Mac vs Vista 32/64-bit

[Razorguns]

Argh!

I wanna buy a new computer. Rendering, editing, visual fx, 3d modelling, reading tmz.com, all that good shit.

But every Windows computer has that stupid fucking 3 GIG limit. And Vista by everyone's account - sucks balls. Ugly ass orb, ugly black taskbar, unstable apps.

And 64-bit Vista? No 64-bit apps, and it's even more unstable.

XP 32/64? Same limits. But more stable. And more prone to viruses, spyware and all the bullshit.

So EVERYONE I know, who does any video or graphic design for a living - buys Macs.

I may have to bite the bullet. But I don't want to. For one I have to rebuy f'n Adobe Production Premium CS3 for $2g's. Then, knowing my luck - MS will release a service pack the next day.

I talked to a IT friend who works for a HW company. He says the PC industry is PISSED like fuck at MS for dropping the ball on the Vista POS. Corporations aren't upgrading. Consumers aren't buying PC's. Xmas time, they still can only pump out 3GB computers. So no reason to upgrade. And software developers are pissed, cuz they can't build more powerful ram-hungry machines.

And best buy/cc - all acknowledge - their mac sales are rising every month. They're devoting more and more space each month to mac products. Go take a look.

MS sure dropped the ball. It's crisis mode in the industry if you read those pc mags.

What do you think will happen? Will MS finally figured out a service pack to fix Vista and use more memory? Free upgrade to 64-bit Vista to compete with Mac? The end of MS's dominance?

I'm holding off purchasing. I ain't buying some shitty 64-bit Vista with 8 gigs, only to spend 50% of my time fixing crashes on FX renders.

Comments? What are you polks running?

r

 

[bw1]

I'm leaning towards getting a Mac also.

 

[chazk]

I want a airbook

 

[Dial_tone]

The 3GB memory limitation is a function of the 32-bit addresses of 32 pin CPUs. A 32 bit processor uses 32 bits to refer to the location of each byte of memory. 2^32 = 4.2 billion. That means a memory address that`s 32 bits long can only refer to 4.2 billion unique locations in memory (that`s 4GB of memory). That "problem" is courtesy of Intel, not Microsoft. In their defense the IA-32 architecture came about when 1MB of PC RAM was a boatload. They could hack the OS to use 36 bits via Physical Address Extension as they have done with certain versions of Windows 2003 server; however it causes more crashes and the tech support issues would be a nightmare. If you need 4GB+ go to 64-bit and shut up.

The real problem is that 95% of all PC users have no need for more than 3GB of RAM. I do all the IT purchasing for my company; I still spec them with 2GB (and XP Pro) and thats just because it's dirt cheap. 1.5GB is plenty.

If people needed more than 4GB of RAM they'd be buying 64-bit Vista en masse and forcing MS to fix the performance issues (which they have done with SP1). Nobody needs 4GB+ RAM = nobody buys new computers with Vista = no motivation to write 64-bit software.

Until OSX Mac sucked just as much if not more. Macs didn't have protected memory until OSX, which meant if one program crashed it brought down the entire computer; unlike Windows where just that program crashed.

i use Ubuntu Linux at home and I couldn't tell you the last time my PC crashed. I wouldn't mind having a Mac Pro but then I'd have to go back to paying for software.

Vista's problems are performance-related, not stability. SP1 is on the way and addresses that to some degree. MS did the right thing in trying to dump 32-bit support; the problem is that 64-bit OS is the answer to the question nobody asked. It's really only needed for database servers and advanced graphics applications, which is just too small a minority to drive the industry.

 

[Razorguns]

I disagree with your "nobody needs 4GB".

3GB is fine if you're a big ms word user. If all you desire is surfing EF and myspace, writing some documents and sending emails, maybe some games - Yeah 3GB is good. Too bad you're stuck with that limit for years.

But look up 64-bit and Adobe After Effects, 3DS Max, Premiere Pro on creativecow. Nothing but problems.

But some of us desire more. I want to do 1080p editing on it. I desire to do Visual FX rendering and animation. I want to burn Blu-Ray discs.

So a buggy 64-bit Vista is NOT an option. Nor is "buying a buggy product, and bugging MS to fix it". I aint' got time for that! "Sorry sir, can't deliver product tomorrow. OS is giving me headaches".

So we're stuck with 3GB for the next 10 years????

r

 

[guest username]

I have a MacBook (a black one). Love it. I also run Windows Vista through Parallels desktop without a problem, although I'm not gaming or anything. Just use it for some proprietary programs that are Windows compatible only.

Safari (Mac's web browser) is faster than anything else I've ever used, Macs have great calendar and address book programs that automatically sync to other Macs and iPhones, Office works well (a little slow to start up for the first time though - takes about 45 seconds instead of the 10 seconds for Windows), and of course Photoshop and other high end programs work like a breeze.

Go to an Apple store and check out a Mac. I've been a loyal Mac user for the past 6 years, but I'm nowhere like any of the fanatics out there. I had a PowerMac G5 that I recently upgraded to a Mac Pro, plus I have the MacBook that I love.

 

[Razorguns]

I have a MacBook (a black one). Love it. I also run Windows Vista through Parallels desktop without a problem, although I'm not gaming or anything. Just use it for some proprietary programs that are Windows compatible only.

Safari (Mac's web browser) is faster than anything else I've ever used, Macs have great calendar and address book programs that automatically sync to other Macs and iPhones, Office works well (a little slow to start up for the first time though - takes about 45 seconds instead of the 10 seconds for Windows), and of course Photoshop and other high end programs work like a breeze.

Go to an Apple store and check out a Mac. I've been a loyal Mac user for the past 6 years, but I'm nowhere like any of the fanatics out there. I had a PowerMac G5 that I recently upgraded to a Mac Pro, plus I have the MacBook that I love.

so if you have office, and other windows you have to

1) load the mac
2) load boot camp
3) load xp
4) run the application (office)

isn't that lengthy and a long time? And you're still stuck with 3gigs? and how do you access the mac file structure from an xp shell? I have lotsa PC apps.

I just have a feeling I'm gonna be blowing $10g's one day on everything. There goes my beer money.

r

 

[Dial_tone]

I disagree with your "nobody needs 4GB".

3GB is fine if you're a big ms word user. If all you desire is surfing EF and myspace, writing some documents and sending emails, maybe some games - Yeah 3GB is good. Too bad you're stuck with that limit for years.

r

I usually have Outlook, Word, 2 Excel documents, several browser windows (both Firefox & IE7), FTPzilla, Trillian IM, Adobe Image Ready, our VOIP phone software and our CRM database open all day long plus anti-virus, anti-spyware, Copernic Desktop Search and a webcam security camera running in the background 24/7. I have two monitors and my boss has four.

I'm connected to my work PC from home right now and with all that open I still have almost 600MB of 2GB RAM free. It's hard to manage that many windows but the performance is fine, although the phone software fucks up Outlook sometimes. Copernic pegs the CPU as you can see here. That dog needs some work.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Argh!

I wanna buy a new computer. Rendering, editing, visual fx, 3d modelling, reading tmz.com, all that good shit.

But every Windows computer has that stupid fucking 3 GIG limit. And Vista by everyone's account - sucks balls. Ugly ass orb, ugly black taskbar, unstable apps.

And 64-bit Vista? No 64-bit apps, and it's even more unstable.

XP 32/64? Same limits. But more stable. And more prone to viruses, spyware and all the bullshit.

So EVERYONE I know, who does any video or graphic design for a living - buys Macs.

I may have to bite the bullet. But I don't want to. For one I have to rebuy f'n Adobe Production Premium CS3 for $2g's. Then, knowing my luck - MS will release a service pack the next day.

I talked to a IT friend who works for a HW company. He says the PC industry is PISSED like fuck at MS for dropping the ball on the Vista POS. Corporations aren't upgrading. Consumers aren't buying PC's. Xmas time, they still can only pump out 3GB computers. So no reason to upgrade. And software developers are pissed, cuz they can't build more powerful ram-hungry machines.

And best buy/cc - all acknowledge - their mac sales are rising every month. They're devoting more and more space each month to mac products. Go take a look.

MS sure dropped the ball. It's crisis mode in the industry if you read those pc mags.

What do you think will happen? Will MS finally figured out a service pack to fix Vista and use more memory? Free upgrade to 64-bit Vista to compete with Mac? The end of MS's dominance?

I'm holding off purchasing. I ain't buying some shitty 64-bit Vista with 8 gigs, only to spend 50% of my time fixing crashes on FX renders.

Comments? What are you polks running?

r

I hear ya. Microsoft has some doglegs in their software. I was hoping that 64 bit Vista would help drive the market for faster 64 bit app support but so far that's slow out the gates, er, gate. (I had to ) It'd be great having 64 bit Vista and no RAM limits but what's the point if there's barely anything that'll use it. For 32 bit XP it's been said that 2 gigs is the sweet spot, which is very limited for power users, so MS is kinda fucking with their install base at the moment. I'll probably still get 64 bit Vista before getting a Mac, unless MS really fucks up, which is possible if their recent track record is any indication.

Mac Powerbooks are nice but you still have an entire kingdom of software at your command with Windows. If that disappeared I suppose I'd have to familiarize myself with Mac, which would probably end up with all the same if not more problems that Microsoft has ever had.

 

[Razorguns]

I usually have Outlook, Word, 2 Excel documents, several browser windows (both Firefox & IE7), FTPzilla, Trillian IM, Adobe Image Ready, our VOIP phone software and our CRM database open all day long plus anti-virus, anti-spyware, Copernic Desktop Search and a webcam security camera running in the background 24/7. I have two monitors and my boss has four.

I'm connected to my work PC from home right now and with all that open I still have almost 600MB of 2GB RAM free. It's hard to manage that many windows but the performance is fine, although the phone software fucks up Outlook sometimes. Copernic pegs the CPU as you can see here. That dog needs some work.

Yeah but NONE of those apps by themselves would take up >3GB of space in an application space.

Imagine rendering a 1920x1080 HD scene with a small amount of fx, modelling, graphics, etc. Right now with 32-bit Vista, 3GB's - guess how long it takes?

8 HOURS.

I was in Beverly Hills today visiting a friend who does Visual FX at this post house on films. They all use macs. 16 GBs each on their workstations. Rendering for them, takes 25 minutes with Nuclear Pro Installed.

I mentioned 64-bit Vista and they all started laughing at me.

I felt so small. I felt like Perkele.

videocopilot.net - my friend Andrew Kramer. Visual FX god. Uses a MAC for all his amazing stuff.

I just don't like the Mac, but i may have no choice in this matter. Stability and memory is important to me.

I'm not gonna make my footage suffer cuz my o/s is too dinky to handle it.

r