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the_clockwork
Guest
What are your sides and reasonings?
Oh no you didn't!
digimon7068
New member
man. . .this one always starts a shite storm.
me? abortion is killing. . .lots of people out there that need to get dead. . .most of them aren't babies, though. . .
me? abortion is killing. . .lots of people out there that need to get dead. . .most of them aren't babies, though. . .
T
the_clockwork
Guest
what about women who are using abortion as a birth control?
don't you think that is messed up?
don't you think that is messed up?
Very much for the choice, and even in some cases it shouldn't be a choice, but rather mandatory.
Total Misanthropy! Arrrrrrggghhhhhh!!!
txbondsman
New member
I'm pro choice, but that doesn't mean I'm pro abortion, I would never tell a woman what she could or couldn't do with her body. My hope is that she would have been more careful but what about the acidents w/ broken rubbers and if the normal preventatives just failed, gonna tell her that she HAS to have the baby, not me. I would never tell her that she has to carry a baby full term just to give it away either, that just seems to cruel to the woman. That's for the people who say, "there's always adoption"....
T
the_clockwork
Guest
digimon7068 said:
so you believe a baby is a human the second of conception?
T
the_clockwork
Guest
AAP said:
what about if you got a woman pregnant and she had an abortion w/o your consent?
T
the_clockwork
Guest
I've met AAP in person and he isn't gay.. we went went out and pounded some beers
digimon7068
New member
the_clockwork said:
i try not get that philisophical about it. . .i just think it's killing. . .it's really not any more complex than that. . .
the world is already over-populated and the population of assholes is growing at an alarming, exponential rate. . .that said, i guess i hope that the people that decide to have abortions are mainly the assholes that shouldn't be allowed to reproduce in the first place
the_clockwork said:
I'd send her a thank you card. Maybe even throw some money in there.
patsfan1379
New member
Thread of the Week.
What's a Bible Christian?
patsfan1379
New member
I predict one thousand pages.
B
borris
Guest
For it
you mad??????
you mad??????
borris said:
This explains your avatar so much better now.
But punching a woman in the stomach is not an abortion borris.
Nor is it acceptable behavior.
patsfan1379
New member
Beh.
patsfan1379 said:
meh maybe?
heh?
Bikini Mod
New member
If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one. What could be simpler? It really isn't all that complicated to me.
I'm Pro Choice but I'm not necessarily pro abortion either.
I am a big pusher of birth control, sex education (including the real gore aspect of STD's and the actual birthing process) and the younger the better and every year in school right through freshman year of college (after that hell, if that wasn't enough you're on your own) and no I don't give hoot what mommy and daddy have to say - it's human biology and ethics and teachable in school.
Humans are very often careless with their bodies, hearts and sexual organs.
That said I also don't think everyone should breed either - but people are allowed to make these kinds of choices on their own.
So if you have the choice to breed you should also have the choice not to bring a child into the world and as people tend to bring a child into the for the wrong reasons people will naturally use abortions for the wrong reasons as well. All you can do is educate people and hope they understood and heed the advice given.
While I find abortion being used as birth control to be reprehensible, I don't feel differently towards those that are careless breeders to bring children into the world to save their marriage, get a marriage or do what they think society and their peers expect them to do when they are not equipped mentally, emotionally, physically or financially to do so.
I am a big pusher of birth control, sex education (including the real gore aspect of STD's and the actual birthing process) and the younger the better and every year in school right through freshman year of college (after that hell, if that wasn't enough you're on your own) and no I don't give hoot what mommy and daddy have to say - it's human biology and ethics and teachable in school.
Humans are very often careless with their bodies, hearts and sexual organs.
That said I also don't think everyone should breed either - but people are allowed to make these kinds of choices on their own.
So if you have the choice to breed you should also have the choice not to bring a child into the world and as people tend to bring a child into the for the wrong reasons people will naturally use abortions for the wrong reasons as well. All you can do is educate people and hope they understood and heed the advice given.
While I find abortion being used as birth control to be reprehensible, I don't feel differently towards those that are careless breeders to bring children into the world to save their marriage, get a marriage or do what they think society and their peers expect them to do when they are not equipped mentally, emotionally, physically or financially to do so.
stosstruppe
Well-known member
samoth said:Quit trying to simplify the issue, dammit. One person's personal beliefs should always be pressed onto every other person in the world.
The way I see it, if a woman chooses to have an abortion, then that's up to her, and the bloke can't do fuck all about it, just like if a woman decides she wants to keep the child, and the bloke doesn't, then he shouldn't legally be required to contribute to it's upkeep.
Those religious nuts that actively campaign against women's right to abortion, jesus, cannae fucking stand them
the_clockwork said:
For it...IMO if you are not able to take good care of them dont have them. I would want to give my kid a stable/happy family and everything else he deserves. There is no way i would put him up for adoption, I wouldnt be able to live with myself knowing that my kid is out there being raised by someone else.
redsamurai
Banned
I'd go so far as to say 50% of the children being born in today's world, MINIMUM 50%.........are born into the wrong circumstances and start off in this world on the wrong foot. I'm not happy with a woman who's been careless and has to have an abortion, but so be it....it's between her and god......end of discussion. But the powers that be realized a long time ago that "WE" are a resource............a resource for them to manipulate and use. Unfortunately, most of us never ascend past that and just come back time and again into the same set of circumstances. There'll be a settle up one day though.........everything comes round.
the_clockwork said:
Yeah i dont agree with that one....i've worked at a ob/gyn place a few yrs ago and i've witnessed quiet a few disturbing situations...little girls as young as 14 with a few abortions, i mean c'mon-wonder where her parents are. I think there should be a law, set a limit...unless its rape then thats a different situation.
samoth said:Somehow, I don't think AAP needs to worry about that unless he gets raped.
That is a very real possibility for me each time I dare venture out in public. Hordes of lust crazed wimmin follow me around, I can practically hear their zombified hormones moaning my name as they gravitate towards my aphrodiasic orbit like a meteor hurtling through space.
samoth said:It's the woman's choice. And choice necessitates... like, having a choice and stuff.
I think most of the anti-abortionists are bible-thumpers who think every one of the 6 billion lives on the earth are important, in which case I suggest they go live in Africa or something.
I'm against it excepting cases of rape, incest or life of the mother being in danger. I am completely against second term abortion because I know of two second term babies who have lived. I am not a religious person - closer to a believer leaning agnostic than anything.
I'm also not going to state my reasons because it's too hot button to be civil about over the internet.
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Status1
Guest
For if the women or the child might not make it through alive.
javaguru said:That's the point of the interwebs...stirring up shit that won't change anyone's mind, just for fun...
I love a good debate, in person. But I've seen this one only go sour. On the off topic board for the school I went to for undergrad we actually banned it as a topic because grown adults were so incapable of behaving themselves when discussing this one issue. I also don't want to accidentally step on the toes of a female here, nor do I want to get grouped with the bible thumpers. I was actually pro choice in high school....then I went to college and observed a few (a lot of) things that drastically changed my tune. That's all I'm saying on the subject.
Oh. And I'm not against the morning after pill.
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Status1
Guest
After the first 12 weeks, no go unless the death issue came up for either the mom or the child.
javaguru
Banned
Pew research conducted some surveys on gender attitudes toward abortion.AAP said:
http://people-press.org/commentary/display.php3?AnalysisID=88
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silverstar1025
Guest
I think it is up to the woman and the situation. I have friends that have had abortions and I don't think of them as any less. Is it for me? Nope I got pregnant at 21 and took responsibility. I am so glad that I did also because my kids are the best things that happened to me. I decided it was not for me even though I wasn't ready because I was an adult and had a good job and it would have been selfish of me to not have that baby.
nefertiti said:
That has saved my ass a couple times now. I wish I could buy that shit in bulk like my Cialis.
digimon7068
New member
javaguru said:
shaddap, damn atheist!
digimon7068
New member
Gymgurl said:
something else we have in common
For it. There are enough deadbeat parents in the world. A kid shouldn't have to live with that.
I don't know why the Catholics still preach on this issue so much. If the parents can't buck up when the chips are down then they shouldn't be bringing a kid into the world. For those that decide to have one for cases other than rape or underage abuse the father and mother should have to involuntarily opt for mastectomy and vasectomy operations as punishment.
I don't know why the Catholics still preach on this issue so much. If the parents can't buck up when the chips are down then they shouldn't be bringing a kid into the world. For those that decide to have one for cases other than rape or underage abuse the father and mother should have to involuntarily opt for mastectomy and vasectomy operations as punishment.
txbondsman said:
Morning after pill.
T
the_clockwork
Guest
It's the battle of good vs evil
there are lots of cons to it but there are still pros to it
speaking about partial birth abortions (before they were illegal).. how can a woman carry a child that long and decide she didn't want it anymore? The kid had a beating heart yet many of women went through partial births
there are lots of cons to it but there are still pros to it
speaking about partial birth abortions (before they were illegal).. how can a woman carry a child that long and decide she didn't want it anymore? The kid had a beating heart yet many of women went through partial births
S
silverstar1025
Guest
the_clockwork said:
Some are lazy and just wait too long to have it done. Some I guess they think about it a lot and they finally realize they can't do it. I am sure in some cases too they think they can win over the guy or he will man up and be there for them the way she wants and if he doesn't she then decides that she can't do it. Who knows some chicks are crazy.
nefertiti said:
I forgot about that one.
redguru said:
What if it doesn't speak up?
redguru said:
What if it speaks a language I don't understand?
nefertiti said:
When you say that do you mean the "morning after pill" or do you mean the RU486 pill?
Some people (and I'm not saying you) don't know the difference or that there even is one. I was just wondering because the morning after pill is basically a high dose of an oral contraceptive.
T
the_clockwork
Guest
redguru said:
I would have to agree with this..
if we banned it all together the "shitty" parents list would grow immensely
T
the_clockwork
Guest
BNG said:
oh my.. valid point!
velvett said:
Nooooo. I mean the morning after pill. The high dose of birth control pill. Not the abortion by pill (though religious folk would say they both are). Though I guess I have less strong feelings about the RU486 because you have to take it so early on.
One more thing on the subject (ugh, I can't stay away) -
While I am against abortion in most cases, I don't necessarily support legislation controling it. I don't think there's any way to really protect the people I think should have the option (rape victems, etc), while limiting the rest. You basically would force rape victims into a situation where they would have to go to the police to have access (a tall order for some), and you might also get more women claiming rape when they weren't to get access to the option. It would seriously be a mess, a legal nightmare. I also think we'd see a return of back alley abortions. because I personally have no religious moral objections, they are objections based purely on observations, i'd rather it stay legal than push women into making desperate choices.
Interesting subject for the most part, if you have a brain, you have an opinion.
I actually was able to participate in a biomedical ethical debate about end/beginning of life issues from a pagan perspective at the magickal congress. What's interesting is that as community hospitals are closing due to funding cuts, increasingly it's the Catholic church that's taking over for community hospital services, which means it's the Catholic doctrine that sets the biomedical ethical standards. There is NEVER an excuse for the use of the morning after pill in the Catholic doctrine, folks, and even abortion as a byproduct of a procedure to save the mother's life is still considered murder under their doctrine.
There's a very real fear, particularly in some parts of the country, that someday the question may not be so much what your personal feelings on beginning (or end) of life are, but what OTHER people/organizations feel.
While we all had our own opinions, the one thing we could agree on is that both of these issues are a personal matter and no one should have the right to impose their personal ethics onto another individual.
My personal belief? I believe the decision lies solely with the woman, period. Nuturing and bringing life to fruition is up to her. I also believe in reincarnation and the true immortality of the divine soul. In other words, birth control and abortions be damned, you can't keep someone from being born who was meant to come to this plane.
Shall we talk about end of life measures and how they do not believe in using unconscious pain relief for unremitting agony, that instead you are to counsel the patient that suffering is good for the soul? They do, you know. Their doctrine, folks: "However, painkillers that cause unconsciousness need special consideration. For a person not only has to be able to satisfy his or her moral duties and family obligations; he or she also has to prepare himself or herself with full consciousness for meeting Christ." http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_df80eu.htm
Let's talk about bone cancer and prepping to meet Christ, shall we?
for the most part, if you have a brain, you have an opinion.I actually was able to participate in a biomedical ethical debate about end/beginning of life issues from a pagan perspective at the magickal congress. What's interesting is that as community hospitals are closing due to funding cuts, increasingly it's the Catholic church that's taking over for community hospital services, which means it's the Catholic doctrine that sets the biomedical ethical standards. There is NEVER an excuse for the use of the morning after pill in the Catholic doctrine, folks, and even abortion as a byproduct of a procedure to save the mother's life is still considered murder under their doctrine.
There's a very real fear, particularly in some parts of the country, that someday the question may not be so much what your personal feelings on beginning (or end) of life are, but what OTHER people/organizations feel.
While we all had our own opinions, the one thing we could agree on is that both of these issues are a personal matter and no one should have the right to impose their personal ethics onto another individual.
My personal belief? I believe the decision lies solely with the woman, period. Nuturing and bringing life to fruition is up to her. I also believe in reincarnation and the true immortality of the divine soul. In other words, birth control and abortions be damned, you can't keep someone from being born who was meant to come to this plane.
Shall we talk about end of life measures and how they do not believe in using unconscious pain relief for unremitting agony, that instead you are to counsel the patient that suffering is good for the soul? They do, you know. Their doctrine, folks: "However, painkillers that cause unconsciousness need special consideration. For a person not only has to be able to satisfy his or her moral duties and family obligations; he or she also has to prepare himself or herself with full consciousness for meeting Christ." http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_df80eu.htm
Let's talk about bone cancer and prepping to meet Christ, shall we?
txbondsman
New member
nefertiti said:
"you people", which I guess I'm one of, didn't either. I addressed it specifically. I said, I didn't think that a woman who WAS being responsibe and for whatever reason she became pregnant, i.e. condom broke/leaked, she's on the pill and still became pregnant, diaphram failed to work, contraceptive foam failed to prevent pregnancy, etc. I find it to be too cruel to make her carry a baby full term and then to have to give it up. I don't think that's fair. This complely disreguards the woman who doesnt use protection and counts on abortion for the first means of contraception...
Nefertiti, the term "you people" is so inflamatory, couldn't you have chosen better words, especially since I did address this issue? How does this sound, "You people need to read the posts"....
not to good IMO....
digimon7068
New member
javaguru said:
the line forms behind me sparky. . .
digimon7068
New member
javaguru said:
i wanted 5. . .i ended up with 3. . .i'm happy. . .and done. . .
B
bottleneckblooz
Guest
digimon7068 said:
But they ALL started out as babies.....born to a mother or parents that probably couldn't take care of it properly because they were too screwed up to even take care of themselves.
I'm pro choice.
txbondsman
New member
digimon7068 said:
ahemmm, wrong there Scooter, age before beauty!
T
the_clockwork
Guest
cindylou said:
so if you get prego w/ the 4th you will have it aborted?
