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havoc is a good otc steroid

josenunes

josenunes

New member
bros , i have to share this with you guys , I `m in the first week of a havoc (2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol) cycle 20mg ed and the results are fantastic 2kg pure muscle in 1 week and no sides at all.
So far I can assure you that this beats anavar 40mg ed.
Next week I`ll go to 30 mg ed and keep it like that for 2 more weeks.
I know a lot of guys here don't like otc steroids but this one is very good , its anabolic/androgenic ratio is 1100/91 better than a lot of non otc compounds.

diesilbolan is 10 times as strong though. Its real powerful. you can get it here.

http://www.needtobuildmuscle.com/store.html
 
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bets thing about havoc is almost zero sides, good energy, gyno reduction, etc. i mean it's a legit steroid.

plus it has an almost prozac-like well being effect, you jsut feel happy and balanced.

but gains wise it's weak imo, i like phera-plex MUCH MUCH better but it has slightly more sides.

if you haven't run any orals before this is kind of how they all do, you'd get just as good if not better gains from var or winstrol oral, the ohter problem is the recommended dosages are low and for a good cycle i'd recommend at least 40mg/day (preferably 50) but at this dose sides start to creep up.

this is the tricky thing about orals, they put weight and strength on you so fast you can't help but be instantly impressed, but most of it is increased glycogen and water uptake into the muscle with a slight reduction in subcutaneous water retention in the case of this steroid.

this is why everyone recommends injectables, becasue really to have good solid keepable gains you have to promote nitrogen retention over a good 8 weeks plus period which is pushing it for a liver toxic oral. not to mention the fact that 8 weeks of havoc at 50mg/day is actually gonna cost you about 200 bucks + pct. and you could have run an inject cycle for that for 10 wks and not have been fucking with your liver and cholesterol levels as much.

the upside is john law isn't gonna come knockin on your door (yet) which is really teh only benefit to it, but it is a big benefit especially in certain states where it's a felony.

and this is why the DEA is retarded, testosterone is illegal but havoc is. makes no fucking sense. but this is the way it is.
 
10001110101 said:
bets thing about havoc is almost zero sides, good energy, gynecomastia reduction, etc. i mean it's a legit steroid.

plus it has an almost prozac-like well being effect, you jsut feel happy and balanced.

but gains wise it's weak imo, i like phera-plex MUCH MUCH better but it has slightly more sides.

if you haven't run any orals before this is kind of how they all do, you'd get just as good if not better gains from Anavar - oxandrolone - or winstrol oral, the ohter problem is the recommended dosages are low and for a good cycle i'd recommend at least 40mg/day (preferably 50) but at this dose sides start to creep up.

this is the tricky thing about orals, they put weight and strength on you so fast you can't help but be instantly impressed, but most of it is increased glycogen and water uptake into the muscle with a slight reduction in subcutaneous water retention in the case of this steroid.

this is why everyone recommends injectables, becasue really to have good solid keepable gains you have to promote nitrogen retention over a good 8 weeks plus period which is pushing it for a liver toxic oral. not to mention the fact that 8 weeks of havoc at 50mg/day is actually gonna cost you about 200 bucks + PCT - post cycle therapy - . and you could have run an inject cycle for that for 10 wks and not have been fucking with your liver and cholesterol levels as much.

the upside is john law isn't gonna come knockin on your door (yet) which is really teh only benefit to it, but it is a big benefit especially in certain states where it's a felony.

and this is why the DEA is retarded, testosterone is illegal but havoc is. makes no fucking sense. but this is the way it is.
Click to expand...
agree with everithing in your post , regarding phera plex i never use it but i did a var cycle as i posted and havoc is being far, far better with half the dose.
 
josenunes said:
bros , i have to share this with you guys , I `m in the first week of a havoc (2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol) cycle 20mg ed and the results are fantastic 2kg pure muscle in 1 week and no sides at all.
So far I can assure you that this beats anavar 40mg ed.
Next week I`ll go to 30 mg ed and keep it like that for 2 more weeks.
I know a lot of guys here don't like otc steroids but this one is very good , its anabolic/androgenic ratio is 1100/91 better than a lot of non otc compounds.
Click to expand...

2kg of bloat u mean.
 
josenunes said:
agree with everithing in your post , regarding phera plex i never use it but i did a Anavar - oxandrolone - cycle as i posted and havoc is being far, far better with half the dose.
Click to expand...

yeah i'm just sayin i thought the same thing with havoc, it ended up disappointing me in the end tho. but keep your diet on point and you should have good results.
 
josenunes said:
bros , i have to share this with you guys , I `m in the first week of a havoc (2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol) cycle .
Click to expand...

but gram for gram, how much of molecular weight of the stuff is 17a...that is the question. :worried:
 
eddymerckx said:
but gram for gram, how much of molecular weight of the stuff is 17a...that is the question. :worried:
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dont know chemist data , only the one that its on llewellyns book and that Patrick Arnold tested the compound and it was 100% pure, but apart from that I just sharing with all people here that my experience with this compound is better that with anavar so people should try it
 
can a moderator explain me why this thread was moved from the steroids forum ?
as far as I know this is otc but its still a steroid and its documented in a lot of steroid books.
 
josenunes said:
dont know chemist data , only the one that its on llewellyns book and that Patrick Arnold tested the compound and it was 100% pure, but apart from that I just sharing with all people here that my experience with this compound is better that with anavar so people should try it
Click to expand...

purity is not the issue--say its 1 mg and .50 of it is a 17a molecule and say in 1 mg anavar has .005 that us 17a---which will send you to india in search of a liver or turn you a darker shade of yellow than bart simpson?

my llewellyns' book is on loan to a bro so i cannot find out the actual weight and no site that sells it will provide the info...so i kinda suspect it is not good
 
eddymerckx said:
purity is not the issue--say its 1 mg and .50 of it is a 17a molecule and say in 1 mg anavar has .005 that us 17a---which will send you to india in search of a liver or turn you a darker shade of yellow than bart simpson?

my llewellyns' book is on loan to a bro so i cannot find out the actual weight and no site that sells it will provide the info...so i kinda suspect it is not good
Click to expand...
I`ll do blood test in the end of the cycle then I report...
 
I believe that havoc is the same as epistane and the gains this person receives are good "dry" gains not "bloat"

I was under the impression that these items, epistane and havoc have been discontinued.


>"<
 
eddymerckx said:
purity is not the issue--say its 1 mg and .50 of it is a 17a molecule and say in 1 mg anavar has .005 that us 17a---which will send you to india in search of a liver or turn you a darker shade of yellow than bart simpson?

my llewellyns' book is on loan to a bro so i cannot find out the actual weight and no site that sells it will provide the info...so i kinda suspect it is not good
Click to expand...

i'd be interested to know when you find out.
 
CrAzY Cat said:
I believe that havoc is the same as epistane and the gains this person receives are good "dry" gains not "bloat"

I was under the impression that these items, epistane and havoc have been discontinued.


>"<
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havoc was, but there`s a lot of clones out there.
 
hey what otc pct are best to use with this stuff? and i was told to get some cycle support do i take that with the havoc or before and after?
 
hemobolin 250 is epistane/havoc and some other thing combined.. good stuff.. as for pt nolvadex is always good alone with otc stuff
 
josenunes said:
they sell it otc and you can believe that its a steroid for sure, 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol
Click to expand...

technically it is a steroid --6,6,6,5 ring---but that says nothing about what it does or its effectiveness-- cholesterol is a steroid but it will not add 50 lbs to my bench


2wmeu1g.jpg
 
eddymerckx said:
technically it is a steroid --6,6,6,5 ring---but that says nothing about what it does or its effectiveness-- cholesterol is a steroid but it will not add 50 lbs to my bench


2wmeu1g.jpg
Click to expand...
you can see the profile in anabolics 2007 from llewellin , believe me this stuff works well...
 
8and20 said:
It is a pro-hormone so again it is not a true "steroid".
Click to expand...
sorry to disagree with you bro, pro-hormones convert to hormones in the body, havoc is like anavar its already in its final stage so its a oral steroid , no doubts about it, check in Llewellyn's book .
 
again, does anyone know if havoc is as good as 1-ad? tha ads compare it to 1-ad, but i dont care about the ads. id like to know if anyone here can actually compare havoc to something else thats proven
 
josenunes said:
sorry to disagree with you bro, pro-hormones convert to hormones in the body, havoc is like anavar its already in its final stage so its a oral steroid , no doubts about it, check in Llewellyn's book .
Click to expand...

the question is--are you selling the stuff? working for the company selling the stuff? are you compensated in any way, manner or form by anyone in anyway connected to it?

the reason i ask is i don't defend my wife as hard as you are defending a chemical :confused:
 
just bc Llewellyn says so doesnt make it so bro. if it is sold otc in the US it cant be a "steroid" as they are controlled substances.
 
eddymerckx said:
the question is--are you selling the stuff? working for the company selling the stuff? are you compensated in any way, manner or form by anyone in anyway connected to it?

the reason i ask is i don't defend my wife as hard as you are defending a chemical :confused:
Click to expand...
no,bro I defend the product cause it works, I`m Portuguese man the company that sell its from USA c`mon be reasonable.
I`m just saying what the product really is, its a steroid that its sold otc and it worked for me, I think that post our results with products its a good thing for the forum community but if you dont think the same way , I`m sorry about it...
 
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I took havoc for 6 weeks.. The strength gains on havoc are very good and noticable.. You feel amazing at the gym, you get sick pumps, within 2 weeks of taking it your strength levels will skyrocket.. I was putting up 20 - 30 pounds more in each hand on DB bench press 2 - 3 weeks after starting it.. All my lifts shot through the roof, and I gained a solid 10 pounds that I kept after doing PCT with toremifene for 4 weeks. I took up to 50 mg a day with AI cycle support. It dropped my bf a few percent, and I gained about .75 of an inch of solid muscle on my arms. Id give havoc two thumbs up for a 40 dollar legal steroid.
 
8and20 said:
just bc Llewellyn says so doesnt make it so bro. if it is sold otc in the US it cant be a "steroid" as they are controlled substances.
Click to expand...
some substances are not on the controlled substances list of fda , so they cant act before regulation .
companies launch this steroids for a short period of time then discontinue their production and guess what no problems at all.
2 months ago IDS was notified from the fda to stop selling one of theirs otc steroids that were given the users amazing effects, the fda identified the product as ....methylated stenbolone , everyone that knows supps already knew that but the fda only send the letter 2 years after and nothing happened to ids cause the methylated version of stenbolone was not identified on the fda list of forbidden substances, by the way I still haven't try the product(MASS TABS) but I stock up 2 boxes.
 
8and20 said:
just bc Llewellyn says so doesnt make it so bro. if it is sold otc in the US it cant be a "steroid" as they are controlled substances.
Click to expand...
In the MD magazine of march Patrick Arnold ("the Man" regarding steroids chemistry) wrote about epistane/havoc and he said that the product was a very strong steroid with a not so big level of toxicity, if you don't believe Llewellyn and Patrick Arnold I don't know what else to say...
 
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We will just agree to disagree :)

When the US classifies it as a controlled substance then I will consider it a true "steroid". Remember lots of things are called steroids just because of their chemistry.

josenunes said:
In the MD magazine of march Patrick Arnold ("the Man" regarding steroids chemistry) wrote about epistane and he said that the product was a very strong steroid with a not so big level of toxicity, if you don't believe Llewellyn and Patrick Arnold I don't know what else to say...
Click to expand...
 
8and20 said:
We will just agree to disagree :)

When the US classifies it as a controlled substance then I will consider it a true "steroid". Remember lots of things are called steroids just because of their chemistry.
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I respect that bro but if you do some research you`ll find a lot of good feedback with this compound, if its a steroid or not its secondary ...
 
too all who want to know:
" Havoc (2alpha,3alpha-epithio-17alpha-methyl-5alpha-androstan-17beta-ol) is a methylated derivative of a Japanese anabolic/anti-estrogenic steroid called mepitiostane (Thioderon). As such, it would be most appropriate to call this steroid Meth-epitiostane. Methepitiosane was first described in 1966, so it is technically not a new drug. It was assayed for anabolic and androgenic effect according to the standard animal administration experiments, and was show to display a much stronger tendency for anabolic (as compared to androgenic) actions. It was indeed determined to be a favorable steroid as far as reduced androgenicity was concerned, but never made it much further than that. The drug sat in research obscurity for a long time. That is until the modern ?gold rush? for unknown anabolic steroids that could be sold (albeit less than legally) on the sports nutrition market. Havoc is one of the latest and most talked about additions to this group of ?grey area? drugs.

Havoc does have a few things going for it; at least as far as finding a ?mild? steroid goes. For a given level of anabolic effectiveness (dose), you should notice less oily skin/acne, and will be less likely to shed hair if you are thinning, than you would with many other drugs. You are also not going to have problems with gyno, and the drug may even help to block this if your estrogen levels are a little high naturally or from other substances. But one must not mistake mildness in terms of androgenicity to mean mildness in terms of health risks. Some are mistakenly assuming that Havoc is both less toxic to your liver, and less damaging to your cholesterol, than other oral steroids, and there is nothing to suggest this is true, especially since no investigations into the heath risks of methepitiostane have ever been conducted. We do know that liver toxicity is directly tied to the steroid?s potency and resistance to liver breakdown. Given that methepitiostane is both potent and c-17alpha alkylated, a sufficient level of liver toxicity is assumed. The strongest shifts in HDL/LDL cholesterol are also seen with oral c-17 alpha alkylated steroids; so again, methepitiostane is likely to present some notable concerns here. The bottom line, Havoc is a potent yet mild (weakly androgenic) steroid, but it is still an alkylated oral. It should carry the expected liver and cardiovascular risks of other drugs of this class. Keep this in mind and you should be fine.

By the way, it is of note that there are versions of both of the drugs discussed above sold with packaging that carries Japanese characters on it. This gives them a very ?imported? look, and one might think they actually come from Japan. This is, in fact, just a product of creative (probably smart and effective) marketing. Both of these anabolic steroids (all known commercial versions) are actually being bottled for sale in the United States. "


taken from:
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/llewellyn/anabolic-steroids-02.htm
 
A couple of my buddies in the gym swear by Havoc. They are also on test and have been for quite a while. When they threw in the Havoc the strength gains were very noticable, to the point I ordered some also but have yet to try. Someone else had the other brand, Epistane, but seemed they had to take twice as much as the Havoc to get similar results. I too had always heard that over the counter stuff was a waste and had seen such many times in other lifters, but this Havoc stuff is a diff. thing all together. They have now ordered and received another clone, I think it is called Hemagumu or something like that. Looks very Japaneese in the packaging and expesive as hell. I told them to be careful with these orals and take a break, but once these dudes start to see the gains there is no stopping them and they wont listen.
 
One more thing, they didn't reorder Havoc because they were under the impression it is now illegal and assumed no one was selling it now. Is that correct?
 
in stereo said:
One more thing, they didn't reorder Havoc because they were under the impression it is now illegal and assumed no one was selling it now. Is that correct?
Click to expand...

not correct, it is still legal and I just purchased a bottle.

First time for me... Im just reading up on the best PCT for it...
 
havoc is a steroid just not classified as a illegal anabolic steroid
dhea is a steroid , prgenanolone is a steroid

the steroid in havoc is not classified as a anabolic steroid " yet "
it has a mis guided chemical name that leaves it out of the anabolic banned list.

rember andro was a steroid and was reconized as a steroid and banned.

steroids converts into other steroids in the body
winnie to dht ,test to estrogen,adndro into over a 12 other steroids.

I assume it will be gone pretty soon.
 
in stereo said:
One more thing, they didn't reorder Havoc because they were under the impression it is now illegal and assumed no one was selling it now. Is that correct?
Click to expand...
nope, havoc was discontinued by rpn but there`s a lot of clones out there otc
 
chazk said:
havoc is a steroid just not classified as a illegal anabolic steroid
dhea is a steroid , prgenanolone is a steroid

the steroid in havoc is not classified as a anabolic steroid " yet "
it has a mis guided chemical name that leaves it out of the anabolic banned list.

rember andro was a steroid and was reconized as a steroid and banned.

steroids converts into other steroids in the body
winnie to dht ,test to estrogen,adndro into over a 12 other steroids.

I assume it will be gone pretty soon.
Click to expand...

So what are all of the legal over the counter things still left? I have never really gotten into "legal steroids" or prohormones.
 
So is Havoc and Epistane still legal and available??? I'm seeing it for sale on the net?

Has anyone heard of epidrol? Is it any good?
 
MarcoPollo said:
not correct, it is still legal and I just purchased a bottle.

First time for me... Im just reading up on the best PCT for it...
Click to expand...

im waiting on mine... i bought cycle support to take 1 week before i start havoc and take while on it.

PCT... i bought post cycle support, activate extreme, and inhibit E. Here is how i was told to take this stuff.......



Pre cycle:
load Anabolic Innovations Cycle Support at 2 scoops a day or Life Support at 4 pills a day for 1 week before the cycle. doses should be spread out every 12 hours.

On cycle:

Havoc
20/20/30/30mg

Cycle Support at 2 scoops a day or Life Support at 4 pills a day

PCT:

Inhibit E- 2/2/1/1/1every other day
Post Cycle Support- 4/4/4/4
Activate Extreme- 4/4/4/4

Cycle Support at 2 scoops a day or Life Support at 4 pills a day
 
sheriff said:
im waiting on mine... i bought cycle support to take 1 week before i start havoc and take while on it.

PCT... i bought post cycle support, activate extreme, and inhibit E. Here is how i was told to take this stuff.......



Pre cycle:
load Anabolic Innovations Cycle Support at 2 scoops a day or Life Support at 4 pills a day for 1 week before the cycle. doses should be spread out every 12 hours.

On cycle:

Havoc
20/20/30/30mg

Cycle Support at 2 scoops a day or Life Support at 4 pills a day

PCT:

Inhibit E- 2/2/1/1/1every other day
Post Cycle Support- 4/4/4/4
Activate Extreme- 4/4/4/4

Cycle Support at 2 scoops a day or Life Support at 4 pills a day
Click to expand...

At your weight Id bump that dosage to more like 20/30/40/40
 
sheriff said:
im waiting on mine... i bought cycle support to take 1 week before i start havoc and take while on it.

PCT... i bought post cycle support, activate extreme, and inhibit E. Here is how i was told to take this stuff.......



Pre cycle:
load Anabolic Innovations Cycle Support at 2 scoops a day or Life Support at 4 pills a day for 1 week before the cycle. doses should be spread out every 12 hours.

On cycle:

Havoc
20/20/30/30mg

Cycle Support at 2 scoops a day or Life Support at 4 pills a day

PCT:

Inhibit E- 2/2/1/1/1every other day
Post Cycle Support- 4/4/4/4
Activate Extreme- 4/4/4/4

Cycle Support at 2 scoops a day or Life Support at 4 pills a day
Click to expand...

You will not be using a SERM for PCT? I hear you should. I will be getting Nolvadex for sure. You should also add Liver-Longer to your PCT because Havoc can cause havoc on the liver lol :) well, only over an extended period of time. Also Add Cissus and Taurine.
 
josenunes it has been a few weeks now that you have been on right? Are you off yet? What are the gains so far? Any sides yet ie hair loss low sex drive? I was really looking at doing anavar but if this is just as safe and no legal issues to worry about yet, then why not.
 
james629 said:
josenunes it has been a few weeks now that you have been on right? Are you off yet? What are the gains so far? Any sides yet ie hair loss low sex drive? I was really looking at doing anavar but if this is just as safe and no legal issues to worry about yet, then why not.
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I believe you can get 3-4 kgs in a one month cycle but it depends in the individual, I had no sides, a very good recovery with the pct I already post.
 
MarcoPollo said:
You will not be using a SERM for PCT? I hear you should. I will be getting Nolvadex for sure. You should also add Liver-Longer to your PCT because Havoc can cause havoc on the liver lol :) well, only over an extended period of time. Also Add Cissus and Taurine.
Click to expand...


Cycle Support does all this

SUPPORTS IMMUNE FUNCTION
PROTECTS MAJOR ORGANS
IMPROVES LIPID PROFILES
GOOD SOURCE OF ANTIOXIDANTS
SUPPORTS HEALTHY BLOOD PRESSURE
SUPPORTS LIVER FUCTION
 
sheriff said:
Cycle Support does all this

SUPPORTS IMMUNE FUNCTION
PROTECTS MAJOR ORGANS
IMPROVES LIPID PROFILES
GOOD SOURCE OF ANTIOXIDANTS
SUPPORTS HEALTHY BLOOD PRESSURE
SUPPORTS LIVER FUCTION
Click to expand...
yes it does but you still need a SERM...
 
i have a question...if it shows up as positive on a steroid test...why not just take something thats more potent and you will get better gains from??
 
josenunes said:
yes it does but you still need a SERM...
Click to expand...

Inhibit-E: ATD - Optimizes Testosterone Production, Reduces Estrogen

Post Cycle Support- INCREASES TESTOSTERONE NATURALLY
LOWERS ESTROGEN
DRAMATICALLY DECREASES RECOVERY TIME
HELPS TO KEEP YOUR MUSCLE GAINS
IMPROVES LIBIDO

Activate Extreme- Increases muscle mass. Increases strength. Increases free testosterone. ActivaTe harnesses Divanil, an extract of stinging nettle root, to increase muscle mass and strength, and decrease body fat in healthy men. Most of your circulating testosterone is bound or inactive. A plasma glycoprotein called Sex-Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) binds up most of your testosterone so that is cannot exert any anabolic effect. ActivaTe knocks out SHBG allowing your own testosterone to be free and build serious muscle.


Isnt 2 of these supplements considered a serm? They help lower estrogen..
 
artificialaspirations said:
this thread seems fishy. Lots of people chiming in how great it is with low post counts and never seen em before.
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I had just recently heard about Havoc thru a friend. I did alittle research on it and found that alot of people compared it to anavar or i heard winstrol. Also it is the same as Epstein (spelling) which is now banned. I get mine tomarrow so il let ya know how this works. I pretty much take creatine but have taken 1-ad , methyl masterdrol,and methyl 1p before. So im kinda new at taken Pro Hormons, how to dose them and PCT.
 
sheriff said:
Inhibit-E: ATD - Optimizes Testosterone Production, Reduces Estrogen

Post Cycle Support- INCREASES TESTOSTERONE NATURALLY
LOWERS ESTROGEN
DRAMATICALLY DECREASES RECOVERY TIME
HELPS TO KEEP YOUR MUSCLE GAINS
IMPROVES LIBIDO

Activate Extreme- Increases muscle mass. Increases strength. Increases free testosterone. ActivaTe harnesses Divanil, an extract of stinging nettle root, to increase muscle mass and strength, and decrease body fat in healthy men. Most of your circulating testosterone is bound or inactive. A plasma glycoprotein called Sex-Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) binds up most of your testosterone so that is cannot exert any anabolic effect. ActivaTe knocks out SHBG allowing your own testosterone to be free and build serious muscle.


Isnt 2 of these supplements considered a serm? They help lower estrogen..
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sorry non of those are SERM`s , and you really need one...
By the way , keep way from activate for the 2 first weeks of pct.
 
8and20 said:
We will just agree to disagree :)

When the US classifies it as a controlled substance then I will consider it a true "steroid". Remember lots of things are called steroids just because of their chemistry.
Click to expand...

This is terrible logic. Was heroin not a narcotic until the USA government banned it? The legality of the substance does not affect the reality of it.
 
crew9 said:
This is terrible logic. Was heroin not a narcotic until the USA government banned it? The legality of the substance does not affect the reality of it.
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I agree with you , if its a steroid its a steroid , it doesn't mater how its classified by the government but because of its chemistry...
 
Sensational said:
I just ordered this substance and will begin soon. Will keep people updated on results.
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\
DIDO on that. I placed my order and plan on buying a few more supp before i start my havoc dose. I want to ensure that i have my post cycle support. liver support and such before if dose.
 
any thoughts on how much longer this stuff may be available before it's banned?? guess I better get some before it's too late, or maybe it already is!!
 
josenunes said:
I believe you can get 3-4 kgs in a one month cycle but it depends in the individual, I had no sides, a very good recovery with the pct I already post.
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what exactly did YOU get, and how long was your cycle.
 
I have been reading on almost EVERY board that I have gone to that people are reporting 8 to 15lbs in 4 weeks. After pct they seem to be reporting only a 2-3lb loss.

I dont know, Im going to run a test 4 weeker of it and report back.

-Legacy
 
DJLegacy2k1 said:
I have been reading on almost EVERY board that I have gone to that people are reporting 8 to 15lbs in 4 weeks. After pct they seem to be reporting only a 2-3lb loss.

I dont know, Im going to run a test 4 weeker of it and report back.

-Legacy
Click to expand...


Please do. Pics would be a plus!
 
Im doing PCT for epistane now, I went from 226 to 242. I felt really good while taking it, only sides where the boys shrank a little.

Im taking nolva but to be honest I dont really feel like I need anything.
 
Crox said:
Im doing PCT for epistane now, I went from 226 to 242. I felt really good while taking it, only sides where the boys shrank a little.

Im taking nolva but to be honest I dont really feel like I need anything.
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Did you feel sick while on Epistane? I'm on my fourth week and I have felt sick the majority of the time.
 
bigdofba said:
Did you feel sick while on Epistane? I'm on my fourth week and I have felt sick the majority of the time.
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Ive read that some people feel a sick if they are taking too much. I see some people cant go past 30mg. Im probably going to start with a couple days at 20mg but get right into the 30mg dose because Ive been reading that most people have the best results in the 30mg range.

Also there is still the debate that Epi has some purity issues, but who knows if thats really true.

-Legacy
:evil:
 
bigdofba said:
Did you feel sick while on Epistane? I'm on my fourth week and I have felt sick the majority of the time.
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No I felt really really good. It was worth taking just from the buzz I got. I did start with a pulse, Id never taken anything stronger than creatine and my nolva hadnt turned up yet so I was only 10 20 30 for the first week then 30 30 30 for the second. So maybe easing into it helped me out.
 
This is the first pro-hormone I have ever used. I am using 30 mgs a day. Maybe it's just me but I have felt like crap while taking it. Very much like I am sick all of the time.
 
Because Patrick Arnold's business is to sell prohormones or designer steroids (whatever you wish to call them). His motivations are profits for himself

josenunes said:
In the MD magazine of march Patrick Arnold ("the Man" regarding steroids chemistry) wrote about epistane/havoc and he said that the product was a very strong steroid with a not so big level of toxicity, if you don't believe Llewellyn and Patrick Arnold I don't know what else to say...
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Ive never tried it, but I did do a cycle of ExtreamTren or Tren Extream, and it blew my mind how I hardened up and started getting real defines in just a few weeks, it looked like I worked out neturally for six months!

The down side is that I liked it so much...I ended up using real testosterone!:p
 
Havoc i have been taken havoc for three weeks now to try and get over my plat-to im not being funny but i have been going to the gym every day and not put on 1 lb i would not recommend havoc to no one listen don't waste a penny on this otc
 
jonnymad said:
Havoc i have been taken havoc for three weeks now to try and get over my plat-to im not being funny but i have been going to the gym every day and not put on 1 lb i would not recommend havoc to no one listen don't waste a penny on this otc
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So which is it? 3-4 times a week or everyday?
 
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