kung fu....why bother?

[Jacob Creutzfeldt]

Really,????

Tell that to Dan Inosanto, PAul Vunak, Larry Hartsell.(JKD)
Tell it to Cicoy Canete, Tony Diego,Mark Wiley. (KALI/ESCRIMA)
Tell it to William Cheung, Jimmy Woo,Doc Fai Wong. (Kung FU)
Tell it to Hee il Choi, Jhoon Rhee ( TKD)
Tell it to Matsuma, the late JIgoro Kano. ( Okninawan Karate)
Tell it to Jean Yves Theriault, Don Wilson.(Kickboxing)

ALL OF WHOM credit their basis in martial arts to Chinese kung fu.

You do understand the "ART" part of martial arts???
Kung fu if not a valuable "street tool"(i disagree) is still the most beautiful and artful.

Don't bother with your reply" I'm talking about what works in a fight"
Christ, in that case forget any martial art....I'll take a gun.

Train in it before you speak to it.

If Kung-Fu is so effective for their persuit, why did they change arts and dedicate their lives to promoting the new art over kung-fu?

Truthfully kung-fu is translates roughly as 'hard training' in some chinese dialect. It is an umbrella term used to describe any chinese martial art, thus encompases many different stylistically unrelated arts. I would not think anyone with martial art experience or even a casual observer would think San-Shou kickboxing is stylistically similar to tai chi, yet they both fall under the umbrella term 'Kung-fu'.

To answer the original question posted, their are probably many answers as evidenced by the fact that Kung Fu is practiced by hordes of people. Some people may be in it for love of the art itself and not strictly combat or self defense. Others may use it as a social outlet, the art being secondary. Others may truly believe that it is an effective combat system. I would recommend asking practitioners as I'm sure the answers are quite varied.

 

[Spanky11]

If Kung-Fu is so effective for their persuit, why did they change arts and dedicate their lives to promoting the new art over kung-fu?

Truthfully kung-fu is translates roughly as 'hard training' in some chinese dialect. It is an umbrella term used to describe any chinese martial art, thus encompases many different stylistically unrelated arts. I would not think anyone with martial art experience or even a casual observer would think San-Shou kickboxing is stylistically similar to tai chi, yet they both fall under the umbrella term 'Kung-fu'.

To answer the original question posted, their are probably many answers as evidenced by the fact that Kung Fu is practiced by hordes of people. Some people may be in it for love of the art itself and not strictly combat or self defense. Others may use it as a social outlet, the art being secondary. Others may truly believe that it is an effective combat system. I would recommend asking practitioners as I'm sure the answers are quite varied.

good post.

 

[Djimbe]

I would not think anyone with martial art experience or even a casual observer would think San-Shou kickboxing is stylistically similar to tai chi, yet they both fall under the umbrella term 'Kung-fu'.

This is a common Misconception . "San Da/San Shou" are RULESETS , not SYSTEMS . In fact one of the best San Da fighters that was sent over to Thailand by china was , in fact , a Taijiquan stylist himself .

 

[Djimbe]

You almost earned some respect as a knowledgeable martial artist, until I read those last last 3 sentences.

So did you before you started Style-Whoring .

Kyokushin is a full contact style of karate. Most of the top and past K1 fighters had their grounding in it.

So what youre BASICALLY saying is that the Promoters travel in the same social circles ? Or even that the same Ppl promote both styles of event in Japan ? Because who gts into an Event is FAR more about who you know than it is about Talent or Skill level . And exiting Fights arent about having the two best Fighters Matched up , its about having two ppl that nearly cancell each other out for whatever reason fighting . Watching two SUCKY fighters is just as fun , so long as they both suck equally .

It is certainly not Shotokan, and no real deep stances are ever used. The hands are always up around the head - just like in kickboxing, to be ready to block the round house kicks that are aimed at your head, or knees.

are you kidding me ? Did you just say that the best way to defend your knees with your hands is to keep them by your head ? Did you READ that to yourself before you Posted ?

Like I keep saying, go to kazaa and download the clip. Here's how to find it:

Go into Kazaa, hit the search button, and type in "kyokushin" in the "all" section, not just the video section.

a file will pop up that is 52, 936KB long called "Kyokushinkai vs Kung Fu", the artist is Alan do Nascimento.

Now to the meat of it .

You know of a good Kyoku school that beat up a bad "kung Fu' (whatever THAT means this week) school . Therefore ALL Chinese Martial Arts MUST suck , right ?

Thats the dumbest excuse for "Logic" EVAR .

And the fact that you know something about the GOOD school isnt enough . What do you know about the BAD one ? Like I said , Good Fights are set up by finding ppl of equal level , and its OBVIOUS that the training isnt of Equal levels here . And the fact that some Idiots that SUCK were the ones talking smack is truly Irrelevant . its no reflection on the THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of Hardworking CMA practitioners that Do The Work and keep their Mouths shut .

Many of whom could wipe the floor with your Kyokushin buddy without breaking a sweat .

Fighter > Training > Style .

 

[Judo Tom]

does kyokushin karate have submissions/chokes/armbars or ground fighting?

do you guys practice clinches and takedowns/throws at all?

when you 'spar' is it standing work only or standing and groundwork and what distances do you utilize more?

sorry for all the questions just curious

and kung fu is not worthless. maybe you havent trained or met the right people to help you in that art yet.

good luck

 

[Kane Fan]

does kyokushin karate have submissions/chokes/armbars or ground fighting?

do you guys practice clinches and takedowns/throws at all?

when you 'spar' is it standing work only or standing and groundwork and what distances do you utilize more?

sorry for all the questions just curious

and kung fu is not worthless. maybe you havent trained or met the right people to help you in that art yet.

good luck

I agree, even tho TKD is not a groundfighting style that dosn't mean you can't go to a TKD school where the teacher also has experience in a groundfighting art such as BJJ or Judo or whathaveyou that he also throws in to his classes
it's the same with KungFu etc
but I'd still want to try that Bear Style Kung Fu just to say I had done it cus I like Bears so much : o )
and I think SnakeStyle would help with handspeed so even if you couldn't use any of the techniques in a match/fight (and I think every style has at least afew usefull attacks)

 

[Jacob Creutzfeldt]

This is a common Misconception . "San Da/San Shou" are RULESETS , not SYSTEMS . In fact one of the best San Da fighters that was sent over to Thailand by china was , in fact , a Taijiquan stylist himself .

The techniques used in the San Shou ruleset must be rooted in a Chinese martial art or how would they be learned? Perhaps fighters in the San Shou ruleset come from varied chinese disciplines, but they generally will use the most effective techniques that can be displayed in the ruleset from their art. In the end they are using what they train and applying it to the ruleset to create an 'art with rules'.

 

[Djimbe]

The techniques used in the San Shou ruleset must be rooted in a Chinese martial art or how would they be learned? Perhaps fighters in the San Shou ruleset come from varied chinese disciplines, but they generally will use the most effective techniques that can be displayed in the ruleset from their art. In the end they are using what they train and applying it to the ruleset to create an 'art with rules'.

let me try to relate it to the more popular current trend ...

just like in Modern MMA rules a guy could be a boxer , or a wrestelr , or a BJJ stylist , the San Shou RULES fighter MIGHT be from Taijiquan , Wing Chun , Mantis , Xingyiquan or Baguazhang . They will all still have to wear the Gloves , be restricted to so many Sec on the ground , be allowed to Throw , etc . but their techniques , strategem footwork , etc will all come from their respective arts . do you understand my meaning now ?

 

[Jacob Creutzfeldt]

let me try to relate it to the more popular current trend ...

just like in Modern MMA rules a guy could be a boxer , or a wrestelr , or a BJJ stylist , the San Shou RULES fighter MIGHT be from Taijiquan , Wing Chun , Mantis , Xingyiquan or Baguazhang . They will all still have to wear the Gloves , be restricted to so many Sec on the ground , be allowed to Throw , etc . but their techniques , strategem footwork , etc will all come from their respective arts . do you understand my meaning now ?

I understood your point from the get go. So if someone competes and trains strictly in San Shou for San Shou they must have no style to claim as there own? The sport develops a style in this case and the style doesn't develop the sport. I would call modern MMA a style. Because there is a formalized judging and scoring process doesn't make something not a style. Judo is a style, but has loads of rules attached.

 

[Spanky11]

So did you before you started Style-Whoring .




So what youre BASICALLY saying is that the Promoters travel in the same social circles ? Or even that the same Ppl promote both styles of event in Japan ? Because who gts into an Event is FAR more about who you know than it is about Talent or Skill level . And exiting Fights arent about having the two best Fighters Matched up , its about having two ppl that nearly cancell each other out for whatever reason fighting . Watching two SUCKY fighters is just as fun , so long as they both suck equally .



are you kidding me ? Did you just say that the best way to defend your knees with your hands is to keep them by your head ? Did you READ that to yourself before you Posted ?



Now to the meat of it .

You know of a good Kyoku school that beat up a bad "kung Fu' (whatever THAT means this week) school . Therefore ALL Chinese Martial Arts MUST suck , right ?

Thats the dumbest excuse for "Logic" EVAR .

And the fact that you know something about the GOOD school isnt enough . What do you know about the BAD one ? Like I said , Good Fights are set up by finding ppl of equal level , and its OBVIOUS that the training isnt of Equal levels here . And the fact that some Idiots that SUCK were the ones talking smack is truly Irrelevant . its no reflection on the THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of Hardworking CMA practitioners that Do The Work and keep their Mouths shut .

Many of whom could wipe the floor with your Kyokushin buddy without breaking a sweat .

Fighter > Training > Style .

oh dear...what have I started here? I could pull apart your post, like you did mine, but I really couldn't be bothered. Check out the video, and see it for what its worth - a laugh at traditional martial arts against a more modern style.

As for your quote - "Many of whom could wipe the floor with your Kyokushin buddy without breaking a sweat ". Look around for any info on Akira Masuda. He is the real deal.