Need Advice on the Routine

[krk]

I'm trying to put together a routine and welcome any help. I been back in the gym the last two months after a long layoff, using the outdated one muscle group a day routine. Although I have seen some strength and mass gains, I would like to switch it up. I figured four days a week is probably the most realistic for me so I'm going with a push/pull set up. My long term goal is to put on good mass, although it will be better for me to get there in the long term by adding some good strength short term. Not real sure if they set up I have below contains enough work.

Monday
• Deadlift 5x5
• Leg Press 3x6-8 (this will be replaced by squats when the shoulder permits, alternating heavy/light with deads)
• Row 5x5
• Calf Raises 3x6-8
• Bicep Curling Exercise 3x6-8 (will switch frequently)


Tuesday
• DB Bench Press 5x5
• Shoulder Press Machine 5x5 (will be replaced with standing military press when shoulder permits)
• Dips Parellel Bars 3x8
• Triceps pushdown 3x6-8
• Lateral raises 3x6-8
• 2 Ab excercises (switching frequently)


Thursday
Same as Monday except alternate deadlifts and squats, and replace rows with pull ups.


Friday
Same as Tuesday except replace bench press with incline.

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

Looks like a good start to me. I have found over the last few months that push day before pull day is more practical. If I wear my lats the day before bench, my numbers suffer. If I wear out my bench the day before pulling, nothing is affected.


I would say perform rows and pullups every time you pull. You will progress faster at a lift if you practice twice a week or more. As far as rotating DL and squat, I would stick to one for a while or the other. You could also stick squats on push day and just alternate intensity as you see fit. Once you get into the groove you can adjust your intensity and add volume with some ancillary work.

 

[BigboyAl]

i like except you might want to change rep schemes on each day.. 3-4 weeks do heavy 5x5 on mon & tues then switch to 5x10 the next 3-4 weeks on mon and tues while changeding thurs and sat from 5x10 to 5x5..example

MON TUES THURS SAT
Week 1 5x5 5x5 5x10 5x10
Week 2 same as w1
Week 3 same as w1
Week 4 5x10 5x10 5x5 5x5
Week 5 same as w4
Week 6 same as w4

This keep each group strong and with out lossing muscle.. the 5x10 gets you ready to grow when you switch back to 5x5. You cant do 5x5 forever. Trust me.
PS. you wont need as much accessory work with lots of sets like 5x10..

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

He is just coming back into a real routine, I bet he has months ahead of him before he even starts to stall in most of his lifts (assuming the proper diet). Switching it up as much as you outline would most certainly stall strength progression, and delay recovery times from rediculous 5x10 squat and DL sessions. Strength is about moving big weight.


But look at it this way, he would never have to worry about reaching a plateau switching up rep routines so much

 

[krk]

Oh, by the way... if you couldn't tell by my original post, I have a shoulder injury which limits some of what I can do. More of a flexibility/range of motion kind of thing. Only thing it really hurts directly is military press, indirectly it hurts squating as i can't rotate my one arm enough to stabilize the bar. Front Squats have just never felt right to me.

Thanks for the responses so far. I plan on staying on this routine (once I get some feedback and make tweeks) for 8 weeks or so before changing up again. I get bored easily if I don't change.

 

[BigboyAl]

He is just coming back into a real routine, I bet he has months ahead of him before he even starts to stall in most of his lifts (assuming the proper diet). Switching it up as much as you outline would most certainly stall strength progression, and delay recovery times from rediculous 5x10 squat and DL sessions. Strength is about moving big weight.


But look at it this way, he would never have to worry about reaching a plateau switching up rep routines so much

if your just doing 5x5 for your 1st time you do have a few months of growth before you get stuck..
but your wrong that he wouldnt grow from it regardless.. He will be squating or Dling twice a week, The switch up will not hurt him only build badly needed muscle. If he squats 5x5 mon and dl's 5x10 thurs then switched 5x5 dl and 5x10 squat he will be stronger and bigger with out staling..

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

I dont see the connection between high rep work and getting stronger. That is like saying I can increase my 1rm bench without stalling by doing high rep work. Your "stalling" that you so fear is causing you to hop on a program that just delays strength gains to avoid stalling. I havent even mentioned size gains anywhere, nor his growth. He stated his goals were strength gains in the short term and mass over the long term (which come with strength gains). Nothing better than a plain old 5x5 for strength gain.

There is a reason that there is intermediate and advanced 5x5, any single factor routine will peter out after a while. When you start wildly fucking with weekly rep ranges you are only cheating yourself of consistent gains. Dual factor programs use work sets that are all close to each other, and the rise and fall of workload is over a period of 4-8 weeks depending on the schema.

Ive heard similar tripe spouted from PT's around here. "Vary your rep ranges enough and you will NEVER stall out!" I welcome stalling out, it means I have done a good job and my body is nearing its peak.

 

[mad dipz]

I dont see the connection between high rep work and getting stronger. That is like saying I can increase my 1rm bench without stalling by doing high rep work. Your "stalling" that you so fear is causing you to hop on a program that just delays strength gains to avoid stalling. I havent even mentioned size gains anywhere, nor his growth. He stated his goals were strength gains in the short term and mass over the long term (which come with strength gains). Nothing better than a plain old 5x5 for strength gain.

There is a reason that there is intermediate and advanced 5x5, any single factor routine will peter out after a while. When you start wildly fucking with weekly rep ranges you are only cheating yourself of consistent gains. Dual factor programs use work sets that are all close to each other, and the rise and fall of workload is over a period of 4-8 weeks depending on the schema.

Ive heard similar tripe spouted from PT's around here. "Vary your rep ranges enough and you will NEVER stall out!" I welcome stalling out, it means I have done a good job and my body is nearing its peak.

^^^agreed. There's no need to mess with a program with unnecessary changes every week-- that doesn't sound like a plan to me, and will only stall progression faster because he's not getting better at these important lifts. Muscle gain will come along with strength overtime, and that means pushing and pulling big weights. Have a proper diet, keep the program the way it is, add weight weekly, and you're in for a brute beast in the long run.

 

[BigboyAl]

reps of 10 are not that high. there is a major connection between 10 reps and general strength gain, especially for natural lifters. if you know anything about the top natural bench presser in the world (Paul Bossi) you will see his routine focuses on 1 thing 10rep range to develop strength for the bench and he benches 500+ naturally in the 220weight class, also if you know anything about wsbb not just what you read for face value but how its truly implimented you would know that the major lifts are developed by getting stronger on the supplement lifts, and getting the muscles used for those lifts stronger.. your bench will fail, to keep it going you need to strength the triceps with tricep specific lifts, they do this by doing sets of 4-6 in the rep range of 8-10.
in my routine while your frying your bench in 5x5, 4 days later you are working for strength in the triceps doing dips or something related for 5 sets of 10. then you switch dips to 5x5 to maximize the work you put in in the 10rep range.. after a few weeks its back to flat bench again which was just stregnthed by 5x10.. its a great cycle that you will not get taxed on and completely stale.you will still need to deload but not as often..
all i can say is there are other routines besides 5x5 that work..get out of your elite fitness weight training forum and learn new shit!! 5x5 wasnt meant to be a year round routine it was for players in the off season.. with a few months to strengthen up.. 5x5 worked great for me , but nowadays i lose muscle mass because the volume is so low.

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

We arent talking world class lifters, we are talking about a routine for a person getting back into lifting. You seem to miss the entire point of that. HUGE difference. Im not disagreeing with you on anything except that your routine would wast krk's time.

Ancillary work is done in higher rep sets on the 5x5. I work my tri's and pecs directly with 12 rep sets AFTER hitting a heavy 5x5 bench and overhead press. Each week I add 5 pounds to the bar and my muscles get bigger. After a few months of this I will probably stall in bench and OHP. Then periodizing comes into play like on the WSB routines. I will have to find the weak points and address them through a rotating cycle of rep schemes and ancillary work. It isnt rocket science, it is just progressive loading.