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Inner Chest
- Thread starter crxdog
- Start date
Well...I would say focus on the big basics. Gain overall body mass and your chest will fill out. With that said... Weighted dips will hit your chest at the sternal attachment more than any other chest exercise I have "read". You should be doing weighted dip regardless though imo.
highlander555
New member
Weighted dips aren't a bad way to go, but my shoulders start feeling a little achy after a few weeks of doing them. I'm sort of a whimp though, so take that with a grain of salt.
Seattleite
Banned
Go heavy on the bench press and weighted dips. You won't need anything else to maximize chest growth. Declines serve no purpose, and inclines involve too much of the shoulders. Don't even get me started on flyes...
crxdog
New member
I can punch out heavy weight but the inner bit wont catch up or maybe im getting picky? But your right i will get onto the weighted dips as i haven't really been doing many at all.
enigma4dub
Active member
twinky soft...... lol
to the original poster, post up some pics if you want some feedback... but chances are your chest is relative to everything else. you cannt isolate your inner chest, you can however make the chest as a whole bigger though.
highlander555
New member
Man, this reminds me of the "how can I develope my lower bicep" post. I know people will dissagree with me (and they have every right to) but I feel that the muscle is the muscle, and while you can effect the over all shape and size of it, you can't specifically work one part. A muscle contracts as a whole.
The main thing most people need to do to get a great inner chest/bicep peak, or whatever, is just increase the over all size of the muscle. If that sounds too simple, thats becsue it is, but since it isn't a magic bullet people don't want to hear it.
I just know someone is going to come back quoting Arnold in his damned Bodybuilding Encyclopedia to contradict me (and they have the right to I guess). God I hate that book.
The main thing most people need to do to get a great inner chest/bicep peak, or whatever, is just increase the over all size of the muscle. If that sounds too simple, thats becsue it is, but since it isn't a magic bullet people don't want to hear it.
I just know someone is going to come back quoting Arnold in his damned Bodybuilding Encyclopedia to contradict me (and they have the right to I guess). God I hate that book.
crxdog
New member
Seattleite
Banned
I hope not because you are right on point. The chest can only be trained as one muscle, which is why I have never bought in to the whole "do inclines to work the upper chest and declines for the lower chest" horse shit. A flat bench press and weighted dips allow you to lift the most amount of weight while targeting the chest primarily. Keep incresing the weight on these exercises and your chest will continue to get larger.
i agree mostly with what you stated besides this. you have no way of changing the shape of a muscle, that is all genetic. you make make it bigger, but the shape is the shape.
why dont you like flys?
For me personally, I feel it more in my chest during flys than a regular bench press.
Seattleite
Banned
I had the exact same discussion with someone a few weeks ago, so I'll just copy and paste most of what I said then:
What's the first thing you do when you get ready for a set of flyes? You head over for the lighter dumbbells.
Flyes are a huge step down because they are an isolation movement. They remove the triceps and shoulders out of the exercise, which means you will seriously drop the weight down. You're expending a ton of energy for a little bit of overload.
Isolation = reduced overload, and less overload = less muscle fiber stimulation, and of course less muscle fiber stimulation = less growth. It really is that simple.
A lot people do flyes because they think they are "sculpting" the muscle, but hopefully by now some people understand that you cannot change the genetic shape of your muscles. You can make them bigger, but that's it. So what do you think will make the chest bigger? Pressing 315 pounds or doing flyes with 70-pound dumbbells?
The reason I prefer Flys is it doesn't hurt my shoulders, I can feel my chest actually lifting the weight, whereas sometimes with a flat bench i'm using more of my arms than i'd like.
I don't do flys becuase I think i'm sculpting the muscle...I just feel it more that way.
On a side note, I almost always follow each set of flys immediatly up with bench press until failure. That really works the muscle.
i see the point the issue here and it has been discussed a million and one times. my opinion is...just b/c a lift is less "overload" doesn't mean it isn't worth doing. It just means it shouldn't be the basis of your routine.
think of it in another scenario. People take tylenol to get rid of pain, is it the most potent pain reliever? no, but it works to some extent. not exactly the same thing but hopefully i get across what i'm trying to say.
flyes have their place in bb, just not as a primary lift.
exactly...with so many different chest exercises why limit yourself to just one?
I like to switch it up and confuse my body. Its too stupid to know better
Seattleite
Banned
Well 2 actually...dips and bench press. I don't do any others because they would be less effective.
Muscles respond to overload, not variation in exercise apparatus. Your body doesn't care if you're lifting plates or lifting bricks. The key factor in terms of making muscles larger in continuously increasing the weight.I like to switch it up and confuse my body. Its too stupid to know better
I understand training to failure and beyond is what will help build muscle (with the addition of a proper diet), but at the same time
You can train to failure and past with flys, incline, decline whatever...
Just because you can flat bench more weight then you can with say a db fly doesn't mean your chest is better off. Of course you can flat bench more weight...you've got a few more muscles helping out with the weight. Which is why with an isolation exercise you can't do nearly as much weight.
I guess we can agree to disagree, but looking at the bomb someone gave you...looks like others agree that db flys and other chest exercises do indeed serve a purpose.
annabolick
New member
I had the same problem. I bought a pair of jump stretch bands for some powerlifting workouts I was doing. I was able to use those attached to each side of the cable machine to do chest flys. this built up my inner chest like no other ... close grip dumbell work will help to...do these with flat, incline and decline
Seattleite
Banned
Yes, you can train to failure with other exercises, but for what reason? If the chest is used to being streesed with several hundred pounds more than you would be using with flyes, then new muscle growth is not going to result from those sets. The only reason you might "feel it more" during a fly is because it is an isolation movement.
Better off in terms of what? Strength and size gains...absolutey. Someone previously said that flyes may help with injury prevention. If that is true, then they may be of some benefit there.
The incline is a good exercise, but it is not as good as the flat bench for chest development and it is not as good as the overhead press for shoulders. It's more of a happy medium between the two. In Mark Rippetoe's book he mentions that if you do both overhead and flat bench pressing, then there is no need to worry about inclines. Declines allow more weight to be lifted, but they are cheat lifts because the distance you have to move the bar is shortened.
+1 on incline and flat close grip movements for the inner pecs specially if done with a close grip. But only after you have paid your respects to the big ones, flat, inclined, and dips.
Seattleite
Banned
Well of course the higher you go the more your shoulders are involved until you reach a shoulder press at 90 degrees. The higher the angle, the less weight you can use because the shoulders gradually take over.
Most people do inclines because they believe it builds a huge "upper chest." That is probably still the most popular myth around gyms today. You can't isolate the upper chest from the middle or lower chest, so all an incline is doing is taking some of the load off of the chest and letting the shoulders handle a little bit. To build the chest, stick to a flat bench. To build the shoulders, do standing presses.
Fuck guys. Can we all agree to disagree? Some of you guys need to see the big picture here. There are more ways than one to skin a cat.
agreed, if you pull up youtube and watch videos of the biggest and baddest bodybuilders, i GUARANTEE 90 something percent of them are doing a fly movement, they wouldn't waste their time if it didn't do something construction. by no means are any of use the biggest baddest, but i bet on their way to the top they used most of the same movements
drsketch
Banned
I also agree! Even Mariusz Pudzianowsky does inclined presses and he is not the type of guy who goes to the gym to fuck around or chit chat...
I believe I already said "lets agree to disagree"...
I still don't understand his logic...
He says since more weight can be done on flat bench its better...
then he says declines allow you to do more weight because its a shorter distance...
therefore...wouldn't declines be the best chest excercise according to his logic?
Okay..now I'm just being a smartass...LOL
annabolick
New member
hell yeah..you definitely have to get the big ones out of the way first...you have to get muscle first, than you can fuck around and try to cut it up!!!
Seattleite
Banned
I believe I already said "lets agree to disagree"...
I still don't understand his logic...
He says since more weight can be done on flat bench its better...
then he says declines allow you to do more weight because its a shorter distance...
therefore...wouldn't declines be the best chest excercise according to his logic?
Okay..now I'm just being a smartass...LOL
The decline press puts your body at an angle where it allows you to move a slightly greater load, however it is really a cheat lift because the movement happens over a much shorter distance than versus a flat bench. This is why Rippetoe refers to the decline as "masturbation" for ego lifters...
Seattleite
Banned
What's the problem? We're having a discussion here. No one has to read it if it bothers them...
highlander555
New member
According to Arnold in his Bodybuilding Encyclopedia... blah, blah, blah...
(just thought I'd throw that out there before someone else did)
(just thought I'd throw that out there before someone else did
)
A few things to consider here also:
you are talking about the genetic elite.
These genetic elite are also taking boatloads of drugs.
most of them may have used the same movements (again, genetic elite), but I'd bet more of them built a solid foundation by going heavy on basic compound movements, and THAT is how they built a big physique.
if they always did a routine with multiple chest movements (flat, incline, DB flat, DB incline, and finally flies), as most people do, how would they know what one movement to attribute the bulk of their growth to? Answer: they wouldn't. Just because they "feel it" more doesn't mean that was their bulk builder.
If you took 2 identical twins at exactly the same development, gave them the same diet/nutrition plan, and gave one a bench and barbell with 400 lbs of weight, and the other a bench with a whole set of DB's up to 200 lbs, and made sure the first only did bench presses and the second only did flyes, and gave them a plan to progress using heavier weights each time their bodies could adapt to use the heavier weight for the same reps, and came back in a year...I'd bet everything that the guy with the bech and barbell with 400 lbs would have a bigger chest.
desmond
New member
I don't think that's contradictory - it is analogous to saying partial squat isn't > than full squat because you can lift more, as ur using a smaller ranger of motion.
Common sense
Common sense
I believe I already said "lets agree to disagree"...
I still don't understand his logic...
He says since more weight can be done on flat bench its better...
then he says declines allow you to do more weight because its a shorter distance...
therefore...wouldn't declines be the best chest excercise according to his logic?
Okay..now I'm just being a smartass...LOL
+1
Doing flies AFTER your pressing routine can only be more beneficial than just skipping them altogether.
Seattleite
Banned
100% fallacy
mwm5 said:
Ah, but then why wouldn't you rather focus your efforts on an exercise that is more beneficial/has greater impact on growth? Instead of doing flies next, why not put a little more effort into your bench and go all out so you don't need to do flies next? If you know you're going to do flies after bench, are you holding back on your bench? Could you go just a little heavier? Could you get one or two more reps out? Could you do a 20 second static hold at the end?
Maybe instead of doing flies, you could do a single, 20 rep set of bench (using a lighter weight of course...say a weight you knew for sure you could get 12 reps with, but get 20 reps instead).
Any of the above would be more beneficial than doing flies.
Seattleite
Banned
I agree that most people save energy by not going all out on presses just to do a couple of fly moves. And that's wrong, on a normal day I will do only presses and kill it with a 20 rep set like you said. Usually after this I'm done, but there are some days I feel I can do a little more so I hit the flyes...
Nevertheless I think flyes do have their permanent place on a bodybuilding routine, specially juiced and advanced builders, USUAlLY IN BETWEEN PRESSES, while you try to give a rest to the triceps but still want to work the pecs...
I also find them a valuable addiction to the trainees who have hard time trying to take away from the tricep and shoulder recruitment to focus on the chest a little more...
The only times I do anything resembling a fly is when I am either:
a)stretching my chest, which I do every time I work chest. I use a pretty heavy weight and let my elbows sink down while keeping my sternum high, careful that I only feel the stretch in my chest and not in my shoulders. -or-
b)I may possibly do a couple sets when I am going light and ramping back up for another heavy blasting period. When I do this, I am basically resting/recovering from a very heavy lifting phase (usually about 6 weeks). Even then it's not likely though.
i don't currently do flies, but have in the past. when i am on an exercise i treat it as my last, full out, never think about keeping energy for another.
i've always played basketball a lot, i'd practice my free-throws a ton b/c even though they are only worth 1 point they still counted. if u get what i'm saying!!!! lol
highlander555
New member
SaiBoTiCa:
I'm digging your new avatar. When ever I need to work my inner chest, I just yell "Thundercats Hoooo!", and that's usually enough to get me a good pump.... or thrown out of the club.
I'm digging your new avatar. When ever I need to work my inner chest, I just yell "Thundercats Hoooo!", and that's usually enough to get me a good pump.... or thrown out of the club.
SaiBoTiCa:
I'm digging your new avatar. When ever I need to work my inner chest, I just yell "Thundercats Hoooo!", and that's usually enough to get me a good pump.... or thrown out of the club.
LOL. I'm waiting on the Tundercats motion picture as well as I'm waiting on the Dragonball's.
highlander555
New member
I love dragonballs...er, uh, i mean it's a mighty fine show.
misticat
New member
Post up pics and lets see what only one bench has done for you??
your right buddy all those other exercises are myths and people have been doing them for 50 years for no reason..
it sounds like you obviously dont know how to isolate your chest muscles in the different chest exercises.. I LOVE FLIES! i get my chest fuckin pumped with it..
stick with your one chest exercise
in all seriousness its all what your goals are man.. if you have high percent body fat and cant see the seperation between your chest muscles then thats probably why your saying flat bench only..building muscle around your upper chest collar bone is incline... good luck with your routine
heres something to consider. Do so many sets of decline bench press like 10 sets going all out 12 reps, 10, 8, 6, 12, 10, 8, 20, 15 or something like that and tell me how sore your upper chest is.
Then when your chest is fresh do all incline the same way you did decline, and tell me if your upper chest is just as sore as when you did all decline
Then when your chest is fresh do all incline the same way you did decline, and tell me if your upper chest is just as sore as when you did all decline
Seattleite
Banned
heres something to consider. Do so many sets of decline bench press like 10 sets going all out 12 reps, 10, 8, 6, 12, 10, 8, 20, 15 or something like that and tell me how sore your upper chest is.
Then when your chest is fresh do all incline the same way you did decline, and tell me if your upper chest is just as sore as when you did all decline
Totally irrelevant. The chest will still grow overall as one unit, regardless of where you place the emphasis of the load. You're not going to only grow in the "upper chest" no matter how sore you try to make it. All the incline will do is involve more of the shoulders, force you to use less weight, and will therefore lead to less stimulation/growth directly to the chest. The decline is a much shorter range of motion, which makes it the "half squat" (to use someone else's example) of the bench press variety.
Actually, you CAN grow the upper chest apart from the mid/lower chest(one unit). Look at an anatomy chart of the muscular system. Your pec is divided about 2/3 the way up your chest. Upper pectoral and lower pectoral.
There are many people who do not have an appealing chest, even with good size, because their upper pec is undeveloped. It gives the chest an almost sagging (muscle boobs) appeareance. Incline is the only way to get a full and tight good looking chest.
Search for khemix's profile pic and you will see his chest is full, sits high and tight. He has a great chest.
Actually, you CAN grow the upper chest apart from the mid/lower chest(one unit). Look at an anatomy chart of the muscular system. Your pec is divided about 2/3 the way up your chest. Upper pectoral and lower pectoral.
There are many people who do not have an appealing chest, even with good size, because their upper pec is undeveloped. It gives the chest an almost sagging (muscle boobs) appeareance. Incline is the only way to get a full and tight good looking chest.
Search for khemix's profile pic and you will see his chest is full, sits high and tight. He has a great chest.[/QUOTE
Bro forget it no matter how hard you try, you are not going to convince seatleite because he is, how can I say it... dogmatic...
Actually, you CAN grow the upper chest apart from the mid/lower chest(one unit). Look at an anatomy chart of the muscular system. Your pec is divided about 2/3 the way up your chest. Upper pectoral and lower pectoral.
There are many people who do not have an appealing chest, even with good size, because their upper pec is undeveloped. It gives the chest an almost sagging (muscle boobs) appeareance. Incline is the only way to get a full and tight good looking chest.
Search for khemix's profile pic and you will see his chest is full, sits high and tight. He has a great chest.[/QUOTE
Bro forget it no matter how hard you try, you are not going to convince seatleite because he is, how can I say it... dogmatic...
He is extremly opinionated, and that is called, what we say in the athletic world, uncoachable.
Just look at a picture of a pectoral muscle chart. Even look at BBers in contest condition. You can see that the chest attaches at many different angles across the ribcage and sternum.
Incline pressing WILL target the upper portion of the chest more directly and give you better upper chest development. you can even feel it with your hands if you do the motion of flat and incline press, that the incline involves the upper chest WAY MORE than the flat bench does. It's true, a fact, and anyone's opinion can't change that. He can think what he wants, and call foul at flys and incline pressing all he wants, but in the end, he is the one who will not benefit from doing them.
Now, as for inner chest devleopment, there is no way to get your inner chest to fill in by itself. That comes with development of the chest as a whole.
highlander555
New member
God, I don't even know why I'm still posting on this, but I can't help myself.
First of all, there is no upper or lower chest. There is the Pectoralis Major and the Pectoralis Minor. The Pectoralis Minor you can't even really see, or work with any sort of bench movement.
As a thrower, I like to do inclines as it more closely mimics the motion of throwing a shot put. It does place more stress on the shoulders, which is cool with me because that's benificial to my sport.
That being said, the muscle is the muscle, an it can only contract wholy, or not at all. I don't believe in the whole upper and lower emphesis mumbo jumbo.
Man, this is just like the "how can I improve my bicep peak/lower bicep/outter quad" debates, and I don't even know why I bother to pipe in any more. It seems like some people are so set in their opinions that no amount of scientific fact is going to change their minds.
Oh well, peace out bros, and good luck with your training. :}
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Seattleite
Banned
How exactly am I more opinionated than you? We have 2 opposing opinions on how to train the chest, yet because mine is different than yours then I'm somehow the stubborn one? I think in the real world that is what we call narcissistic.
So, the most concetrated part of your quad is at the top, how does this translate into what exercise you should do? Incline leg extensions? Basically, the shape of a muscle is genetic, and the pec is no exception. For all functional purposes it is one muscle, and should be trained as such.
As for the anatomy of the chest, the pectorals major is split into the clavicular and sternal portions, the anatomically upper chest is the clavicular and it's much smaller than the sternal which is anatomically the lower chest. Unfortunately the sternal and clavicular portions cannot be separately targeted short of breaking your neck, thereby severing one of the innervations.
Hey, if what you do works for you, that's fine.
Your example of the quad doesn't fit here. You can only move your leg one way. Straight out. And the quad is 4 separate muscles, hence "Quad". Your quad functions more like the tricep. Not a pectoral. Two completely different animals.
You can hold your arms and press at several angles. Pressing straight out does not fully involve the upper portion of the muscle, which in turn means less upper pectoral stimulation, and less growth. Incline pressing will stimulate the upper portion of the muscle better than a flat press, therefore giving it better growth.
I'm not saying you can train only the upper chest by itself either. All I'm saying is the incline press involves the upper portions of th emuscle more than the flat press does.
But you're right, the pec should be trained as one muscle. And doing flat & incline presses and flys is how you train that one muscle properly for best development.
Ok so... by the idea of "muscle contract as a whole and no emphasis can be placed on the desire part of the muscle" I should just do deadlifts and over head presses and voila all set... because deadlifts work lower body and upper body and it's actually a push pull movement all in one exercise. And the overhead press will work the shoulder gridle as well as pecs and triceps... So I won't be needing the bodybuilding bullshit right? Iluminate me please, i'm so confused right now... My whole world just collapsed right there after those posts.
highlander555
New member
Ok so... by the idea of "muscle contract as a whole and no emphasis can be placed on the desire part of the muscle" I should just do deadlifts and over head presses and voila all set... because deadlifts work lower body and upper body and it's actually a push pull movement all in one exercise. And the overhead press will work the shoulder gridle as well as pecs and triceps... So I won't be needing the bodybuilding bullshit right? Iluminate me please, i'm so confused right now... My whole world just collapsed right there after those posts.
THe world just imploded! AHHHHHHHHH!
Though I know you're joking, I think you're closer to the truth than you may think. I think people would be surprised how much benifit they could get if they did nothing but a deadlift and an overhead press.
While the deadlift (IMO) hits up the back, hips, traps, and shoulders, I would also include the squat in with it to fully his the legs.
And while the overhead press hits up the shoulders, traps, and to some degree the chest, I'd still throw in a benching movement.
So... in your humorous senario, I'd say only deadlifting, overhead pressing, squating and benching would probably give you better results than the typical BB workouts printed in muscle and fiction (keep in mind, I'm talking about the average person).
SaiBoT- you're a trip bro. It's always fun to debate someone who, though they may not agree with you, can at least present their opinion in an inteligent manner. Keep it up!
Seattleite
Banned
Any lifts outside of these is probably just a waste of time:
Squats
Deadlifts
Bench Press
Overhead Press (standing)
Bent-Over Rows
Weighted Dips
Chins
and maybe some core work, although I think your core gets enough work from all of the squatting and pulling...
Squats
Deadlifts
Bench Press
Overhead Press (standing)
Bent-Over Rows
Weighted Dips
Chins
and maybe some core work, although I think your core gets enough work from all of the squatting and pulling...
Seattleite
Banned
Okay, well I have to agree with this, but here's where I take it a step further.
Scenario:
I do my deadlifts, my squats, by bench, my overheads and my BB rows. All the basic compound movements that are key for solid growth, thickness and gains. They in proven fact proivide th most growth stimulation throughtout the body and you CAN get big just by doing these.
They are taken care of, they are the foundation of my routine.
Then I go and do curls, tricep extensions, leg exstentions, wrist curls, flies, and all the other dinky little nic nat movements on top of my foundational routine.
It can only be more beneficial to the body to do those as well.
I do take issue with the dinks at the gym that think they are gonna get 18" arms by doing 50 sets of curls at 20 different wrist angles. that's a bunch of shit.
Now, lets get back to the topic of pressing.
Sit up straight in your chair, stick your arm straight out, pull it back, put your other hand over your upper pec and push straight forward. Feel how much of the upper pec is involved in the motion. It is definitley getting some stimulation. Now, do the same movement again, but this time press upwards at about 20 degree angle. You can feel the upper portion of the pec is now the key portion of the muscle being contracted and the lower half seems almost uninvolved.
Besides all the back and forth ideas spewing, we all know that the pro bodybuilders do incline pressing. Why would they do that? Wouldn't they be better off just doing more flat pressing? Obviously, the answer is NO. I'm not saying you should design your routine after theirs, but they do the dinky little isolation movements and extra angles because they matter in bodybuilding. They make a difference.
If you are a powerlifter, incline pressing doesn mean anything for you. Stick to shoulder pressing and flat bench. If you are a body builder, it counts and it makes a difference in your body's development.
If they are a waste of time, then what is Jay Cutler, Dexter Jackson, Ronnie Coleman, Dorian Yates and Kevin Levrone (and 100's of other IFBB pros) doing in the gym wasting all their precious time doing isolation work?
If you can tell me why and how they are wasting their time dong curls, extensions and raises over various types, I'll admit I was wrong and give you 10,000 K.
Seattleite
Banned
Changing the angle of a lift can cause a shift in emphasis on the fibers of certain muscle groups, mainly those with multiple heads such as the biceps, pectoralis, deltoid, etc. HOWEVER that emphasis will NOT result in any variance in the growth or contractile strength of that muscle, with SOME exceptions.
Take the deltoids for example...
The deltoid can be effected in this way because it has three heads, each of which is responsible for a different anatomical function. The anterior head performs shoulder flexion and transverse abduction, along with internal rotation, and it assists with transverse flexion. The posterior head performs extension, transverse abduction and external rotation. The medial head aids the other two.
This is a rare exception however, because not only do each of the three heads have a different origin and share a common insertion on the humerus, but they perform different functions. That's the key here. Same goes for the pectorals, though in a different fashion.
The pectoralis major does have two heads. It differs from the deltoid in that both heads perform the same functions.
The sternal head performs transverse flexion, transverse adduction, internal rotation, adduction, and extension of the shoulder joint, and assists the scapula with downward rotation, depression, and abduction. The clavicular head performs transverse flexion, transverse adduction, internal rotation, adduction, flexion, and abduction of the shoulder joint.
The differences are negligible between the two, and in fact, the only differences are that the clavicular head aids in flexion and abduction of the shoulder joint.
BUT, if your anterior and medial delts have any kind of strength, that involvement will be minimal, and in fact if you do any kind of pressing movements, the recruitment will be no different regardless of angle.
Any difference noted between incline and flat pressing movements is sheerly a result of the pectoralis minor, which is responsible for scapular abduction.
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i have a theory... Big chest = bench press and time.. and most people who want a big chest havent put in the time yet required and want to shorten that time by using magic lifts that will become a short cut.. thats my idea atleast
like if u lifted for 5 solid years and did like the 5x5 program youd assume the person would have a pretty solid chest right?
like if u lifted for 5 solid years and did like the 5x5 program youd assume the person would have a pretty solid chest right?
Lol
I was just taking it to the extreme... Anyway some "isolation" is needed... Andy Bolton does shoulder rises, Ed Cohan does cable triceps extensions, Louie Simmons also includes california presses and close grip overhead presses to better stimulate tricep lateral head, Charles Poliquin includes reverse grip and fly moves on his protocols, Bill Starr includes lateral rises for strength,(this one goes to the Seattleite--->) Pudzianowsky does inclined benches.Those guys got famous because they know their shit not because they went to the gym to fuck around.
Another one: rotator cuff exercises are also needed and they are considered "isolation" moves.
Taking the flyes as an example: those don't allow you to lift a big weight because of the line of force is not the same as it is on a press, by doing flyes you remove the tension from the triceps and give it to the pecs, pecs alone can't lift as much as if they had the tricep involvment. And also by doing flyes your arms will be farther away from your core, thus decreasing the ability to lift a big weight, nevertheless your pecs will get stronger and grow because they are being stimulated on their weakest point (which by that I mean full estension at shoulder height).
By no mean I'm saying that "isolation" work is the best. If I had to choose between single joint and multi-joint, Obviously I would stick to the tested and aproved big compounds. Nevertheless if you wanna unleash your truly potential, you have to include those single joint as part of the whole picture.
Seattleite
Banned
I have no problem with incline presses. It's a great exercise for the shoulders and chest. I just take issue with the viewpoint that you can somehow grow your upper chest apart from the middle or lower part of your chest. If you want to focus on the chest, do flat benching and dips. If you want to focus on the shoulders, do overhead presses. An incline press is a happy marriage between the flat and overhead presses, but it is not good as flat pressing for the chest and its not as good as overhead pressing for the shoulders. That is my only point.
I got you bro
Actually today I did bench presses, low incline Y flyes and inclined dumbell presses. It was a good workout... usually I stick to bench and inclined presses, but I need the flyes for the stretch and the pump, once in a while keeps me from boredom.
