases and making countries actually pay for our military services.

I would have priced Kuwait at at least half a trillion dollars. I can't help but think Saudi Arabia & Co could have found the financing.

i got no problem with mercenary actions, i s'pose.

 

[brownbrown]

why are you not in favor of downsizing our military? It's a gigantic money hole, at least social security keeps people buying stuff in the economy. We get nothing for our investment in the military. Zip, nada....it's all ego. We have the biggest guns in the world...so what? means nothing.

Military Towns drive a large portion of our Economy. And when they Downsize the Military what do you think they will downsize? The Billion Dollar contracts with XE or Boeing? Do you think the top brass will stop ordering Oak desks in the Pentagon? Do you think they willl scrap new projects?
I can answer this for you. NO. They will kickout the any rank Enlisted and Junior officers. Right now the Air Force, Navy , Marines are kicking out 12-18 year enlisted by inventing new "Boards" to say they cant stay in for various obscure reasons. Tens of thousands are on the Chopping Block. Why? Because they aren't willing to give up those million/billion dollar ideas to keep the experienced senior enlisted in. But they till want to say they are "downsizing".
You say the military is nothing but a money hole? Can you protect our borders and sea lanes?
You show me a successful country that had no military......

 

[brownbrown]

during the first gulf war, my uncles MAILED my cousin extra .223 rounds for his rifle because they (the army, in his case) didn't give the soldiers enough...i think someone also sent extra body armor because they didn't hand out enough of that either...call that what you want but i call it bullshit.

Still happening Digi.

 

[Spartacus]

you think anyone in this manure pile could keep thier mouth shut?

 

[brownbrown]

you think anyone in this manure pile could keep thier mouth shut?

Not the point of an open forum.

 

[ledhead]

You wouldn't know a socialist or a communist if it bit you on the ass. If you think Alinsky was a socialist, for example, you've been getting your information from some weird sources.

Supply-side economics is a scam.

Would you be happy to return tax rates to what they were during the Reagan Presidency?

Lol@ you making erroneous assumptions without any evidence. I wish for once you would expound on your statements.

No, I do not think Alinsky was Socialist, I think he was a Marxist, but anyone who knows what they are talking about knows there is no difference between a Socialist and a Marxist ideaology speaking except some Communist countries had vanguard states.

Well, what is Socialism aka Communism? You seem to not know the defintion, so I will give you the correct definition. I will make it real simple so you understand.

The state controls everything and homogenizes all commodities to its people... It was/is a complete failure.. I might add..

Alinsky: Rules for Radicals, he admits he was a Marxist community organizer. He attempted to promote Communism through the proletariant, that is "working class" in Socialist terms, and "middle class" in Capitalist terms.

Check out: The Communist Confession of faith, and compare it to Alinsky's Rules for Radicals, you might be a little frazzled after you compare them.

Before I go any further, explain to me what you mean by supply-side economics is a scam.

 

[Spartacus]

herman cain wiped their ass in the florida (key state)
I told you so
I have something to do now

 

[Mr. dB]

Before I go any further, explain to me what you mean by supply-side economics is a scam.

The ruin of Reaganomics | Cover Stories | Arkansas news, politics, opinion, restaurants, music, movies and art

 

[Mr. dB]

No, I do not think Alinsky was Socialist, I think he was a Marxist...

Seems to me that Alinsky wasn't too hung up on ideology, and more interested in methodology and tactics. I'm pretty sure he's on record as finding Marxism and Communism fatally flawed.

 

[ledhead]

The ruin of Reaganomics | Cover Stories | Arkansas news, politics, opinion, restaurants, music, movies and art

Garbage article, total commie propaganda. Nothing but a secondary source. Produce a primary source (gov doc with stats).. I will give you evidence on how the 20's and the 80's were the most prosperous decades in the U.S. history.. due to supply-side of economics.

Show real historical government stats from the 80's. Ie. Real income, inflation, tax brackets, charatable donations, real GDP, unemployment rate. I have the stats from the 20's and the 80's but I want you to disclose them with a primary gov. document...

If you want the link let me know.

 

[miplank]

Why don't you post your gov documented stats?

 

[75th]

lmao

 

[digimon7068]

Still happening Digi.

unfortunately for most, they don't have an uncle who was george dubya's tennis doubles partner for 10 years like my cousin had...if you know the right people you can put lots of unusual shit in the mail.

 

[ledhead]

The ruin of Reaganomics | Cover Stories | Arkansas news, politics, opinion, restaurants, music, movies and art

Supply-Side Tax Cuts and the Truth about the Reagan Economic Record | William A. Niskanen and Stephen Moore | Cato Institute: Policy Analysis

http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&130922&start=100

Center for Business & Public Policy

Here you go Mr. DB, there are charts and graphs from the U.S. Department of Labor: Bureau of Labor statistics. These would be called primary sources (govermnment documents).

Try to refute the awesomeness of Reagan with some real sources, not someone's bias opinion.

 

[miplank]

Supply-Side Tax Cuts and the Truth about the Reagan Economic Record | William A. Niskanen and Stephen Moore | Cato Institute: Policy Analysis

http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&130922&start=100

Center for Business & Public Policy

Here you go Mr. DB, there are charts and graphs from the U.S. Department of Labor: Bureau of Labor statistics. These would be called primary sources (govermnment documents).

Try to refute the awesomeness of Reagan with some real sources, not someone's bias opinion.

I saw no government docs.

One was a privately funded research website, one link didnt work, and the last was something about google Netflix etc.

 

[mrplunkey]

Reagan was an entrepreneurial-friendly president. That's when we got our breaks.

I will say this about Barry. He's the best thing that's happened to incumbent medical device manufacturers.

See this chart?

Probably 1/2 of those letters killed startup medical device companies. And too many companies in the market can drive prices too low.

 

[miplank]

 

[75th]

I saw no government docs.

One was a privately funded research website, one link didnt work, and the last was something about google Netflix etc.

lol, and lmao @ cato. May as well have db post a study from moveon.org.

 

[miplank]

Lolololololololo

 

[Mr. dB]

Try to refute the awesomeness of Reagan with some real sources, not someone's bias opinion.

Cato Institute constitutes a non-biased source???

Other two links don't go anywhere.

BTW, Reagan was a classic Keynsian who spent his way into prosperity. In the Cato article, the one section where the pretty graphs are not displayed prominently is deficit spending. Also, while he lowered the top tax rate, he raised taxes on the majority of Americans. And Reagan's deregulation of the financial sector led directly to the 2008 crash.

 

[digimon7068]

Cato Institute constitutes a non-biased source???

Other two links don't go anywhere.

BTW, Reagan was a classic Keynsian who spent his way into prosperity. In the Cato article, the one section where the pretty graphs are not displayed prominently is deficit spending. Also, while he lowered the top tax rate, he raised taxes on the majority of Americans. And Reagan's deregulation of the financial sector led directly to the 2008 crash.

be fair...lets not forget slick willy's no-doc loans which sent housing prices through the roof to a completely unsustainable place.

 

[mrplunkey]

Cato Institute constitutes a non-biased source???

Other two links don't go anywhere.

BTW, Reagan was a classic Keynsian who spent his way into prosperity. In the Cato article, the one section where the pretty graphs are not displayed prominently is deficit spending. Also, while he lowered the top tax rate, he raised taxes on the majority of Americans. And Reagan's deregulation of the financial sector led directly to the 2008 crash.

Partisan bickering aside, do you believe those terrible loans would have been made if Fannie and Freddie weren't there to scoop them up?

 

[Mr. dB]

Reagan was an entrepreneurial-friendly president. That's when we got our breaks.

I will say this about Barry. He's the best thing that's happened to incumbent medical device manufacturers.

See this chart?

Probably 1/2 of those letters killed startup medical device companies. And too many companies in the market can drive prices too low.

Seems to me that the upturn in the graph starts a year before Obama was sworn in. One wonders what Bush policy caused this?

 

[mrplunkey]

Seems to me that the upturn in the graph starts a year before Obama was sworn in. One wonders what Bush policy caused this?

But, more importantly, one must first wonder where you learned to read a chart.

 

[Mr. dB]

I have no idea what "DDMAC Warning and Untitled Letters" might be. Perhaps some of the startups were blocked because they weren't qualified?

 

[mrplunkey]

I have no idea what "DDMAC Warning and Untitled Letters" might be. Perhaps some of the startups were blocked because they weren't qualified?

They are warning letters issued by the FDA that kick-off very expensive processes that companies must execute. Big companies have their own in-house staff, and smaller companies hire specialty law firms (typically staffed with ex-FDA'ers) for $375-$600 per hour.

 

[Mr. dB]

But, more importantly, one must first wonder where you learned to read a chart.

The 3D chart does have some parallax.

If the end of the graph is 2010, and there's a kink for every year, then the upward trend begins in 2007 and gets steep in 2008. The final kink separates 2009 from 2010.

 

[mrplunkey]

2007 is a local minimum.

2008 is a tiny (within the noise) increase.

2009 in a huge increase over 2008

2010 is a huge increase over 2009

 

[redsamurai]

BTW, Reagan was a classic Keynsian who spent his way into prosperity. .

This^^^^^

the monkeys don't get it do they?

 

[Mr. dB]

This^^^^^

the monkeys don't get it do they?

They brag about it -- "he drove the Soviets to ruin by outspending them".

 

[mrplunkey]

I like the ones who don't understand what government should do (i.e. defense) versus what the government shouldn't do (i.e. social engineering).

But it's a moot point now, because broke is broke. We can't afford to do either.

 

[-SD-]

I wish we could defeat more world superpowers by just spending money without firing a shot. Sounds like a helluva bargain