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How Do You Rate?

Nelson Montana

Chairman of Board
Chairman Member
Sure, it's not about steroids. But it may be interesting to see how enhanced guys do.


HOW DO YOU RATE?

Are Your Muscles as Strong as They Should Be?

Nelson Montana


Yeah, I know. You're a bodybuilder, and that has little to do with how much weight you can lift. Increased strength is a pleasant side effect to bodybuilding but increases in muscle mass and lifting ability aren't necessarily synonymous. We see examples of it all the time. Every gym has that guy who doesn't look at all impressive who can outlift the guys with the competition level physique. Humbling, isn't it?

It's important to train in one manner or another in order to achieve your objective. If large shapely muscles are the goal, you'll need to pump the various muscle groups with blood using strict form, moderate weight and tempo, an 8-12 rep range, a variety of movements, and short rest periods between sets. If getting better at a particular lift is your goal, practice that lift -- as heavy as possible.

Muscle growth may be your main objective but increasing strength has its advantages. It's the most tangible gauge of progress. It allows for more stress and ultimately, more growth. And besides, bodybuilders are expected to be strong! Even if you won't be entering any powerlifting contests in the near future, there's no reason you have to use pitiful poundage in the major lifts. Sometimes you have to show that all that muscle is useful for more than just looking good!

This line of thinking is what leads most bodybuilders to test themselves every now and then to see just how strong they really are. The problem with such a practice is that they attempt a one rep maximum lift.

Maximum lifts are not the best test of strength! Maximum lifts are the best way to injure yourself!

Single rep maxes are a catastrophe waiting to happen. And the last thing a bodybuilder needs is an injury that will put his training on hold and sabotage progress -- not to mention the pain that persists long after the injury occurs. Don't be a fool.

What's also ironic is that a one rep max isn't even a very good indicator of muscular strength. When forced to lift a maximum load, it's the bones and tendons that take on the majority of stress. That's why so many Olympic and Powerlifting champions aren't exactly sculpted specimens of muscularity. They're more big, blocky, thick-boned powerhouses. In the case of squatters, overall height is a tremendous factor. Shorter men have a distinct advantage over taller men since not only is their center of gravity better positioned, they also have to move the weight less distance to achieve lockout.

A truer test of muscular strength would be to lift in the higher rep range. Some people erroneously believe that higher reps are more a matter of endurance and aerobic ability, but that's a misnomer. The completion of 20 repetitions can take under a minute - hardly a barometer of long distance stamina.

Many methods devised to test strength require complex calculations. You know the type. Take three-quarters of your one rep max (which is impossible to determine without potential harm) and divide it by 4, then add 15 pounds and yada, yada, yada. What I propose here is much simpler. It takes into consideration the individual's bodyweight and adjusts the testing accordingly. The entire experiment takes just a few minutes. It's also fun! Are you up for the challenge? If so, take this test now and find out how strong you really are!

Pushups:
It doesn't get any simpler than this. The old pushup is an all but forgotten exercise that is excellent for building definition throughout the pectorals and anterior deltoids. It's also an outstanding indicator of upper body strength. (Which is why it's still used by firefighters as a yardstick of their ability to perform strength related tasks.)

It's irrelevant how much you weigh in order to test yourself. Give yourself as much time as you need (as long as you don't take the weight off of your arms at any point or stop for more than 10 seconds). If you're capable of completing over 100 push-ups, you are indeed a man's-man! Even 50 is still excellent. 30-40 is okay, but if you can't eke out at least 25, it's time to start specializing on your functional strength. Incidentally, although the two moves are similar, a good bench presser isn't always good at pushups. The reason being; pushups require more work from the stabilizer muscles, whereas bench pressing is more of a leverage lift.

Curls Against a Wall:
While holding a barbell, stand with your shoulders, back, butt and rear of your upper arms against a wall, feet shoulder length apart, approximately 14" forward.

Without any alteration of this position, or bending at the knees, curl the barbell to your shoulders maintaining a strict form throughout. If you weigh under 160 pounds, then a curl of 100 pounds for 4 reps is superior to most bodybuilders your weight. 80 is good. 60 is fair. If you weigh between 170 and 190, 4 reps with a 120 pound bar is superior, 100 is good and 80 is fair. If you're 200 pounds or more, you'll need to curl 140 pounds for 4 reps to be considered superior. 130 is good and a fair weight would be 110 pounds.

Chin-ups to Failure:
Once again, here we have a basic and brutal test of strength. Chin-ups are different from the chins you might do to develop your back. When working lats, the movement must be controlled and deliberate. The grip is overhand and the head moves back from the bar as you raise yourself in order to stress the latissimus. When performing chin-ups, the grip is underhand and you can use some "swing" in order to get your chin above the bar. If you can do 20, you're in good shape. More than 30 shows tremendous upper body strength. 15 is acceptable. Less than 10 is pretty bad. If that's the case, it's time to lay off that comfortable lat pulldown (with the light weight) and start chinning!

Body Weight Benching:
In order to keep it safe and keep it simple, try this. Warm up to make sure the muscles aren't cold. Then take a barbell that matches your total bodyweight. If you feel this is too much to complete at least 4 reps, abort the test! Don't feel bad. It's better to be safe than sorry. If you can knock out 5-8 reps, you're doing all right. If you can complete more than 10 reps, you're a damn strong dude. If you can do more than 25 reps, people better not tick you off because you're one intimidating son of a bitch.

Seated Holdout To Front:
This is probably the most exacting test of shoulder strength you'll ever find. Sit on a flat bench with a back rest. Lift a barbell and press it overhead. Then slowly lower it forward, keeping the arms straight until it's positioned at eye level and arm's length. Hold the bar in this static position for a count of five. If you're under 200 pounds and you can hold 75 pounds for 5 seconds, you can rate yourself as possessing superior shoulder strength. 65 pounds is good. 50 is fair. Less than 45 pounds is weak. If you weigh over 200 pounds, you'll need to hold a 90 pound bar to rate superior. 75 is good. 65 is fair. If you can't hold at least 50 pounds, you either need more deltoid work or you're carrying far too much fat and not enough muscle. Work on it.

Rep Squatting:
As mentioned, one's anatomy has as much to do with their squatting ability as does their muscular strength. Yet, if you want a reliable test of your leg and lung power, give this assessment a go.

Take a barbell that weighs half of your bodyweight. Now, perform as many deep squats as possible in a time span of one minute. Many non or beginning trainers wouldn't reach double digits on this one, but 25 reps is about average for an experienced bodybuilder. 30-40 is extraordinary. And if you can bang out more than 50 of those suckers...DAMN!

You may have noticed, no point system was used. That's because this test isn't meant to be a competition. Instead, it's a way of each individual judging his own capabilities. If you decide to test yourself on an ongoing basis, you may want to do it on an off-day when you're fresh. The test alone will be quite a workout! As a matter of fact, this type of training makes for a nice change of pace to your regular routine or as an addition to it when you want to step up your training volume.

So how strong are you? It doesn't matter if you don't excel at every movement, for most people have their weaknesses in one lift or another. But even if strength isn't your main priority, it's always good to know where you stand. It's also a good idea to check how far along you've come. See for yourself.





.
 
I'm weak as far as Im concerned.....I could give 2 shits how strong anyone else thinks I am.

My opinion is what matters the most....LOL :artist:


I agree 100% on the Maxing part.....AMEN !!!
 
Sorry.

I think that post sucked.

You are mainly talking about muscular endurance.

Pushups an indicator of strength? Are you kidding me homeslice. I used to bang 30 reps fast in perfect form in bootcamp about 10x a day in addition to what we were given as punishment. I scored 93 pushups once on the 2 minute test and these were good strict pushups.

I'd be willing to bet I could not have benched my bodyweight back then. Definitely not strong.

Curls. Ok. Not bad...

Chinups? You are not accounting for bodyweight or muscle fiber differences. At my lightest athletic shape (165lbs) I could never get more than 13 reps. But I could do 3 perfect reps with a 65lbs DB. I guess by your definition that's pretty weak.

Bodyweight benching. Meh. I know guys that might pull 8 reps bodyweight and then 1 rep max 120lbs more than that, that aren't Pl'ers. Come on...

Seated holdout. ya.

Max reps on half BW squat in 1 minute. Lol.



Here, I'll give you my little test of are your muscles strong or not for an average gym lifter:

Squat 1.25x bodyweight. 1 rep ok, 3 rep good, 5 rep strong, 8 rep real strong. 10+ hoss. These are full squats with no belt.

Dumbell clean and jerk. .75x bodweight ok, .85x good, 1x strong, 1.15x hoss

barbell deadlift 1.5x bodyweight 1 rep ok, 3 reps good, 5 reps strong, 8 reps very strong, 10+ hoss

Pretty simple and a much better indicator of strength than what you listed.

Honestly, lets say you can do 30 more pushups than me, do 20 more reps of the squat than me, but anywhere in the 1-10 rep range I use alot more weight than you, who is stronger?

:theshadow
 
It's not dying.

All things change in time.

Maybe not for the better, but based off looking at the average number of viewers on a few other forums EF still gets more.

But, I'm sure that isn't what you meant.
 
al420 said:
I guess I mean't it needs to be killed....

Gee, all because I posted a little article I wrote that might get some guys testing some strength moves?

Don't worry. I'm sure someone will soon ask "How's this cycle?" and it'll save the integrity of the board.
 
those standards make me feel like a GOD, therefore i dig the post, lol. For some, those standards might be a little light in the pants, but I digg the fact that you're tryin to drop some knowledge Nelson.
 
sofakingdel said:
those standards make me feel like a GOD, therefore i dig the post, lol. For some, those standards might be a little light in the pants, but I digg the fact that you're tryin to drop some knowledge Nelson.


Yeah, I thought some of the guys here might excell.

Suprisingly, I find a lot of guys can't do the hold out move. Sounds easier than it is.

In general, I'm much better at pulling movements so my chins and curls are at the top, but my bench blows.

You can do 50 reps of squats in one minute with half your BW?
 
nice post nelson. i belive u are pretty spot on with most things. some things are weight depended like the pull ups and push ups but dont feel the need to nit pic post when people are just tring to give another dynamic to the board.
 
i weigh 175-180 i can press 225 15 reps

sometimes i do 1000 push ups in a day, did this for years when I was young

CAN DO 100 easy

squat part 50 reps was when I started to burn out

Chin ups 20

nelson do you know about german volume training?

Glad your on the board!
 
nelson that was a good post, we need this type of thread

since i have been here i have loved your post-
 
Nelson Montana said:
Yeah, I thought some of the guys here might excell.


Suprisingly, I find a lot of guys can't do the hold out move. Sounds easier than it is.

In general, I'm much better at pulling movements so my chins and curls are at the top, but my bench blows.

You can do 50 reps of squats in one minute with half your BW?

Some of the stuff I went and tested myself just now the rest I know
Tested now:
87 pushups
90 lb curls 15 reps
18 chins
70 holdout (my shoulders are my weak point but my wrist hurt before my shoulders gave out, hardly rested after all those damn pushups) I'm gonna try again tomorrow when i'm fresh

known values:
bench 225 18x's
squat 225 15x's all the time with energy to spare, thats what I do on my high rep squat days (15, 10-12, 6-8, 4 usually forced) reps

I'm 28 y/o, 215 lbs, 12% bf (gotta get back to 10%) I think i do pretty decently in the strength department, but i'm thinking about going back to the 5x5 during pct and off cycle to just work on strength
 
interesting post,

at 260, i cant do pullups for shit.. but i can rep 260 like butter on flat bench

interesting post though, the squat thing seems more like endurance than actual strength

i dont see a problem with the post though, not sure why everyones so negative,

by the way, they said my order shipped thursday.. priority mail.. 4 days so far :(
 
hey nelson or others what do you think or have you herd about german volume training?

Im into shocj training and adding boxing, jumprope, pushups, and crazy new ideas so this thread is on target for me-
 
Simply put, German VT is simply what it says -- the concept being that the body must have a reason to adapt and get bigger and get stronger and the way to do that is to train a lot.


Everyone needs to push their limits now and then, though excessively high volume all the time will burn you out. But when it comes to finding who the best athletes are, strength coaches aren't interested in who burns out, only who doesn't.
 
I don't think this particular post is what is making this board die. I do think this post should be in the training section though. There are still some good dudes here but alot of good dudes have left; and I'm not even talking about macro or ulter.
 
boston789 said:
I don't think this particular post is what is making this board die. I do think this post should be in the training section though. There are still some good dudes here but alot of good dudes have left; and I'm not even talking about macro or ulter.

It is, but the training section has their share of snobs. This forum has more energy IMO.

Sure, some guys have left, and a lot of new people have come on board. That's life.

Personally, I don't want to be like some old fart who just wants to hang around with the "old crowd" who all think alike. But if there's someplace where the info is more interesting, and every other thread isn't derailed by someone bitching because they disagree with a particular post, I'd like to check it out myself.
 
Bros,

I think this is a good post. I may not agree with it 100% not even 50%, but posts like this is what makes the board better. Exchanging ideas and opinions. It should not be a i'm right, you're wrong type of thread.

We can all benefit and learn more even if we dont agree with someones posts. Heck give the guy some credit, takes time to write that up.
 
I think Nelson is getting at functional strength as opposed to just the movements we think about as being the measure of our power. Bench press by all accounts is a terrible indicator of "strength" or even "power." How often are you pushing 300 pounds of your chest lying down? And yes, endurance is certainly a measure of strength and power. What are you gonna do if you get into a fight, compare bench presses and that's who wins? The person that can apply that strength combined with endurance and POWER is going to be the winner.
 
DonCorleone562 said:
Bros,

I think this is a good post. I may not agree with it 100% not even 50%, but posts like this is what makes the board better. Exchanging ideas and opinions. It should not be a i'm right, you're wrong type of thread.

We can all benefit and learn more even if we dont agree with someones posts. Heck give the guy some credit, takes time to write that up.


I agree. I was just talking about the board in general.
 
DonCorleone562 said:
Bros,

I think this is a good post. I may not agree with it 100% not even 50%, but posts like this is what makes the board better. Exchanging ideas and opinions. It should not be a i'm right, you're wrong type of thread.

We can all benefit and learn more even if we dont agree with someones posts. Heck give the guy some credit, takes time to write that up.
Now that I'll agree w/.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Sure, it's not about steroids. But it may be interesting to see how enhanced guys do.


HOW DO YOU RATE?

Are Your Muscles as Strong as They Should Be?

Nelson Montana


Yeah, I know. You're a bodybuilder, and that has little to do with how much weight you can lift. Increased strength is a pleasant side effect to bodybuilding but increases in muscle mass and lifting ability aren't necessarily synonymous. We see examples of it all the time. Every gym has that guy who doesn't look at all impressive who can outlift the guys with the competition level physique. Humbling, isn't it?

It's important to train in one manner or another in order to achieve your objective. If large shapely muscles are the goal, you'll need to pump the various muscle groups with blood using strict form, moderate weight and tempo, an 8-12 rep range, a variety of movements, and short rest periods between sets. If getting better at a particular lift is your goal, practice that lift -- as heavy as possible.

Muscle growth may be your main objective but increasing strength has its advantages. It's the most tangible gauge of progress. It allows for more stress and ultimately, more growth. And besides, bodybuilders are expected to be strong! Even if you won't be entering any powerlifting contests in the near future, there's no reason you have to use pitiful poundage in the major lifts. Sometimes you have to show that all that muscle is useful for more than just looking good!

This line of thinking is what leads most bodybuilders to test themselves every now and then to see just how strong they really are. The problem with such a practice is that they attempt a one rep maximum lift.

Maximum lifts are not the best test of strength! Maximum lifts are the best way to injure yourself!

Single rep maxes are a catastrophe waiting to happen. And the last thing a bodybuilder needs is an injury that will put his training on hold and sabotage progress -- not to mention the pain that persists long after the injury occurs. Don't be a fool.

What's also ironic is that a one rep max isn't even a very good indicator of muscular strength. When forced to lift a maximum load, it's the bones and tendons that take on the majority of stress. That's why so many Olympic and Powerlifting champions aren't exactly sculpted specimens of muscularity. They're more big, blocky, thick-boned powerhouses. In the case of squatters, overall height is a tremendous factor. Shorter men have a distinct advantage over taller men since not only is their center of gravity better positioned, they also have to move the weight less distance to achieve lockout.

A truer test of muscular strength would be to lift in the higher rep range. Some people erroneously believe that higher reps are more a matter of endurance and aerobic ability, but that's a misnomer. The completion of 20 repetitions can take under a minute - hardly a barometer of long distance stamina.

Many methods devised to test strength require complex calculations. You know the type. Take three-quarters of your one rep max (which is impossible to determine without potential harm) and divide it by 4, then add 15 pounds and yada, yada, yada. What I propose here is much simpler. It takes into consideration the individual's bodyweight and adjusts the testing accordingly. The entire experiment takes just a few minutes. It's also fun! Are you up for the challenge? If so, take this test now and find out how strong you really are!

Pushups:
It doesn't get any simpler than this. The old pushup is an all but forgotten exercise that is excellent for building definition throughout the pectorals and anterior deltoids. It's also an outstanding indicator of upper body strength. (Which is why it's still used by firefighters as a yardstick of their ability to perform strength related tasks.)

It's irrelevant how much you weigh in order to test yourself. Give yourself as much time as you need (as long as you don't take the weight off of your arms at any point or stop for more than 10 seconds). If you're capable of completing over 100 push-ups, you are indeed a man's-man! Even 50 is still excellent. 30-40 is okay, but if you can't eke out at least 25, it's time to start specializing on your functional strength. Incidentally, although the two moves are similar, a good bench presser isn't always good at pushups. The reason being; pushups require more work from the stabilizer muscles, whereas bench pressing is more of a leverage lift.

Curls Against a Wall:
While holding a barbell, stand with your shoulders, back, butt and rear of your upper arms against a wall, feet shoulder length apart, approximately 14" forward.

Without any alteration of this position, or bending at the knees, curl the barbell to your shoulders maintaining a strict form throughout. If you weigh under 160 pounds, then a curl of 100 pounds for 4 reps is superior to most bodybuilders your weight. 80 is good. 60 is fair. If you weigh between 170 and 190, 4 reps with a 120 pound bar is superior, 100 is good and 80 is fair. If you're 200 pounds or more, you'll need to curl 140 pounds for 4 reps to be considered superior. 130 is good and a fair weight would be 110 pounds.

Chin-ups to Failure:
Once again, here we have a basic and brutal test of strength. Chin-ups are different from the chins you might do to develop your back. When working lats, the movement must be controlled and deliberate. The grip is overhand and the head moves back from the bar as you raise yourself in order to stress the latissimus. When performing chin-ups, the grip is underhand and you can use some "swing" in order to get your chin above the bar. If you can do 20, you're in good shape. More than 30 shows tremendous upper body strength. 15 is acceptable. Less than 10 is pretty bad. If that's the case, it's time to lay off that comfortable lat pulldown (with the light weight) and start chinning!

Body Weight Benching:
In order to keep it safe and keep it simple, try this. Warm up to make sure the muscles aren't cold. Then take a barbell that matches your total bodyweight. If you feel this is too much to complete at least 4 reps, abort the test! Don't feel bad. It's better to be safe than sorry. If you can knock out 5-8 reps, you're doing all right. If you can complete more than 10 reps, you're a damn strong dude. If you can do more than 25 reps, people better not tick you off because you're one intimidating son of a bitch.

Seated Holdout To Front:
This is probably the most exacting test of shoulder strength you'll ever find. Sit on a flat bench with a back rest. Lift a barbell and press it overhead. Then slowly lower it forward, keeping the arms straight until it's positioned at eye level and arm's length. Hold the bar in this static position for a count of five. If you're under 200 pounds and you can hold 75 pounds for 5 seconds, you can rate yourself as possessing superior shoulder strength. 65 pounds is good. 50 is fair. Less than 45 pounds is weak. If you weigh over 200 pounds, you'll need to hold a 90 pound bar to rate superior. 75 is good. 65 is fair. If you can't hold at least 50 pounds, you either need more deltoid work or you're carrying far too much fat and not enough muscle. Work on it.

Rep Squatting:
As mentioned, one's anatomy has as much to do with their squatting ability as does their muscular strength. Yet, if you want a reliable test of your leg and lung power, give this assessment a go.

Take a barbell that weighs half of your bodyweight. Now, perform as many deep squats as possible in a time span of one minute. Many non or beginning trainers wouldn't reach double digits on this one, but 25 reps is about average for an experienced bodybuilder. 30-40 is extraordinary. And if you can bang out more than 50 of those suckers...DAMN!

You may have noticed, no point system was used. That's because this test isn't meant to be a competition. Instead, it's a way of each individual judging his own capabilities. If you decide to test yourself on an ongoing basis, you may want to do it on an off-day when you're fresh. The test alone will be quite a workout! As a matter of fact, this type of training makes for a nice change of pace to your regular routine or as an addition to it when you want to step up your training volume.

So how strong are you? It doesn't matter if you don't excel at every movement, for most people have their weaknesses in one lift or another. But even if strength isn't your main priority, it's always good to know where you stand. It's also a good idea to check how far along you've come. See for yourself.





.
best post i have read for a long time. i like the bit about benching your body weight. i am a damn strong dude then in your eyes :evil: if i could give you k i would. very informative
 
i like the roid forum to and im clean now...there is not alot of response in the other forums in my view

I think training AND juice should be talked about in same forum and diet could be a forum on its own...To mnay choices.

German volume training I love

Nel good post aand Im looking forward to VIGOR!
 
Nelson Montana said:
It is, but the training section has their share of snobs. This forum has more energy IMO.

Sure, some guys have left, and a lot of new people have come on board. That's life.

Personally, I don't want to be like some old fart who just wants to hang around with the "old crowd" who all think alike. But if there's someplace where the info is more interesting, and every other thread isn't derailed by someone bitching because they disagree with a particular post, I'd like to check it out myself.


Guys that have left are National record holders, guys w/ totals over 1800, and guys w/ real lifting experience (like how to properly delaod, or how to prep for a meet, etc.... not how to do pushups)

Snob - present and accounted for.

The 'training' forum (as you call it) is called the 'weight lifting' forum - so this is crap in that regard. Maybe we need another forum.... maybe we need a supplement forum where all this dog shit can be pushed... wait, we have one... why these pushers aren't there slanging their nonsense is beyond me... oh wait, the 150lb juicers need supp's so here is Nelson.

Ulter and Mac were NEVER like this... not even close.
 
al420 said:
Guys that have left are National record holders, guys w/ totals over 1800, and guys w/ real lifting experience (like how to properly delaod, or how to prep for a meet, etc.... not how to do pushups)

Snob - present and accounted for.

The 'training' forum (as you call it) is called the 'weight lifting' forum - so this is crap in that regard. Maybe we need another forum.... maybe we need a supplement forum where all this dog shit can be pushed... wait, we have one... why these pushers aren't there slanging their nonsense is beyond me... oh wait, the 150lb juicers need supp's so here is Nelson.

Ulter and Mac were NEVER like this... not even close.

Gotta agree w/ this one too.
 
al420 said:
Guys that have left are National record holders, guys w/ totals over 1800, and guys w/ real lifting experience (like how to properly delaod, or how to prep for a meet, etc.... not how to do pushups)

Snob - present and accounted for.

The 'training' forum (as you call it) is called the 'weight lifting' forum - so this is crap in that regard. Maybe we need another forum.... maybe we need a supplement forum where all this dog shit can be pushed... wait, we have one... why these pushers aren't there slanging their nonsense is beyond me... oh wait, the 150lb juicers need supp's so here is Nelson.

Ulter and Mac were NEVER like this... not even close.

I sense some anger issues here.

True, ulter and macro never posted much in regard to training information.
 
Nelson Montana said:
I sense some anger issues here.

True, ulter and macro never posted much in regard to training information.


What a load of shit. No one asked them for training info, so they kept their traps shut. You on the other hand give out info w/ out a question being asked - 'Oh board love me please'.
.
 
Last edited:
al420 said:
What a load of shit. No one asked them for training info, so they kept their traps shut. You on the other hand give out info w/ out a question being asked - 'Oh board love me please'.
.



And who asked you?






.
 
GLEN said:
wow

anyways good post thanks nelson

Thanks. I'm just sorry people need to exhibit such vitriol for something that I presumed can only be helpful and positive.

I don't get it. State your stats. I'm curious to hear how guys did. Which ones were easy/ tough? Say what you might think is a good test. Yet some people get out right angry and insulting because it wasn't exactly what they wanted. Unbelievable.
 
DonCorleone562 said:
Bros,

I think this is a good post. I may not agree with it 100% not even 50%, but posts like this is what makes the board better. Exchanging ideas and opinions. It should not be a i'm right, you're wrong type of thread.

We can all benefit and learn more even if we dont agree with someones posts. Heck give the guy some credit, takes time to write that up.

true dat
 
I am going to do an active recovery training day of 1 set x maximum # reps for each exercise that you just listed while on cycle.
 
st8grad said:
I think Nelson is getting at functional strength as opposed to just the movements we think about as being the measure of our power. Bench press by all accounts is a terrible indicator of "strength" or even "power." How often are you pushing 300 pounds of your chest lying down? And yes, endurance is certainly a measure of strength and power. What are you gonna do if you get into a fight, compare bench presses and that's who wins? The person that can apply that strength combined with endurance and POWER is going to be the winner.


Very interesting
 
The person that can apply that strength combined with endurance and POWER is going to be the winner.
Good post but I must disagree with this statement^. It has more to do with the application of knowledge(ie:skill,experience) and thinking clearly. BJ Penn is not very strong at all and he doesn't have the best endurance but he is one bad muthashut yomouf.
 
needtogetaas said:
your better then this and you know this ant true.from a guy as well respected as you are around here I would expect more. :)


Sorry - my latest Tren run is over, and it has all but left my blood stream. I hate myslef today.... :chomp: :chomp: :chomp: Test is just not enough.


I do have to say things were WAY better this time a year ago. Boards are strange in that most posts are from Newbs and most replys from ex-newbs (not vets). I see a lot of half hazard advice thrown around in the AAS forum buy guys that have maybe 2-3 cycles under thier belts, weigh 180lbs, and bench 225. It is dangerous IMO.

Where did Mak, Galaxy, DBBT, Bruce, Black Sheep, etc, etc all go.... Even the monsters fromt he training forum have jumped ship to a certain degree.... It has a lot to do w/ all this supplement pushing.

It's like EF is the new open source supplement board....

Needto for Mod!
 
al420 said:
Sorry - my latest Tren run is over, and it has all but left my blood stream. I hate myslef today.... :chomp: :chomp: :chomp: Test is just not enough.


I do have to say things were WAY better this time a year ago. Boards are strange in that most posts are from Newbs and most replys from ex-newbs (not vets). I see a lot of half hazard advice thrown around in the AAS forum buy guys that have maybe 2-3 cycles under thier belts, weigh 180lbs, and bench 225. It is dangerous IMO.

Where did Mak, Galaxy, DBBT, Bruce, Black Sheep, etc, etc all go.... Even the monsters fromt he training forum have jumped ship to a certain degree.... It has a lot to do w/ all this supplement pushing.

It's like EF is the new open source supplement board....

Needto for Mod!

well you never said me.lol

any way bro bruce is always around galaxy still post mrx is here aap,quadsweep,pp,Anothy roberts "he trains pro's like it or not he dos know a lot"george,mac173,you"dont sell your self short",and many many more bro's still post all the time.jmead,Ihulk,njmuscleguyD_Mac,SpyWizard,Vascular Freak,mm107,all up and coming and deff worth having around.....blutwump,samoth both smart guys full of knowledge and abilaty to find answers for people.Nathan would like to see him post more but they just made him a mod and your not going to tell me he ant worth lessoning to.Twoguns,NYBodyguard,OMEGA I mean the list gos on and on.
so we dont have the same 2 guys controlling the boards its not the end of ef not by a long shot.this is a time for every one to step it up and help out.its a time for good to become great and the great to become the best.not a time to say "o shit 2 guys left I guess we should all quit" hell no man its a great time for ef right now in fact I think its never bin better for all of us.
 
worth a read. of course, there are different definitions of strength, and one person will prefer one over another. still, the 1RM has undeniable appeal in that it's all about lifting the heaviest poundage possible. the point about injury is always good to keep in mind. however, even though i care a little more about strength than size, i have no desire to test my 1RM. all i care about is getting stronger, and increases in working weight are good enough to indicate that.

i'm pretty sure most of my results on those tests would be weak-average, but then so are my gym lifts.
 
needtogetaas said:
well you never said me.lol

any way bro bruce is always around galaxy still post mrx is here aap,quadsweep,pp,Anothy roberts "he trains pro's like it or not he dos know a lot"george,mac173,you"dont sell your self short",and many many more bro's still post all the time.jmead,Ihulk,njmuscleguyD_Mac,SpyWizard,Vascular Freak,mm107,all up and coming and deff worth having around.....blutwump,samoth both smart guys full of knowledge and abilaty to find answers for people.Nathan would like to see him post more but they just made him a mod and your not going to tell me he ant worth lessoning to.Twoguns,NYBodyguard,OMEGA I mean the list gos on and on.
so we dont have the same 2 guys controlling the boards its not the end of ef not by a long shot.this is a time for every one to step it up and help out.its a time for good to become great and the great to become the best.not a time to say "o shit 2 guys left I guess we should all quit" hell no man its a great time for ef right now in fact I think its never bin better for all of us.

I love you needto.
That brought a tear to my eye.
J/K I agree the board is fine, I don't see it in any danger as long as the good knowledgable bros stick around and contribute.
 
Mac173 said:
I love you needto.
That brought a tear to my eye.
J/K I agree the board is fine, I don't see it in any danger as long as the good knowledgable bros stick around and contribute.
dame rights.I see vets talking about theres no one to help.wtf your a dame vet people are looking at you now suck it up. :)
 
needtogetaas said:
dame rights.I see vets talking about theres no one to help.wtf your a dame vet people are looking at you now suck it up. :)
I wouldn't quite consider myself a vet, but I try to do my part to help out w/ the small things.
 
Mac173 said:
I wouldn't quite consider myself a vet, but I try to do my part to help out w/ the small things.
and you do a dame good job.you almost got caught up in the basher/complainer/just make trouble group of meat heads but pulled threw in a big way. :) what you do know you know it well and use it to help others and thats what counts.
 
needtogetaas said:
and you do a dame good job.you almost got caught up in the basher/complainer/just make trouble group of meat heads but pulled threw in a big way. :) what you do know you know it well and use it to help others and thats what counts.
K your way.
You should be an inspirational speaker.
 
Ok Nelson, I always love your posts. This one included. I've been between cycles for awhile couse I'm studying to get certified. In the mean time I been putting my studies to work. (I think this will relate to topic) So I been doing alot of core and stability training. Which is what push ups and chin ups are. So are the wall curls. Anyway I feel totally gay doing some of this stuff but there is alot of science behind it. Long story short I am way stronger than ever on nearly every lift, in only 5 weeks. I haven't changed my routine much just added the 'gay stuff' before it. Now let's put this in perspective, If I told you you could add 20% to your bench in five weeks, would that peek your interest? Well that's what I got from push ups.
H2H
 
al420 said:
Sorry - my latest Tren run is over, and it has all but left my blood stream. I hate myslef today.... :chomp: :chomp: :chomp: Test is just not enough.


I do have to say things were WAY better this time a year ago. Boards are strange in that most posts are from Newbs and most replys from ex-newbs (not vets). I see a lot of half hazard advice thrown around in the AAS forum buy guys that have maybe 2-3 cycles under thier belts, weigh 180lbs, and bench 225. It is dangerous IMO.

Where did Mak, Galaxy, DBBT, Bruce, Black Sheep, etc, etc all go.... Even the monsters fromt he training forum have jumped ship to a certain degree.... It has a lot to do w/ all this supplement pushing.

It's like EF is the new open source supplement board....

Needto for Mod!



Theres just so many boards out ther and peeps get pissed at board sponsors and other members because personality's clash and before you know it they start there own board, and i have read a bunch of your stuff Nelson, sometimes i don't always agree but it's like any advice take what you can use and toss the rest! What doesn't work for you may work for someone else!
 
push ups work great and chin ups...

i did 1000 push ups today and boxed

then rest week I will lift heavy

push ups help my bench to IN THE LONG TERM

Im like 175-180 damn lean and I can do 225 15 reps

I am clean as well

needto for mod! Bump
 
al420 said:
Sorry - my latest Tren run is over, and it has all but left my blood stream. I hate myslef today.... :chomp: :chomp: :chomp: Test is just not enough.


I do have to say things were WAY better this time a year ago. Boards are strange in that most posts are from Newbs and most replys from ex-newbs (not vets). I see a lot of half hazard advice thrown around in the AAS forum buy guys that have maybe 2-3 cycles under thier belts, weigh 180lbs, and bench 225. It is dangerous IMO.

Where did Mak, Galaxy, DBBT, Bruce, Black Sheep, etc, etc all go.... Even the monsters fromt he training forum have jumped ship to a certain degree.... It has a lot to do w/ all this supplement pushing.

It's like EF is the new open source supplement board....

Needto for Mod!
No contradiction there :rolleyes:
 
al420 said:
Sorry - my latest Tren run is over, and it has all but left my blood stream. I hate myslef today.... :chomp: :chomp: :chomp: Test is just not enough.


I do have to say things were WAY better this time a year ago. Boards are strange in that most posts are from Newbs and most replys from ex-newbs (not vets). I see a lot of half hazard advice thrown around in the AAS forum buy guys that have maybe 2-3 cycles under thier belts, weigh 180lbs, and bench 225. It is dangerous IMO.

Where did Mak, Galaxy, DBBT, Bruce, Black Sheep, etc, etc all go.... Even the monsters fromt he training forum have jumped ship to a certain degree.... It has a lot to do w/ all this supplement pushing.

It's like EF is the new open source supplement board....

Needto for Mod!

I don't remember you being a greek god yourself... or a vet either. Sorry for trolling but I think you're being very hypocritical here. Please add something constructive or just don't post (<-- thats my contribution). :o

PF
 
hard2handle said:
Ok Nelson, I always love your posts. This one included. I've been between cycles for awhile couse I'm studying to get certified. In the mean time I been putting my studies to work. (I think this will relate to topic) So I been doing alot of core and stability training. Which is what push ups and chin ups are. So are the wall curls. Anyway I feel totally gay doing some of this stuff but there is alot of science behind it. Long story short I am way stronger than ever on nearly every lift, in only 5 weeks. I haven't changed my routine much just added the 'gay stuff' before it. Now let's put this in perspective, If I told you you could add 20% to your bench in five weeks, would that peek your interest? Well that's what I got from push ups.
H2H

Chin ups (palms away), are the best thing I have ever done for my lats. Also hit the arms/back very well.
 
right on pro-fiend, there actually really frickin hard to do. Also one of the best ways to help prevent one of the most common weight room injuries...

People aften consider the obvious, that is strengthening the stabilizers. But an often over looked benefit is neuro muscular signaling. That is in plain english muscle recruitment. Many may not know this but every muscle has built in (protector neurons) that send signals to the brain, so you don't hurt yourself.
For instance many bbs find it hard to stretch (or feel the stretch) in their calves, this is because of the golgi tendon organs that tell muscle to tense when they feel stretching. Remember those strength shoes to increase your vertical, well they blasted your calves past normal range thus producing more strength do to increased range of motion. And forcing you past the golgi tendon response.
Much in the same way a previous injury or nerve pinch, will shut off certain muscle fibers. And fixed range movements like Hammer Strength machines may in such case serve to further pronounce what is already not efficient movement. So these movements like push ups and pull ups demand synergist(stabilizer) muscle activation, as well as main mover muscles and even sometimes antagonist(opposite) muscles. So In short it creates an enviornment where maximum muscle recruitment is demanded. So your stronger. not more muscle just working the ones you have better.
A perfect example is squat vs. leg press. I can do like 400 lbs more on leg press. Why, are my legs stronger in press position? No I'm more stable cause my back is against a pad.
Ever hear "a wise man digs deep and builds his house on a strong foundation"? Well that is what your core is(foundation). If you can bench 450 lbs, does that mean you can push me that hard? Only if your back is against a wall.
This was short version, but although these exercises are indeed indurance type by nature, it is foolish to say they are not strength exercises. They will absolutely make you bigger and stronger. (In the long run.) Anyone ever heard of Charles Atlas.
 
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Charles Atlas sold isometric muscle courses in comics under the name of dynamic tension.

He also "supplemented" these with weight training 3x a week wherein he would "test" himself, but he only confessed to doing this later on.

I just did not like Nelson's post because 1. the scientific basis of strength and how athletes around the world are gaged is by 1 rep max strength.

2. Most of those exercises and the weight/rep range listed steer more towards endurance and cardiovascular development rather than strength.

3. Pushups do not build much strength. They build muscular endurance. Granted, moving onto harder variations like one-arm pushups or pushups/one-arms on a cable become very hard and can build great strength and soem decent muscle(look at gymnasts), but they only use about 60% of your bodyweight and that's if you do them textbook. Also, I have done cubic assloads of pushups in the past and at one point could do 15 perfect one-arms with each arm so I know something about this subject.


As for muscles, well when it comes to actually building muscle and strength itself, there isn't much difference between a barbell or a high quality machine like Hammer Strength besides the balancing aspect. Unless you are competing in weightlifting or powerlifting.

And the reason you can do WAY more weight on a leg press vs. a barbell squat(which is the best damn exercise ever for pure size and strength) is because A. Squats are harder period. B. you have to balance the weight and
squat your bodyweight plus that additional weight C. Your entire body contracts D. your abdominals and lowerback are heavily worked and strengthened from it.


If 2 guys weigh 200lbs and all thigns being equal, one guy can routinely rep 100lbs for 50 reps in a minute and the other guy squats 300x5, who is stronger? I hope that's obvious, but if not I'll explain why the heavy squatter is far stronger.

He is stronger because he is lifting more weight. His muscles, tendons and ligaments have all greatly increased in strength from having to bear and lift the heavy load. His cardio may not be so stellar, but he's strong from head to toe. If he were asked to perform half his weight for reps he'd look at you cross eyed and asked if you were a cardio guru. He'd probably bust out 20-30 reps before his cardio gave out. An ok showing.

The other guy has nicely defined legs with some decent size, and his cardio is through the roof! But, he's a weak bitch in reality because if he put that same 300lbs on his back by the time he hit parallel he'd probably drop like a rock with no chance of getting the weight up because he has not built the strength throughout his body to lift that weight.

You see, the stronger you get, the more reps with a given light weight you will be able to do. This is fact. If a guy routinely benches 225 by 12-15 and you bench +300 for reps, chances are good that you could out rep him with his weight, even if you don't typically go that high rep because you have strength in reserve which he does not and which is why he can't bench the heavier weight.


And lastly, when comparing 2 fighters of equal ability, the bigger, stronger man is likely to win. BUT, if 2 fighters meet up and one is significantly better at fighting than the other, but the other guy is alot stronger then by virtue of his surplus strength he is afforded some leeway over the guy depending more on his skill.

I've seen some smart ass scrappers pick a fight with a big strong guy that they were technically superior too, that got manhandled and curb slammed in seconds.

Pure strength and power can end things immediately. Endurance never finished anything fast.

I'm no expert, but I thought I'd clear a few things up.
 
i do 1000 push ups a day sometimes and when i add that to workout maybe once a week or sometimes 2 and i like the results-
 
GhettoStudMuffin said:
Charles Atlas sold isometric muscle courses in comics under the name of dynamic tension.

He also "supplemented" these with weight training 3x a week wherein he would "test" himself, but he only confessed to doing this later on.

I just did not like Nelson's post because 1. the scientific basis of strength and how athletes around the world are gaged is by 1 rep max strength.

2. Most of those exercises and the weight/rep range listed steer more towards endurance and cardiovascular development rather than strength.

3. Pushups do not build much strength. They build muscular endurance. Granted, moving onto harder variations like one-arm pushups or pushups/one-arms on a cable become very hard and can build great strength and soem decent muscle(look at gymnasts), but they only use about 60% of your bodyweight and that's if you do them textbook. Also, I have done cubic assloads of pushups in the past and at one point could do 15 perfect one-arms with each arm so I know something about this subject.


As for muscles, well when it comes to actually building muscle and strength itself, there isn't much difference between a barbell or a high quality machine like Hammer Strength besides the balancing aspect. Unless you are competing in weightlifting or powerlifting.

And the reason you can do WAY more weight on a leg press vs. a barbell squat(which is the best damn exercise ever for pure size and strength) is because A. Squats are harder period. B. you have to balance the weight and
squat your bodyweight plus that additional weight C. Your entire body contracts D. your abdominals and lowerback are heavily worked and strengthened from it.


If 2 guys weigh 200lbs and all thigns being equal, one guy can routinely rep 100lbs for 50 reps in a minute and the other guy squats 300x5, who is stronger? I hope that's obvious, but if not I'll explain why the heavy squatter is far stronger.

He is stronger because he is lifting more weight. His muscles, tendons and ligaments have all greatly increased in strength from having to bear and lift the heavy load. His cardio may not be so stellar, but he's strong from head to toe. If he were asked to perform half his weight for reps he'd look at you cross eyed and asked if you were a cardio guru. He'd probably bust out 20-30 reps before his cardio gave out. An ok showing.

The other guy has nicely defined legs with some decent size, and his cardio is through the roof! But, he's a weak bitch in reality because if he put that same 300lbs on his back by the time he hit parallel he'd probably drop like a rock with no chance of getting the weight up because he has not built the strength throughout his body to lift that weight.

You see, the stronger you get, the more reps with a given light weight you will be able to do. This is fact. If a guy routinely benches 225 by 12-15 and you bench +300 for reps, chances are good that you could out rep him with his weight, even if you don't typically go that high rep because you have strength in reserve which he does not and which is why he can't bench the heavier weight.


And lastly, when comparing 2 fighters of equal ability, the bigger, stronger man is likely to win. BUT, if 2 fighters meet up and one is significantly better at fighting than the other, but the other guy is alot stronger then by virtue of his surplus strength he is afforded some leeway over the guy depending more on his skill.

I've seen some smart ass scrappers pick a fight with a big strong guy that they were technically superior too, that got manhandled and curb slammed in seconds.

Pure strength and power can end things immediately. Endurance never finished anything fast.

I'm no expert, but I thought I'd clear a few things up.

Since i'm responding to this, id like to say that its dependent on what you're training for, which Nelson mentioned in his post. Most importantly the specific exercise (squats, pushups, bench, etc..). It's like strongman, if youre doing the stone lift, youre NOT going to train by doing bench or even squats.... YOU'RE GOING TO LIFT STONES!!! You can excel at anything if you train for it. Obviously the people that incorporate push-ups into their routine will score higher on Nelson's test, that doesn't make it a bad gauge though.
 
Ok, my bad. I did assume most in here are training for body building. Ghetto your correct. If we had too max out today, I would loose. However in your 100x50 vs. 300x5 example i assume you are indicating 300x5 is stronger. That is correct, however by adding just 50lbs the lighter lifter will surpass the heavier in actual strength. That is to say 150x50 takes more strength than 300x5. At least according to Brzycki, Epley, and Lander which are scientifically accepted (and professionally accepted) coversions for relative 1 rep max. And again that only assumes prime mover strength. One of my clients has a rotator cuff injury, and struggles with any tricep exercise. Synergism.

And the 'why am I stronger on leg press'question was retorical. As you suggest squats require more muscle recruitment, which only serves to prove my point. As an actual movement push ups are far superior to benching. However it would be better to add weight in the push up position for optimum strength routine.

Which brings me to last point. pushups are NOT only indurance, they are also very much balance(strength) and stabliity(strength). If you read my comment earlier you see why these are just as important. if you can squat 400 lbs can you squat 200 with one leg? No way, but keep doing those one leg squats for 4 weeks and come back to regular squat. I guarantee you'll be WAY stronger.

I want to be the best I can be. The most efficient angle on a lever produces the most force. Which is what your joints are (levers). If you have 5 ropes attached to the same object at different angles and locations would you rather pull harder on the biggest rope or pull evenly across all 5?

I agree with Nelson your brain is your best muscle.

And I really did add 20% to my bench in the last 5 weeks from push ups. In case your wondering that equates to jumping from 65 lb dumbell press to 85 lb dumbell press. That's flat bench set of 12, 10, 8. with an 85 in each hand.

That's a sweet ass gain for me!
 
this is my analogy for whoever says the endurance guy is stronger.

take a powerlifter who maxes on squats with 600lbs.

now compare him to a marathon runner who weighs maybe 140 and probably would struggle to do a rep with 200lbs. now who is stronger? you'll now say it's the powerlifter obviously. but that is a contradiction by your logic. why? read on...

take each leg stride of the runner as 2 squats of 140lbs (considering it to be a 1 leg squat. now assume each stride of his is 1 metre long. considering a full marathon is 42.5 kms, then he would have made 42500 strides each of 1 metre! each of those is 2 squats of 140lbs so it's the equivalent now of 85000 reps of 140lbs... say he covered the marathon is 2 and a half hours....

so we end up with 85000 140lb (body weight) squats in 2 hrs and 30 mins... the PL can neither run that distance, nor can he squat 85000 reps at body weight or even 140lbs in 2 hrs and 30 mins. so we have a winner. the 140lb ethopian :rolleyes:
 
silver_shadow said:
this is my analogy for whoever says the endurance guy is stronger.

take a powerlifter who maxes on squats with 600lbs.

now compare him to a marathon runner who weighs maybe 140 and probably would struggle to do a rep with 200lbs. now who is stronger? you'll now say it's the powerlifter obviously. but that is a contradiction by your logic. why? read on...

take each leg stride of the runner as 2 squats of 140lbs (considering it to be a 1 leg squat. now assume each stride of his is 1 metre long. considering a full marathon is 42.5 kms, then he would have made 42500 strides each of 1 metre! each of those is 2 squats of 140lbs so it's the equivalent now of 85000 reps of 140lbs... say he covered the marathon is 2 and a half hours....

so we end up with 85000 140lb (body weight) squats in 2 hrs and 30 mins... the PL can neither run that distance, nor can he squat 85000 reps at body weight or even 140lbs in 2 hrs and 30 mins. so we have a winner. the 140lb ethopian :rolleyes:


That made my head hurt.

Strength comes in many ways but I think there has to be a point where we're talking about stamina. Where that is, is subjective.

I still think getting into the 20 or so rep range is more strength than stamina. It's like a sprint -- it lasts only 30 seconds but with lots of "reps."

One rep max's are more a matter on tendon, ligiment and bone strength. Most guys who do well at that seem to have it from the start. Few people start out weak and become champion powerlifters. Yet you can start out scrawny and become pretty muscular.
 
Nelson Montana said:
That made my head hurt.

Strength comes in many ways but I think there has to be a point where we're talking about stamina. Where that is, is subjective.

I still think getting into the 20 or so rep range is more strength than stamina. It's like a sprint -- it lasts only 30 seconds but with lots of "reps."

One rep max's are more a matter on tendon, ligiment and bone strength. Most guys who do well at that seem to have it from the start. Few people start out weak and become champion powerlifters. Yet you can start out scrawny and become pretty muscular.

You have absolutely lost it mentally. Everything your saying is going agaianst all the sports scientists who've studied the human anatomy for the past 100 50yrs. 20 reps is not Srength you IDIOT. Absolute strength is determined from lifting the most weight you can for 1 rep. To test 20rep max is not a test of strength, its a test of muscle endurance and energy reserves.
And NO, 1 rep max is not more the matter of tendon, ligiments and bone strength mate. If your muscles can only contract fully with 100kg on the bench press, it doesnt matter how streong your tendons and bones are. The only way thats possible is if you have very stroing muscles and weak tendons and bones which wont happen cause training with your near max's will get u used to it. And 1rep max's dont injure you, stop being a pussy. Ive done 95%-100% of my max a few times a month and ive been injury free for a long time and im benching 300+ and deadlifting 480lbs with no belt.

CONCLUSION. You sound like a weak guy who wants to feel better about himself.
 
no1, You made this up, its does not contradict 100 years of science, At least according to The Nat'l Academy of Sports Medicine. What you are refering to is power. And that is a different style of training all together. If you care to see them I will site a minimum of 30 medical journals.

And Nelson there is a cut off, right around 30 sec. This is where phosphate/creatine energy production pathways are overtaken by oxygen pathways or aerobic. This is actual ATP production. The very definition af strength vs. endurance.

And Silver, you made an excellent comment. Thank you for using your head. I should have qualified earlier what I stated in above paragraph. We are only refering to strength trainig. Which would actually only apply to exercises under 40 secs. at the most. I can now do nearly 50 push ups till failure which does indeed take me more than 30 sec. But as I previously stated I've benn doing push ups for 5 weeks now adding 20% to my bench. And on that note I am not even close to being able to rip off 50 pull ups. I can do about 20 in much less than 30 sec. so def in strength range.

Now to be fair I will be going back to heavy bench for a few weeks say @ 6 weeks now that I have blown through my plateau.
 
no1_brawler said:
You have absolutely lost it mentally. Everything your saying is going agaianst all the sports scientists who've studied the human anatomy for the past 100 50yrs
.................................................



NO IT DOESN'T AND PULLING A COMMENT OUT OF YOUR ASS DOESN'T MAKE IT ANY MORE BELIEVABLE.



..........................................................




20 reps is not Srength you IDIOT.

............................................

AS SOON AS SOMEONE STARTS NAME CALLING BECAUSE THEY DISAGREE SHOWS AN OBVIOUS LACK OF INTELLENGENCE SO THAT MAY EXPLAIN THE FIRST COMMENT.


......................

Absolute strength is determined from lifting the most weight you can for 1 rep.


..................................................................

YET ANOTHER FACT PULLED FROM YOUR ASS. APPARENTLY THIS IS THE SOURCE OF MUCH OF YOUR INFORMATION.

............................................................

To test 20rep max is not a test of strength, its a test of muscle endurance and energy reserves.

..................................................................

SOMETHING THAT TAKES 20 SECONDS IS NOT WHAT I WOULD CONSIDER A FEAT OF ENDURENCE. PERHAPS YOU'VE HEARD DIFFERENTLY. BETTER CONSULT YOUR ASS.


...........................................................................

And NO, 1 rep max is not more the matter of tendon, ligiments and bone strength mate. If your muscles can only contract fully with 100kg on the bench press, it doesnt matter how streong your tendons and bones are. The only way thats possible is if you have very stroing muscles and weak tendons and bones which wont happen cause training with your near max's will get u used to it.

.....................................................................

I DON'T THINK THERE'S EVEN A COGENT SENTENCE IN THAT PARAGRAPH SO I CAN'T COMMENT.


........................................




And 1rep max's dont injure you, stop being a pussy.


..................................................................

MANY INJURIES OCCUR FROM A ONE REP MAX OR A MAXIMUM POUNDAGE LIFT OF SOME SORT. BEING SMART DOESN'T MEAN BEING A PUSSY. LIFTING MORE WEIGHT FOR 2 SECONDS DOESN'T MAKE YOU MORE OF A MAN.


..................................................


Ive done 95%-100% of my max a few times a month and ive been injury free for a long time and im benching 300+ and deadlifting 480lbs with no belt.

.......................................................

SO WHAT.


......................................................

CONCLUSION. You sound like a weak guy who wants to feel better about himself.

................................................................

I FEEL FINE ABOUT MYSELF. YOU, ON THE OTHER HAND, SOUND VERY ANGRY. AND NOT PARTICULARLY BRIGHT.

..
 
Dont need to know him. His whole point of view is bullshit. Theres only one way to test maximum strength and thats by actually going i and doing your max. No shortcuts to that
 
Ok this thread has nothing to do with maximum strength. You made it about that. Just keep posting your gains. We'll be watching.
 
actually it does have lots to do with max strength. read the original post carefully and notice how he says 1RMs aren't a true test of bodybuilder strength!
 
silver_shadow said:
actually it does have lots to do with max strength. read the original post carefully and notice how he says 1RMs aren't a true test of bodybuilder strength!


It's amazing how some people will take information with value to many and scrutinize it in every way possible in order to dissmiss it in order to comply with their own prejudices. What's up with that?

I maintain that a one rep max is not the end all be all indicator of strength, ESPECIALLY for a bodybuilder, since it won't do much in terms of building muscle. It's also responsible for many injuries.

Strength can be guadged in many ways. If you love one rep max's ...GREAT! Do them all day long. But don't put down another method of others testing their functional strength because you like to do something different, okay bro?
 
Nelson Montana said:
It's amazing how some people will take information with value to many and scrutinize it in every way possible in order to dissmiss it in order to comply with their own prejudices. What's up with that?

I maintain that a one rep max is not the end all be all indicator of strength, ESPECIALLY for a bodybuilder, since it won't do much in terms of building muscle. It's also responsible for many injuries.

Strength can be guadged in many ways. If you love one rep max's ...GREAT! Do them all day long. But don't put down another method of others testing their functional strength because you like to do something different, okay bro?

Well stop coming on here and making shit up and saying thats how you test functional strength. Ask yourself what is functional? Functionality is specific to what your training for. If your talking about testing your max strength on a specific exercise, the only way is testing your 1RM. And stop saying that you can get injuried doing your 1RM cause thats not true. People get injuried cause their forim is wrong not cause they're lifting heavy mate. An idiot can get injured benching 135lbs and a knowledgable guy can never get injured benching 400lbs.
 
Nelson Montana said:
It's amazing how some people will take information with value to many and scrutinize it in every way possible in order to dissmiss it in order to comply with their own prejudices. What's up with that?

I maintain that a one rep max is not the end all be all indicator of strength, ESPECIALLY for a bodybuilder, since it won't do much in terms of building muscle. It's also responsible for many injuries.

Strength can be guadged in many ways. If you love one rep max's ...GREAT! Do them all day long. But don't put down another method of others testing their functional strength because you like to do something different, okay bro?
dude, i didn't say i think 1RMs are the best way to train and become bigger. actually i know it isn't.

what i'm getting at is that an advanced lifter (someone who is natural, atleast someone who is on a more conservative dose of AAS and who doesn't have freaky genetics) needs to alternate between lower reps (singles/doubles/triples) and higher reps (5 or more). he/she has to cycle his training. so to say that one is better than the other (whether you say it or i say it) would be basically untrue.

there are of course approaches different from this kind of cycling (WSB would be one good example) but essentially they incorporate both high and low reps. they are supposed to be complimentary!
 
silver_shadow said:
dude, i didn't say i think 1RMs are the best way to train and become bigger. actually i know it isn't.

what i'm getting at is that an advanced lifter (someone who is natural, atleast someone who is on a more conservative dose of AAS and who doesn't have freaky genetics) needs to alternate between lower reps (singles/doubles/triples) and higher reps (5 or more). he/she has to cycle his training. so to say that one is better than the other (whether you say it or i say it) would be basically untrue.

there are of course approaches different from this kind of cycling (WSB would be one good example) but essentially they incorporate both high and low reps. they are supposed to be complimentary!


I agree with that.
 
no1_brawler said:
Well stop coming on here and making shit up and saying thats how you test functional strength.

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HOW ABOUT STOP COMING ON HERE AND BEING SUCH AN ASS? THIS ISN'T AN EXACT SCIENCE. I'M OFFERING SOME USEFUL INFO. ALL YOU DO MIS COMPLAIN.

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Ask yourself what is functional? Functionality is specific to what your training for. If your talking about testing your max strength on a specific exercise, the only way is testing your 1RM.

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AND THAT'S EXACTLY WAHT ISAID YET YOU SEEM TO BE LOOKING TO PICK A FIGHT WHENEVER POSSIBLE.


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And stop saying that you can get injuried doing your 1RM cause thats not true.

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OKAY. BUT DO YOU MIND IF I FIRST GET PERMISSION FROM THE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE GOTTEN HURT ATTEMPTING A ONE REP MAX?


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People get injuried cause their forim is wrong not cause they're lifting heavy mate. An idiot can get injured benching 135lbs and a knowledgable guy can never get injured benching 400lbs.

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WELL I DO AGREE WITH THAT.

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