I can't drop the fat

[cobracock1979]

Thanks Des+Ironwing,

Yeah I can see what you mean. I tend to rotate my carb sources between yams/ brown rice/ oats. generally I add fibrous veg.

I am on a 600 cal defecit anyway, I dont want to cut cals any further than that for the time being so some of the alterations suggested would not be necessary at this point.

I shoot for about 60g fat a day, abot 30g from NPB. maybe Ill sub some of this for fish oils.

Im on cycle but still hate the thought of not consuming protein before bed so that will stay. However I do add olive oil to my casien before bed - do fats before sleep have a negative effect on fat burnig?

Finally, what macros do you recommend for fatburning, Im currently on a low carb diet with a (refeed & cal surplus) every 4 days to fire my metabolism.

 

[ironwings]

x2. + he's on the initial phases of a diet

LOL, you guys are fiesty. I'll leave you be. I'd like to know his secret to be at 13% without any dieting. Which is considered lean for a male by the way. Not average.

 

[cobracock1979]

Iron wings!

what are your thoughts on fats (EFA's) before bed whils cutting?? I use em (olive oil generally, sometime NPB) to slow the digestion process of my casien.

Your AV looks awesome so ur opinion is valued round her. Whats ur BF??

 

[ironwings]

I think it is a great idea, as long as you are in your caloric limits and macro ratios. I personally don't eat anything before bed, but that is because I need the energy (calories) during the day for what I do and just don't have the calories left to spare. If you are looking to cut additional calories, these are the ones I cut first.

My Avi was taken about a month ago in the midst of my loading cycle. I was packing on the muscle and was at 19% bodyfat, 135lbs. I'm cutting now for some photo's/videos in May. 1 1/2 weeks in and down 5lbs. I'll measure my bodyfat in two more weeks and I'll be cutting for 12 weeks total. I should be around 115lbs, 15% bodyfat when I'm done. For me it is as simple as calories in/calories out. I create a deficit using both and it works. I don't get caught up in diets. There is still so much to be learned about nutrition and how our bodies respond to it. Best case is to go with evidence-based models and not "authority". Everyone claims to be authoritive and correct in their theories. Kind of like religion. Any diet you follow will work if you stick to it, it really is just a structure for reducing your calories. Pick one that works well with your body and stick with it.

 

[Bridger]

This wasn't a hot point of discussion but very important. Regular sleep.

The OP said he had upped his sleep from 4-6 hours to 8-9. That is good. Stay consistent with your sleep patterns it will help in many ways. The body just doesn't work the way it should when you are lacking sleep, metabolism is one thing that gets messed up.

 

[desmond]

Ironwings: I don't think we disagree much then on pre-bed protein. Both of us believe cals in v cals out is the main determinant, except u would prioritize eating throughout the day, whereas I would redirect 150-200 cals cutting to a prebed shake

Cobra: casein has a 7 hour digestion period anyway? Are there many - ANY - studies showing fat added on to a shake really does that much for digestion?

Not enough for me to warrant doing it.

Is adding a fat to a source (eg adding oil to tuna) going to do the same to a food that already has fat in it (whole eggs)? I'm skeptical to say the least, but the point is this is not a strongly researched issue. If casein alone takes 7 hours to digest, well that's probably long enough.

taking EVOO pre bed or some other oil will to some extent reduce nocturnal fat burning simply because its energy that needs to be oxidised. But it will be cals out v cals in 24/7 which determines overall weight changes.

 

[dabuffguy]

Ironwings: I don't think we disagree much then on pre-bed protein. Both of us believe cals in v cals out is the main determinant, except u would prioritize eating throughout the day, whereas I would redirect 150-200 cals cutting to a prebed shake

Cobra: casein has a 7 hour digestion period anyway? Are there many - ANY - studies showing fat added on to a shake really does that much for digestion?

Not enough for me to warrant doing it.

Is adding a fat to a source (eg adding oil to tuna) going to do the same to a food that already has fat in it (whole eggs)? I'm skeptical to say the least, but the point is this is not a strongly researched issue. If casein alone takes 7 hours to digest, well that's probably long enough.

taking EVOO pre bed or some other oil will to some extent reduce nocturnal fat burning simply because its energy that needs to be oxidised. But it will be cals out v cals in 24/7 which determines overall weight changes.

Some people highly suggest taking fats with carbs during cutting to slow digestion rates and keep insulin lower. I couldn't explain the fine details of it, but it seems to be a fairly well accepted notion. I'm sure there are some legit studies done that prove this. Just need to look them up.

 

[desmond]

Some people highly suggest taking fats with carbs during cutting to slow digestion rates and keep insulin lower. I couldn't explain the fine details of it, but it seems to be a fairly well accepted notion. I'm sure there are some legit studies done that prove this. Just need to look them up.

Yes I have read this too, but there is a difference.

Carbs are digested almost immediately; casein is 7 hours?

Do fats take longer than 7 hours? Can they slow something as slow releasing as casein.

There are no studies on this point and it is IMO quite different. I mean for one - if u add 10g of fat to ur shake, does the fat itself take longer than 7 hours to digest????

 

[dabuffguy]

Yes I have read this too, but there is a difference.

Carbs are digested almost immediately; casein is 7 hours?

Do fats take longer than 7 hours? Can they slow something as slow releasing as casein.

There are no studies on this point and it is IMO quite different. I mean for one - if u add 10g of fat to ur shake, does the fat itself take longer than 7 hours to digest????

Hmmm, I see.

Also, casein has as much as a 8-12 hour digestion from some places I have read. All the "12 hour" proteins go off of that.


Good question. That's something to investigate.

 

[iron_matt-CB]

If your BMR is 2012 and you are eating 1800 kcals plus doing all that cardio, my guess is that you have thrown yourself into starvation mode.

If you are going to use the BMR, you need to multiply it by your activity levels, I think it is 1.45 for moderate, but with what you are doing, I would say intense, which I think is 1.95.

so really, you need 3923 kcals/day. To lose weight, you take off a max of 15-20%, which would make it around 3138 kcals/day.

I personally think you are eating at least 1000 kcals less than you need.

this advice is spot on...you bmr is what you body needs for just basic functions. you need to add in you activites and that means extra cals.. you seem way underfed, which in return will lead to fat retention "starvation mode"