Is being over 220lbs achievable without steroids? Please read

[ronki23]

What I would like to know is if I can get to 200lbs in lean mass/add another 10-15lbs of pure muscle (not fluid)-I would like to have 20-30lbs fat throughout the year.
^^Would a 220-230lb physique be achievable with a year/year and a half of training? I would like to build it through powerlifting/Rippetoes/5X5 2 times a week and once a week i'd like to do Olympic lifting. That way i'll be big,strong and POWERFUL!

I would like to start proper bodybuilding (dedication to gym only) in 2012/2013 (if the world hasn't ended by then!!!). Atm not only do I have University but I have a year of kickboxing tournaments ahead of me and the year after, I would like to try out Judo tournaments. If i'm satisfied i'll start bodybuilding properly/if not, i'll do 2-3 MMA fights (a loooonnnnggg way of that!).
^Hopefully I should be no heavier than 190 by 2012 if I do enough martial arts

Is 220-230lbs achievable without steroids/creatine? What about 240-250 (another 5lbs pure muscle)-is that achievable?

P.S. I have Gujarati/Indian genes-they suck!

 

[glennpendlay]

For most people a lean 220lbs is pretty easy if you are near 6 feet tall if you train right. It all depends on you, and what your willing to do in the gym.

 

[the_alcatraz]

Depends on your stats

I'm 5'8"

I'm also 210 lbs pretty lean...it took me all my life to get here

but thats because im only 5'8"

 

[the_alcatraz]

LOL @ steroids / creatine...why would you put those in the same category?

 

[ronki23]

lmfao if your genes suk ull be luky to acheieve 200 pounds lean

220 pounds lean u will never achieve without steroids unless ur VERY geneticaly gifted, and even then this is a struggle

im basing this on the fact u arent taller then 5'11, obviously if your 6'4 tall then that bodyweight would be possible since ur a tall mother fuker

How can you tell the mass ceiling when you're at a certain height?

 

[ronki23]

I'll be happy to be 180-190lbs PURE lean e.g. no water. I'm just wondering how people can tell that I can only add X muscle at under 6 ft (i'm 20 years old and 5'10" btw).

Is there a link I can see regarding it?

 

[ronki23]

When I bulk, I add 1.5-2lbs a week. In 6 weeks I added 10lbs lean mass (4-6 being water), I added 2.5g fat alongside (177lbs to 189.5lbs in 6 weeks)

Genetic Potential

I would like to know if the Martin Berkhan Genetic Potential Model is a good yardstick to measure with though.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...potential.html

Height in centimeters – 100 = upper limit of weight in kilograms in contest shape (5% bodyfat,5-10lbs water weight not factored in).

It says that I will come in 165-170lbs contest shape. That means between 186.5 and 197lbs hydrated/with 15% bodyfat.

^^Never being able to get to 200lbs and lean depresses me as much as the fact i'll have less than 180lbs lean mass

 

[ExtraMile]

it depends how fat you will let yourself get too. 220 would be easy at like 15% bodyfat but 220 @ 8% bodyfat is totally differant

who cares what people say anyway if someoen tells you no you will never get to 220lbs that shouldnt mean you just give up!

 

[bblazer]

I am roughly 6' 1" @ 270 lbs and hover between 15-18% bf. If I cut, I think I could get down to 240 lbs @ 10% or less. However, that would probably cost me a shit ton of strength. In my world mass is everything too.

For example, you can take two guys who can lift equal 1RM's of any lift and one is 250 & the other is 300. When it comes time to pull a truck, the bigger guy will win out since he has more mass to move things with.

B-

 

[glennpendlay]

I'll be happy to be 180-190lbs PURE lean e.g. no water. I'm just wondering how people can tell that I can only add X muscle at under 6 ft (i'm 20 years old and 5'10" btw).

Is there a link I can see regarding it?

NO ONE can accurately tell you what your genetic potential is. NO ONE. However, it is my belief that the majority of people that are say 5'10 to 6' will probably be able to get to a lean 220 if they are willing to train right. Who knows, you might get to 240. NO one knows. But 220lbs at 5'10" is not unrealistic for most people.

 

[SouthernLord]

I hit 225 at 5"10 before even touching aas/ph's. I was sloppy, but I was big and could move above average weights around.

It all boils down to training and diet. To get big you have to eat big. Sometimes that means McD's Dollar menu and milkshakes daily depending on your activity levels, metabolism, and genetics.

I have a buddy who's 5'7" and ~235 natty. He's a beast and he's eats anything that's not bolted down. He stays consistent with his conditioning, so he's not sloppy. I would say his genetics are average at best, but he works hard as fuck. When he does decide to take the plunge into aas all the hard work he's laid down natty will help to turn him into an absolute beast.

Moral of the story is,,,, Don't sell yourself short. At your age (20) you have plenty of filling out to do if you work you ass off for it.

 

[l.jw1]

i wauldnt of tought..so...unless u r a very easey gainer still.virtualy impossible,it is hard 2 put on 20..or 30 pnds in a yr without gear..

 

[burnthiscorpse]

your body will start to change around age 25. Mine did. Muscle shapes matured (if that makes sense), and I gained about 20 lb at that point just because of muscle maturity. I'm 6'0" and was about 280 3 weeks ago before a shoulder issue slowed me down. But I am abour 20-21% BF right now.

 

[Tblock1]

well heres and example

the WORLD NATURAL BODBUILDING CHAMP, is warren clampit

hes 5'9 tall, stage weight 190 pounds, and off stage 202 lean

the point here is the the world champ of natural bodybuilding weighs about 200 pounds with 8-9%bf, and is 5'9 tall

ive personaly both met and trained with this guy and can tell you hes a beast,

so u can make the assumption that you will NEVER be able to acheive that level of bodyweight and lenness with average genetics and most likely even with gifted ones, and ti would take steroids to acheive this level


HOW TALL ARE YOU BTW?

i should also mention ive seen ALOT if notalmost EVERYONE state there stats and always underetsimate there bf%, most guys i see quote there 210 pounds with 8%bf are usually about 11%, people always try to make themselves look better over the internet

true but a lot of time people really think they are being honest. People don't realize how low 8% (with good muscle mass) really is

 

[ronki23]

I am 5'9" approx-haven't grown in height much for the last 2 years and only grew half an inch last year. I'm 20 years old.

Mike Berkhan's model says i'll get to 165-170lbs lean. I haven't tried Casey Butt's model yet.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...potential.html

I would like to have got over 200lbs lean since my personal trainer is 200lbs and is bigger than average but not huge. He's 37 and 6"

I want to look like Van Damme/HBK/Statham/Stallone

 

[ronki23]

u will never acheive this, nor will you most likely or ever acheive 200 pounds lean at your height without some form of steroid use

if your not geneticaly gifted then chances are this goal is not attainable,

and since your not even 165-170 pounds lean yet, then i can tell you u dont have the genetics to reach 200 pounds without steroids

btw the physiques u desire i can tell you 3/4 have used steroids, im not to sure about one

I hope you don't think i'm trolling but I want to know how it can work for SouthernLord and his friend-is it because of their genes/creatine usage?

Is there any bodybuilders/muscular looking people under 180lbs?

I know Matt Hughes,Manny Pacquiao and these 2 weigh that much

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/content/Image/11-04-2009/Under-armour.jpg

http://blog.soldoutticketmarket.com/wp-content/uploads/Floyd-Mayweather-5.jpg

Actually, I wanted to ask, if I weigh less than 150lbs lean when dehydrated, how come these guys still appear larger than me? They're almost certainly stronger than me.

My biceps are only 13" on rhs,13.5 lhs and my chest is only 40". My shoulders are 18" though.

Is there any other good looking people under 180lbs that compete in bodybuilding/pro wrestling?

 

[the_alcatraz]

dude, the genetic potential model takes into consideration average genetics, so for example people like Arnold and Dorian Yates don't count.

 

[twenty47]

that link posted says for someone 6 foot they wont ever get over 196 lbs lbm. im over that right now at 21 years old and i feel like i can put on way more.

it said what about the mega athletes that are 280 lbs huge. and it said they have like 30 percent body fat so that puts them back at 196.

what fucking athletes have 30 percent body fat is that a joke?

Im pretty sure i have better then average genetics but there are so many people i see on a daily basis bigger and leaner then me and they cant all have used aas.

end rant.

 

[the_alcatraz]

that link posted says for someone 6 foot they wont ever get over 196 lbs lbm. im over that right now at 21 years old and i feel like i can put on way more.

it said what about the mega athletes that are 280 lbs huge. and it said they have like 30 percent body fat so that puts them back at 196.

what fucking athletes have 30 percent body fat is that a joke?

Im pretty sure i have better then average genetics but there are so many people i see on a daily basis bigger and leaner then me and they cant all have used aas.

end rant.

everyone and their grandmothers are on the juice lol

 

[C.K.]

Lean and naturally never I got to 225 in highschool I read somewhere eat big get big and saw those fat burning adds with lee priest eating a platefull of donuts or jay cutler eating 10 cheese burgers before bed and did just that man I was a bloated flabby mess haha and still have the stretch marks... I'm quite happy where I'm at now 5'11 200 lbs 10%

 

[bblazer]

that link posted says for someone 6 foot they wont ever get over 196 lbs lbm. im over that right now at 21 years old and i feel like i can put on way more.

it said what about the mega athletes that are 280 lbs huge. and it said they have like 30 percent body fat so that puts them back at 196.

what fucking athletes have 30 percent body fat is that a joke?

Im pretty sure i have better then average genetics but there are so many people i see on a daily basis bigger and leaner then me and they cant all have used aas.

end rant.

Let me see... 30% and a mega athlete...


Zydrunas Savickas
Brian Shaw
Hossein Rezazadeh
Most of the left tackles in the NFL
More powerlifters than I can name

Shall I go on?

B-

 

[the_alcatraz]

Let me see... 30% and a mega athlete...


Zydrunas Savickas
Brian Shaw
Hossein Rezazadeh <---- Strong as fuck
Most of the left tackles in the NFL
More powerlifters than I can name

Shall I go on?

B-

See above.

 

[ronki23]

that link posted says for someone 6 foot they wont ever get over 196 lbs lbm. im over that right now at 21 years old and i feel like i can put on way more.

What model were you using? Casey Butt's model is the most popular one but i'm using Mike Berkhan's because I am not measuring myself until my diet finishes in 4 weeks.

Mike Berkhan's model puts 6 foot people at 182lbs but with 5% bodyfat. Lean, 6 foot people won't get past 175 but that excludes 5-10lbs water weight.

Also, it's a genetic potential calculator-aas aren't factored in

Should I rely on the Berkhan model or should I also try out Casey's model?

I'm already 145lbs lean (no water weight), I can reach my genetic potential (according to Berkhan) in approximately one year (my potential comes out as 160-163 dehydrated/0% bodyfat- 165-173 hydrated).

Considering I want 10-15% bodyfat yearly, it shows I can be between 181.5 and 198 lbs. What do you think?

What's your opinion/experience on these models?

P.S. Arnold comes out at 194 with Berkhan-he was 240-250 in contest shape but he did use juice tho

 

[the_alcatraz]

i dont consider that geneticaly gifted

only thing hes gifted with is a good source lol

I think if you look at some of his muscle groups, like back, you could tell the guy had awesome genetics

 

[twenty47]

Let me see... 30% and a mega athlete...


Zydrunas Savickas
Brian Shaw
Hossein Rezazadeh
Most of the left tackles in the NFL
More powerlifters than I can name

Shall I go on?

B-

those guys are 70-100 lbs over what i was talking about..
Zydrunas Savickas 385 lbs
Brian Shaw 370 lbs
Hossein Rezazadeh 350 lbs



I guess we are just on different pages on what we consider a mega athlete. 385 lb power lifters that get light headed just tying their shoes arent what i consider the definition of athletic.

i dont know if i have a bad image on what 30% bf looks like but i dont see most tackles being 30% but they are over 300 lbs so if they were 280 im sure theyd be lower.



but after all that rant.. my whole point was strip these dudes of their body fat and they are over 195 lbs of lbm.. are they not?


heres what a 280 lb mega athlete looks like to me

 

[bblazer]

Agreed. To a point.

My training partner, Jason Bergmann could probably be considered, pound for pound, the strongest man in strongman. Yet he is only 285 and 5' 10" and pretty ripped. I woud say he is < 15% bf. He doesn't look too different from the pics you posted.

B-

 

[twenty47]

What model were you using? Casey Butt's model is the most popular one but i'm using Mike Berkhan's because I am not measuring myself until my diet finishes in 4 weeks.

Mike Berkhan's model puts 6 foot people at 182lbs but with 5% bodyfat. Lean, 6 foot people won't get past 175 but that excludes 5-10lbs water weight.

Also, it's a genetic potential calculator-aas aren't factored in

Should I rely on the Berkhan model or should I also try out Casey's model?

I'm already 145lbs lean (no water weight), I can reach my genetic potential (according to Berkhan) in approximately one year (my potential comes out as 160-163 dehydrated/0% bodyfat- 165-173 hydrated).

Considering I want 10-15% bodyfat yearly, it shows I can be between 181.5 and 198 lbs. What do you think?

What's your opinion/experience on these models?

P.S. Arnold comes out at 194 with Berkhan-he was 240-250 in contest shape but he did use juice tho

it is what it is i guess. just doesnt apply to me i know that. but the average joe is way smaller then me i suppose. at 5% body fat id still be over 200 lbs. my bones and organs might weigh more then 175. but i also wear a 13 shoe, have 10.5 inch ankles and almost 8 inch wrists with hands big enough palm basketballs on a bounce.

 

[the_alcatraz]

Agreed. To a point.

My training partner, Jason Bergmann could probably be considered, pound for pound, the strongest man in strongman. Yet he is only 285 and 5' 10" and pretty ripped. I woud say he is < 15% bf. He doesn't look too different from the pics you posted.

B-

People who are 300 lbs plus may be strong as an ox, but I do not feel they are all that "healthy" bro...must be pretty hard keeping on all the weight without shit food and eating too much and pumping too much blood to the heart, etc...so many factors...

People like Magnus are genetic freaks, but generally, it's not healthy

Are you telling me Razazadeh is healthy? look at him...he looks fuckin ugly and disgusting

 

[bblazer]

People who are 300 lbs plus may be strong as an ox, but I do not feel they are all that "healthy" bro...must be pretty hard keeping on all the weight without shit food and eating too much and pumping too much blood to the heart, etc...so many factors...

People like Magnus are genetic freaks, but generally, it's not healthy

Are you telling me Razazadeh is healthy? look at him...he looks fuckin ugly and disgusting

All points agreed and well taken. As a general rule I think you are right. Of course there are going to be exceptions like Shaw and Bergmann, but like I said, they are the exceptions.

One thing I would point out though, is that I would venture to say that we could call the top strongmen competitors athletic. Remember that their events not only test functional strength, but speed, agility and endurance under load.

B-

 

[the_alcatraz]

All points agreed and well taken. As a general rule I think you are right. Of course there are going to be exceptions like Shaw and Bergmann, but like I said, they are the exceptions.

One thing I would point out though, is that I would venture to say that we could call the top strongmen competitors athletic. Remember that their events not only test functional strength, but speed, agility and endurance under load.

B-

Agreed 100% with calling the top strongman competitors athletic.

Powerlifters, however, are not.

 

[bblazer]

Agreed 100% with calling the top strongman competitors athletic.

Powerlifters, however, are not.

Are you saying you are anti squat gut? Those big old belly blisters are things of beauty! I have been working on mine for nearly 25 years! It goes well with all my back hair!

B-

 

[ExtraMile]

One thing I would point out though, is that I would venture to say that we could call the top strongmen competitors athletic. Remember that their events not only test functional strength, but speed, agility and endurance under load.

B-

Except Glenn Ross

I don’t think he can actually physically perform a clean due to lack of flexibility… I may be wrong though it could be a shoulder injury or something. Have you seen the way he cleaned the appolon’s axle in the Arnold Strongman contest? Its pretty sick how he pressed that ~380lb axle for reps with no leg drive but still… wow if he has such little flexibility and boy does he have a belly on him lol.

Heres the vid for those interested, he’s up second after svend karlsen:

YouTube - Arnold Strongman Classic 2005 - Apollon's Wheel pt. 2

 

[the_alcatraz]

Are you saying you are anti squat gut? Those big old belly blisters are things of beauty! I have been working on mine for nearly 25 years! It goes well with all my back hair!

B-

haha I would rather all strongmen look like marius

 

[ExtraMile]

Google Image Result for http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_SiD8FLURufE/Sw6y7CXkm3I/AAAAAAAAA78/NuEvENPdof4/s1600/dorian-yates.jpg

Google Image Result for http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Yv6EmBE71sA/SYFJwtbn6bI/AAAAAAAABDI/B6m6J4Vn1rg/s320/Dorian+Yates+8.jpg

Google Image Result for http://athlete.ru/fotos/profi/dorian/dorian_yates_161_1984_young.jpg

these pics tell me different

Google Image Result for http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=324&stc=1&d=1077648546

i personaly think dorian was the first bodybuilder to explore other substances and new level of doses to acheieve his physique,

you could never see from his early stages that he had the genes for bodybuilding

thats because he wasnt lifting or eating like a BBer lol... maybe he wasnt naturally muscular but he did have muscle growing genes if that makes sense, like muscle insertion points, muscle fibre distribution, mind-muscle link etc. Otherwise he simple would not have gotten as big as he did... look at that back and those calves and tell me he had bad genes...

 

[the_alcatraz]

thats because he wasnt lifting or eating like a BBer lol... maybe he wasnt naturally muscular but he did have muscle growing genes if that makes sense, like muscle insertion points, muscle fibre distribution, mind-muscle link etc. Otherwise he simple would not have gotten as big as he did... look at that back and those calves and tell me he had bad genes...

Exactly...nowadays, bodybuilders are bigger and have beter juice, but how many look like Dorian?

 

[ExtraMile]

lol i disagree we cana rgue with the nehancements avaialable today to bodybuilders almost anyone can acheieve a physique of his size

just look at kai greene or phil heath

kai for over 10 years had a very similar physique and showed he playued at a very large size

then over a peroid of 1 year manages to all sudden throw on 30-40 pound sof lean muscle mass in his offseason? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

phil heath use to be a scrawny basketball player

few years and he won NPC championship and again showed a similar stage to kai

turned pro and BANG we saw a similar 30-40 pounds gained

we can look at phils last year, compare his size and ocndition in the rescent arnold classic to last years peroformances on stage and we can see a HUGE difference

i mean lets consider it, we can argue the guys had muscle fiber distiribution, insertion points, long muscle fascias and wateva

but when these guys are using 5-6 grams of anabolic MINIMUM, synthol, growth hormones, insulin, implants, thyroids, appetite suppresents, diuretics, IGF all in huge doses

can we really argue they have great genetics? and if so are they geneticaly gifted in there ability to grow? or there bodys abilitys to handle such HUGE levels of substances?

we can look and most guys who stood on the pro level bodybuilding scene 20 years ago, there average arm size was 18 and half to 19ich shredded, guys who had arms over 20 inches were consider gifted and VERY gifted

we look at the pros today and 22 inches is considered standard if not lagging behind there massive frames

we all know dexter jackson, look into his old bodybuilding contests, he was naturaly very lean and almost ectomorphic but carried VERY little size, we look today and hes a monster and very lean

you say look at dorian yates back and calves and say he had good genes, but ive seen pros with the shittest calve genes turn them into prize winning calves with 3 months of synthol use so its not as hard to do as people think

people arhue alot of these pros were very geneticaly gifted, i disagree, when your using that level of substances to achieve there size then does genetics really play that big of a factor anymore?

they might have had better then average genetics then the average guy, but lets face it we look at them before they hit the gear and weve probably seen guys in our gym who are natural show greater potential then these pros

just my thoughts

all very good points, and yes I have seen old pics of kai greene and it seemed like once he got in with a shot of competing with the big boys he went for the huge freak look and went all out. His gay ass posing is a differant matter lololol.

can we really argue they have great genetics? and if so are they geneticaly gifted in there ability to grow? or there bodys abilitys to handle such HUGE levels of substances?

This was the point I was trying to make. Even if the big name pro's were skinny as kids of teens or whatever, they are all genetically gifted in one way or another, maybe not to carry large amounts of muscle mass naturally without training but for one they are all gifted in that their bodies can tolerate the drugs, food and shear size.

And by the sounds of it most of the big name pro's had good enough genetics to not carry much bodyfat, whether that was because they were just generally skinny to begin with so they didnt carry but fat or muscle, or they were the athletic type either way how many times have you seen pics of a pro before they started training and they were fat as fuck?

 

[ExtraMile]

lol and for some reason Kai thinks hes a philosapher and an artist LMFAO when hes making pornos of fukin a grapefruit, one weird fuking bloke

yes ill agree that geneticaly gifted muscle builders they arent, but gifted in there ability to handle substances yes

i also will agree some of them have the genetics to have a good frame to support there level of muscle symetricaly (e.g flex wheeler and shawn ray)

but really do think the term GENETICALY GIFTED is missleading to call these guys, i call a guy who can bench 400 pounds naturally geneticaly gifted, or a guy will 19ich arms ripped naturally geneticaly

maybe theres something better to call these guys?

however i will agree some of these guys are geneticaly gifted, arnold i think was gifted to acheieve his arm size with what those bodybuilders had available to them back in his times

aswell as ronnie coleman since even before gear he did show great potential and symetry, however i persoanly think he lost his symetry as he pursued size

lol OMEGA posted a naked photo shoot of him over in Chat&Conversation too I saw an RX Muscle video when dave palumbo went to Kai Greene's flat and Kai had like no money cause he lost one of his sponsors and his flat was littered with paintings of naked women and people fucking eachother... and one the floor was a BBing trophy that had been broken... lol

yeah I saw a pic of Ronnie when he was a teen and playing for a highschool football team and his arms were fuckin huge, and this was before he even knew about BBing lol

 

[ronki23]

Most pro bodybuilders ARE genetically gifted-you don't see Barry Bonds/ Sylvester Stallone winning competition from all the roids they take do you? They have above-average genetics but not the best if you know what I mean; they are the 'big' (over 200 lb) guys lifting heavy weight (over 300 on all compound lifts) down the gym/ or guys with natural six packs/muscle separation and good strength for their size but a level up due to the stuff they take.

Actually, I wanted to know, which bodybuilders did NOT use steroids- Mike O'Hearn and John Hansen were accused of it even though they claim to be natural? The same goes for even the old guys like Reg Park/Steve Reeves/Chet Yorton!

Also,which famous bodybuilders were accused of using Synthol/implants? Was there ever a time before this happened? Apparently,even Schwarzenegger took Esiclene and that was meant to be like Synthol

Finally, what were your opinions on the Berkhan/Butt Models-which is more accurate?

 

[bblazer]

I think Gregg Valentino is/was all natty.

B-

 

[twenty47]

how is synthol use overcoming genetics??

 

[moya]

Agreed 100% with calling the top strongman competitors athletic.

Powerlifters, however, are not.

come on now... some lighter weight-class powerlifters are VERY athletic... myself included, and i was invited to the olympia for the deadlift-only event... im not sure that makes me 'top level' competitor or not... but my total is months away from 'elite' status...

 

[ronki23]

many famous bodybuilders have been accused of implants and synthol use, arni was accused of it for his calves due to he had very weak calve genes and then about a year before he stood on the olympia stage he managed to almost double his calf size

some even say he went and got implants, but we can prove this becoz like most bodybuilders they keep there substance use private

oh-ok- I would'nt say Schwarzenegger got implants into his calves though-he trained them hard for a year since he saw Reg Park-doing Calf Raises with over 1000lbs/doing them with people standing on his back/shoulders. Heck, due to the volume he used, he occasionall did staggered sets for calves. But I do agree that he used steroids to assist.

Did Arnold use Esiclene-it's like synthol isn't it? Would he have had monster arms without?

phil heath is just as bad of an example, his curls are no bigger and he has some prize winning arms yet there weak as fuk

Also, I think Phil Heath has great arms/genetics-maybe the synthol primed them but I know they could get to almost 20". Before NPC, I have a copy of M&F dated 2006 and he was curling 60-80lbs.

What i'd like to know is how you spot synthol/implants in pro bodybuilders. AFAIK, it's most prominent in Silvio Samuel's arms/delts, Markus Ruhl's arms/shoulders, Naseer's upper body, Flex Wheeler's upper body and calves, Dexter Jackson's arms/shoulders and Lou Ferrigno's calves.

AFAIK, the only people who have honestly NOT used any sort of chemical assistance are Kirk Douglas and Charlton Heston-people who are NOT bodybuilders.

People have even accused Steve Reeves,John Grimek and Charles Atlas of juicing! Is there actually anyone 100% natural-heck,i've even heard Jack LaLanne was accused of taking them.

Oh yeah, this all comes back to the accuracy of the Berkhan/Butt models for genetic potential. Is Berkhan's model accurate or should I try Butt's model?

 

[jaybois]

I carry 220 easy naturally and lean and I'm 5'8 but also have great genetics that run in my family. I was 5'6 170lb in the 5th grade and not fat just quit growing for some reason.

 

[ronki23]

Don't worry,this is my last post of the thread-detailed answers'd be greatley appreci

arnold always had monster arms and the use of synthol was was very unlikely

however he always had hsit cal;ve genes, and if ur unaware this is usually something NO bodybuilder has ever been able to fix, its a big genetic flaw many guys carry

to say arnold in 1 year turned his calves into monsters with proper training is very unlikely, especially when he hadent been able to do it all his life, and then he uses a clever training regime to cover it up? sounds like he used some Esiclene to me


phil heath showed great potential in the 2005 NPC championships but u need ot realise at that stage many guys in the super heavyweight division are already using synthol, if you look at phil heath before he started a professional bodybuilding career u will see he had good arms but not the best arm genes

his rescent arnold classic show also showed a HUGE sudden improvment in his lagging back, so hes been doing something there without a doubt


improper synthol shots can be spoted since the muscle develops unnaturaly, aswell as lumps can sometimes be formed, or the muscle forms an irregular shape, sometimes muscles also appear full of water if to much synthol is injected

and of course there obvious cases like greg valentino which u dont need to be a genius to spot

Oh ok.

So what is the difference between Esiclene and Synthol-it seems to me that people are more accepting of Esiclene. I hear that Esiclene just inflames/swells the muscle you have up to a point, while you can add as much/little Synthol as you like. Am I right?
^^The reason I say this is because as soon as Schwarzenegger/Coleman/Cutler/Levrone/bodybuilding legends are accused of Synthol use, people dismiss it by saying superior genetics/Esiclene.
^^^With regards to Arnie, I think he developed his calves by a 1-2 inches in a year and must've used Esiclene to plump them up. From what I know, he only trained calves as a syntergist in squats/leg presses/deadlifts so I think that they will have grown a LOT if he suddenly started isolating the calf muscles.

and to anser ur model, DONT use any of them since itll take you YEARS to achieve close to ur genetic potential, you are worrying about something that is most likely minimum 4-5 years away if not longer

there are also many factors that come into play, you cannot determine ur genetic potential by a model, all those models are based on different studies

all these models should be considered very littly, and none of them even 80-90% accurate

train, eat and sleep properly and within a few years you will actually see where ur geneeitcs will get you, the model will not tell you your abilities

Well my lean mass is 145ish and this says I won't get more than 160-165 lean (WITHOUT water/glycogen)
^ If it takes 4-5 years then that can't be right because I added just under a pound of lean mass every week when bulking on a 5x5 ish program. Even if it's 0.5lbs a week, if I did it for a year then i'd have added 26lbs lean mass throughout the year/5-7 lbs more muscle,thus achieving/going over my genetic potential for lean mass.

What I personally would like to do is have a physique like one of the guys from the Expendables. Even if I can't get to 200lbs lean, i'd be happy either:

a)Adding 10-15lbs pure muscle
b)Getting to 180 lean
c)Being over 200lbs in overall weight

Finally, is there any 100% pure natural bodybuilder today? The only ones I know are Kirk Douglas and Charlton Heston.

Which of these did NOT use steroids?:

Eugen Sandow
Charles Atlas
John Grimek
Steve Reeves
Reg Park
Chet Yorton
Jack LaLanne
John Hansen-Natural Mr.O
Mike O'Hearn-Most popular Nattie

^I want to use non-steroided muscle men to motivate me

 

[Tblock1]

wow this is an interesting discussion. On regards to that list of who did or didnt you just posted, I don't think anyone really knows for sure.

 

[Tblock1]

Re: Don't worry,this is my last post of the thread-detailed answers'd be greatley app

Formebolone (Esiclene) Profile
^^^^^

all the pros are accused of many things, but u need to remeber at there level in bodybuilding what they use is required to acheive there levl of size, people are not born with genetics to acheiev 24 inch arms ripped to the bone, forearms thicker then there head and shoulders twice the size of there head

so these guys do require the use of all these substances, and when i say use substances i mean the demolish them lol, ive met heavy weights (not even pro bodybuilders) who use 4-5 grams of anabolics to acheiev there size along with a shitload of other stuff, to imagine wat someone like coleman is using would be intense

as for arni u need to be realistic, the calve defiecient gene isnt something bodybuilders can really overcome, and to be honest ive NEVER heard of scene a bodybuilder or person EVER bring up there calves if they have the small calve gene without some use of localised injection

arni may claim he was able to bring his calves up 1-2inches a year with special training, but u need to realise 1-2 inches a year to add on calves is MASSIVE, even guys with amazing calve genes and geared up struggle to acheieve growth like that on there calves, so for arni to do it with shitty calve genes id have to say arni pulled a dodgy and was doing some localised injections

BTW im not hating on arni, the man is a legend im just putting this out for disscusion

again ur assuming ur gains compared with a model

first you probably can get alot heavier then 165ish naturaly if ur genes arent shit and secondly muscle gains are not consistant, you will not add half a pound or a pound every week of lean muscle mass,

if it were that simple in 1 year i coudl weigh 240 pounds lean, this simply is not the case

it just doesnt work like that


muscle gains come on fast in early stages, but as you gain more the gains slow down fast so my assumption of 4-5 years of reaching genetic limit is not unrealistic

considering ur 145 pounds then it shows you have alot of growth left since you carry little muscle already, making it easy for you to gain in the early stages

alot of guys also cleaim they have reached there genetic potential before steroid use, again this is usually wrong becoz most guys have no idea what there genetic potential usually is

from personal experience when i started using steroids and discontinued them i realised my genetic limit becoz after discontinueing steroids i was able to see what level of muscle gains i could maintain permanently, ended up being about 200 pounds fairly lean (11-12%bf)

That is still pretty solid. I like your style because you focus on strength and size, and your pretty big but still strong not some huge weak kitten lol!

 

[Eric1987]

Depends on your stats

I'm 5'8"

I'm also 210 lbs pretty lean...it took me all my life to get here

but thats because im only 5'8"

Nice I'm the same height and I would LOVE to be a solid 200. I am 165 right now but I havent been to the gym in a minute.

 

[ExtraMile]

Thread of the month here

 

[the_alcatraz]

I carry 220 easy naturally and lean and I'm 5'8 but also have great genetics that run in my family. I was 5'6 170lb in the 5th grade and not fat just quit growing for some reason.

you're trying to tell me you're 5'8" and carry around 220 NATURALLY? I find that hard to believe because you say you do that easily just on genetics...

 

[ronki23]

as for arni u need to be realistic, the calve defiecient gene isnt something bodybuilders can really overcome, and to be honest ive NEVER heard of scene a bodybuilder or person EVER bring up there calves if they have the small calve gene without some use of localised injection

arni may claim he was able to bring his calves up 1-2inches a year with special training, but u need to realise 1-2 inches a year to add on calves is MASSIVE, even guys with amazing calve genes and geared up struggle to acheieve growth like that on there calves, so for arni to do it with shitty calve genes id have to say arni pulled a dodgy and was doing some localised injections

BTW im not hating on arni, the man is a legend im just putting this out for disscusion

I think 0.5-1 inch doesn't seem unrealistic-I tell you why, I added 0.5-1 inch to my calves after training them hard/specifically with high protein diet/calf isolation work/cycling (literal cycling) for 1 and a half-2 months

I think he may have pumped them with Esiclene but do you really think you're calves won't grow when you train them in isolation for the first time PROPERLY-not just 3-4 sets of Standing/Seated Calf Raises (I doubt he trained Calves at all)?

The man was doing raises with over 1000lbs! He even had people sit on his back for Donkey Raises and people stand on the Calf Raise machine. He even did lots of running/cycling for cardio and staggered sets/very high volume.

The man did high volume (multiple and staggered sets, cardio) and heavy weight (all the plates on the machine)

I think his Calves must've grew AT LEAST an inch without Esiclene/ half an inch if he didn't roid at all-if I can get over 0.5" with newb gains, i'm sure Arnie could.

But I agree the Esiclene must've been used

P.S. Why is Esiclene considered no use to an athelete? If it stretches muscle and has anabolic properties (used for kids with growth deficiencies), I think it's pretty good.
^Seems better than that disgusting Synthol

 

[ronki23]

This is the last post-REALLY

You said after 2-3 months,your weight gain will slow down to <0.5lbs a week.
At that point, do you know if you're adding mass if weight gain doesn't budge much/you can't see or measure your physique difference due to the weight not adding?

Do you go by your strength increase?

With regards to strength, I want to be strong as well as big. My 5RMs are:

Overhead Press- 100kg/220lbs
Upright Row-100kg/220lbs
Bench Press- 150kg/330lbs
Hack Squat- 150kg/330lbs
Barbell Row- 125kg/275lbs
Deadlift- 200kg/440lbs
Hack Squat- 200kg/440lbs

They don't seem v.heavy do they? They achievable? Atm I can only Overhead Press is 30kg/66lbs for 6, Incline (don't do Flat Bench atm on account of moobs) 40kg/88lbs for 4, Deadlift and Hack Squat 70kg/154lbs for 3, Barbell Row 40kg/88lbs for 6.
^Trebling strength is possible? I'll be doing Rippetoes/5x5 like programs

I hope you don't think i'm trolling-i'm just unclear about some bodybuilding science since many muscle magazines (M&F,Musclemag,Flex) don't write much/cover up how much one can really add.

 

[Tblock1]

Re: This is the last post-REALLY

You said after 2-3 months,your weight gain will slow down to <0.5lbs a week.
At that point, do you know if you're adding mass if weight gain doesn't budge much/you can't see or measure your physique difference due to the weight not adding?

Do you go by your strength increase?

With regards to strength, I want to be strong as well as big. My 5RMs are:

Overhead Press- 100kg/220lbs
Upright Row-100kg/220lbs
Bench Press- 150kg/330lbs
Hack Squat- 150kg/330lbs
Barbell Row- 125kg/275lbs
Deadlift- 200kg/440lbs
Hack Squat- 200kg/440lbs

They don't seem v.heavy do they? They achievable? Atm I can only Overhead Press is 30kg/66lbs for 6, Incline (don't do Flat Bench atm on account of moobs) 40kg/88lbs for 4, Deadlift and Hack Squat 70kg/154lbs for 3, Barbell Row 40kg/88lbs for 6.
^Trebling strength is possible? I'll be doing Rippetoes/5x5 like programs

I hope you don't think i'm trolling-i'm just unclear about some bodybuilding science since many muscle magazines (M&F,Musclemag,Flex) don't write much/cover up how much one can really add.

Okay your goals are good but take out upright row if you get to 220x5 you'll likely have torn rotary cuffs. Also that overhead press is a high goal. Start with lower goals have those as goals for years from now

 

[ceo]

NO ONE can accurately tell you what your genetic potential is. NO ONE. However, it is my belief that the majority of people that are say 5'10 to 6' will probably be able to get to a lean 220 if they are willing to train right. Who knows, you might get to 240. NO one knows. But 220lbs at 5'10" is not unrealistic for most people.

This guy right here would know probably better than anyone on here so far. He has worked with and developed probably hundreds of athletes like he is describing.

Thank you, Glenn.

 

[ExtraMile]

I think 0.5-1 inch doesn't seem unrealistic-I tell you why, I added 0.5-1 inch to my calves after training them hard/specifically with high protein diet/calf isolation work/cycling (literal cycling) for 1 and a half-2 months

I think he may have pumped them with Esiclene but do you really think you're calves won't grow when you train them in isolation for the first time PROPERLY-not just 3-4 sets of Standing/Seated Calf Raises (I doubt he trained Calves at all)?

The man was doing raises with over 1000lbs! He even had people sit on his back for Donkey Raises and people stand on the Calf Raise machine. He even did lots of running/cycling for cardio and staggered sets/very high volume.

The man did high volume (multiple and staggered sets, cardio) and heavy weight (all the plates on the machine)

I think his Calves must've grew AT LEAST an inch without Esiclene/ half an inch if he didn't roid at all-if I can get over 0.5" with newb gains, i'm sure Arnie could.

I could believe 1 inch in a year or maybe a little over but 2 inches, especially as it meant taking his weakest bodypart and making it a strength is hard to believe he did it just by incorperating calf raises to his routine lol

 

[ronki23]

Re: This is the last post-REALLY

Okay your goals are good but take out upright row if you get to 220x5 you'll likely have torn rotary cuffs. Also that overhead press is a high goal. Start with lower goals have those as goals for years from now

The problem is I love Upright Rows and it pains me NOT doing them-I can feel awesome pumps in my biceps,shoulders and top of my traps.

If you add less than 0.5lbs a week to lean mass (or even overall), that means your bodypart size is unlikely to increase. Will your continuing strength increases indicate you're adding muscle?

At the end of the day, my original goal was 220 overall but now my ultimate target is 200lbs overall (IF that's possible). My minimum goal is 180lbs.

By the way, you guys are much much friendlier than those at T-Nation and Bodyspace.

 

[ceo]

all these computer models, and other bullshit is just that. You are WAY over thinking this thing!!!! Go lift hard and heavy, eat big (good high protein meals), do a little cardio (but not too much) just to keep fat in check, and put on some muscle. You're wasting time contemplating this and making it seem like such a big deal. Just go DO IT. There's already plenty of info on these boards and plenty of people to help you get what you want.

 

[Tblock1]

Re: This is the last post-REALLY

The problem is I love Upright Rows and it pains me NOT doing them-I can feel awesome pumps in my biceps,shoulders and top of my traps.

If you add less than 0.5lbs a week to lean mass (or even overall), that means your bodypart size is unlikely to increase. Will your continuing strength increases indicate you're adding muscle?

At the end of the day, my original goal was 220 overall but now my ultimate target is 200lbs overall (IF that's possible). My minimum goal is 180lbs.

By the way, you guys are much much friendlier than those at T-Nation and Bodyspace.

Lol t-nation has some enjoyable articles and there is good advice there but it is more of an entertainment forum. I have an account over there with maybe 50 posts and most of the time answers are just "stick it in her pooper" or something like that lol! They are into lifting over there and there's some strong fuckers but it's mostly for entertainment.

As for the
"If you add less than 0.5lbs a week to lean mass (or even overall), that means your bodypart size is unlikely to increase. Will your continuing strength increases indicate you're adding muscle?"

That's false. Imagine you add .3 lbs of lean muscle every week. You do that for 30 weeks and you've got 10 pounds of new muscle mass. Most likely it's not going to be like that though, you'll gain a couple pounds a week in the begining (muscle, water, and fat), then it will taper down

 

[ExtraMile]

Re: This is the last post-REALLY

The problem is I love Upright Rows and it pains me NOT doing them-I can feel awesome pumps in my biceps,shoulders and top of my traps.

if you really wanna do them I would do them at the end of a heavy pressing workout, mostly for some higher reps like 12-18. Going heavy on them every so often is ok but its another one of those risky exercises, so its your choice wether you do them or not.

 

[bblazer]

Here is what Mark Rippetoe says about rows:

My opinion about barbell rows is as follows: fuck barbell rows. Really. Fuck them. Stop wasting time worrying about barbell rows and get your deadlift up to 500. By then you'll have your own opinion and you won't have to worry about mine.

B-

 

[the_alcatraz]

Here is what Mark Rippetoe says about rows:

My opinion about barbell rows is as follows: fuck barbell rows. Really. Fuck them. Stop wasting time worrying about barbell rows and get your deadlift up to 500. By then you'll have your own opinion and you won't have to worry about mine.

B-

Great quote!

Dumbell rows is a different story though

 

[Tblock1]

agree

ive never done a barbell row in my life, cant stand them lol

however i can dead 660

ONE day ill make the 700 club, one day

Lol I can't wait to see that in your log man a 700 deadlift will be so cool!!!!!!! Barbell rows suck but I do like db rows.

As for that guys goals he obviosuly should set those as lifetime goals. For now he needs to just focus on:

Bench: 135x10
Deadlift: 225x5
Military press: 95x5

Shit those are standards a lot of people can do without lifting get to those before you worry about benching 330x5 reps!

BTW thatbloke do you realize with those goals he wasnt just talking about 1 rep with each of those numbers he was talking about getting 330x5 bench, 440x5 deadlift, and 275x5 barbell row! Lmao!

 

[twenty47]

where did that dude gets those 5rm numbers from lol. i can crush some of those. but i dont think i could up right row anything that heavy without ending up in the hospital with detached shoulders and a broken spine.

 

[bblazer]

My training parter can easily be called pound-for-pound one of the top 5-10 strongest men in the word. When we do upright rows, we do them on the smith, and he maxes out at 3 wheels a side for 3-5.

B-

 

[twenty47]

My training parter can easily be called pound-for-pound one of the top 5-10 strongest men in the word. When we do upright rows, we do them on the smith, and he maxes out at 3 wheels a side for 3-5.

B-

i know i couldnt do that. but the smith machine would take away a lot of the possible injuries me thinks.

I guess in my training ive never seen upright rows as an excersise to do big weight on. i usually just do them with the rope on cables or something an occasionally straight bar with 135 max for reps. My shoulders are one of my best traits so i guess i just havent worried about it.

 

[the_alcatraz]

that's just rediculous...I do upright rowas with a plate and a half each side

 

[bblazer]

Not to hijack the thread, but we do them to help with the first movements of an atlas stone load. And if you wanted to follow it, he leaves for South Africa on Friday for World's Strongest Man. His name is Jason Bergmann (his 3rd appearance). I posted a thread about it in the strongman forum. To put this guy into perspective, he is 5' 9", 280 12%bf. Brian Shaw who is arguably one of the top 3 strongmen in the world is 6' 10" 390lbs and 15-18% bf. Both guys can deadlift almost 900 and load a 520 lb stone to 48" for reps.

You would be able to follow everything online at Marunde-Muscle or Ironmind, but nothing is televised until December.

Again, sorry for the hijack. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

B-

 

[Tblock1]

Not to hijack the thread, but we do them to help with the first movements of an atlas stone load. And if you wanted to follow it, he leaves for South Africa on Friday for World's Strongest Man. His name is Jason Bergmann (his 3rd appearance). I posted a thread about it in the strongman forum. To put this guy into perspective, he is 5' 9", 280 12%bf. Brian Shaw who is arguably one of the top 3 strongmen in the world is 6' 10" 390lbs and 15-18% bf. Both guys can deadlift almost 900 and load a 520 lb stone to 48" for reps.

You would be able to follow everything online at Marunde-Muscle or Ironmind, but nothing is televised until December.

Again, sorry for the hijack. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

B-

6'10 390 is muthafucking huge!!!! Holy shit seriously that is ridiculous! And 15-18% bodyfat is super lean at that weight, I'd venture to say ripped

 

[bblazer]

6'10 390 is muthafucking huge!!!! Holy shit seriously that is ridiculous! And 15-18% bodyfat is super lean at that weight, I'd venture to say ripped

Yea...

Not quite ripped, but fucking huge.

B-

 

[ExtraMile]

same lol,

gave 2 plates a side a try once and neally pulled my shoulders out lol

branch warren did them with 315 on the oly bar for 7 reps

a bit of body english though. Its in his dvd but kinda hard to see the bar to see exactly that its 315, it may be 275 but he said in an article he has done 315 for reps before on the olympic bar so Im pretty sure it was 315 in his training dvd...

 

[ceo]

BTW thatbloke do you realize with those goals he wasnt just talking about 1 rep with each of those numbers he was talking about getting 330x5 bench, 440x5 deadlift, and 275x5 barbell row! Lmao!

Those numbers aren't all that big. Did he have a timeframe? Was he planning in reaching those goals in 12 weeks or 12 years? lol.

 

[jesse_01]

I would say 3-4 years of training those goals are attainable. I have been lifting for almost 2yrs and I'm close to some of those goals. Shoulders, upright row and bench are a diff story.

 

[Tblock1]

Those numbers aren't all that big. Did he have a timeframe? Was he planning in reaching those goals in 12 weeks or 12 years? lol.

No not at all I would consider them moderately strong but the thing is he is 145 pounds and here he says:

They don't seem v.heavy do they? They achievable? Atm I can only Overhead Press is 30kg/66lbs for 6, Incline (don't do Flat Bench atm on account of moobs) 40kg/88lbs for 4, Deadlift and Hack Squat 70kg/154lbs for 3, Barbell Row 40kg/88lbs for 6.
^Trebling strength is possible? I'll be doing Rippetoes/5x5 like programs

With those lifts and his weight it is going to take a long time if ever to naturally get to those numbers and 220 pounds

 

[ceo]

No not at all I would consider them moderately strong but the thing is he is 145 pounds and here he says:



With those lifts and his weight it is going to take a long time if ever to naturally get to those numbers and 220 pounds

ah yes. well, he could do it naturally, but it will take a lot of eating, proper training and dedication.

 

[ronki23]

Lol I can't wait to see that in your log man a 700 deadlift will be so cool!!!!!!! Barbell rows suck but I do like db rows.

As for that guys goals he obviosuly should set those as lifetime goals. For now he needs to just focus on:

Bench: 135x10
Deadlift: 225x5
Military press: 95x5

Shit those are standards a lot of people can do without lifting get to those before you worry about benching 330x5 reps!

BTW thatbloke do you realize with those goals he wasnt just talking about 1 rep with each of those numbers he was talking about getting 330x5 bench, 440x5 deadlift, and 275x5 barbell row! Lmao!

Don't mean to bump but am looking back and i've achieved those above.

Have finished my studies at University; during the semesters I do martial arts (kickboxing,judo and wrestling) but in the summer I get 3-4 months to train and diet properly.

In 2013 I have only been doing wrestling and push ups/sit ups/squats during the 3 month period I wasn't doing martial arts. I could do 20 press ups on my fists/6 on my fingers. Been doing 100s for several months.

My best lifts were August 2012 (end of May-end of Aug)

Squat: 185 x 5 and 220 1RM
Deadlift: 185 x 5 and 220 1RM
Bench: 135 x 3
Overhead Press: 100 x 5
Barbell Row: 100 x 5

I've been doing a 3x5 program since November and my current lifts are

Squat: 185 x 5 but 200lb 1RM
Deadlift: 185 x 5 but 200lb 1RM

but my upper body is weaker

Overhead Press: 77 x 5
Barbell Row: 115 x 5

Weight is pushing 190lbs but I carry around a lot of fat too

I want to reach my personal bests in the next 6 weeks so need some motivation as 6 weeks would mean i've been doing approx 5 months training (the longest i've ever done weights in the past 4 years).

and I may revise those lifts I wanted to achieve (they're long term goals anyway). It's just that the likes of Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson, John Cena, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Sylvester Stallone powerlift over 400lbs on their lifts.

And Triple H benches only 315lbs.

I've stalled and it's annoyed me-hence the reason I want to get bigger/stronger.


Goal 1- Lift bodyweight for upper body
Goal 2- Lift 1.5x bodyweight for lower body
Goal 3- Try not to get too fat when trying to achieve 1 and 2 e.g. try not to add to bodyfat % and cut junk if I do so
Goal 4- Lift 1.5x bodyweight for upper body / win local judo or no gi comps
Goal 5- Lift 2x bodyweight for legs/ win national judo or no gi comps / cut bodyfat %

 

[ronki23]

Don't mean to bump but am looking back and i've achieved those above.

Have finished my studies at University; during the semesters I do martial arts (kickboxing,judo and wrestling) but in the summer I get 3-4 months to train and diet properly.

In 2013 I have only been doing wrestling and push ups/sit ups/squats during the 3 month period I wasn't doing martial arts. I could do 20 press ups on my fists/6 on my fingers. Been doing 100s for several months.

My best lifts were August 2012 (end of May-end of Aug)

Squat: 185 x 5 and 220 1RM
Deadlift: 185 x 5 and 220 1RM
Bench: 135 x 3
Overhead Press: 100 x 5
Barbell Row: 100 x 5

I've been doing a 3x5 program since November and my current lifts are

Squat: 185 x 5 but 200lb 1RM
Deadlift: 185 x 5 but 200lb 1RM

but my upper body is weaker

Overhead Press: 77 x 5
Barbell Row: 115 x 5

Weight is pushing 190lbs but I carry around a lot of fat too

I want to reach my personal bests in the next 6 weeks so need some motivation as 6 weeks would mean i've been doing approx 5 months training (the longest i've ever done weights in the past 4 years).

and I may revise those lifts I wanted to achieve (they're long term goals anyway). It's just that the likes of Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson, John Cena, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Sylvester Stallone powerlift over 400lbs on their lifts.

And Triple H benches only 315lbs.

I've stalled and it's annoyed me-hence the reason I want to get bigger/stronger.


Goal 1- Lift bodyweight for upper body
Goal 2- Lift 1.5x bodyweight for lower body
Goal 3- Try not to get too fat when trying to achieve 1 and 2 e.g. try not to add to bodyfat % and cut junk if I do so
Goal 4- Lift 1.5x bodyweight for upper body / win local judo or no gi comps
Goal 5- Lift 2x bodyweight for legs/ win national judo or no gi comps / cut bodyfat %

Upper body strength taking way too long to come back. Perhaps one reason was I drank lots of milk postworkout instead of protein shake for the first 3 months?

 

[ronki23]

Double post (it's not come up)

Whenever I miss a session, and i've missed around 4 or 5 (average of 1 a month) I do 5 sets instead of 3 (following Starting Strength framework). Or in today's case, I did:

Bench 3x5 or 5x3
Overhead Press 3x5 or 5x3
Dips 2x 8
Abs

so tomorrow I could do
Squat 3x5 or 5x3
Deadlift 1-2 x 5
Chins 2x8

as I missed a day and I wanted to do a session before the weekend/follow the normal Rippetoes workout (as I said I only do 5 sets/ improvised routines if I miss a session)

But during the overhead press, which I found harder than last week even though I was using the same weight (as last week I struggled to get the reps), I felt a nasty neck pain on the left of my neck and I had to drop the weight. I think I struggled due to a combination of lack of rest and doing bench first.

I've been training for 4 months and i'm still not as strong as I used to be. During University I used to wrestle/grapple and do bodyweight exercises (I worked out 3 times a week on average).

Why is my strength taking so long to come back (I used to be at my strongest in 2012)? My neck pain stopped me training and I have a bad wrist from Jiu Jitsu but at least I can wear a wrist support. I wanted to take a picture in April as I thought i'd be 25-35lbs stronger on my lifts but i've got to deload now (plus my progress slowed down this last month).

I'm 15-30lbs off where I was last year I'm eating plenty too.

 

[bigdeem]

I'm 6'0 215@12% from 165@8% when I first started lifting years ago. And I think I can still gain a couple pounds. Have only used sarms while cutting.

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