Is being over 220lbs achievable without steroids? Please read

[moya]

Agreed 100% with calling the top strongman competitors athletic.

Powerlifters, however, are not.

come on now... some lighter weight-class powerlifters are VERY athletic... myself included, and i was invited to the olympia for the deadlift-only event... im not sure that makes me 'top level' competitor or not... but my total is months away from 'elite' status...

 

[ronki23]

many famous bodybuilders have been accused of implants and synthol use, arni was accused of it for his calves due to he had very weak calve genes and then about a year before he stood on the olympia stage he managed to almost double his calf size

some even say he went and got implants, but we can prove this becoz like most bodybuilders they keep there substance use private

oh-ok- I would'nt say Schwarzenegger got implants into his calves though-he trained them hard for a year since he saw Reg Park-doing Calf Raises with over 1000lbs/doing them with people standing on his back/shoulders. Heck, due to the volume he used, he occasionall did staggered sets for calves. But I do agree that he used steroids to assist.

Did Arnold use Esiclene-it's like synthol isn't it? Would he have had monster arms without?

phil heath is just as bad of an example, his curls are no bigger and he has some prize winning arms yet there weak as fuk

Also, I think Phil Heath has great arms/genetics-maybe the synthol primed them but I know they could get to almost 20". Before NPC, I have a copy of M&F dated 2006 and he was curling 60-80lbs.

What i'd like to know is how you spot synthol/implants in pro bodybuilders. AFAIK, it's most prominent in Silvio Samuel's arms/delts, Markus Ruhl's arms/shoulders, Naseer's upper body, Flex Wheeler's upper body and calves, Dexter Jackson's arms/shoulders and Lou Ferrigno's calves.

AFAIK, the only people who have honestly NOT used any sort of chemical assistance are Kirk Douglas and Charlton Heston-people who are NOT bodybuilders.

People have even accused Steve Reeves,John Grimek and Charles Atlas of juicing! Is there actually anyone 100% natural-heck,i've even heard Jack LaLanne was accused of taking them.

Oh yeah, this all comes back to the accuracy of the Berkhan/Butt models for genetic potential. Is Berkhan's model accurate or should I try Butt's model?

 

[jaybois]

I carry 220 easy naturally and lean and I'm 5'8 but also have great genetics that run in my family. I was 5'6 170lb in the 5th grade and not fat just quit growing for some reason.

 

[ronki23]

Don't worry,this is my last post of the thread-detailed answers'd be greatley appreci

arnold always had monster arms and the use of synthol was was very unlikely

however he always had hsit cal;ve genes, and if ur unaware this is usually something NO bodybuilder has ever been able to fix, its a big genetic flaw many guys carry

to say arnold in 1 year turned his calves into monsters with proper training is very unlikely, especially when he hadent been able to do it all his life, and then he uses a clever training regime to cover it up? sounds like he used some Esiclene to me


phil heath showed great potential in the 2005 NPC championships but u need ot realise at that stage many guys in the super heavyweight division are already using synthol, if you look at phil heath before he started a professional bodybuilding career u will see he had good arms but not the best arm genes

his rescent arnold classic show also showed a HUGE sudden improvment in his lagging back, so hes been doing something there without a doubt


improper synthol shots can be spoted since the muscle develops unnaturaly, aswell as lumps can sometimes be formed, or the muscle forms an irregular shape, sometimes muscles also appear full of water if to much synthol is injected

and of course there obvious cases like greg valentino which u dont need to be a genius to spot

Oh ok.

So what is the difference between Esiclene and Synthol-it seems to me that people are more accepting of Esiclene. I hear that Esiclene just inflames/swells the muscle you have up to a point, while you can add as much/little Synthol as you like. Am I right?
^^The reason I say this is because as soon as Schwarzenegger/Coleman/Cutler/Levrone/bodybuilding legends are accused of Synthol use, people dismiss it by saying superior genetics/Esiclene.
^^^With regards to Arnie, I think he developed his calves by a 1-2 inches in a year and must've used Esiclene to plump them up. From what I know, he only trained calves as a syntergist in squats/leg presses/deadlifts so I think that they will have grown a LOT if he suddenly started isolating the calf muscles.

and to anser ur model, DONT use any of them since itll take you YEARS to achieve close to ur genetic potential, you are worrying about something that is most likely minimum 4-5 years away if not longer

there are also many factors that come into play, you cannot determine ur genetic potential by a model, all those models are based on different studies

all these models should be considered very littly, and none of them even 80-90% accurate

train, eat and sleep properly and within a few years you will actually see where ur geneeitcs will get you, the model will not tell you your abilities

Well my lean mass is 145ish and this says I won't get more than 160-165 lean (WITHOUT water/glycogen)
^ If it takes 4-5 years then that can't be right because I added just under a pound of lean mass every week when bulking on a 5x5 ish program. Even if it's 0.5lbs a week, if I did it for a year then i'd have added 26lbs lean mass throughout the year/5-7 lbs more muscle,thus achieving/going over my genetic potential for lean mass.

What I personally would like to do is have a physique like one of the guys from the Expendables. Even if I can't get to 200lbs lean, i'd be happy either:

a)Adding 10-15lbs pure muscle
b)Getting to 180 lean
c)Being over 200lbs in overall weight

Finally, is there any 100% pure natural bodybuilder today? The only ones I know are Kirk Douglas and Charlton Heston.

Which of these did NOT use steroids?:

Eugen Sandow
Charles Atlas
John Grimek
Steve Reeves
Reg Park
Chet Yorton
Jack LaLanne
John Hansen-Natural Mr.O
Mike O'Hearn-Most popular Nattie

^I want to use non-steroided muscle men to motivate me

 

[Tblock1]

wow this is an interesting discussion. On regards to that list of who did or didnt you just posted, I don't think anyone really knows for sure.

 

[Tblock1]

Re: Don't worry,this is my last post of the thread-detailed answers'd be greatley app

Formebolone (Esiclene) Profile
^^^^^

all the pros are accused of many things, but u need to remeber at there level in bodybuilding what they use is required to acheive there levl of size, people are not born with genetics to acheiev 24 inch arms ripped to the bone, forearms thicker then there head and shoulders twice the size of there head

so these guys do require the use of all these substances, and when i say use substances i mean the demolish them lol, ive met heavy weights (not even pro bodybuilders) who use 4-5 grams of anabolics to acheiev there size along with a shitload of other stuff, to imagine wat someone like coleman is using would be intense

as for arni u need to be realistic, the calve defiecient gene isnt something bodybuilders can really overcome, and to be honest ive NEVER heard of scene a bodybuilder or person EVER bring up there calves if they have the small calve gene without some use of localised injection

arni may claim he was able to bring his calves up 1-2inches a year with special training, but u need to realise 1-2 inches a year to add on calves is MASSIVE, even guys with amazing calve genes and geared up struggle to acheieve growth like that on there calves, so for arni to do it with shitty calve genes id have to say arni pulled a dodgy and was doing some localised injections

BTW im not hating on arni, the man is a legend im just putting this out for disscusion

again ur assuming ur gains compared with a model

first you probably can get alot heavier then 165ish naturaly if ur genes arent shit and secondly muscle gains are not consistant, you will not add half a pound or a pound every week of lean muscle mass,

if it were that simple in 1 year i coudl weigh 240 pounds lean, this simply is not the case

it just doesnt work like that


muscle gains come on fast in early stages, but as you gain more the gains slow down fast so my assumption of 4-5 years of reaching genetic limit is not unrealistic

considering ur 145 pounds then it shows you have alot of growth left since you carry little muscle already, making it easy for you to gain in the early stages

alot of guys also cleaim they have reached there genetic potential before steroid use, again this is usually wrong becoz most guys have no idea what there genetic potential usually is

from personal experience when i started using steroids and discontinued them i realised my genetic limit becoz after discontinueing steroids i was able to see what level of muscle gains i could maintain permanently, ended up being about 200 pounds fairly lean (11-12%bf)

That is still pretty solid. I like your style because you focus on strength and size, and your pretty big but still strong not some huge weak kitten lol!

 

[Eric1987]

Depends on your stats

I'm 5'8"

I'm also 210 lbs pretty lean...it took me all my life to get here

but thats because im only 5'8"

Nice I'm the same height and I would LOVE to be a solid 200. I am 165 right now but I havent been to the gym in a minute.

 

[ExtraMile]

Thread of the month here

 

[the_alcatraz]

I carry 220 easy naturally and lean and I'm 5'8 but also have great genetics that run in my family. I was 5'6 170lb in the 5th grade and not fat just quit growing for some reason.

you're trying to tell me you're 5'8" and carry around 220 NATURALLY? I find that hard to believe because you say you do that easily just on genetics...

 

[ronki23]

as for arni u need to be realistic, the calve defiecient gene isnt something bodybuilders can really overcome, and to be honest ive NEVER heard of scene a bodybuilder or person EVER bring up there calves if they have the small calve gene without some use of localised injection

arni may claim he was able to bring his calves up 1-2inches a year with special training, but u need to realise 1-2 inches a year to add on calves is MASSIVE, even guys with amazing calve genes and geared up struggle to acheieve growth like that on there calves, so for arni to do it with shitty calve genes id have to say arni pulled a dodgy and was doing some localised injections

BTW im not hating on arni, the man is a legend im just putting this out for disscusion

I think 0.5-1 inch doesn't seem unrealistic-I tell you why, I added 0.5-1 inch to my calves after training them hard/specifically with high protein diet/calf isolation work/cycling (literal cycling) for 1 and a half-2 months

I think he may have pumped them with Esiclene but do you really think you're calves won't grow when you train them in isolation for the first time PROPERLY-not just 3-4 sets of Standing/Seated Calf Raises (I doubt he trained Calves at all)?

The man was doing raises with over 1000lbs! He even had people sit on his back for Donkey Raises and people stand on the Calf Raise machine. He even did lots of running/cycling for cardio and staggered sets/very high volume.

The man did high volume (multiple and staggered sets, cardio) and heavy weight (all the plates on the machine)

I think his Calves must've grew AT LEAST an inch without Esiclene/ half an inch if he didn't roid at all-if I can get over 0.5" with newb gains, i'm sure Arnie could.

But I agree the Esiclene must've been used

P.S. Why is Esiclene considered no use to an athelete? If it stretches muscle and has anabolic properties (used for kids with growth deficiencies), I think it's pretty good.
^Seems better than that disgusting Synthol