My cycling method...

[BigAndy69]

This cycling approach is not very popular except with the “year round” crowd.

The goal is to keep most of the gains after and during a cycle. Basically, making the most out of your cycle.

To accomplish this, I split my bulking cycles in different phases. Phases don’t just consist of different steroids and dosages; they take into account workout intensity, workout volume, caloric intake, macronutrient breakdown...etc. It’s not a question of switching from bulk to cut; it’s much more complicated.

There are 2 major types of cycling

1- Cycling on/off
2- Staying on year round with off periods.

The two methods have there differences and similarities. The main difference is that year round cycling utilizes “cruise” periods, whereas traditional cycling has off periods

Now, personally, I like to come off steroids, so I don’t stay on year round.

Let’s get into every phase of my cycling approach:

-Phase 1- Loading Up

Duration: 6-8 weeks.
Steroid Dosage: Highest
Workout Volume: Highest
Workout Intensity: Highest
Caloric Intake: Highest
Carb intake: Highest

This is what most would call the bulk part of the cycle. Most gains are made the first 6-8 weeks in any cycle. Steroids doses are at there peak as well as food intake and workout intensity. Basically, this is the time to go all out for 6-8 weeks. It’s much easier to give it your all when you only have 6-8 weeks of hell as opposed to 12-16 weeks. It’s certainly not a pleasant time, everything is taken to the extreme.

In my case, here is what Phase 1 will look like for my next cycle:

Test Propionate: 350mg a week
Nandrolone PhenylProp: 700mg a week
Trenbolone Acetate: 260mg a week
Dbol: 15mg ED
Winny: 35mg ED

~1650mg a week
~5000 calories (minimum, I try to get 6000)

350g of Carbs
550g of Protein
150g of Fat


-Phase 2- Transition

Duration: 2 weeks.
Steroid Dosage: Moderate
Workout Volume: Moderate
Workout Intensity: High
Caloric Intake: Moderate
Carb intake: Moderate

This is a transition phase going from putting on as much LBM to maintaining as much LBM as possible. Carb intake goes down as workout volume decreases. This is not the time to add an extremely suppressive steroid like Trenbolone or Anadrol. Adding a strength drug with minimal impact on HPTA is helpful: therefore, Anavar is the most useful tool in this situation. The decrease is gradual and takes place over a 2 week period. Diet should be cleaner and more controlled.

Cycle:

Test Propionate: 350mg a week
Oxandrolone: 50mg ED

~700mg a week
~4000 calories

225g of Carbs
500g of Protein
100g of Fat

-Phase 3- Anavar Taper

Duration: 2 weeks.
Steroid Dosage: Low
Workout Volume: Low
Workout Intensity: Moderate
Caloric Intake: Moderate
Carb intake: Low

This is the last phase of the steroid part of the cycle. It consists of Anavar only. Anavar is expensive, but most people can afford Anavar at 25-40mg ED for 2-4 weeks. It can make the difference in how many lbs of LBM are maintained post cycle. 2 weeks is the minimum recommended duration for this phase, but it can be extended to 4 weeks depending on what steroids are still in circulation from the last phase. The last week consists of a down taper, starting at full dose and gradually going down to 15-25mg everyday.

Cycle:

Oxandrolone: 50mg ED

~350mg a week
~3500 calories

150g of Carbs
500g of Protein
100g of Fat

-Phase 4- Immediate PCT

Duration: 2 weeks.
Steroid Dosage: Zero
Workout Volume: Low
Workout Intensity: Moderate
Caloric Intake: Moderate
Carb intake: Moderate

This is the first post cycle therapy phase. Workout volume is considerably low, caloric intake is at maintenance. The goal is to keep strength levels up as much as possible to maintain LBM. Clenbuterol boosts strength and takes care of the immediate lethargy felt post cycle. HGC is not entirely necessary; clomid therapy can be introduced right away instead.

Drug Use:

Clenbuterol: 80-100mcg ED
HCG: 500iu ED
Nolvadex: 20mg ED

~3000 calories

150g of Carbs
400g of Protein
100g of Fat

-Phase 5- Clomid Therapy

Duration: 3 weeks.
Steroid Dosage: Zero
Workout Volume: Low
Workout Intensity: Moderate
Caloric Intake: Moderate
Carb intake: Moderate

Drug Use:

Clomid: 50-100mg ED
B-12: 1000mcg E3D

~3000 calories

150g of Carbs
400g of Protein
100g of Fat


So to recap:

-Phase 1: Loading Up

The mass gaining part of the cycle, AS use/Training/Caloric intake are at there heaviest for 6-8 weeks.

-Phase 2: Transition

Switching from gaining to maintaining, AS use/Training/Caloric intake is gradually reduced for 2 weeks.

-Phase 3: Anavar Taper

25-40mg of Anavar every day for 2 weeks makes for an easier recovery of the HPTA and a smoother steroid withdrawl.

-Post-Cycle therapy:

Phase 4 and 5

Clenbuterol is crucial right after a cycle for 2-3 weeks. HCG and /or Dbol bridge can be used, but it’s not necessary; clomid therapy can be introduced right way.

BigAndy69

 

[gilly6993]

excellent post......

 

[Livewire]

very very controversial way of doing things, but if it works..so be it.

Do you think that people who compete could benefit from this method?

If so please elaborate.

 

[satchboogie]

very interesting indeed.

 

[Darko]

if one was going to use longer acting esters for the base could one change it from 6-8wks to 8-10?

 

[psychedout]

Interesting. Thanks for posting that.

They really need to change how many people you have to spread karma around to. Otherwise i'd hit you up.

 

[BigAndy69]

very very controversial way of doing things, but if it works..so be it.

Do you think that people who compete could benefit from this method?

If so please elaborate.

Yes, many people I know use a similar method, but they are on year round.

They do 4-5 weeks heavy, 3-4 light (ie cruise), repeat.

Example:

W1-5: Dbol 80mg ED, Prop 200mg ED, EQ 400mg a week.

W6-9: EQ 400mg a week.

W10-14: Winny 100mg ED, NPP 150mg ED, EQ 400mg a week..etc

Similar to the method made popular by doggcrapp except mine is for people who want to come off and still cycle on/off.

 

[Judo Tom]

great post Karma your way bro.

I like the idea but i would probably not go as high during a loading phase and i dont really think i would have an intermediate phase and go right to a low dose recover cycle using either dbol or anavar to start the recovery and use nolva during it.. but i think my goals differ than most here

but i dont wanna hijack.. again nice post!!!!

edit... yeah stupid karma rules.. sorry Bro

 

[BigAndy69]

if one was going to use longer acting esters for the base could one change it from 6-8wks to 8-10?

Yes, you could do something like:

Phase 1:

W1-6:

Dbol 50mg ED

w1-8
Enanthate: 1000mg
EQ: 400mg a week

~1750mg a week

Phase 2:

W9-10

Prop: 350mg a week
EQ: 400mg a week

~750mg a week

Phase 3:

W11-14

Anavar: 40mg ED

~ 200mg a week

 

[Dial_tone]

Good post.

 

[Darko]

THanks BA, if I happen to do a cycle come spring i like the look of that, i will lower the doses accordingly, but it looks very good.

 

[BigAndy69]

THanks BA, if I happen to do a cycle come spring i like the look of that, i will lower the doses accordingly, but it looks very good.

No problem.

Just like to state that I just put doses out in the air like that, everybody is different and uses a different amount. You should follow the reasonning not the exact doses.

 

[javolic]

very good!!!!

 

[Anakin]

Very comprehensive, thanks for sharing.

Just out of curiosity, what do you consider high volume/intensity in terms of training?

 

[Texas Ranger]

BA, what would you consider to be a good First Cycle for someone that wants to keep it simple, but VERY effective using your method?

 

[flex2win]

great post BigAndy, always interesting to see how the big boys cycle their gear to get the most out of it...

 

[lemac]

wow that´s cool

 

[BigAndy69]

Very comprehensive, thanks for sharing.

Just out of curiosity, what do you consider high volume/intensity in terms of training?

Everybody is different. I'll give you an example of my chest workout during the first phase.

Incline bench press:

5 sets ranging from 3-8 reps, heaviest set: 405lbs for 3-4 reps

Flat db flyes:

3 sets ranging from 5-10 reps, heaviest set: 100bs for 5-6 reps

Flat db press:

3 sets ranging from 5-10 reps, heaviest set: 130bs for 5-6 reps

Cable crossovers:

3 sets ranging from 10-12 reps, heaviest set: 100lbs for 10-12

I gradually go back down to

Incline bench press:

3 sets ranging from 5-8 reps

Flat db flyes:

3 sets ranging from 5-10 reps, heaviest set

Flat db press:

2 sets ranging from 5-10 reps, heaviest set

Cable crossovers:

2 sets ranging from 12-15 rep

(Sometimes I will drop the fourth exercise completely and add 1-2 sets to the 3rd exercise.)


The way I typically train is

1st exercise: Compound: High # of sets
2nd-3rd exercise: BBing: Mid # of sets (dumbells)
4th-5th exercise: Isolation: Mid # of sets (cables)

 

[BigAndy69]

BA, what would you consider to be a good First Cycle for someone that wants to keep it simple, but VERY effective using your method?

No need for this method if it's a first cycle. Typically, everybody keeps all there gains on the first cycle.


This is also not very efficient for cutting (ie losing as much fat mass while perserving as much LBM as possible)

A straight short acting compounds cycle is more efficient when cutting.

 

[scarkarn]

Good post

 

[silver_shadow]

i'd imagine that those who compete may find this useful too as opposed to the "on year round with cruising periods" method that they normally do.
ok- question- what kind of gains have u got from this- before, during, after and much after? bf% and net body wt increase?

 

[Stillgoing]

I thought about this some last night. Interesting. Good post Andy.

 

[BigAndy69]

i'd imagine that those who compete may find this useful too as opposed to the "on year round with cruising periods" method that they normally do.
ok- question- what kind of gains have u got from this- before, during, after and much after? bf% and net body wt increase?

I can't get into specific numbers, I've been using it for a longtime and to this day I keep 90% of my gains even 5-6 months after this type of cycling.

It's a simple concept really;

Take your typical cycle dosage, usually 1.1-1.3g a week for most juicers, increase it slightly and shorten to 6-8 weeks.

 

[argent]

good post. Why do you reduce your cals during PCT and clomid though? I thought you wanted to keep them high.

 

[BigAndy69]

good post. Why do you reduce your cals during PCT and clomid though? I thought you wanted to keep them high.

I'm an endomorph so I don't need that many calories to maintain my weight.

 

[bigmouth]

hey andy i have been running a cycle that looks like this:

1-5 d-bol 40mgs ed
1-10 cyp 600mg ew
1-10 deca 450mg ew
liquidex eod

ok my question is that i have clomid,10,000 ui hcg,plenty of liquidex,i have .40mg clen,and i also have enough var to do 20mgs for 2 weeks in what order should i run these things i understand your post but i am confused on when to do the var and the clen?

thanks

 

[BigAndy69]

I would get some more var and run it Week 11-14 do clen and HCG and then clomid...running the liquidex throughout

 

[Boulder257]

interesting post, I appreciate your thoughts.

 

[canadianhitman]

^up

 

[JohnnyMolson]

Great post, BigAndy! You've given me some ideas for my next cycle.

 

[BigAndy69]

^up for more people to take a look.

 

[Juicifer]

awsome post bro...i'm going to try anavar as a taper for a few weeks at 25mg or so...i've been on for 6 months...made excellent gains but now its time to take a break...what are your opinions on the dbol bridge? obviously it is not for everyone but what about someone like me coming off a huge cycle...i'd rather take dbols and recover only 90% instead of losing alot of gains and jumping back on in spite...(sometimes i'm crazy like that) and when you do the dbol bridge that is after clomid not at the same time correct?

 

[British Bulldog]

BigAndy69

A really good post mate.

In the past I have let the andorgens leave my system & Immediately start clomid therapy. That worked, but I would still loose major gains during the first 2 weeks. Using your method there is a longer period for recovery b4 starting clomid, so hopefully less gains lost.

1 question:

Would a adding 20mg anavar + 10mg Dbol in the mornings DURING clomid therapy prevent a crash. This was used in the mesomorphosis study & the subject actually made gains during clomid therapy. The anavar/dbol taken in the AM still allowed natural test recovery, as was shown by tests.

 

[Dial_tone]

Not my thing but clearly well thought out.

 

[Juicifer]

Would a adding 20mg anavar + 10mg Dbol in the mornings

damn that sounds even more fun but thats like 6 pills right when you wake up...the dbol would go along with your morning spike and the Var would do its regular thing and not even touch htpa? maybe i'll try this though i'd be pretty pissed if i didn't keep gains let alone make gains LOL

 

[British Bulldog]

Not my thing but clearly well thought out.

If u have time Id appreciate what your steroid cycles look lie, including PCT? Cheers.

 

[Dial_tone]

Unlike alot of newbies I don't waste time overanalyzing or searching for the "perfect cycle". I'd rather put that extra effort into the gym.
Currently:

300mg EQ/200mg Deca every 3 days

The Deca will stop at week 10, replaced with 75mg Fina EOD weeks 11-16.
The EQ stops at week 13 or 14.

PCT week 17 - the usual clomid/nolva
Clen doesn't do much for me.

Off for 12-16 weeks then a variation of the above. Likely Test/EQ with split to be determined by my weight at that time.

 

[lilleole]

Nice post, indeed!

hey, whats the cost of yer cycle? have you calculated it?

I mean, gear, pct, protein etc etc

nice avatar btw!

--lilleOle

 

[British Bulldog]

Unlike alot of newbies I don't waste time overanalyzing or searching for the "perfect cycle". I'd rather put that extra effort into the gym.
Currently:

300mg EQ/200mg Deca every 3 days

The Deca will stop at week 10, replaced with 75mg Fina EOD weeks 11-16.
The EQ stops at week 13 or 14.

PCT week 17 - the usual clomid/nolva
Clen doesn't do much for me.

Off for 12-16 weeks then a variation of the above. Likely Test/EQ with split to be determined by my weight at that time.

Cheers mate. Any opinions on my proposal to include anavar with the clomid for PCT.

 

[jatca69]

Hey BA, how long before you start again or do you start right back up after your pct is done?

 

[British Bulldog]

bump for BigAndy69

 

[Juicifer]

bump where'd he go?! lol

 

[BigAndy69]

Hey guys, sorry about my absence...

I consider bridging as part of my cycle.

And it's very very important for keeping your gains.

I like to get off all AS before hitting clomid/clen.

Juicifer (lol, I like the name)

Dbol bridge is very important for you and I would highly recommend it. You don't just come off a 6month cycle, it takes time.

IMO, using 10mg of dbol, or 15mg-20mg of anavar ED as an extention to your cycle is not that harmful in terms of sides. It will delay your HPTA recovery, but it also allows you to keep your gains.

I was using "brigdes" before the term became popular.

 

[British Bulldog]

BigAndy69

I meant using anavar + dbol in the AM as part of clomid therapy. It was used in the mesomorphosis study by Bill Roberts & shown to allow recovery while preventing strength loss. Do u think it will work.

 

[psychedout]

BigAndy69

I meant using anavar + dbol in the AM as part of clomid therapy. It was used in the mesomorphosis study by Bill Roberts & shown to allow recovery while preventing strength loss. Do u think it will work.

Im not andy, but I don't think anavar works. Only dbol.

The whole thing is that dbol rides your natural AM test spike, thus allowing you to recover.

Anymore than than 10mg will cause a secondary spike, that will in turn shut you down.

10mg of var wont work because its long halflife (approx~ 9hours) will cause a secondary spike.


**In short:
-If you want to bridge, take 10mg of Dbol upon waking, and run clomid therapy at the same time.

Someone correct me if im wrong, but I think it all makes sense.

 

[British Bulldog]

But, I thought anavar does not effect the HPTA so using it should not really effect recovery.

 

[liquidmuscle]

why didnt you post this when i first signed up here at elite, even though i have a "good" deal of knowledge there is always something new i read but this makes the most sense all the way down to pct

 

[Juicifer]

BigAndy69

I meant using anavar + dbol in the AM as part of clomid therapy. It was used in the mesomorphosis study by Bill Roberts & shown to allow recovery while preventing strength loss. Do u think it will work.

it would definatelly work as far as keeping gains and maybe even making them and i dont see why you could not recover 80-90% of htpa but i'm going to try it like bigandy said by taking FIRST the var for 2-4 weeks to give me just that much more time to get used to low hormone levels and then take dbols AM at the same time as clomid and nolvadex, and then as i get further towards the end of my bridge i will hit the clomid and nolvadex again. i read that the bridge must be run for a minimum of 6-8 weeks. since i've been on for so long i dont feel bad for using twice as much clomid. i've never done a bridge before but being the first time i'm going to try it with the least amount of hormones so if this doesn't work i will try var at the same time next time. 10mg dbol in the morning is cheating as it is.

 

[georgie24]

great read

 

[BigAndy69]

BigAndy69

I meant using anavar + dbol in the AM as part of clomid therapy. It was used in the mesomorphosis study by Bill Roberts & shown to allow recovery while preventing strength loss. Do u think it will work.

Anavar + dbol would be overkill. I wouldn't use more than 10mg in the AM with clomid.

Anavar does suppress the HPTA and it can shut it down.

There are varying degrees of shutdown and suppression.

Some drugs are easy to bounce back from(anavar is the easiest as well as primo)

 

[Silent Method]

Good post.

 

[BigAndy69]

why didnt you post this when i first signed up here at elite, even though i have a "good" deal of knowledge there is always something new i read but this makes the most sense all the way down to pct

I just cycled the way I thought was right. It makes the most sense to me. I never bothered to put it down in full on a post, but I'm glad I did.

 

[eviction]

hey andy, when does shutdown from nandro usually occur? If i had the side effects they should have already come up, right? I think i'm good to go

 

[BigAndy69]

hey andy, when does shutdown from nandro usually occur? If i had the side effects they should have already come up, right? I think i'm good to go

You are shutdown. 50mg of Nandrolone or Test will shut you down...but like I indicated in another post, there are varying degrees of suppression and shutdown.

It shouldn't be too bad for you, 6 weeks is not a big deal.

 

[eviction]

You are shutdown. 50mg of Nandrolone or Test will shut you down...but like I indicated in another post, there are varying degrees of suppression and shutdown.

It shouldn't be too bad for you, 6 weeks is not a big deal.

the problem i was having went away by itself tho, which leads me to beleive that it was all in my head. I think im just playing mind games with myself.

 

[BigAndy69]

the problem i was having went away by itself tho, which leads me to beleive that it was all in my head. I think im just playing mind games with myself.

I'm glad it worked out.

 

[duke of earl]

Do you think I could bridge (while doing PCT) using Var only, or Var & Tbol?
Would 15mg Var every morning would do the trick? or would I need a little more?

 

[The_Chemist]

great read!

 

[BigAndy69]

Do you think I could bridge (while doing PCT) using Var only, or Var & Tbol?
Would 15mg Var every morning would do the trick? or would I need a little more?

I think that is too much, I include my bridge as part of my cycles. Using AS with PCT, you are better off using lower doses, 5-10mg of var in the morning. Ideal is 5-10mg of dbol taken all at once in the morning.