Do you believe in Mythical Creatures such as:

[samoth]

lol...I get you. Logics games about empty sets, etc. LOL.

Okay, now from a PRACTICAL standpoint and not from a roundabout game of logical deduction, do you believe that it is ridiculous for people to look for unknown species to explain the alleged sightings of Nessy or bigfoot?

Yes. Probably because I think in abstracted standpoints.

I do argue that the creation of a myth in today's world has to be differentiated from the creation of a myth in years past, thus adding a temporal element to the argument. I would work from the ground up.

Modern stuff like monsters or bigfeets? I find both utterly unrealistic and no more than a propagation of media tricks and falsifications. I mean, a dinosaur in a lake? Okay. What's it eat? How much does it eat? How much bodily waste does it produce? Radar is, by today's standards, a relatively simple technology. Rent a fishing vessel and hook up some basic radar. It's not that hard when we're talking about a dinosaur that somehow excaped the evolution and propagation of the rest of the world and it's species. Ditto with a big, hairy anthropomorphic monster. There exist no single creatures -- bisexual reproduction is pretty common among living things. Where's the families? Offspring? Finding new species of fish 3cm in length at the ocean's bottom is to be expected. Finding 30m-long dinosaurs in a friggin' land locked lake is just humerous.

Heather, do you consider, by your definition or ideas presented here, that aliens are a myth? Do they fit the criteria of mythological creatures?

 

[heatherrae]

Yes. Probably because I think in abstracted standpoints.

I do argue that the creation of a myth in today's world has to be differentiated from the creation of a myth in years past, thus adding a temporal element to the argument. I would work from the ground up.

Modern stuff like monsters or bigfeets? I find both utterly unrealistic and no more than a propagation of media tricks and falsifications. I mean, a dinosaur in a lake? Okay. What's it eat? How much does it eat? How much bodily waste does it produce? Radar is, by today's standards, a relatively simple technology. Rent a fishing vessel and hook up some basic radar. It's not that hard when we're talking about a dinosaur that somehow excaped the evolution and propagation of the rest of the world and it's species. Ditto with a big, hairy anthropomorphic monster. There exist no single creatures -- bisexual reproduction is pretty common among living things. Where's the families? Offspring? Finding new species of fish 3cm in length at the ocean's bottom is to be expected. Finding 30m-long dinosaurs in a friggin' land locked lake is just humerous.

Heather, do you consider, by your definition or ideas presented here, that aliens are a myth? Do they fit the criteria of mythological creatures?

I consider a myth to be something that is a concept or thing, etc that is fictional. Therefore, I do not know whether they are a myth or real. Nor, do I venture to know whether, if real, they would be complex, intelligent, sentient beings or something much less exciting.

I hold the same opinion with regard to Nessy or bigfoot. I think more than likely that, if they do exist, they are probably not a dinosaur or a hominid, respectively. However, based upon past eyewitness accounts of beings that many disregarded as being purely mythological, I believe that SOME BEING could exist that would explain the sightings and would further science by the identification of new species.

I, incidentally, think that their are other beings, which are often regarded as myth, than nessy and bigfoot that are way more likely to have some basis in fact because they are in more remote and inaccessible terrains.

 

[JumpBallWinner]

Kinda. If, at any time t there exists x, then x is not a myth, for we define a myth as something that does not exist (the empty set). See, this way, I can cover all bases. It's like giving an argument the ability to time travel.

So, in other words, you can say that something like the Lochness monster doesn't exist, and if it is ever discovered, well you still weren't wrong because once it's discovered it no longer fits the definition of what you were originally saying didn't exist?

 

[heatherrae]

So, in other words, you can say that something like the Lochness monster doesn't exist, and if it is ever discovered, well you still weren't wrong because once it's discovered it no longer fits the definition of what you were originally saying didn't exist?

Exactly. lol.

 

[heatherrae]

PS -- they have used sonar (not radar, it's sonar) to try to locate nessy, samoth. They have been looking since the 1970's.

The most famous was "operation deepscan" in the 80's

 

[samoth]

So, in other words, you can say that something like the Lochness monster doesn't exist, and if it is ever discovered, well you still weren't wrong because once it's discovered it no longer fits the definition of what you were originally saying didn't exist?

Kinda like an offshoot of the conceptual sum-over-histories method of quantum mechanics. Eh, okay. Not really. Bad analogy.

This definition holds perfectly well for all time both past and present while not wholly relying on specific semantical interpretation of the definitions which are guaranteed to change over time. But strictly speaking, it does present a logical fallacy. I just kinda delineated time, that's all.

But I still consider bigfoot and nessie believers to be a few crayons short of a box.

 

[heatherrae]

Kinda like an offshoot of the conceptual sum-over-histories method of quantum mechanics. Eh, okay. Not really. Bad analogy.

This definition holds perfectly well for all time both past and present while not wholly relying on specific semantical interpretation of the definitions which are guaranteed to change over time. But strictly speaking, it does present a logical fallacy. I just kinda delineated time, that's all.

But I still consider bigfoot and nessie believers to be a few crayons short of a box.

Believing that they are hominids or dinosaurs would be incredibly unlikely. However, I don't think seeking an explaination of eyewitness testimony to make anyone a "crayon short."

 

[samoth]

Believing that they are hominids or dinosaurs would be incredibly unlikely. However, I don't think seeking an explaination of eyewitness testimony to make anyone a "crayon short."

There have been countless eyewitness testimonies for flying saucers, little green men, and alien probing, too. Such testimonies are best left to the media and not science.

 

[heatherrae]

There have been countless eyewitness testimonies for flying saucers, little green men, and alien probing, too. Such testimonies are best left to the media and not science.

WHY?

There are very serious scientists looking for alien life.

We sent the probe to mars partially in search of life.

Why would you not want scientists to search for new species or to examine the contents of the universe. Who better than scientists? What is the harm?

Gosh, what if years ago Jonus Salk listened to someone who convinced him that there is no way that polio could be contained by a vaccine?

The best scientists are open minded, curious and passionate.

 

[samoth]

WHY?

There are very serious scientists looking for alien life.

We sent the probe to mars partially in search of life.

Why would you not want scientists to search for new species or to examine the contents of the universe. Who better than scientists? What is the harm?

Exosolar life =/= little green men in saucers giving anal probes, or the pejorative 'aliens'.

Life = microscopic bacteria.

Serious scientists =/= eyewhitness of flying saucer abducting cattle.

SETI = shit funding and only surviving due to public interest.

Exosolar radio wave detection extends far beyond looking for life.

 

[heatherrae]

Exosolar life =/= little green men in saucers giving anal probes, or the pejorative 'aliens'.

Life = microscopic bacteria.

Serious scientists =/= eyewhitness of flying saucer abducting cattle.

SETI = shit funding and only surviving due to public interest.

Exosolar radio wave detection extends far beyond looking for life.

You sort of fly in the face of scientific inquiry. YOu only think "real scientists" study things that we already know to be true. This attitude stifles progress. I say let scientists study every theory that they wantwithout all that political peer pressure and jeering.

Then, if they find something they believe is of merit, let the peer review begin.

 

[samoth]

You sort of fly in the face of scientific inquiry. YOu only think "real scientists" study things that we already know to be true. This attitude stifles progress. I say let scientists study every theory that they wantwithout all that political peer pressure and jeering.

Then, if they find something they believe is of merit, let the peer review begin.

Science has nothing to do with bigfoot or nessie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

 

[heatherrae]

Science has nothing to do with bigfoot or nessie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

Sure it does.

You can gather empirical evidence to prove or disprove the hypothesis that a large creature exists in the lake. If it turns out to be a big fish or a prank or a bunch of tires floating downstream, you still gathered the evidence in support or not of the theory regardless of whether the theory proves to be correct or incorrect. Many times you may learn more disproving a theory than you would have proving it -- happy scientific accidents.

 

[JumpBallWinner]

One of the men who led those expeditions at Loch Ness, and has also led expeditions into the Congo of Africa looking for the creatures that are said to inhabit the swamps and lake Tele is Roy P. Mackal, who has a Ph.D., a D.Sc. , and is a former professor of biochemistry at the University of Chicago.

Now, maybe it's just me, but those don't sound like the credentials of a man who doesn't have any understanding of science and is a few nuts loose.

 

[Mr. dB]

One of the men who led those expeditions at Loch Ness, and has also led expeditions into the Congo of Africa looking for the creatures that are said to inhabit the swamps and lake Tele is Roy P. Mackal, who has a Ph.D., a D.Sc. , and is a former professor of biochemistry at the University of Chicago.

Now, maybe it's just me, but those don't sound like the credentials of a man who doesn't have any understanding of science and is a few nuts loose.

And what did he find?

 

[JumpBallWinner]

And what did he find?

Some interesting sonar reports and underwater photographs came from his expeditions at LochNess.

The second set of pictures, the underwater ones, on this page.

http://theshadowlands.net/lochness.htm

The photos were takin by underwater cameras set to flash and take a picture on set timed intervals. They have been reviwed and studied by experts in photography and determined to be real.

Some things were spotted in the Congo expedition, but the superstition of the natives who were their guides, the unbearable conditions of those swamps, and the political situation over there made the attempts over there damn near impossible.

 

[army_stud]

I woke up with some mythical creatures after a long night at the bar

I second that, bigfoot can toss a mean salad.

 

[heatherrae]

I second that, bigfoot can toss a mean salad.

Be careful of the croutons.

 

[Cal_21]

Be careful of the croutons.

 

[heatherrae]

you don't like the crunchy bits?

 

[Cal_21]

you don't like the crunchy bits?

I like your crunchy bits... wait....

 

[heatherrae]

I like your crunchy bits... wait....

 

[layinback]

SCIENTIFIC METHOD: a body of techniques for investigating phenomena and acquiring new knowledge as well as for correcting and investigating previous knowledge.
it is based on gathering observable empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning. the collection of data through observation and experimentation and the formulation and testing of hypotheses.

1. empirical and measurable? (read quantifiable)

you guys are arguing about the kitchen sink and the fuckin toilet is busted. we do not have any evidence to observe much less measure. as far as eyewitness reports please google STIGMATA.
1. santa clause
2. big foot
3. loch ness monster.
these guys have sumthin in common.
ding ding ding.......not ashred of evidence to support existence.
no dna nuthin. save a few highly suspect blurry motion picture.lol.
just a short few hundred years ago we believed the world to be a place of magic, at the mercy of the gods. folks burned at the stake for the crime of epilepsy (demons). unspeakable horror was the soup de jur. then came along a couple of cats sayin "show me the money". CREDULOUS personalities endowed cerebrally a little tougher than most. a few more followed them and WHAMO! science. this is a philosophical thread that doesnt recognize itself as such. science doesnt concern itself with these arguments. this is like kirkegaard vs. darwin.

 

[javaguru]

SCIENTIFIC METHOD: a body of techniques for investigating phenomena and acquiring new knowledge as well as for correcting and investigating previous knowledge.
it is based on gathering observable empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning. the collection of data through observation and experimentation and the formulation and testing of hypotheses.

1. empirical and measurable? (read quantifiable)

you guys are arguing about the kitchen sink and the fuckin toilet is busted. we do not have any evidence to observe much less measure. as far as eyewitness reports please google STIGMATA.
1. santa clause
2. big foot
3. loch ness monster.
these guys have sumthin in common.
ding ding ding.......not ashred of evidence to support existence.
no dna nuthin. save a few highly suspect blurry motion picture.lol.
just a short few hundred years ago we believed the world to be a place of magic, at the mercy of the gods. folks burned at the stake for the crime of epilepsy (demons). unspeakable horror was the soup de jur. then came along a couple of cats sayin "show me the money". CREDULOUS personalities endowed cerebrally a little tougher than most. a few more followed them and WHAMO! science. this is a philosophical thread that doesnt recognize itself as such. science doesnt concern itself with these arguments. this is like kirkegaard vs. darwin.

I would have listed God as #1......the mythical being of all time that countless are convinced exists.

 

[layinback]

I would have listed God as #1......the mythical being of all time that countless are convinced exists.

you are right. the belief in an anthropomorphic "god" in otherwise intelligent ppl is baffling. i think bertrand russell had it right,"those things imbibed us at our parents knee"

 

[javaguru]

The more I studied religion the faster I became an atheist. As far as I know, nobody is murdering other people because they don't believe in nessie.....

 

[layinback]

The more I studied religion the faster I became an atheist. As far as I know, nobody is murdering other people because they don't believe in nessie.....

i was born and raised in the buckle of the bible belt. deep south baby!!! i have waged my little war. i think the best contribution to make is with ones children. my little darwinian off spring crush the little baptist off spring. of course they understand that charles darwin was the greatest scientist in history and evolution is THE unifying principle of science. my boys were reading theological arguments (pro and con) when others ther age read harry potter. these beliefs are dangerous corroding threads of society. viral systems that must be broken.

 

[javaguru]

i was born and raised in the buckle of the bible belt. deep south baby!!! i have waged my little war. i think the best contribution to make is with ones children. my little darwinian off spring crush the little baptist off spring. of course they understand that charles darwin was the greatest scientist in history and evolution is THE unifying principle of science. my boys were reading theological arguments (pro and con) when others ther age read harry potter. these beliefs are dangerous corroding threads of society. viral systems that must be broken.

I'm well known as anti-religion on ef.....I have a habit of posting Richard Dawkins links...teh second link, Q&A is the best....

Dawkins at Lynchburg promoting,"The God Delusion"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe7yf9GJUfU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR_z85O0P2M

 

[layinback]

I'm well known as anti-religion on ef.....I have a habit of posting Richard Dawkins links...teh second link, Q&A is the best....

Dawkins at Lynchburg promoting,"The God Delusion"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe7yf9GJUfU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR_z85O0P2M

selfish gene was one of my first (circa 1980) i am bertrand russell and daniel dennett fan. oh yeah diamond as well. dawkins is B r i l l i a n t. i just dont dig his p.c. take on race and IQ. but who am i? 9th grader from bama lol. oops...i am refering to diamonds take on race and iq.

 

[Mr. dB]

The logical woman -- now there's a mythical creature.

 

[javaguru]

The logical woman -- now there's a mythical creature.

HR in 3...2.....

 

[layinback]

The logical woman -- now there's a mythical creature.

evolutionary psychology: if women were vulan like, menz wouldnt get laid. ergo no propagation of species.

 

[Mr. dB]

evolutionary psychology: if women were vulan like, menz wouldnt get laid. ergo no propagation of species.

True. Men are smelly and hairy, no logical being would allow a man to penetrate its genitals.

 

[layinback]

True. Men are smelly and hairy, no logical being would allow a man to penetrate its genitals.

no offense but do you shave and use deodorant? lol.

 

[JayC9]

Irrefutable proof! Sadly the last ever post of the awesome Mango Sauce site.

http://www.mangosauce.com/thai_secrets/new_species_in_lao_kebab_inspires_1million_prize.php

New species in Lao kebab inspires $1million prize:

Identified for the very first time when served up to a hungry American naturalist on a skewer in 2005, a living specimen of the Laotian rock rat has now been photographed. Despite appearances, the creature - known locally as a kha-nyou - isn't a rat at all. Robert Timmins described his tasty new discovery as a "spineless porcupine."

At that stage, however, he'd never seen a live specimen so branding the enigmatic creature a coward might have been premature. For all we know, when ambushed by Laotian rice farmers brandishing sliced bell peppers and pineapple chunks, the bushy-tailed beast might have shown conspicuous bravery.

With surprising candour, the Wildlife Conservation Society naturalist added that "You then eat them [by] crunching up the smaller bones and spitting out the larger ones."

This may come as a blow to vegetarians.

Having prematurely cast doubt on the gallantry of his furry find, Timmins also jumped the gun by claiming that it represented not only a new species but also an entirely new family of mammals previously unknown to science.

Just twelve months later, however, the red-faced naturalist conceded to palaeontologists that Laonastes aenigmamus is actually a surviving member of a known mammal family that was thought to have become extinct 11 million years ago - making it a "living fossil."

Your chance to win $1million. Inspired by this remarkable scientific discovery, Mango Sauce has teamed up with burger giant McDonalds to offer a million-dollar prize to the first reader who discovers a live dodo in his Chicken McNuggets.

In a bonus "living fossil" promotion, any reader whose Filet-O-Fish disgorges a coelacanth will win a regular cup of coffee.

 

[PICK3]

HR in 3...2.....

ololololololol@