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Just got T levels back
- Thread starter easy
- Start date
DTOX,
I should have said in my reply $70 was for the 100mg/ml.and its prob closer to $50.You are right the cheapest you can get the
200mg/ml is around $94.and that would last more like 5 months @ 100mg wk.
I called 2 online HRT clinics and they both recommended the 3 month cycles.that was based on 200mg depo-test a wk for a year.I think they are trying to say that much test might shut you down for good if done for a long time.I wasnt sure myself.
got a case of big thumbs on that last reply
I should have said in my reply $70 was for the 100mg/ml.and its prob closer to $50.You are right the cheapest you can get the
200mg/ml is around $94.and that would last more like 5 months @ 100mg wk.
I called 2 online HRT clinics and they both recommended the 3 month cycles.that was based on 200mg depo-test a wk for a year.I think they are trying to say that much test might shut you down for good if done for a long time.I wasnt sure myself.
got a case of big thumbs on that last reply
DTOX
New member
That 200mg/wk is a tad surprising...
Though I will say that I believe most (all?) HRT docs prefer to keep testosterone right there at the top (800-1200 ng/dl) instead of merely bringing levels up to normal. Perhaps that is why they told you 200mg/wk instead of the "usual" 100mg/wk.
Even with 200mg/wk I don't think that will cause total supression (just the 50% I had quoted before). Regardless it might be a good idea to do HCG+Clomid every 3 months just to kickstart the testicles into overdrive for awhile.
I'm coming off my front-loading of 200mg/wk and I've got a month at 100mg/wk before I get my levels tested again. It should be interesting to see what they are.
Though I will say that I believe most (all?) HRT docs prefer to keep testosterone right there at the top (800-1200 ng/dl) instead of merely bringing levels up to normal. Perhaps that is why they told you 200mg/wk instead of the "usual" 100mg/wk.
Even with 200mg/wk I don't think that will cause total supression (just the 50% I had quoted before). Regardless it might be a good idea to do HCG+Clomid every 3 months just to kickstart the testicles into overdrive for awhile.
I'm coming off my front-loading of 200mg/wk and I've got a month at 100mg/wk before I get my levels tested again. It should be interesting to see what they are.
easy
Active member
GoinDeep said:
Knew you were GoinDeep enough to keep her strait. I thin my ins will pay if I can ever get my Docs office to get off their ass and call them. It's like pulling teeth to get them to do anything. The only good part about it is they will give me the shots until my ins picks it up so I'm getting free test. Might not mind if they never get it right.
Dieman : where are you getting your script filled so cheap? Walgreens is expensive as a motha...
easy,
you can get it at www.riteaid.com
100mg/ml 10mls =49.95 200mg/ml 10mls=89.95 and you need to xfer your script or have doc call it in.
I am a little late to the discussion.
I finally had my PCP check my testosterone levels the other week and they came back at 325ng/dL. I've never used AAS and I'm 20. She says this is in the normal range and even refuses to send me to get a more thorough blood test including free and unbound test, LH, FSH, estradiol... because "you don't need it."
I believe I need a referral from my PCP to the endo to get it covered by insurance. So I was wondering if anyone knows of a doctor in New York City that doesn't have their head up their ass.
Also I was wondering... when the insurance ends up covering it, doesn't that meant that they are likely to deny renewing your contract once they see you as more of a "risk"? Say you end up changing employers or something...
I finally had my PCP check my testosterone levels the other week and they came back at 325ng/dL. I've never used AAS and I'm 20. She says this is in the normal range and even refuses to send me to get a more thorough blood test including free and unbound test, LH, FSH, estradiol... because "you don't need it."
I believe I need a referral from my PCP to the endo to get it covered by insurance. So I was wondering if anyone knows of a doctor in New York City that doesn't have their head up their ass.
Also I was wondering... when the insurance ends up covering it, doesn't that meant that they are likely to deny renewing your contract once they see you as more of a "risk"? Say you end up changing employers or something...
DTOX
New member
rad said:
Unfortunately this is very typical. You're at the extreme low end of the "normal" range. Obviously this is way too goddamn low for a 20 year old, but most doctors don't give a shit.
I was basically in the same boat, but I convinced my doctor to give me a "followup" test in 6 months and then proceeded to do everything I possible could to lower my testosterone for the test. The 2nd test I was rock-bottom and have since been on HRT.
gunner44
New member
easy said:
BRO THAT SUCKS, BUT THAT IS HOW IT IS !!
I am in the same boat. My doc has watched my blood tests bounce all over the fucking place, but if it is within the range, thay wont want to help you.
You have to decide if your quality of life will be improved enough to deal with the risks, including the fact that you are now being FORCED by our fucked up medical community to ILLEGALLY treat your own condition.
Bro, I feel for you. I have decided to go on HRT 100mg e 5 days for 6 months and see where it lands me.
Question for nelson:
Nelson have you been able to see the effect of proviron use on your free test levels ?
When I had my blood work done RIGHT after my last cycle, I was at 244 total test and 75 on free test. The doc acted really confused because the Free % ratio was WAY too high. I was only on proviron 25mg at the time.
How do you feel about adding proviron to a HRT program? Is it worth it ?
easy
Active member
gunner44 said:
I went to s different Endo And was tested in the low 100's. It's somwhere in this thread. Anyway, Been on HRT since July and life is back to normal. I think everybody should request to have their test levels checked at their anual physical. No point in suffering if you don't have to.
A
Ashamed
Guest
My last test for natural test levels revealed me to be off the scale i.e. greater than high normal. I don't know if my use of just 5mg every 2 days or so of nolvadex for about 6 months contributed to this pleasingly high level. I had been off for about 8 months when i had this test done, and just decided to keep taking a bit of nolv' here and there.
Word of Advice! HRT is a life long decision. It is NOT something you just want to try out like a couple AAS Cycle. You can't stop.
My Story, I was 33 when I started feeling the effects of low test now that I look back. But at the time I never thought that anything was really wrong, just that I wasn't a teenager any longer. The only thing that drove me to the Endocrinologist was that it was slowly taking WAYYY too long for me to hit the big O and with increasingly frequency I would even loose the wood during sex. Drove my wife nuts until she wouldn't even do it any more. She said I was way to focused on trying to spit. Viagra helped a little but it was no cure. It still took forever for me to spit. I had to do something, ANYTHING, it was not good, LIFE SUCKED (especially cuz I was always horny as hell)
Anways when I was tested (several times) and I was on the very very very low side naturally (I had never cycled before)
FREE Test was 15.7 range is 47 - 244 pg/mL
TOTAL Test was 109 range is 241 - 827 NG/DL.
I have been on HRT for over a couple years now, and life is GRAND. I currenlty take 200 /week. I get tested every 3 months and more often if I change dosage. I would say that unless you were as low as I was, 100 /5-7 days is the absolute highest the doc will allow you to go. (they like an every 2 week schedule and vary the dosage, but I was getting mood swings)
I can only echo what many of the others that have DONE HRT have said about it. More is not better it is actually worse. I have taken more during an off cycle and it does not give you any more gains, it doesn't keep your gains from a cycle any longer and it KILLS your libido.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Oh and my Insurance pays for every other med under the sun and they won't cover my Delatestryl either. $109 /5 weeks, but it is worth the alternative.
My Story, I was 33 when I started feeling the effects of low test now that I look back. But at the time I never thought that anything was really wrong, just that I wasn't a teenager any longer. The only thing that drove me to the Endocrinologist was that it was slowly taking WAYYY too long for me to hit the big O and with increasingly frequency I would even loose the wood during sex. Drove my wife nuts until she wouldn't even do it any more. She said I was way to focused on trying to spit. Viagra helped a little but it was no cure. It still took forever for me to spit. I had to do something, ANYTHING, it was not good, LIFE SUCKED (especially cuz I was always horny as hell)
Anways when I was tested (several times) and I was on the very very very low side naturally (I had never cycled before)
FREE Test was 15.7 range is 47 - 244 pg/mL
TOTAL Test was 109 range is 241 - 827 NG/DL.
I have been on HRT for over a couple years now, and life is GRAND. I currenlty take 200 /week. I get tested every 3 months and more often if I change dosage. I would say that unless you were as low as I was, 100 /5-7 days is the absolute highest the doc will allow you to go. (they like an every 2 week schedule and vary the dosage, but I was getting mood swings)
I can only echo what many of the others that have DONE HRT have said about it. More is not better it is actually worse. I have taken more during an off cycle and it does not give you any more gains, it doesn't keep your gains from a cycle any longer and it KILLS your libido.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Oh and my Insurance pays for every other med under the sun and they won't cover my Delatestryl either. $109 /5 weeks, but it is worth the alternative.
twistedneck
New member
I'm new to this thread but I just wanted to add that I got my total test done a few weeks ago - came back at 360. I have very low libido and most of the other typical andropause sides.. Being that i'm at 360 what the hell can i do?
Should i just ask my doc to refer me straight to an endo? or should i just stick with him. he doesn't know shit, i asked him what the normal range was and he sputtered... uhhh 200 to 1700, nice.
he told me to lift weights and get more sleep.
Should i just ask my doc to refer me straight to an endo? or should i just stick with him. he doesn't know shit, i asked him what the normal range was and he sputtered... uhhh 200 to 1700, nice.
he told me to lift weights and get more sleep.
Just thought I would chime in with my test results. I'm 30 years old:
Here is old T levels:
Free Testosterone 19.6. Ref range 19.0-94 PMOL/L
Total Testosterone 7.4 . Ref range 6.0-30 PMOL/L.
Here is new T levels, 1 day after 3rd shot 100 mg Delatestryl
Free Testosterone 79.6 Ref range 19-94 PMOL/L
Total Testostereone 24.3. Ref range 6.0-30 PMOL/L
Sex drive is up, memory and concentration is better and I feel pumped! Thank god for Dr. prescribed test!
I started HCG after this blood test, next test will be with HCG!
Here is old T levels:
Free Testosterone 19.6. Ref range 19.0-94 PMOL/L
Total Testosterone 7.4 . Ref range 6.0-30 PMOL/L.
Here is new T levels, 1 day after 3rd shot 100 mg Delatestryl
Free Testosterone 79.6 Ref range 19-94 PMOL/L
Total Testostereone 24.3. Ref range 6.0-30 PMOL/L
Sex drive is up, memory and concentration is better and I feel pumped! Thank god for Dr. prescribed test!
I started HCG after this blood test, next test will be with HCG!
twistedneck
New member
There are a few doc's over at cutting edge muscle, check out the hrt forum here too..
I'm 36 and had my T levels checked recently, it came back 206. I have never used AAS either. My doc gave me an RX for the test patch Androderm 5mg. I will start it Saturday and have another blood test in a month to see what my levels are. Oh, and I have not had a Vasectomy either.
I was trying for that but she said it was a big hassle etc. I will see what happens, maybe i will be able to talk her into it later.
twistedneck
New member
Do the shots bro.. 80 to 100mg evey 5 days.. seems to be the way to hit hi normal. As long as you don't go over high normal you shouldn't have any permanent supression if you decide to come off... That's my plan anyway.
gunner44
New member
I have to say that it is only wishfull thinking when you say you can take 80-100 mg e 5 days without permenant shutdown.
I just started a HRT cycle, and as usual, my nuts began to shrink after only 3 weeks at 100mg e5d.
I think that the human body does not want to see any more test than it is producing naturally, even if your nat production is as low as 200.
My test at the time had dropped back down to 277 after being as high as 800 while on nolvadex.
You would think that my body wouldnt want to shut down at that level, but it did.
When it comes to atrophy, i dont think that dosage really maters at all. If you shut down, then it doesnt matter if it is from 100 mg weekly or 1000mg e5d. I know that lipids/chlosterol profile go down hill real fast after 500-600mg of test weekly, so why not do HRT with 300-400 weekly so long as your Blood Pressure and HDL/LDL are ok why the hell not?
I just started a HRT cycle, and as usual, my nuts began to shrink after only 3 weeks at 100mg e5d.
I think that the human body does not want to see any more test than it is producing naturally, even if your nat production is as low as 200.
My test at the time had dropped back down to 277 after being as high as 800 while on nolvadex.
You would think that my body wouldnt want to shut down at that level, but it did.
When it comes to atrophy, i dont think that dosage really maters at all. If you shut down, then it doesnt matter if it is from 100 mg weekly or 1000mg e5d. I know that lipids/chlosterol profile go down hill real fast after 500-600mg of test weekly, so why not do HRT with 300-400 weekly so long as your Blood Pressure and HDL/LDL are ok why the hell not?
In regards to getting the injections from the doctor, she stated it would be once a month or even once every two months.
Not sure if that is a great idea Hollowman. Granted I am a complete newbie, but it is my understanding that injections make their way into the bloodstream pretty quickly, so there will not be a good constant supply of test, i.e. you will feel great after the shots, but it will taper down until your next shot. Most people recommend a shot a week or every two weeks. That is one reason why people like Androgel or Testim, it simulates that body's natural production, so you have a constant supply of Test.
I hear ya bro, the frequency was what the doctor said. I just responded to Twistedneck's respone that said every 5 days when my Dr said every month or every other month. If my Dr said every 5 days I would have pushed for it.
twistedneck
New member
gunnar44 wrote,
Bro you really made me think. I read your story and am chaning my mind - maybe I was being wishful. good comment.
Random987 wrote,
Random is right about daily androgel resulting in more even test levels, but what if you forget to wipe it off your hand and get that shit on your kid or your GF and she starts growning a beard or getting a huge clit?? lol. I guess the patch is better or the new gum stuff, but i've heard if you really need to get past like mid level test than inj. is the way.
Random, how does Androgel or Testim simulate the natural production more? btw, many HRT docs recomend weekly injections because the dose tapers off so much with ever two weeks on cyp or enanthate.
Bro you really made me think. I read your story and am chaning my mind - maybe I was being wishful. good comment.
Random987 wrote,
Random is right about daily androgel resulting in more even test levels, but what if you forget to wipe it off your hand and get that shit on your kid or your GF and she starts growning a beard or getting a huge clit?? lol. I guess the patch is better or the new gum stuff, but i've heard if you really need to get past like mid level test than inj. is the way.
Random, how does Androgel or Testim simulate the natural production more? btw, many HRT docs recomend weekly injections because the dose tapers off so much with ever two weeks on cyp or enanthate.
prozoo
New member
I'm currently on HRT @ 200 mg per week of IM injection. my original test came back @ 212ng.. Prior to injectable I was on "compounded" Test cream (37.5 mg 2 times per day) from my pharmacy. Both have normalized my system so to speak, as far as libido, levels, & energy etc. The only advantage to the cream (2 times per day)I felt, was a steady influx of test per day versus a highly elevated level for the first couple of days with injectable.
My concern is permanent shot down of my HPTA. I use HCG and a clomid/ teslac/ nolva type combo to restart things... Is there any way to prevent permanent shutdown, or being on HRT permanently?
My concern is permanent shot down of my HPTA. I use HCG and a clomid/ teslac/ nolva type combo to restart things... Is there any way to prevent permanent shutdown, or being on HRT permanently?
It doesn't stimulate the natural production, I think you need HCG for that to occur. It does "mimic" natural production more as it provides the testosterone to your system more in line with what your body is supposed to do.
I am more worried about a complete shutdown that will affect fertility somewhere down the road.
I am more worried about a complete shutdown that will affect fertility somewhere down the road.
twistedneck said:
gunner44
New member
I dont think that there is any way to avoid being shut down when on HRT. I would fair a guess that over the comming years, HRT will become popular, however, the risks associated with it may be worse than everyone wants to beleive right now.
I would hate to find out that long term usage and prollonged shutdown and atrophy of the testes, could posibly lead to testicular cancer. In my mind, when an organ like the testes shuts down, or malfunctions, there could possibly be a risk.
Think about this, do people have thyroid tumors because their thyroid shut down, or was it the tumor that shut it down in the first place?
I would like to think that the idea of cycling would be used with HRT to let the body "recover" on a regular basis, say maybe 3-4 months out of each year. I just dont like the idea of the entire HPTA system basically being shut down for years or decades. I just fear that it may create more serious problems like disease of the HPTA glands over time.
Anybody else just a little nervous about HRT and the long term picture? Sure it solves the immediate problems associated with all of the low test issues but what if?
I would hate to find out that long term usage and prollonged shutdown and atrophy of the testes, could posibly lead to testicular cancer. In my mind, when an organ like the testes shuts down, or malfunctions, there could possibly be a risk.
Think about this, do people have thyroid tumors because their thyroid shut down, or was it the tumor that shut it down in the first place?
I would like to think that the idea of cycling would be used with HRT to let the body "recover" on a regular basis, say maybe 3-4 months out of each year. I just dont like the idea of the entire HPTA system basically being shut down for years or decades. I just fear that it may create more serious problems like disease of the HPTA glands over time.
Anybody else just a little nervous about HRT and the long term picture? Sure it solves the immediate problems associated with all of the low test issues but what if?
gunner44
New member
prozoo said:
I would agree that this is the best approach.
I dont think a person, especially a juice head, should just except HRT as being safe. Shit, us juice heads fucking KNOW BETTER. We ALL know what HPTA shutdown is all about,where the average 30-40 something Joe who gets a hair up his about "male hormone replacement" or some other "life extension" bullshit really cant appreciate.
I dont care what anyone else thinks, to me HRT is just another form of juicing,albeit perscribed by a doctor. Shit, how many doctors really know what they are doing when the perscribe ANY form of therapy these days.
I dont know how many fucking times I have looked at a doc when he or she had no clue what the hell they were talking about.
Dont think for a second the average Endocrinologist really has a true appreciation for any type of hormone therapy, be it for male or female. THere is just WAAAAAYY too much shit that isnt totally understood when it comes to the advantages and side effects of HRT.
I say go with what you know. And everything I have learned and know if from cycling steroids the BBing way. What we need to remember here, is that what seems old school and out dated as far as bodybuilding goes, is still WAYYY ahead of the medical community.
But hey, we already knew that right?!
easy
Active member
gunner44 said:
I hear you about Docs somtimes not having a clue. I asked my endo about splitting his 200mg/e2wks into 100mgs/e5days to keep test levels more stable and he gave me the deer in the headlights look and said that he tells every one of his patients 200mgs/e2wks. I made the comment that none of his patients are the same and he came back with "you can do it my way or go find another Endo". WHATEVER..He's a good doc, He's just old and antiquated. The good thing about him is he's not scared of writing a script. I've got buddies who are borderline and their Docs wont think about putting them on TRT.
twistedneck
New member
Hey easy, if he would let you do your own injections you could split the dose on your own and see how you feel... but doing your own inj. its way to cutting edge for mainstream.. lol.
Ok, I have been researching TRT for a while now, and I have noticed that different people have different reactions to the various T replacement therapies, based on subjective "feel."
Some people feel that Androgel has a much better effect on libidio that injections. While others didn't even notice Androgel had an effect, while injections were wonderful. If the goal is to get the T-level to the upper high normal, how can we explain the difference in feel. For example if using Androgel gets you to 1000 ng T level and injects gets you to the same level, how can we explain the difference in feel.
Also, has anyone on this group used HCG exclusively for T replacement/stimulation? i.e. the Shippen method?
Some people feel that Androgel has a much better effect on libidio that injections. While others didn't even notice Androgel had an effect, while injections were wonderful. If the goal is to get the T-level to the upper high normal, how can we explain the difference in feel. For example if using Androgel gets you to 1000 ng T level and injects gets you to the same level, how can we explain the difference in feel.
Also, has anyone on this group used HCG exclusively for T replacement/stimulation? i.e. the Shippen method?
twistedneck
New member
This just came out today
http://www.msnbc.com/news/992469.asp?0si=-
The list prostate cancer as the main unknown..
This also just came out
http://www.msnbc.com/news/992469.asp?0si=-
The list prostate cancer as the main unknown..
This also just came out
Last edited:
bigmusclehead
New member
easy, are you saying there is a connection between vasectomy's and low test levels.i'd like to hear about spectres info on it.reason is since i had mine i have low t levels. i'm being treated for it but my endo says there's no connection to vasectomy's and low-t levels.oh and i hope the bros know the bio-available t test is the more important one not the free. regards ..bmh..
Stillgoing
New member
bigmusclehead said:
I think I said that somewhere earlier in the thread bro, and, if not on this one then on many others.
Most in the medical community will say the exact same thing your doc said. No way there is an effect on T levels with a vasectomy. From a logical perspective, you would agree: you snipped a tube that runs the sperm, thats it.
Counter is: the HPTA and that whole area is a very complex machine. Lord only knows what you really do when you make that cut.
So, lets look at the facts: 3x more men that are hypogonadal have had vasectomies than not.
Stillgoing
New member
Random987 said:
I'm sure some try it and I believe studies have shown it ok to use over the long-term, but, lord, what a crappy way to live; on that shit all the time.
bigmusclehead
New member
would it make any sense to use a product to increase free t while on hrt to take advantage of the exogenous steriod,and would proviron be such a product.
easy
Active member
bigmusclehead said:
I know there is a connection b/c I was fine before I had my vasectomy. Stillgoing was the bro who turned me on to the idea that it could have been my vasectomy that had me feeling like shit. Sure enough, like him I was also a victim. Oh well, atleast now when the big cycle comes it will be legal.
bump on this thread
just received my Test results and, after being on 10g of Androgel for 4 weeks, my overall T is 818 and my E2 is <32 (0-51). Now, I really don't "feel" better? My Dr. gave me the option to try Test Cyp shots. Now, I know people on this group have stated that AG didn't work for them. Now, was this because it didn't get their levels high enough or that they just didn't experience any "benefits" from it. If it didn't get their levels high enough, then I am not sure if there is any benefit to changing the method of delivery. However, if there is just a different "feel" in the other methods of delivery, then that may be something to try.
just received my Test results and, after being on 10g of Androgel for 4 weeks, my overall T is 818 and my E2 is <32 (0-51). Now, I really don't "feel" better? My Dr. gave me the option to try Test Cyp shots. Now, I know people on this group have stated that AG didn't work for them. Now, was this because it didn't get their levels high enough or that they just didn't experience any "benefits" from it. If it didn't get their levels high enough, then I am not sure if there is any benefit to changing the method of delivery. However, if there is just a different "feel" in the other methods of delivery, then that may be something to try.
easy
Active member
I can't say bro as I've always had cyp. I can only attest to the fact that before HRT I was a lethargic waste of space. I was moody and unable to gain no matter what I ate or how much rest I got. Now, I feel like I did before my vasectomy. I'm holding muscle and don't have the mood swings. All I can say is try cyp. My life is better for it.
Well there is no way I'm gonna get a vasectomy now, not that I wanted to anyway, but damn!
CLOMIDCLOWN
New member
DTOX....
I read a post of yours saying you tried everything possible to lower your testosterone before blood work.... what did you do? I ask becuase i have a test for total test, estradiol ect coming up.
I read a post of yours saying you tried everything possible to lower your testosterone before blood work.... what did you do? I ask becuase i have a test for total test, estradiol ect coming up.
bigmusclehead
New member
according to my urologist theres no conclusive evidence to support any relation between vasectomies and possible affinity to prostate cancer.Nelson Montana said:
