Liver values climbing, not using orals...???

[d_rson]

I have blood tests about every month or so. I've been about 7 weeks post-cycle from 40mg tbol for 4 weeks. You can see my levels while on cycle, then 3 weeks PCT, and then two days ago.

I am 2 weeks off creatine, and only on 10ml Dermacrine LV and 90mg 19 Tren TFO (3 caps) daily (both non-methylated, etc.). I also do not take tylenol, etc.

Any ideas why my AST and ALT are up (GGT is normal)? My CPK is usually high due to heavy lifting I'd imagine (it's the CK Total that is high, CK-MM, CK-MB, and CK-BB are all within normal).

Please note that these are non-fasting typically, and different times during the day usually. Is AST and ALT heavily influenced by what you just ate an hour ago (like a ton of protein)?

On 11/10/2009 (during my tbol cycle)
T Bil - .6 (.3-1.0 mG/dL)
Bun – 28 (7-25 mG/dL)
Creat – 1.24 (.6 – 1.5 mG/dL)
AST – 55 (0-21 U/L)
ALT – 88 (0-56 U/L)
CPK – 998 (30-223 U/L)
Total CHOL – 175
HDL – 31
LDL – 120

On 12/28/2009 (3 weeks PCT)
T Bil - .5 (.3-1.0 mG/dL)
Bun – 32 (7-25 mG/dL)
Creat – 1.26 (.6 – 1.5 mG/dL)
AST – 21 (0-21 U/L)
ALT – 53 (0-56 U/L)
CPK – 1040 (30-223 U/L)
Total CHOL – 158
HDL – 41
LDL – 104

On 1/27/2010
3 Weeks into 10ml Dermacrine and 90mg 19 Tren TFO
T Bil - .6 (.3-1.0 mG/dL)
Bun – 33 (7-25 mG/dL)
Creat – 1.21 (.6 – 1.5 mG/dL)
AST – 57 (0-21 U/L)
ALT – 90 (0-56 U/L)
CPK – 1100 (30-223 U/L)
I also had a GGT done which was within normal

 

[RADAR]

Tbol will do it.


RADAR

 

[d_rson]

Tbol will do it.


RADAR

Hey RADAR. Actually, my levels were *dropping* after tbol. Note 3 weeks after tbol they had dropped to high normal. Now they are going back up, and I've been off tbol for 7+ weeks now. In other words, they are going up recently after going down in PCT.

 

[jokerswild]

what were your 1/27 hdl/ldl #'s?

 

[d_rson]

what were your 1/27 hdl/ldl #'s?

They were good, I got the numbers over the phone and didn't get the Cholesterol levels. HDL was a little higher and LDL was a little lower.

 

[jokerswild]

Maybe fatty liver???

 

[myophil]

dont worry unless LFT's are three times normal value.

 

[RADAR]

^ Yeah! Alot of reasons come it play here,not drinking enough water,not taking cranberry extract,a Mulit vit/mineral will help.but it is long term ,i believe everyone should be taking one 1-am....1pm\\
RADAR

 

[d_rson]

Well, all other values are normal. They did a Hep A,B,C, all negative. I'm pretty sure the CPK is from heavy lifting (and my high ankle sprain could be contributing). I am mostly concerned with my Liver values, but I honestly think it has to do with something very short term like what I ate right before the test. I have also read that AST and ALT can be inflated due to exercise as well - I had a pretty heavy chest workout the evening before.

I'm into PCT right now, starting SARMS and Sustain Alpha, so I'm going to go light at the gym, and cut my protein and supps down for this week, and not eat before my test this friday (retest) - if I see a marked improvement, I won't worry about it at all. If I don't see any change, I might investigate some more before I think about rolling into my Test E cycle...

 

[metalfujimi]

If Im not mistaken, wont the tren tfo cause your liver vaules to jump? even though its not methylated, I would imagine its pretty harsh on your liver

 

[d_rson]

If Im not mistaken, wont the tren tfo cause your liver vaules to jump? even though its not methylated, I would imagine its pretty harsh on your liver

Not sure, could be a combo or slight liver stress, high protein right before, kidney stress (which can lead to high ALT), and muscle stress. Too many variables I guess. That's why I'm thinking this week hiatus from 1) orals, 2) most supps, 3) low protein, and 4) low, low intensity workouts should help rule this out. Hoping I go in on Friday and the levels have dropped. Then I'll be pretty certain it's one or a combination of the above.

 

[metalfujimi]

Not sure, could be a combo or slight liver stress, high protein right before, kidney stress (which can lead to high ALT), and muscle stress. Too many variables I guess. That's why I'm thinking this week hiatus from 1) orals, 2) most supps, 3) low protein, and 4) low, low intensity workouts should help rule this out. Hoping I go in on Friday and the levels have dropped. Then I'll be pretty certain it's one or a combination of the above.

sounds like a plan but definately stay away from any oral if you want low liver values. I was taking quite a bit of advil, and my values were almost twice as high as usual. AST was 56 and ALT was 47. Any oral chemical puts some stress on the liver

 

[jesse_01]

If you got blood work done after you lifted it will affect your numbers. My numbers went up 10-15 points when I had lifted 12hrs earlier.

 

[d_rson]

I haven't worked out since last week, have cut my protein back, and will be going back in for another test Thursday morning fasting. We'll see where they are at that time.

 

[cougar8]

From the looks of all your values in general you look dehydrated. It would be nice to have a CBC to add to this picture. Kidney stress due to the Tren can cause elevation in your liver values but by then you would definitely be having signs and symptoms of kidney problems. Honestly, I think its only minimally raised and mostly due to heavy protein, dehydration and training. But I would never discourage a patient from training due to a slight elevation in AST ALT (IMO). Keep up the good work and relax...your liver is fine. Oh and CPK is from training. A urinalysis and chem 7 would help out in this differential.

 

[glennds]

first thing that came to my mind was tren when you posted your liver enzymes were elevated. doesnt appear yuo are on though. whatever is causing your elevated enzymes best top address right away. you DONT mess with your liver. you only have one of them.

 

[d_rson]

Okay, results in.

CPK dropped to 268 after 10 days off, so CPK was definitely workout induced. AST dropped 10 points and ALT is about the same. However, the rheumatologist is CERTAIN the AST and ALT values are muscle AST and ALT and not liver. Dr indicated that muscle AST and ALT take some time to rise and some time to fall, so 10 days off isn't enough to see it. Dr said it has been seen that these values rise a week into an off week for an intense body builder so you can actually see these values rise while your not working out. And they decline slowly as well. She was not worried at all about my liver.

She also cleared me to continue working out intensely.