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Lab Rat

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This is a cut and paste from another board, i found it informative and a good read

Lab Rat

back to my training concepts--Ive stated how my whole goal is to continually get stronger on key exercises=getting continually bigger. I will state this, the method I am about to describe is what I have found that makes people grow at the absolutely fastest rate possible and why I am being inundated down in this area to train people. Its going to go against the grain but I'm making people grow about 2 and a half times as fast the normal rate so bear with me.

A typical workout for the masses is (lets use chest for an example) doing a bodypart once every 7 days (once a week)and sometimes even once every 9 days or more. This concept came to the front due to recovery reasoning and I agree with most typical workouts your going to need a great deal of recovery.

Heres the problem---lets say you train chest once a week for a year and you hypothetically gain 1/64 of an inch in pectoral thickness from each workout. At the end of the year you should be at 52/64 ( or 13/16 ). Almost an inch of thickness (pretty good).

To build muscle we are trying to lift at a high enough intensity and load to grow muscle but with enough recovery so the muscle remodels and grows. The problem is everyone is loading up on the volume end of training and its taking away from the recovery part of it.
You can train in a way so you can train chest 3 times every nine days and you will recover and grow faster than ever. If you train chest 3 times in 9 days you are now doing chest roughly 136 times a year! So instead of 52 growth phases you are now getting 136 growth phases a year. I personally would rather grow 136 times a year than 52. At a hypothetical 1/64th of an inch per workout you are now at 136/64 (or roughly 2.1 inches of thickness). So now your growing at roughly 2 and a half times as fast as normal people who are doing modern day workouts are. Most people train chest with 3 to 4 exercises and wait the 7-9 days to recover and that is one growth phase. I use the same 3 to 4 exercises but do chest 3 times during those 9 days and get 3 growth phases. Everyone knows a muscle either contracts or doesnt--you cannot isolate a certain part of it (you can get into positions that present better mechanical advantages though that put a focus on certain deep muscle fibers)--for example incline presses vs flat presses. One huge mistake beginning bodybuilders make is they have a "must" principle instilled in them. They feel they "must" do this exercise and that exercise and this many sets or they wont grow. GOOD GOD THIS IS VERY HARD TO EXPLAIN BY TYPING IT ALL OUT ON A MESSAGE BOARD

how I set bodybuilders workouts up is I have them pick either their 3 favorite exercises for each bodypart or better yet the exercises they feel will bring up their weaknessess the most. For me my chest exercises are high incline smythe machine press, hammer seated flat press and slight incline smythe press with hands very very wide----this is because I look at my physique and I feel my problem area is upper and outer pecs---that is my focus.

I set up the program like this








Stay with me here--Your only doing one exercise per muscle group per day. Your doing your first favorite exercise for chest on day one--your doing your second favorite exercise for chest on day four and your third exercise for chest on day seven. Your doing the same exercises you would be doing anyway in a weeks time and training chest 3 times in that week(or nine days) with minimal sets so you can recover. You cannot do a 3-5 exercise chest workout and recover to train chest again 3 days later. Absolutely impossible!! You can come in and do 2-3 warmup sets up to your heaviest set and then do one working set (rest paused) all out balls to the wall on that exercise --recover and grow and be ready again 3 days later.

Example Day one
first exercise smythe incline presses (ill use the weights i use for example)
135 for warmup for 12--185 for 8 warmup--225 for 6-8 warmup-----then 375 for 8 reps to total absolute failure (then 12-15 deep breaths) 375 for 2-4 reps to total absolute failure (then 12-15 deep breaths) 375 for 1-3 reps to absolute total failure (then a 20-30 second static hold) DONE!--thats it 375lbs for 8+4+3= 375 for 15 reps rest paused..... next week I go for 385 (again rest paused)-----directly after that rest pause set I go to extreme stretching flyes as described earlier in this post and thats it for chest and on to shoulders, triceps and back........the next day I come in to do chest would be day 4 and i would do hammer flat presses in the same rest paused manner (and then extreme stretching again)---the next day i come in to do chest is day seven and I would do my third favorite exercise rest paused and then the cycle repeats. Three chest workouts in nine days with low enough volume to recover in between workouts and high enough intensity and load to grow rapidly--my workouts last an hour--im doing one exercise for one all out balls to the wall rest pause set (i dont count warmups only the working set) ---so in simple terms I am using techniques with extreme high intensity(rest pause) which i feel make a persons strength go up as quickly as possible + low volume so i can (recover) as quickly as possible with as many growth phases (damage/remodel/recover)I can do in a years time --Before you disregard this because it is so utterly different, think it out ok ill hit more on this later...I have to go eat, im starving

Anomynous said :Sounds pretty good. I can see some HD or yates influence. Also I like the Idea of hitting chest 3x/9days.

Doggcrapp: Actually some of you who know of me probaly know I was talking about this same kind of training back about 7-8 years ago...Just in case any of you were confused every bodypart is hit 3 times in 9 days and advanced techniques such as rest pause is used (if it can be used)....Some exercises like hack squats and some back rowing exercises dont allow themselves to rest pausing too well. A sample coupld of days for me would be the following (im not including warmup sets--just working sets)
Day 1
CHEST:smythe incline 375 x 15 reps rest pause (RP)and 20 second static rep at end
SHOULDERS front smythe press-330 x 13RP
TRICEPS-reverse grip bench 315 for 15-20 reps rest paused
Back width: rear pulldowns to back of head 300 x 18RP (20 second static at end)
Back thickness: deadlifts straight set of 12-20 reps (less weight than ronnie coleman thats for sure--anyone see those 805lb deadlifts for reps he does?)

Day 2
BICEPS- dumbell curls rest paused for 20 reps
FOREARMS--hammer curls rest paused for 15
CALVES -on hack squat straight set for 12 reps but with a 20 second negative phase
HAMSTRINGS-lying leg curl rest paused for 15-20 reps and then 20 second static at end
QUADS-hack squat straight set of 6 plates each side for 20 reps (of course after warming up)

DAY THREE IS OFF --Day four and five is same as day one with same concepts but different exercises (and again the same with days seven and eight)

every exercise is done with a controlled but explosive positive and a true 6-10 second negative phase. And the absolutely most important thing of any of this is I write down all weights and reps done from the working set on a notepad (and every time i go into the gym i have to continually look back and beat the previous times reps/weight or both)---If I cant or I dont beat it, no matter if I love doing the exercise or not, I have to change to a new exercise. Believe me this adds a grave seriousness, a clutch performance or imperiativeness to a workout. I have exercises I love to do and knowing I will lose them if I dont beat the previous stats sucks! But there is a method to this madness because when you get to that wall of sticking point of strength (AND YOU WILL, THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN HACK SQUAT UP TO 50 PLATES A SIDE) that is when your muscle=strength gains will stop.....and you must turn to a different exercise and get strong on that one. And then someday you will peak out on that one too. You can always come back to that loved exercise in the future and youll start somewhat low and build up to a peak again--and trust me that peak will be far more than the previous one. Some exercises youll stay with and gain strength at for almost up to a year and some exercises youll be at the limit in 4 weeks and lose them but its all in the plan. I love reverse grip bench presses--knowing that I have to beat 315 for 17 reps rest paused or else I have to change to maybe dips next time puts a serious sense of urgency into workouts. I either have to beat it by doing something to the effect of 320 for 15 rest paused or if i stick with 315, I have to get at least 19 reps rest paused or so. If im feeling crappy or having an offday I might give myself a little leeway and allow myself another go at it next time around but thats it. The notepad is your intensity level, how badly you want to keep doing an exercise will be how hard you push to beat the previous. Looking at that piece of paper knowing what you have to do to beat it will bring out the best in you. Again its all in the plan to make you the strongest bodybuilder possible which will equal out into the biggest bodybuilder possible.

iron addict said:Now good luck on convincing people one set can be enough. We both know most people are mesmerized by the SHIT they read in the BB mags and truly beleive that they must do 9-20 sets per BP with 3 or 4 different excercises. What they ignore is that the intensity is to low and the volume to high for any real growth to occur

Doggcrapp: that is about the truest statement Ive ever read.......I find myself irritated when I see people say "genetics"--its amazing to me that at 19 I was 6 foot and 137lbs (yes 137) and eating 6 meals a day and people would laugh at me the stickboy trying to be a bodybuilder. I seriously did not miss a meal for my first 3 and a half years, I would set my alarm at 2am and wake up and eat scrambled eggs and pancakes if I missed a meal during the day. Two years later I looked "normal" at 196lbs or so. Two years just to look like a normal person! I kept bombing away, eating and not taking no as an answer and now I am up at 300lbs and people say "you must of always been big" and genetics. Thats tough for me to hear thinking how psyched I was to weigh more than 170 at one point. Ive only trained one true mesomorph. Mesomorphs dont need trainers usually. I train ectomorphs and endomorphs. The last 3 people Ive trained have been a pudgey mexican who was 172 (now 258lbs hard)--a skinny marine, and a guy stuck at 188lbs for many years (now 260). These people all thought the same thing seeing how my workouts were set up-"am i doing enough?"--If you can show someone how to train so hard that they realize they were holding back tremendously during their 8-20 set workouts, thats half the battle. The other half is making them realize how impossible it is to do 8-20 sets per bodypart if you truly truly train balls to the wall hard. Personally if I do a 20 rep hack squat with slag iron heavy 10 reps I am seriously doubting I am going to make it---at 14 reps im seeing colors---at 17 reps im asking god for help--and the last 3 reps are life, death, or rigor mortis---I know for a fact that there is no way in hell I could do another 4-5 sets of hacks like that. I gave everything I had right there on that set. If I can do another 4-5 sets like that Im cruising at 70% at the most. Basically Im trying to get people to grow 136 times a year instead of 52, with the one working set per bodypart every 3 days and the stretching.

anomynous said:My view on training is that anything will work for a while, within reason and barring exeptional circumstances. I believe things must be changed--cycled, if you must use that term--and that no training style will "work" if it is continuously applied.

Doggcrapp:I disagree strongly on that. No matter what the method someone uses to gain super strength gains-its imperiative they do so. If you put someone out on a deserted island with 135lbs of weights he can superset, giant set, high rep, superslow etc etc squats, deadlifts and benches to his hearts delight...the sad story is his gains will quickly come to a halt because his limiting factor is amount of strength he will gain. He has 135lbs to work with. You take that same guy on a deserted island and give him squats deadlifts, and benches and an unlimited weight supply that he constantly pushes-- In 5 years i'll show you a big Gilligan.
I think the biggest fallacy in bodybuilding is "changing up" "keeping the body off balance"--you can keep the body off balance by always using techniques or methods that give your body a reason to get bigger=strength. If you dont write down your weights and every time you come into the gym you go by feel and do a different workout (like 98% of the gym members who never change do now) what has that done? Lets say Mr gym member does 235 for 9 on the bench press this week, "tries to keep his body guessing" by doing 80lbs for 13 on flyes next week, 205 for 11 on inclines the week after, 245 on hammer press for 12 the week after that --and so on---there is only a limited number of exercises you can do. Two months later when he does bench presses again and does 235 for 8 or 9 has he gained anything--absolutely not. Four months later he does hammer presses for 245 for 11 (again) do you think he has given his body any reason to change?
Take 2 twins and have one do a max squat for 20 reps and the other twin giant set 4 leg exercises with the same weight. All year long have the first twin blast away until he brings his squat for 20 reps from 150 to 400lbs. Have the second twin giant set four exercises every workout with the same weight he used in his first workout all year long. Believe me he is going to be sore and he will be shocking the body every time but he will not gain shit after about the third leg workout. Because the load didnt change. There is no reason for his legs to grow in size due to the strength demand presented. The first twin who can now squat 400 for 20 is going to have some wheels. I use rest pause because in my opinion it is the utmost method to rapidly gain strength. Others might like a different method--thats up to them, doesnt matter as long as they are rapidly gaining strength. I try to bring someone through the shortest but intense workout they can to produce rapid strength increases--use glutamine, extreme stretching and 3 days for recovery, and then try to make them grow again. If your gaining appreciable strength on an exercise with a certain method I think the ABSOLUTELY WORSE THING YOU CAN DO is to change up right then. Take that exercise and method to its strength limit and then when you get there then change to a different exercise (and maybe method) and get strong as f#cking hell on that one too.

maximus said: now if this person is a high level athlete then they have benifited from the cerebellar enhancement and neurological facilitation and plasticity and they may well reach 100% of muscle fiber recruitment on both a single effort and in a single set..

Doggcrapp: This is how I show someone the intensity they should be putting into every exercise and it really opens some eyes up quickly in the people I train. Either next quad workout or next time you dont feel like doing your normal leg workout, be true to yourself and take the number of plates you load up on the leg press for a hardcore 10 reps deep ---cut it exactly in half and do one set of 50 reps deep. So if your bragging to everyone that you can do 12 plates on each side for 10 then guess what your going to be doing - 6 a side for 50. And you know what-- everyone reading this can do the 50 reps, it just comes down to who has the most balls or not. You cannot lock your knees the whole set and you cannot rest your hands on your knees either. I try to get 25 first and then pause at the top (with knees slightly bent) and take 5 deep breaths and then get 10 more (5 deep breaths) and 5 more.(im at 40 now)..then the last 10 reps is pure tortuous hell...i usually do 3 reps (take 3 breaths)3 more reps, 3 more breaths, then 2 reps (3 deep breaths) and finally the last 2 reps=50 reps. Your legs will be absolutely destroyed and you better start stretching or walking the next day is going to be an adventure. My best ever was about 3 years ago I got 7 plates a side for 50 and i go deep (knees to armpits deep). The people that I have seen who cannot make it to 50 are people who dont have the mental fortitude to take pain and get pissed off or someone who starts to cramp. But youll learn alot from that one set, you will learn the intensity it takes to approach every set on every other bodypart and exercise you do.

Iwrecknsew said: what about recovery of the CNS? Yeah your muscles are being given ample time for recovery, but what about your nervous system? Does that come during the two week cruising period?

I recently found I was just overtrained. I had no appetite. I had no sex drive(even though I was on 800mg test/wk). i was sleepy all the time. I was doing something similar, except for maybe "a little" more volume. I was doing two working sets. My muscles were fine, but I wasn't getting any bigger or stronger, just staying the same. All I can guess is that my CNS was burned out? Any thoughts?

Doggcrapp: Without knowing your exact routine its hard to say. I use extreme stretching and an abundance of glutamine to help my recovery ability. Some of your symptoms sound like a higher estro amount in the body too. As far as CNS my personal opinion is I think 20 sets of a hard leg workout stresses out my central nervous system far more than a total 5 set workout of half my body. The two biggest mistakes I ever made were when I believed in the whole "you must" do this and that thing. When I got to about 200lbs of bodyweight I started doing 3 on one day off workouts with 8-16 sets per bodypart. Sometimes my workouts went to 3 and a half hours (like on leg day). I just believed you must do this exercise for outer quad and this exercise for inner chest and that exercise for lower pec etc etc etc --a complete waste of two years lifting for me. Insomnia (CNS) and severe overtraining, exhausted all the time, loss of appetite etc...I feel sorry for beginning bodybuilders because no matter what they read or who they listen too its so hard to convince them that "you seriously dont have to do alot to grow" --you just have to do it short, heavy, and intense and let protein and recovery take its course. Usually a newbie bodybuilder's enthusiasm wins out over his deductive reasoning and he wastes about 2-3 years of lifting or gives up altogether. The other mistake I made was-I was freinds with Duchaine (he lived like 4 miles from me) and after alot of arguing back and forth of our different approaches to dieting, I gave his nutrient dense repartitioning diet a chance for a year. Gained about a lb of muscle. Never again. I know the human body doesnt like to dramatically change unless you dramatically give it reasons too (like 550 grams of protein per day)

NPC said:COuld you tell me a little more about rep ranges on each muscle and about traing rear delts abs lower back and cardio.

doggcrapp: On rep ranges i find that sometimes with rest pausing people fall into too low a rep range trap...where they are getting 7-8 reps rest paused. Thats fine some of the time or on your first week at an exercise where your going to beat the rep range next time, but I dont like people hitting 3+2+2 rest paused indefinitely. They would be doing essential heavy triples on the first part of that rest pause set and Id rather they not open themselves up to a potential injury.
The rep ranges I like are (from lowest to highest)
chest-12 (6+4+2) to 20 (10+6+4) rest paused--

99% of the time I am right in the 15RP range which is (8+4+3) hypothetically as I have no idea what reps I am going to reach failure on.
I essentially lift the opposite that other people lift. I try like hell to push the weight up SO I CAN LOWER IT DOWN SLOW (as that is as most people know--the eccentric and where the most productive muscle building effect is taking place to put it in simple terms). Most people will do an incline press--go to positive failure thinking they wont get one more positive rep so they rack the bar up top, but me at that point I lower the bar 6-10 seconds down, and rack it at the bottom. Thats my failure point. (think about it--do that 3 times during a rest pause set and youve gained 3 eccentric reps)
shoulders=12 to 20RP (15rp is again what i shoot for and is the most common)
triceps 12rp to 20 rp
back width-12rp to 20rp
back thickness-(depends on exercise--if its rack deadlifts or bent over rows Ill do 12 to 15 reps rest paused. If its deadlifts from the floor Ill do a straight set 12 to 20 heavy)

biceps-15 to 20 reps restpaused
forearms/brachilias-depends on movement
calves (described earlier on this thread)
hamstrings-15 to 20 restpaused
quads-a straight 15 to 50 reps heavy as I can possibly go (usually its 20 reps)

rear delts-i do movements in my training now (deadlifts, bent over rows reverse grip, stiff legged deadlifts and rack deadlifts) that I feel are hitting my rear delts hard and heavy enough so I dont feel I need to do bent over laterals. If im doing rack deadlifts and squeezing and arching backwards the whole top quarter of the movement with 600 plus lbs I really dont think some 30lb bent over laterals are going to make my rear delts grow better than that.

Lower back--deadlifts (rack and floor) same notion--100lb hyperextension vs high rep heavy weight deadlifts --Ill take the deadlifts

cardio--dont do it presently because I have a tough time gaining weight (have tried to do it 2-3 times a week in past about 3 times now and I cannot gain weight)--. Someone else might have to definitely include it in their weekly repertoire in offseason though. I have definite opinions on precontest cardio though.

abs-i believe in straight sets with progressive weights 15 to 30 reps. I have a busy gym and usually do them while waiting for a machine. Which gives me about 2 sets of 2 different exercises (leg raises, partial situp) per workout

SPE:Hey doggcrap, can you explain how you do rest pause?

Doggcrapp: Most people do rest pausing at a lower rep scale. I try to have people do it at 6 to 12 reps complete failure (then 12-15 deep breaths) another 2-5 reps to failure (then 12-15 deep breaths) and then a final 1-3 to failure. Dont count each one as a set--the whole thing together is a rest pause set. The lowest rest pause you'll probaly do is a 10RP which would be something like (5+3+2). My personal opinion is 15RP works best (8+4+3)--but experiment and see what you like. You can think of rest pausing like you do with squats...usually you get really tired and then you try to take in 3-5 deep breaths and try a couple more reps, and again 3-5 deep breaths and a couple more reps. Almost like a break in the set to get in more reps. Well with rest pausing you are(lets use benching for example)...taking a weight in which you could do for 8 reps to failure and now instead of getting just 8 reps with it--you are going on with the set and getting 15 reps total with it. A complete overload and what will the result be? A bigger chest because 15 reps was done and 8 was supposed to be the limit.

Mondo:My goal is to hit +/-250lbs at 8% bf. This is going to be a real hurdle for me since at 27 I was only 238. I problem lies with trying to calculate the amt of protein and glutamine that I will need to get me there. Some say, 1 1/2 per current lb of body weight while others say 1 1/2 x the goal weight. What do you think? Also, how much glutamine etc...

Doggcrapp: Mondo I find 9.5 out of 10 times that someone stops gaining its his diet that is the problem. Eight out of 10 times that same lifter wrongly thinks he is overtraining or his workouts are off. The other 2 out of 10 times that person thinks his supplements or 'juice' is the problem. I keep trying to brainwash people SUPPLY AND DEMAND, SUPPLY AND DEMAND--if you can make a demand (hard enough training) you can meet the supply (abundance of protein grams). I love when people come to me with this problem of not making gains anymore and they go thru this intricate workout, supplement, and sauce fix and all i say is "double the serving size on all your protein drinks and make sure the post workout drink is 100grams at least." Boom! they take off gaining again. I know you don't know me from adam but trust me on this one. Food (protein) is your anabolic. Anyone in this forum who is at a true stalemate, I ask you to try 500 grams a day of protien for 6 months and then come back in here and tell me what you look like. Training is the engine, food (protein) is the gasoline and juice is the Nitrous oxide system. Mondo i would say hit 2 grams per lb of bodyweight that you want to be=500grams. That could be about 200-250 in protein drink grams and you can easily eat the rest

spe:DC, I like your protein advice. How important do you think the carb and fat cals are? Do you think gaining muslce is more dependent on protein intake, total calorie intake, or both?

doggcrapp: Well if your not meeting your energy requirements some of the protein your ingesting is going to be used as a fuel source. I like omega-3's (flaxseeds) and extra virgin olive oils (mono unsaturated fat)--118 calories per tablespoon. I throw 2-3 tablespoons in my morning and afternoon shakes but not in the post workout or bedtime ones (self explanatory). Go slow with olive oil or you will be seatbelting yourself to the toilet the first couple days. As far as diet I am like Palumbo in that aspect...I like high protein, moderate (good) fats and low to moderate carbs..I eat the amount of protein grams I want to ingest first and if its before 6-7pm I satisfy the rest of my hunger with carbs. If I go to mcdonalds I'll blast as many hamburgers as I can and skip the fries. (laughing) but true. After 6-7pm I will go high protein and trace to low carbs (example huge steak and alot of a vegetable but no rice, pasta or bread). This is the way I have found thru trial and error that I can keep myself and people I train fairly lean but still have them gaining at the highest rate. Im sorry im not a calorie counter at all. Im a protein gram counter. I weigh myself and others once a month on the same scale and if they are not gaining I already know they are on high protein so I fix the problem with added mono unsat's (olive oil), flaxseeds and some extra carbs here or there. I trained a 188 lb (former cornerback-NFL only one year) and got him up to 232 and then he stopped gaining. I tried everything to get him going again but after his protein intake I just couldnt get him to put enough food down the hatch. And I really got on his ass about it too. He was burning up every thing. He loved ice cream and I said fuck it--get your protein in but pound down 1/2 gallon to a gallon a day before 6pm--he did and very quickly after that shot up up to 265 or so (with striations everywhere still). Moral of the story? I got no idea--dont follow that method.

second part to the question--i think gaining muscle is most dependant on protein along with hydration and glutamine intake AS LONG AS the BMR/energy requirments are met.

Chest Rockwell:This sounds like a program that I followed clean for two months. Even w/o anabolics, lifting for strength and proper nutrition put 16 pounds on (prob 12 lbm) in that time.
But, I have swayed back to the old periodization principles that we have all been brainwashed with. I like the sound of this program, and I plan on following it. A few questions though for Doggcrapp: How much of an increase should we look to add a week in terms of weights? When we pause, do you mean rack the weight after the initial 8 reps, take 15 deep breaths, then fire out 5-6 more then rack and take deep breaths again, then finish? I believe I understand the principal to an extent, but I want to be sure. Thanks

Doggcrapp; Again the bigger the strength increase will be, the bigger the eventual size increase will be. Personally I have to beat my previous by either 2 reps or I have to add weight and at the very least get the minimum number of reps I allow myself rest paused on that exercise (or like previously stated I lose that exercise). If you find yourself blasting for weeks on end gaining just a rep here and a pound there, I think that is a waste of time--the gains will be coming too slow. Somewhat rapid increases are what we are striving for. If you really put your mind to it you can make rapid strength increases on any exercise and you can make those 2 rep or 5lb (at least)jumps for a lengthy amount of time. Here I'll give you an abbreviated version of what I am looking for
day 1--paramount shoulder press (warmups)
and then 185X14RP (which was a 8+4+2 or something to that effect) twelve is the lowest I will allow myself on this movement, twenty is the highest)---the next time you would do paramount shoulder press again would be
day 10--paramount shoulder press (warmups)
day 20--paramount shoulder press (warmups)
day 30--paramount shoulder press (warmups)
day 40--paramount shoulder press (warmups)
day 50--paramount shoulder press (warmups)
day 60--paramount shoulder press (warmups)
day 70--paramount shoulder press (warmups)

In the real world I doubt you would of bombed out there, I bet you would of made it up somewhere around 240 to 260 before bombing out(but im not typing all that)

Second part of question--rest pause is done exactly like this (ill use the paramount shoulder press again) every rep done is 6-8 seconds down and fast up

You do 185lbs to total failure (which we will hypothetically say is 8 reps ok) FINISH ON THE NEGATIVE-rack the weight and start breathing as deeply as you can to get as much oxygen in for 12 to 15 deep breaths (during this time you might or your training partner might be getting whatever exercise your doing ready for you again--like both of you bringing the bar back to the top again etc)
I say 15 deep breaths but I want that whole time period to last maybe 20 seconds tops so depending on your breathing 12 to 15 deep breaths
You went to failure with 185, you racked on the negative, took 15 deep breaths, and now you take the 185 again and go to complete failure again (lets say hypothetically failure was 4 reps)DO THE NEGATIVE PORTION 8 SECONDS DOWN AND RACK IT--15 more deep breaths, then 185 again to total failure FINISH ON THE NEGATIVE AND RACK IT. Depending on your recovery ability, the exercise and if your an advanced trainer or not instead of racking it at the very end you can "try" (and I say try) to hold the weight in a static hold for 20 seconds just before racking it(good luck you'll be shaking like a leaf at that point--I've had some words come out of my mouth trying to hold my static that could hit a triple word score on scrabble)

groan4u:Dogg,you have gotten me all fired up with all of this knowledge!!!I really appreciate you sharring this with us.This is the kind of info I look for when I'm on the boards.True ,down to earth ,gut busting training with proper nutrition and no no bells and whistles. Thanks Dogg. One question...where do orals come into play in your program or do they?

doggcrapp: Well one thing I know I keep saying but I truly believe in is guys pretty much know what you can do, what you like to do, and whats going on in your life right I try to give an outline and some principles I believe in but I have confidence in people that if I can show some pertinent ideas you can do your own thing and run with it. Everything I present is not written in stone. Like rest pause, its the best for me and some people I train because I believe it gives the greatest amount of strength gains in the shortest amount of time but someone like Iron addict probably has his own methods that he gains strength with optimally. Doesnt matter as long as the bottom line is the most productive way of blasting up poundages on a progressive basis. Same thing with cycling. I truly believe that Test. should be the base compound but whether your cattle wants to use fina, equip, or winny, or any orals with it is up to you. I beleive in the cheapest yet most effective way of doing things. To me that is test/fina (4 weeks) then cruising for 2 weeks and then test/equip then cruising and etc etc. For your cattle it might be test/reforvit capsules, test/thai dbol or test/Winny tabs etc. The outline remains the same but the personal choices are yours to make

warnerve:Thanks DC for the response. Im doing your program right now, started about a week ago. Im one sore MOFO thats for sure! Your logic seems the best behind any program that I've ever read or done. Thanks for the info. This may be a stupid question but I'm not familiar with rack deadlifts. Im assuming you do them in a powerack? Do you set the pins at different heights to utilize more weight? I want to incorportate them into the routine. Also what do you do for Hams? Other than stiff leg deadlifts and hamstring curls? What would be some other good exercises to utilize heavy weight? Thanks again bro.

doggcrapp: rack deadlifts--in a power rack, safety bars at knee level (your pulling from knee level)--keep your back arched or at least flat the entire movement (not rounded at all)--if your back starts rounding, its time to end the set or your using too much weight. Personally I pull with an overhand and underhand deadlift grip and with my arms perfectly straight, try to pull my shoulders up and back at the top. I then do about a 4-5 second negative down but I wouldnt suggest that to others unless I can show how to do it. (I keep locked---my back arched and knees slightly bent and lower it)..kind of takes a little getting used too.

Hamstrings--leg curls rest paused, stiff legged deadlifts and I do the following movement on a leg press religiously(man this one is easier to show and hard to explain here) legs wide, feet are at the very top pushing only with your heels, toes are off the plate. rest paused for 20 reps. Your pretty much doing a leg press with only your heels and your toes off the top of the plate--it blasts hamstrings and you will feel it as soon as you get up the next morning. You need the right leg press to do this though-some plates are angled weird. I go as deep as I safely can on these--dont let your ass round up-you can do this by taking in alot of air, keeping your chest high (and your head stays on the back rest)when your lowering it and your ass will stay down.

anonymous:Not trying to get off the training part of the thread or anything but what brand of enanthate do you use.

Doggcrapp: when I am in Mexico where it is legal to use--I try to use the Loeffler

anonymous:Also I see that you use eq in your mix. I thought eq didn't start to really take effect until week 5 or 6

Doggcrapp:With all steroids 'working' within 72 hours (and likely much much sooner) of administration (depending on ester, base, and if you injected in muscle, scar tissue, fat etc etc etc etc)--I'm not one to think that a steroid doesnt work at all until 5-6 weeks later. If you have a buildup of a certain hormone where week 5-6 is the peak, yea I'll go along with that theory.

anonymous: I have been following your advice throughout the thread and am now sitting down and writing out my training and vitamin regimen for the upcoming year.

Thanks a bunch for a no crap approach to getting big!!!

Doggcrapp: no problem--one thing I wanted to state about my methods of approaching things is--the lifting is hard, the stretching is hard, but the eating 6 times a day, 500 grams of protein a day constantly will be the hardest thing you do. It will also be the most important, so you have to make do with things like always having a protein drink around and available if you might miss a meal. Alot of times I pack some roast beef and 2 potatoes (and some milk to drink) in a cooler if I have a day where I think I might get caught in traffic somewhere (eat it while i drive)or be in a rush.

anomynous:Not trying to take anything away from you Dogg, but if you ARE 278lbs, then you have to be at least 6'5". From the looks of your pics, you don't appear to be that thick. I'd say that you'd need another 30 or 40 pounds to look as thick as some 250lb guys

doggcrapp: to each his own--thats the dilemna for tall guys in this sport, why do you think gunter schlielkamp can get onstage at 295lbs and still doesnt look as thick as a jay cutler who is 5'8 260....I'm 6 foot 1 not 6'5". Part of the reason I didnt want to put pics up in the first get every guy on the internet becoming a critical judge. I know my place in this sport, Im not claiming to be a top pro and never will be one. You have to have the genetics of the top elite to be a pro nowadays. Which is about 1 out of 100,000 people I would guesstimate by the lowly amount of incredible bodybuilders out there. Im just a guy who weighed 138 at 19 and now is close to 300. It sucks but I started far below everyone else out there. Ive gone far past the majority. I will never be Coleman, Cutler, or on the Olympia stage (nor will 99.9999% of the people dreaming to be a pro on the net). But I can change other people into advanced bodybuilders pretty easily. I'm always amazed at people who can look at certain 2 inch by 3 inch pics and can project that person to being right in front of them. Ive seen people think Shawn Ray is massive and then see him in person and he is 5 foot 6 tall. Ive seen people that think guys like Quincy Taylor and such look lanky by looking at a 2x3 inch picture in a magazine--but stand next to him in person and the guy is a monster. I look at Greg Kovacs in pictures and compared to the rest of him his arms dont look large, but I have nothing to compare him too in pictures....ever see kovacs in person? Fucking gargantuan. Do I want your respect? not really, I'm not standing in front of you all you can see is a 2x3inch pic with the only object you can compare me to is my girlfreind...Did I expect answering Captro's request that I would get some crap --yea I did

It's kind of the reason i have never competed...I want to get onstage at 260 or so. I feel I need to get larger to really do damage as a superheavyweight. To do this I will need to weigh 315-320 offseason. I have purposedly kept myself at lower amounts of Test. (1000mg max so far) as I didnt want to become alot of these guys who have to use 5000mg a week just to weigh 270 offseason. Im kind of proud of the fact that I use the amount of Test. that people 70lbs less than me use, I think the other things I do (high protein, super heavy weights, stretching etc) make up the difference. The superheavies I know use 2 to 3.5grams a week of Test with a large amount of 1 or 2 other things and GH. If I want to compete with the supers-I will have to use close to what other supers do. (I still havent decided if I want to even get close to abusing myself like that--reasons being I get more of an accomplishment by making other people into advanced bodybuilders fast.)

Back to the subject of this thread--A person could use a Synovex kit for his cattle to get his base of Test. (this would be cheap and also about as legal as he could be)---he could also get a Fold kit for his cattle to use with the Test for his cattle's first 4 week push (also cheap as hell and about as legal as one could be)---he could buy clomid from SBC for pennies (and still be grey market legal)--and he could buy research arimidex (for the cheapest/legal price anywhere) during his two week cruising----the only thing that sucks is it is too bad there isnt another "high anabolic-lower to medium androgen" cattle pellet, or "grey area" prohormone that could be converted. This way a person's cattle could cycle fina and then the high anabolic compound with the Test. off and on the cheapest and most legal way possible--without fear of ordering through mail, depending on others not setting them up etc etc...All pellets and prohormones are pretty much androgen based and the ones that are not aren't very effective (not sold on 1,4-androstadienedione) or personally dont want to use (NOR's). Its really too bad we don't have a compound such as a boldenone in pellet form to convert (to stay in the readily available, legal, and cheap status)

Iron addict: I've done rest-puase in the past and one problem I've always had is REALLY being able to tell how progressive I was with poundages because it's real easy to rest a little longer than you did the week before and THINK you got more reps in when instead you were just resting a little longer. I did a few rest-puase sets the last couple workouts and after the first week I realized I better get the stop watch out and time my rests periods between reps. How do you handle this? Especially doing LONG negatives. If you do a ten second negative on an excercise and then come back to it 9 days later and do an 8 second negative you may get more reps while not actually having gotten any stronger, but you will perceive it as progress. Your thoughts please.

Doggcrapp: wow good question that I thought about alot when I was putting down some of my training thoughts on here and kept skipping. This is what I do and you and others might do something different but--After some time at rest pausing I noticed I started counting 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 at roughly the same pace during every eccentric phase of exercises I did. I went home and did it at a stop watch and kept the same counting cadence and it always comes out somewhere about 8 seconds (every time). So something like a bent over row or rack deadlift Ill count to 8 (5 seconds)and if its a bench or bicep curl etc, etc Ill count to 10. With me, counting to 8 always comes out to 5 seconds or so and counting to 10 comes out to 7.8 (lets just say eight) seconds or so. So 99% of my exercises Im doing a 8 second negative phase on. As far as rest between the rest pauses I find breathing in and out deeply 12 times comes out to about 23 seconds for me every time so i just stick to that. I used to count "one onethousand, two thousand etc etc" but Ive been rest pausing for a long time now and its all second nature to me.

Soy grits= 22 grams of protein /140 cals and 12 carbs per half cup --throw it in your oatmeal. I search for the lowest cost route to get in the most amount of viable protein...One bag of 28 ounce soy grits costs $1.75 to $2.25 and I get free shipping--you cant beat that for 7 to 8 servings of it. Try this place---

The other question--Flaxseed oil is great for omega-3 except there is a problem. You get the most amount of lignans in ground flaxseed. You lose all or alot of it when processed into the oil. Even when you use the high lignan oils. The below study suggests ground flaxseed is on level with nolvadex/tamoxifen.

Thompson LU, Li T, Chen J, Goss PE Nutritional Sciences, University of Toronto, Toronto, ON, Canada; Medical Oncology, Princess Margaret Hospital, Toronto, ON, Canada

Epidemiological studies and biological properties of mammalian lignans derived from plant precursors (phytoestrogens) suggest that they may have anticancer potential. Flaxseed, the richest source of mammalian lignan precursors, has previously been shown to reduce the mammary tumor number and growth of established tumors in rats.

The aim of this study was to examine, in a randomized double blind, placebo controlled, prospective clinical trial, the effects of dietary flaxseed on tumor biology, urinary lignan excretion and side effects in patients with newly diagnosed breast tumors.

Patients were randomized to either a 25g flaxseed containing muffin (6 pre-, 17 post-menopausal) or a control (placebo) muffin (4 pre-, 12 post-menopausal). At initial diagnostic core biopsy and at definitive surgery, (a) tissues were analyzed for rate of tumor cell proliferation(Ki67 labeling index and score), c-erB-2 expression, and estrogen (ER) and progesterone (PR) receptor levels, (b) 24-hr urine samples were collected and analyzed for lignans, and (c) 3-day diet records were analyzed for nutrient intake.

Side effects were monitored. Mean treatment times were 39 and 38 days in the placebo and flaxseed groups, respectively.

In postmenopausal women, significant reductions (21-33%) in Ki67 labeling index (p<.036) and scores (p<.029) and in the c-erB-2 expression (p<.040) were observed in the flaxseed group but not in the placebo group. These changes are comparable to those seen with tamoxifen using similar study protocol. No significant differences in the ER and PR levels and in caloric and macronutrient intakes were seen between groups and between pre- and post- treatment periods.

Significantly higher post-treatment urinary lignan excretion was observed in the flaxseed group compared with placebo and with pre-treatment levels. No significant adverse effects of flaxseed were reported. This study showed, for the first time, the potential of dietary modification with flaxseed and its components such as the lignans, in reducing tumor growth in patients with breast cancer comparable to the effects seen with preoperative tamoxifen.

They used ground flaxseeds in this study (flax meal). You can buy flax meal but it goes bad quickly so the best way in my opinion is grind them in a coffee grinder and throw them in your oatmeal. Before grinding the seed's shell protects it and it will keep that way for a long time--once ground I think you only have roughly 48 hours (could be wrong on that--its something like that) before they go rancid--its cheaper and easier to just buy the seeds and grind them then to buy flaxseed meal

Will Brink:" The implication of the above study is obvious for women, but men reading this should see the clear potential benefits: flax seeds and high lignan flax oil may be a natural anti estrogen as powerful as Nolvadex and would explain why I have seen reductions in gyno in men taking high amounts of flax oil"

Flaxseeds are about 90cents a lb--one
tablespoon is 50 calories and 2.5grams of protein--you can get them at any health food store in the bulk bin

Mrfatass:I have been around a LONG time, even though my name on this board does not show it..tee hee.
I can honestly say, this thread is the BEST thread I have read in 5 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Doggcrapp: thanks much appreciated

Dogg--my question. Have you followed this type of work out and cycle theory while dieting?

Doggcrapp: Yes but I am a firm believer in using cardio to take off bodyfat than screwing with the diet that built you all that muscle. I see the main problem of unsuccessfull precontest bodybuilders is they drastically change their diet that made them a huge bodybuilder in the first place. Its almost like a panic comes over them. These are the guys you see walking around huge offseason and show up at contests like scarecrows and losing 30lbs of muscle along the way. I like people to stay with the diet, but unlike in offseason to be real strict with it at night(i.e. low to trace carbs after 6-7pm as stated previously). Combined with the low to trace carbs after 6-7pm I have them do 45 minutes of cardio upon awakening (with fat burning compounds)and that works for almost every single person like a charm. In the rare case (hasnt happened yet)that it doesnt work for someone--I will make the low carb phase one hour earlier (5pm)--I havent had a problem yet getting anyone shredded so until I do theres not much more I can say....In my opinion the most important thing to do is not to panic and radically change your diet! Your continued training and eating like it is in the offseason is what is going to keep every iota of muscle that you have built on you...let cardio do its work and take the bodyfat off of you.

i.e. I wonder what something ike animal's animalbolics and this type of training and drug protocal would produce?????

Doggcrapp: I really dont know the answer to that question. I havent tried it.

I feel the worst diet is the diet that someone cant stand to be on and their pissed because they cant eat something. If I am training them (dieting wise) the 45 minute cardio is mandatory(no exceptions) -the low to trace carbs after 6-7pm is mandatory (no exceptions) but if they want chocolate chip cookies or ice cream or something to that effect I tell them to blast it, eat as many cookies as you can possiblly eat so you dont crave it for at least two weeks. They can do that if they follow my two rules--1)they have to gulp down a protein drink before eating anything like that. 2) it has to be before 6pm. I do this for two reasons--mentally for their spirits and two probaly for my peace of mind--I have it stuck in my head that the body strives for homeostasis at all times and losing bodyfat is a war - I like to think I am tricking the body into thinking its not on a diet---and boom before it knows what hit it-6pm comes around/glycogen stores gradually utilized for rest of the night and during sleep and POW 45 minutes of cardio first thing in morning (rest of diminished glycogen stores and then bodyfat)

NPC here,
DC I have been on your program for around six weeks. It is for sure an excellent program. As we all know everyone is different and I modified your program to fit my needs. I feel like my body is responding very well. I have been clean for this entire program and I am still making gains. Gains are very hard to come by when you achieve the level I am at---especially when not on anything. I was curious if I could add a second exersize to each muscle when I am on and my recovery time is increased.

Doggcrapp: Geez NPC I wish you did my methods juiced to the hilt so I could have some bragging rights to all the muscle you put on (kidding)...I know what you mean about training clean after you have been reached an advanced status pounding away for a number of years--you start doubting whether you can gain any muscle clean anymore. I see that you modified it legswise and with the rest of your body playing catchup with your legs, I see no problem with that. As far as adding extra exercises that comes down to your own deductions about your training..."if you add exercises will you recover enough to be able to train balls to the wall again 3 days later?" I have found the majority of people cant, especially extremely heavy lifters which I feel you are- but I might be wrong and your recovery might be extraordinary. Remember this though, its never been proven to me that recovery after a certain "breaking in" point keeps getting better....cardiovascular wise yes....muscle recovery wise, I am not convinced. Lets say you have a twin brother who just started lifting 2 weeks ago, 175lbs might seem heavy for him in the bench press while 475lbs might be heavy for you. The facts are you're recoveries are going to be similiar (yours might be slightly better)--heres the difference...your lifting 475lbs for reps while he is lifting 175lbs. With similiar recovery rates between you two whose body (and joints)are taking much more of a pounding and who probaly needs as much recovery as possible?

Paranoid Q: Why not do drop sets instead of RP? The 12-15 breaths makes it feel like 3 sets with short rest periods. From what (little) I know - Drop sets would cause more fiber recruitment because fatigued fibers have stopped firing. RP allows the same fibers to recoup, negating deeper fiber recruitment. I personally find Drop Sets to be more intense. When I fail on a heavy weight, I dont get out-of-breath etc. It just feels like I cant generate any further innervation of the muscle. Perhaps this is neurological failure and not muscle? BTW I have been lifting for 14 yrs.

Doggcrapp: because my overall plan is progression of strength. I beleive incredible strength "gains" with the right (protein) diet intake/anabolic environment/stretching mix results in incredible size gains. Lets use benching for example. John Doe benches 225 to complete failure for 6 reps straight. What method will get John Doe to 225 for 15 reps straight? Dropping the weight to 200 and doing more reps and then dropping the weight to 180 and doing more reps "?" or having John Doe drive himself to rest pause 225 for 11 to 12 reps whereas he could normally only do six. My whole opinions are based around making people the absolute strongest bodybuilder that they can genetically be. I cant do that if I am dropping back in weight instead of constantly pounding forward. People have been building huge quads with squats for years--You take 15 second rests during grueling sets of squats all the time just to get some air into your lungs and just to get your bearings back to pound out a couple more reps. With John Doe pretty much doing double his normal maximum output in benches (12 reps compared to 6 reps-albeit with the rest pauses) his pectorals have to get thicker to compensate for such an increased output over the norm. Dropsets are intense no doubt and maybe down the road we shall see abstracts that show them causing hyperplasia (due to the stress time under load) but I am trying to make massive protein ingesting, heavy slag iron lifting, fascia stretching, 300lb monsters and I think rest pause is the quickest way there. what exactly do you do for legs? Quads in particular? 1 50 rep set?

Doggcrapp: a typical quad workout for me is super heavy weights on either a squat, a leg press or a hack squat for 15 to 30 reps (the last 7 reps for me is truly succeed or death)

Also DogCrap- is negatives with lighter weights such as used as effective as heavy negatives? (ie- from what I read heavy negatives are needed to induce muscle hypertrophy. Heavy as in >100% concentric max weights)

doggcrapp: every study I have ever read stated eccentric reps is where the most hypertrophic activity happens and the concentric is a priming phase. You can look at olympic lifters and some of the guys in lumberjack competitions as people who do primarily positive movements. Powerlifters have to do a strict eccentric phases in their lifts and their physiques show it. Ever notice every elite gymnast out there has advanced muscularity? Think of some of the eccentric movements they have to do repeatedly.

BLADE:- are you by any chance the trainer J.Mueller talked about in the early issues of Anabolic Extreme? His hardcore workouts - series seems to be influenced by your ideas, namely one set of rest-pause on every exercise.

DOGGCRAPP: That would be me. I like my anonymity of this board though. Jason is truly one of the strongest bulls out there no doubt.

BLADE:I must question the validity of going to failure on every set, though - you tax the CNS excessively, and the CNS is usually the culprit when you see signs of overtraining. As long as you do more reps or weight from workout to workout, the stimulus for hypertrophy should be sufficient.

Doggcrapp: if this is true I would have a slew of people that I train that would quickly be forever overtrained, lethargic, no appetite, chronic joint problems etc.....I dont. I just have people that are continually 50-80lbs larger than they were 2 years prior. CNS, CNS, CNS, I keep hearing people so worried about the CNS. You tell me what would tax the CNS more? A leg workout consisting of squats, leg presses, and hacks done for 13 to 20 sets in a workout or one set of hacks for 20 reps hard? The total working sets for any single workout I have is 6! I seriously doubt 6 sets is going to stress out the CNS when a short while ago (the 80's) everyone and their brother was doing 14-22 set (per bodypart!) workouts for 3.5 hours. I do agree rest pausing is not for everyone and some people reading this might overtrain doing it. If that is the case they might have to do straight sets with maybe a couple statics at the end. It amazes me everyone is so damn afraid of overtraining they are scared to even train hard anymore. In 9 days time I do a total of 3 sets for chest. Theres people in this newsgroup who do 15 sets for chest in every workout. I make bets of 100 dollars with alot of the people I train--I tell them I will have them up 40lbs in one years time at the same bodyfat. But they have to listen and do everything I tell them to do 100%. I havent lost a bet yet. I have also never had a person I personally trained go to another method of training--ever. I am just throwing my ideas out there on this thread and anyone reading this can either use it or chuck it. I like making people big. Its fun for me and I think its the hardest thing to do in bodybuilding. It takes 16 weeks to get shredded. It takes at least 4-6 years to really get to a point where people kind of get freaked out by someones size. What should be the focus?!?! I feel sad for people who have the desire to stand out in a crowd and be an elite bodybuilder yet they have been training for 5 years and noone even knows they lift. Thats embarrassing. Those are the people I can help and want to help. I cant help people who are set in their ways.

blade:Do you ever implement periods (e.g. a week) of complete rest to "lower" the muscle's stimulus threshold?

doggcrapp: stated before-four weeks all out 2 weeks cruising--on the 2 weeks cruising I use this time to do straight sets usually and/or try out different exercises Ive been thinking about yet still train as hard as I can with straight sets (all the while trying to get the hpta kicked back up)

Blade:And the cycles you recommend are as simple as possible (e.g. 1.5g/week of Test+700mg/week of Tren)?

Doggcrapp: people are out looking for the magic stack in East Bulgaria while the most important compounds for gains are right smack in front of them. I'm sorry but if 2 grams a week of test and 225mg of fina EOD (at the highest ranges) arent going to put gobs of muscle on you, its time to take up golf.

paranoid:*its hard to keep finding people to spot me
*negatives- not an exact science in time
anyway - is there any modifications that would still work?

Doggcrapp: I train by myself alot of the time because of my work hours. The smythe machine and the power rack with the safety bars are my best buddies. I will never do an exercise where I cannot save myself somehow.
Modifications like more sets? Everyone lifts at different intensities I have no way of monitoring how hard someone lifts unless I am there. I leave that up to you paranoid, if you want to do straight sets with statics at the end thats fine as long as your goal is to be the strongest MF that you can possibly become. You cannot keep adding sets because there is no way you will recover continually (muscle, joints etc) In fact the more advanced you get (with the more weight your using and more stress on connective tissues etc) the more abbreviated you have to try to make the workout (to recover in time for your next one)

skullfucked:Here's the exercises that I can reccomend that aren't too hard to do rest/pause on.
- reverse grip benches on the smith machine (this is THE ultimate tricep mass builder)

Mondo said:
A ? about the 4 wks on and 2 wk cruise cycle method. I dont realy start to get a big push from fina till the +/-5th week, then the strength/size/pumps come on like a freight train. I have only been doing it eod at varying amts up to 100mg. I feel that if I only went out 4 wks I would be cutting my best gains out. In your opinion would ed bring the gains up in a shorter period of time, I know levels are more constant on ed but I dont think its realy going to change my xperience of week 5 + being the best part. Any ideas, is going 5 + 2 or 6 + 2 an alternative or is this just to long for this type of cycle.

Doggcrapp: Definitely nothing on this post is written in stone--im just throwing my thoughts out there. For example whereas before I felt I was skimming the overtraining threshhold with my training--lately I have been using such unbelievable heavy weights and pushing so hard in my workouts with rest pauses/ statics and burns that I now feel I am going into overtraining. Im not feeling fatigued because my workouts are so short, and my weights are still always going upward but muscle soreness is lingering longer than usual. So I will throw an extra rest day in the mix, either going 2 on 2 off, or splitting my body into 3 parts and training 2 on one off. Same thing with my suggested 4 on 2 cruise method mondo. It was just derived from my opinion that keeping the hpta as optimal as possible shores up all the (sickness, depression, lethargy, injury, recovery, gains) problems people have. I would say go with what you think works best for you--if thats 6 on 2 off, your intuition will know best. The main objective is that your doing the 2 week cruising some time in there to get "normalized" (as much as possible)while 'Johnny Juicer' over there will do his 12-16 week straight cycle, use 2 weeks of clomid when he gets off--sore joints--a nasty cold--weights dropping--and ends up keeping 6lbs of the 22 he just thought he gained. What really is the sad part of it all is that Testosterone and Fina are relatively cheap yet the compounds you need to use to keep regulated are much more expensive ---but the cost to benefit ratio is worth it.

Southwestdreams:Hey DC after reading this tread several times, I absolutely believe this is the most informative thread I have ever read!!!

doggcrapp: appreciated--

skullfucked did you help anyone precontest in the San Diego championships at Pacific beach middle school 2 weeks ago? Seeing Jay Cutler guest pose reiterated to myself the following points. Heres a guy hard as a rock at 287lbs at 5'8 with striations. The arena was packed with bodybuilders and alot of large ones at that. There is no way in my mind I will believe that Jay Cutler although dwarfing any other bodybuilder in that arena, uses more than anyone else in that arena because of that fact. I would estimate that 25-50 or so bodybuilders in that arena were using as much if not much more so than cutler yet still arent even remotely close to his level. Case in point (im using Jay because he grew up 20 minutes from me in Massachusetts) Paul Demayo and Mike Mattarrazzo also grew up down the road from me--these two ran around with groups of buddies all the time (especially Demayo)--alot of these guys were using the exact same drugs, doing the same exact things. Not one of their freinds gained close to the same muscle or even got close to winning anything major. (some even looked like they didnt even lift--just bloated and about 210lbs). It just reiterated to me how much genetics plays a major all consuming part in all of this. You cant take 5 grams of test and 8 anadrol a day and make woody allen into dorian yates. I really believe some of these pro's nowadays that are so above and beyond the normal level (dillett, coleman, now cutler) might even have a mutation of the myostatin gene already. I did read a study (muscular development?) where Flex Wheelers myostatin levels were skewered--much different from a normal person (ill have to look it up)....I feel sorry for any person who wants to be a pro bodybuilder nowadays. It is at a level now that if people arent asking you if your a bodybuilder before you even start lifting your not going to have the genetics to make it.

I learned long ago that if you have troublesome triceps, extension movements (outside of nosebreakers) seem to be a huge waste of valuable time. Ive pounded away at rest paused --close grip benches on the smythe, reverse grip benches on the smythe and heavy higher rep nosebreakers consistently and turned my triceps into one of my best bodyparts. I previously tried every concievable extension exercise with heavy weights, lighter weights or higher reps but heavy etc etc.. and (for me at least) they were absolutely useless (especially pushdowns--they sure feel and look like they are working but the tape measure never changes)
Im trying to really crank it up this year and hit the superheavies just inside out shredded a
when dieting down I always wish I gained more weight in the offseason. It isn't losing fat that is tough it is gaining muscle.
...When you sleep is when your muscles repair so why the hell would you go to bed w/out protein??
cycles on guys should give this a definate's a thread over at animals's 30 pages and still growing. I read the whole 30 pages and was glued to it. I'm giving the workout a try- so far it's hard as fuck- you think one set isn't enough- HA....give it a try.

Karma for posting this thread Lab Rat. :p

you should read the whole thread at animalkit's website fucking great shit!!!

Doggcrapp is very knowledgeable...he's the author.
Yes ive read the whole thread also, very informative. I suggest everyone read it theres a lot to be learned here from some very experienced people I respect.
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