low dose cycles...why?

[HAYEZ]

So there has been alot of posts recently about users doing 250mg as a 1st cycle etc....

When has the normal cycles people have been doing for years all of a sudden became unpopular and wrong? Maybe im missing something?

example
cycle 1
test e 500mg ew
eq 400mg ew
dbol 50 mg ed

cycle 2
test e 500mg ew
deca 400mg ew
dbol 50mg ed

these 2 cycles were pretty typical as a 1st cycle up until say this past year or so...what happened? Just trying to get an idea of where this all came from these doses were EXTREME...

 

[miplank]

A lot of guys are keeping it simple for thier first run. When running 3 different steroids. a newbie isn't going to know how their body is going to react to all 3. So if there is a problem it's harder to tell what the culprit is.

 

[HAYEZ]

but to waste your health and 15 weeks on a bare minimum results cycle seems pointless...

 

[the small soldier]

I'm on a cycle of 250 mg test E right now, I'm seeing good results and no sides I wouldn't change a thing. next time I'm doing 350 with 600 primo

 

[LiquidPhire]

Hayez bro I agree with you, I ran my first cycle in 06 when I joined here and it was recommended to me by Need2 at 500mg test e, 400mg deca ew with dbol kicker not sure of those dosages. For a period of time on EF people were stating it was a good idea to run test @ 1000mg a week to "maximize" gains since you don't gain as well as you do on your first cycle. Personally I don't see anything wrong with the above cycles.. It is what ive recommended.

Yes Nelson , Test as a first cycle!!! =P

 

[Big_BK]

Steroids as well as any other medication are not a "one size fits all" thing. I don't know why people look at them that way.

 

[HAYEZ]

Hayez bro I agree with you, I ran my first cycle in 06 when I joined here and it was recommended to me by Need2 at 500mg test e, 400mg deca ew with dbol kicker not sure of those dosages. For a period of time on EF people were stating it was a good idea to run test @ 1000mg a week to "maximize" gains since you don't gain as well as you do on your first cycle. Personally I don't see anything wrong with the above cycles.. It is what ive recommended.

Yes Nelson , Test as a first cycle!!! =P

thanks! just seems 1st cycle you want the absolute best out of it! why pussyfoot around the goals when ya know what ya want...sides are extremely blown out of proportion with aas...

 

[halfcenturian]

So there has been alot of posts recently about users doing 250mg as a 1st cycle etc....

When has the normal cycles people have been doing for years all of a sudden became unpopular and wrong? Maybe im missing something?

example
cycle 1
test e 500mg ew
eq 400mg ew
dbol 50 mg ed

cycle 2
test e 500mg ew
deca 400mg ew
dbol 50mg ed

these 2 cycles were pretty typical as a 1st cycle up until say this past year or so...what happened? Just trying to get an idea of where this all came from these doses were EXTREME...

They are STILL typical. Not a thing wrong with either cycle, bro.

I run your Cycle #2 every year with Great success.

For me I think the better trend is to go lower and longer with oral AAS. I had
a great Var/Test/Masteron cycle this summer and ran var @ 40mg/ED instead of 60.
8 weeks instead of 6. Virtually no sides. Lipids not so out of whack, and better over all results.
Same with Dbol ...less dose.. longer cycle.

 

[IronmanLV]

thanks! just seems 1st cycle you want the absolute best out of it! why pussyfoot around the goals when ya know what ya want...sides are extremely blown out of proportion with aas...

You know I'm glad you brought this topic up. I've been a member here for just a few months but have been in the game more years then most of the members here have been alive.

I too have wondered why such weak first cycles are always recommended on EF. As a matter of fact I was chastised a few months back for suggesting to a newbie to go on 500mg/wk Test-E, 400mg/wk Deca and a 4 week kick start with Dbol 40mg/day. I've always thought this to be a very reasonable and rather modest cycle.

I was told the same thing that if the user had a problem they'd never know what caused it. My response is if this cycle caused any negative sides at all then they probably are very sensitive to gear and should perhaps shy away from AAS altogether. I still believe that. I believe either crap or get off the thrown.

Well just my $0.02.

 

[Wulfgar]

most guys waaaay overdose themselves

too much too early leads to burnout, increased chance of sides and a a lack of long term progress

 

[layinback]

They are STILL typical. Not a thing wrong with either cycle, bro.

I run your Cycle #2 every year with Great success.

For me I think the better trend is to go lower and longer with oral AAS. I had
a great Var/Test/Masteron cycle this summer and ran var @ 40mg/ED instead of 60.
8 weeks instead of 6. Virtually no sides. Lipids not so out of whack, and better over all results.
Same with Dbol ...less dose.. longer cycle.

damn HC, we went to different schools together! i might as well stop posting
'cause you post what i'd post.


btw that makes you a GENIUS

 

[dabuffguy]

As a first, when someone can take 30mg dbol (210mg weekly) for 6 weeks and gain 30lbs of mass, and keep more than 50% (15+ pounds), why would you think that takin 5x more gear can be substantially more beneficial?

 

[OneBreath]

I think a lot of it has to do with personal goals. I started with a 500 mg test cycle but i have no intention of being "hoooge". Now i had a young guy PM me who wanted to eventually compete and was asking advice on his first cycle. In that case i have no experience but i would imagine starting right off with test/decca/dbol would be the way to go.

2 completely different people, 2 completely different first cycles.

 

[sweed]

For my 2nd cycle I'll be going with 250mgs test EW just to check it out. If I gain nicely then I will have succeeded. I'll be going with some var most likely at the end.Just going for a solid lean 10 lbs. I don't see why increasing drastically seems you'll gain so much more. If this was the case there would be waay more people rediculously huge.

 

[digit0x]

So many good points... Goals are huge. I would bet that most guys aren't trying to get massive. Slat is an old schooler and hopefully he chimes in here. Basically it boils down to this: If you are gaining/keeping 10 lbs of muscle (post PCT) on a low dose AAS (ie 250 Test-E), why go higher? Yes certainly you will gain more faster with gram a day cycles, but there are diminishing returns.

Like another bro said: There is no "one-size fits all cycle." You must weigh in many factors before you can make a logical recommendation to anyone, including a newbie.

EF is a community that evolves with the experience and knowledge of its members. There is no exact science readily available to your average joe about how to 'use steroids most effectively'. We test and experiment, and make recommendations based on what worked, or didn't work, for us. That is all.

 

[dabuffguy]

So many good points... Goals are huge. I would bet that most guys aren't trying to get massive. Slat is an old schooler and hopefully he chimes in here. Basically it boils down to this: If you are gaining/keeping 10 lbs of muscle (post PCT) on a low dose AAS (ie 250 Test-E), why go higher? Yes certainly you will gain more faster with gram a day cycles, but there are diminishing returns.

Like another bro said: There is no "one-size fits all cycle." You must weigh in many factors before you can make a logical recommendation to anyone, including a newbie.

EF is a community that evolves with the experience and knowledge of its members. There is no exact science readily available to your average joe about how to 'use steroids most effectively'. We test and experiment, and make recommendations based on what worked, or didn't work, for us. That is all.

In the end, a person has to make his own choice on what to run. If someone says one thing, and someone says something polar opposite, you need to weigh the pros, cons and maybe even meet them in the middle.

I do great on low doses. For someone that is tall, 6'2", I need a lot of muscle mass to look a little bigger. Someone who is 5'7 gains 10 pounds, and they look like they exploded out of their skin. I, on the other hand, wouldn't look near as big comparitively with 10 more pounds.

 

[miplank]

At the end of the day, this site is just for advice. The user needs to listen to all the advice given and then do a lil research on their own to find out what is going to work best for them as an individual.

 

[dabuffguy]

At the end of the day, this site is just for advice. The user needs to listen to all the advice given and then do a lil research on their own to find out what is going to work best for them as an individual.

yep.

but, still I think suggesting someone a gram of gear a week is ridiculous for a first time.

 

[miplank]

yep.

but, still I think suggesting someone a gram of gear a week is ridiculous for a first time.

I don't disagree with you. But that is where the person should be researching on their own. You can't rely on everyone else to do it for you.

Everyone is going to have their opinion of the "best" cycle for you. That's when you take everyones opinions...filter through them and find which works for you, or tweak their suggestions to fit you.

 

[dabuffguy]

I don't disagree with you. But that is where the person should be researching on their own. You can't rely on everyone else to do it for you.

Everyone is going to have their opinion of the "best" cycle for you. That's when you take everyones opinions...filter through them and find which works for you, or tweak their suggestions to fit you.

Sure

But, going low and working your way up is a btetter approach than just taking a shitload of stuff cuz you know that will work.

When "3" works, why do "12"?

 

[sweed]

yes 10 lbs isn't much for us guys 6'2" and taller, but I would like to keep it relatively "quiet" while I'm on. haha

 

[HAYEZ]

because by the time you find out 3 doesnt work and you need 6 you wasted your cycle and then you have to wait 4 months to do another one




Quote posted by miplank
I don't disagree with you. But that is where the person should be researching on their own. You can't rely on everyone else to do it for you.

Everyone is going to have their opinion of the "best" cycle for you. That's when you take everyones opinions...filter through them and find which works for you, or tweak their suggestions to fit you.
Sure

But, going low and working your way up is a btetter approach than just taking a shitload of stuff cuz you know that will work.

When "3" works, why do "12"?

 

[hardrock]

I think a gram of AAS a week for your first cycle is just plain and simply waay to much. My first i ran 200mg deca/wk and and 20 mg dbol/day. 8 week cycle and I gained 32 lbs, kept 18. Do you really think had I double the dose and threw in 500 mg test the results would have been that much greater? I highly doubt it.

 

[dabuffguy]

because by the time you find out 3 doesnt work and you need 6 you wasted your cycle and then you have to wait 4 months to do another one

1) NOBODY is gonna NOT grow with 500mg week (of any combo of compounds) if they are eating enough food on a first cycle.

2) If you didn't grow with that much, see #1. You didn't eat enough food.

3) Even if you ate a shitload and didn't grow on 500mg, then steroids don't work for you, which is most likely impossible.



Plain and simple,

example
cycle 1
test e 500mg ew
eq 400mg ew
dbol 50 mg ed

cycle 2
test e 500mg ew
deca 400mg ew
dbol 50mg ed


Either one of these is way too much shit. 1250mg weekly for a frist? WTF?



Even after all that, if you didn't grow because you didn't take enough gear. Oh well, there's always next time. Nobody gets huge over night, or in a few months time. and I say tis so non-chalantly because it won't happen.

 

[HAYEZ]

They are STILL typical. Not a thing wrong with either cycle, bro.

I run your Cycle #2 every year with Great success.

For me I think the better trend is to go lower and longer with oral AAS. I had
a great Var/Test/Masteron cycle this summer and ran var @ 40mg/ED instead of 60.
8 weeks instead of 6. Virtually no sides. Lipids not so out of whack, and better over all results.
Same with Dbol ...less dose.. longer cycle.

!!!!!

 

[HAYEZ]

1) NOBODY is gonna NOT grow with 500mg week (of any combo of compounds) if they are eating enough food on a first cycle.

2) If you didn't grow with that much, see #1. You didn't eat enough food.

3) Even if you ate a shitload and didn't grow on 500mg, then steroids don't work for you, which is most likely impossible.



Plain and simple,

example
cycle 1
test e 500mg ew
eq 400mg ew
dbol 50 mg ed

cycle 2
test e 500mg ew
deca 400mg ew
dbol 50mg ed


Either one of these is way too much shit. 1250mg weekly for a frist? WTF?



Even after all that, if you didn't grow because you didn't take enough gear. Oh well, there's always next time. Nobody gets huge over night, or in a few months time. and I say tis so non-chalantly because it won't happen.

and where did you come up with this being to much?
you have done these cycles and the sides were to overwhelming?
low dose or high dose all the same results happen to you?
you read it on here and liked how it sounded?
this has been standard for the last 5-6 years i have been on the internet reading about them...what has changed this year that makes this WAY TO MUCH...just trying to get an idea of who and how these low dose cycle even started getting around...

 

[dabuffguy]

!!!!!

Okay, but the thread title is:

"Low dose cycles...why?"

I'm just making the case for why.



I don't disagree that higher doses will bring solid results.

But, if lower doses can bring the same results, which it has been proven many many times that it can, then the thread title should be:

"Low dose cycles...why not?"

The only answer for your side of the discussion is that it guarantees maximum results. That's it.

Well, almost everytime, if not everytime, 500mg weekly of gear should guarantee maximum results for a newbie. I say 'should' because that is diet and training dependant. Even then, with an equal diet and training (even if both sucked) on 500mg or 1250 mg weekly, the results is gonna be pretty darn close to the same.

 

[miplank]

All I'm saying is that while this site is great for advice and information.....You can't be a lazy bitch and just expect people to tell you what "YOU" need to do. I'll admit that a lot of the guys on this site know what they're talking about, but on the same token i've seen guys give advice where I was like "WTF!"

So...Moral of the story..

Come on here...read everything...ask for advice, but do some of your own damn research to make sure you know what your doing.

I'm not condoning a first time user taking 1G Test per week by any means. I'm just saying that if someone told you that and you were a newb, i'd hope to god that you went out and did some of your own research to know well enough that that would be bad advice.

Shit...Look at any cycle thread in these forums...you'll see tons of people giving different advice. So who do you belive? Even nelson says not to recommend test as a first cycle, but how many people disagree with him?

So again...do yourself a favor and research on your own. You'll thank yourself later.

 

[MichaelScott]

Hayez bro I agree with you, I ran my first cycle in 06 when I joined here and it was recommended to me by Need2 at 500mg test e, 400mg deca ew with dbol kicker not sure of those dosages. For a period of time on EF people were stating it was a good idea to run test @ 1000mg a week to "maximize" gains since you don't gain as well as you do on your first cycle. Personally I don't see anything wrong with the above cycles.. It is what ive recommended.

Yes Nelson , Test as a first cycle!!! =P

i dont remember that school of thought on this board

 

[sweed]

I gained 30lbs on test at 500 ew and dbol at 30mgs for the kickstart. If I added deca at 300 how much more will I have (if any) gained. I was very happy with my first cycle. I wouldn't change a thing. As a result, I am going to try 250mgs of test e5d ( dabuffguy i like that idea!). I am confident, even at my size, I will make solid gains. Maybe not 30lbs, but a solid 10 lbs with var at the end. If I do not grow that much, big deal and I have learned. I am young and have plenty of time.

 

[halfcenturian]

damn HC, we went to different schools together! i might as well stop posting
'cause you post what i'd post.


btw that makes you a GENIUS

*****************************************

....That makes you a Homo! just kiddin', bro.

I know you have had great success running your turbo-var "low and long" for a while now.
I think you guys are right on the money.
That's how I'm running oral aas from now on. I even had an old
vet tell me he went as low as 10mg EOD on Halo and got fabulous results. Thank, pardner.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I love the mentality "You're going to ruin you health anyway, why waste a good cycle"? I mean, it's so silly it's laughable. If you're going to drink alcohol w you might as well get shitfaced drunk and shoot some heroin! I mean, can these people not see the illogic involved?

And here's a news flash; Low doses WERE the typical first cycle at one time. You know, back when guys actually looked good and didn't lose their balls?

Fuck, the old timers made great gains on 25 mgs of dbol. I never touched a steroid until I was 41 and I placed in a national competition using 250 mgs a week. I'm mean...shut the fuck up already.

Look, if you want to shoot a gram a day, be my guest. But I'm getting a little sick of hearing stupid ass advice from people who don;t know dick about training or eating or cycling. Enough already. Stop defending stupidity.

 

[LiquidPhire]

Someone hand Nelly a tissue

 

[Nelson Montana]

Someone hand Nelly a tissue

I don't get it.

If I recall you're among the ilk that believes you should do higher dosages to make the most of your first cycle. Dude, you make good gains because your receptors are fresh. Oversaturating them REDUCES future gains.

You can disagree, but try to make sense. People are listening.

 

[dabuffguy]

I love the mentality "You're going to ruin you health anyway, why waste a good cycle"? I mean, it's so silly it's laughable. If you're going to drink alcohol w you might as well get shitfaced drunk and shoot some heroin! I mean, can these people not see the illogic involved?

And here's a news flash; Low doses WERE the typical first cycle at one time. You know, back when guys actually looked good and didn't lose their balls?

Fuck, the old timers made great gains on 25 mgs of dbol. I never touched a steroid until I was 41 and I placed in a national competition using 250 mgs a week. I'm mean...shut the fuck up already.

Look, if you want to shoot a gram a day, be my guest. But I'm getting a little sick of hearing stupid ass advice from people who don;t know dick about training or eating or cycling. Enough already. Stop defending stupidity.

Nelson's been around this stuff longer than anybody I can think of on here. He's been there done tht many times. I don't always agree with his ideas, but he is straigh as an arrow, dead on with this one.

Only a select few people on here that I have seen look as good as the old school guys. Those guys were not mass monsters like coleman, but they were still damn huge. And they used doses that people today would consider laughable.

Train your ass off, and eat your heart out, and 2 or 3 times your natty test level will be sufficient for many runs to gain mass.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Nelson's been around this stuff longer than anybody I can think of on here. He's been there done tht many times. I don't always agree with his ideas, but he is straigh as an arrow, dead on with this one.

Only a select few people on here that I have seen look as good as the old school guys. Those guys were not mass monsters like coleman, but they were still damn huge. And they used doses that people today would consider laughable.

Train your ass off, and eat your heart out, and 2 or 3 times your natty test level will be sufficient for many runs to gain mass.

Thank you. And yeah, apparently, looking like Serge Nubret or Frank Zane isn't good enough for anybody anymore. They have to take the dosages that Cutler takes. Meanwhile some of these guys barely look like they work out -- which is fine, but don't come off like you know so much and direct newbies to follow stupid advice.

 

[dabuffguy]

Thank you. And yeah, apparently, looking like Serge Nubret or Frank Zane isn't good enough for anybody anymore. They have to take the dosages that Cutler takes. Meanwhile some of these guys barely look like they work out -- which is fine, but don't come off like you know so much and direct newbies to follow stupid advice.

I can take 3X as much gear as Jay Cutler, an I'll never look like jay cutler.

At best, I'd look like Arnold minus 20 pounds. Which is still f-king awesome.

 

[layinback]

i've never ran more than 500 mg test ( i hit 600 for a week or two 'bout 6 yrs ago )

never more than 400 mg primo with 400 test. never more than 30 mg's Dbol.

i think the biggest cycle i ever did was test 500, EQ 400 and tren hex 300. i dropped the tren to 200 after first couple weeks.

i have pics in my profile, judge for yourself. it just isn't necessary unless you are pro. i always train and eat like there's no
tomorrow, the drugs FACILITATE my potential. they're not used to compensate for lack of hard work and discipline.

 

[dabuffguy]

i've never ran more than 500 mg test ( i hit 600 for a week or two 'bout 6 yrs ago )

never more than 400 mg primo with 400 test. never more than 30 mg's Dbol.

i think the biggest cycle i ever did was test 500, EQ 400 and tren hex 300. i dropped the tren to 200 after first couple weeks.

i have pics in my profile, judge for yourself. it just isn't necessary unless you are pro. i always train and eat like there's no
tomorrow, the drugs FACILITATE my potential. they're not used to compensate for lack of hard work and discipline.

keep in mind, layinback is 6'4". And for being that thick at 6'4, and ?240ish lbs? bro, and super lean.

layinback has a great physique.

 

[layinback]

keep in mind, layinback is 6'4". And for being that thick at 6'4, and ?240ish lbs? bro, and super lean.

layinback has a great physique.

you are definitely on my christmas list!

yep, i have a very large frame and it's been a chore to fill it out. i have a SUPRA
fast metabolism and when bulking, i'll take in 6 - 8000 calories a day.

 

[Roc86]

If you have good genetics to start with, have built a solid base, and respond incredibly well to gear then why not?

TBH alot of guys in the gyms and on these forums look like absolute dogshit when you consider the exotic and heavy cycles alot of dudes run.

If your a competitor all the power to ya --> its part of the game.

But, if you doing AAS for recreational/vanity purposes then why risk your health for the sake of catering to your own inferiority complex?

 

[layinback]

If you have good genetics to start with, have built a solid base, and respond incredibly well to gear then why not?

TBH alot of guys in the gyms and on these forums look like absolute dogshit when you consider the exotic and heavy cycles alot of dudes run.

If your a competitor all the power to ya --> its part of the game.

But, if you doing AAS for recreational/vanity purposes then why risk your health for the sake of catering to your own inferiority complex?

lol truer words never spoken!

 

[sshadoww]

Nelson's been around this stuff longer than anybody I can think of on here. He's been there done tht many times. I don't always agree with his ideas, but he is straigh as an arrow, dead on with this one.

Only a select few people on here that I have seen look as good as the old school guys. Those guys were not mass monsters like coleman, but they were still damn huge. And they used doses that people today would consider laughable.

Train your ass off, and eat your heart out, and 2 or 3 times your natty test level will be sufficient for many runs to gain mass.

I completely agree...and I'd add the fact that running multiple compounds the first time doesn't give you a chance to see how well or poorly your body reacts to each individual AAS.

For my first injectable cycle I ran approx 320mg Test cyp ew for 10 weeks- with a 3 week Low dose Dbol kickstart- and I gained 18 pounds as well as major strength gains. The key is to be smart and stay healthy.

 

[MichaelScott]

Hayez bro I agree with you, I ran my first cycle in 06 when I joined here and it was recommended to me by Need2 at 500mg test e, 400mg deca ew with dbol kicker not sure of those dosages. For a period of time on EF people were stating it was a good idea to run test @ 1000mg a week to "maximize" gains since you don't gain as well as you do on your first cycle. Personally I don't see anything wrong with the above cycles.. It is what ive recommended.

Yes Nelson , Test as a first cycle!!! =P

the only guy i can remember endorsing high dosages was Holy_ghost i think

 

[ALIN]

So there has been alot of posts recently about users doing 250mg as a 1st cycle etc....

When has the normal cycles people have been doing for years all of a sudden became unpopular and wrong? Maybe im missing something?

example
cycle 1
test e 500mg ew
eq 400mg ew
dbol 50 mg ed

cycle 2
test e 500mg ew
deca 400mg ew
dbol 50mg ed

these 2 cycles were pretty typical as a 1st cycle up until say this past year or so...what happened? Just trying to get an idea of where this all came from these doses were EXTREME...

in my early years I often only ran 250-500mg and it worked for me then.

 

[AAP]

Slow and steady wins the race.

The lower the dose, the longer the cycle.

The longer the cycle, the more permanent the gains.

 

[digimon7068]

i'll be 44 in a couple of weeks and i cruise at 200mg test-cyp ew year-round along with 1 iu gh ed (under a doctor's supervision. . .hrt). . .works great for me. . .once or twice a year i'll throw in a little extra test (150mg ew) and a little deca (150mg ew) for a few weeks to recover from the lean months or to add a few pounds before i lean out again. . .

 

[digit0x]

you are definitely on my christmas list!

yep, i have a very large frame and it's been a chore to fill it out. i have a SUPRA
fast metabolism and when bulking, i'll take in 6 - 8000 calories a day.

Yea man I'm 6'4'' and its insane filling the frame. I'm right behind you!

 

[digit0x]

Slow and steady wins the race.

The lower the dose, the longer the cycle.

The longer the cycle, the more permanent the gains.

Rarely heard wisdom. +1

 

[Nelson Montana]

Slow and steady wins the race.

The lower the dose, the longer the cycle.

The longer the cycle, the more permanent the gains.

I agree that slow and steady is the way to go, but with breaks in-between. Staying on a low dose for a long time is more suppressive than anabolic and will lead to dependence. HRT is slow and steady and people don't make great gains on it. I think what the old timers did was beat -- hit it hard for 6 weeks, 2-3 times a year and grow in short spurts. That builds the the longer lasting muscle.

 

[bsdgeek]

I agree that slow and steady is the way to go, but with breaks in-between. Staying on a low dose for a long time is more suppressive than anabolic and will lead to dependence. HRT is slow and steady and people don't make great gains on it. I think what the old timers did was beat -- hit it hard for 6 weeks, 2-3 times a year and grow in short spurts. That builds the the longer lasting muscle.

yep, couldn't agree more. also AAP nailed it. guys, this is a marathon, not a freakin sprint. i'm currrently doing what mr. montana recommended to me four months ago, low dose, 8 weeker. man, all i have to say is - fuckin A! this is probably the best cycle i've done(200 mg prop 2x week- pinning on sun and wed, and proviron as needed, maybe once or twice a week now). i'm not holdin any water to mention, i look lean as hell, and i've put on 6-8 lbs in the last 6 weeks. i look pretty damn vascular, and the few pounds without the added water bloat makes you look even bigger. my strength is on time, and no sides.... hmm thanks nelson. BTW, my last cycle was Test 500 mg / wk, Deca 300 mg / wk, and dbol 30 mg ED wks 1 - 5, this is currently my 5th cycle, so, I have played around a little. and guess what, PCT will be fuckin easy compared to the last one, and i'll probably keep 6 or 7 lbs by the time it's over. one more thing, i've recently acquired a several time placing amature bodybuilder who's going to start coaching me with my diet and supps for a show i'd like to do, and before i say this, he's 5'10' and 245 at about 14% right now, so he's not small. he also says that a lot of your amature guys don't do half of these rediculous dosages you see on here. you try and get better gains with less gear, and that way you get quality gains that you keep. larger gains are harder for your body to adjust to, which is why you lose more of the larger gains- the cortisol response is harder with larger gains.

 

[Roc86]

^couldnt agree more. Its hilarious, when I see some of these pencil necks posting 3,4,5 drug cycles with the big guns like Test,Tren, Drol, Eq, Deca etc --> then they post pictures and they look like a highschool volleyball player that found his big brothers winny stash. Some dudes need to accept we were given genetics for a reason. If you were put on this earth a skinny narrow shouldered 160lb kid try to look like Zane ... not Cutler or Coleman. Steroids should be a tool that is used sparingly and responsibly to "improve" what youve already got ... NOT to "Create" something your not.

 

[aquatic_glories]

. i'm currrently doing what mr. montana recommended to me four months ago, low dose, 8 weeker. man, all i have to say is - fuckin A! this is probably the best cycle i've done BTW, my last cycle was Test 500 mg / wk, Deca 300 mg / wk, and dbol 30 mg ED wks 1 - 5, this is currently my 5th cycle, .

So you are saying that your 5th cycle which has the lowest doses bring you the best results???
Then there must be a problem with the previous ones.
Explain more.

Thanks

 

[bsdgeek]

So you are saying that your 5th cycle which has the lowest doses bring you the best results???
Then there must be a problem with the previous ones.
Explain more.

Thanks

No, not the best results- the best results without all the sides. No water retention, no fuckin acne, and I feel pretty stable all the time. My last cycle was great, I loved it, but this one is like I'm not taking anything at all- I'm cruising under the radar- if you will. If I gain 6 - 8 lbs in 2 months, it may look pretty normal. If I gain 20 lbs in 2 months, with water retention, and real bad acne, people around here notice. And I can't have that. For my goals, which are to gain quality muscle and look good, this cycle has done just that. And when I come off, I'll keep more of it than I have in the past. I guess you can say I'm using my gear as a supplement, sorta like a protein shake, with extra oompf.

 

[Roc86]

^this guys in it to win it. Using hormones for body enhancement is a marathon, not a race ... alot of dudes forget this and blast away until theyve done damage of some kind.

Glad to see your using responsibly with realistic and mature goals.

 

[HOOKUP]

My first cycle was a ridiculas amount of test- e and d-boll ed. I couldnt handle the sides pct was insane i was losing it. since then its been low dose cycles and ive had the best results. ex: sust 250 .33 ml eod and primo 300mg a week W/ 100mg winny eod.

 

[SMASHING MACHINE]

abused a few grams a week for about 2 years... the more i look back on it the more foolish i see it as being. i figured just because i had been abusing myself for years with those types of dosages didnt mean i had to continue. i recently starting running 500mg test W with 150mg deca EW (for a little joint support), and went back to the heavy compound lifts with caloric excess.... my gains have been as good as if not better than my 3g worth cycles. hell, what a waste of money and health that was.