Do you believe in Mythical Creatures such as:

[samoth]

lol...I get you. Logics games about empty sets, etc. LOL.

Okay, now from a PRACTICAL standpoint and not from a roundabout game of logical deduction, do you believe that it is ridiculous for people to look for unknown species to explain the alleged sightings of Nessy or bigfoot?

Yes. Probably because I think in abstracted standpoints.

I do argue that the creation of a myth in today's world has to be differentiated from the creation of a myth in years past, thus adding a temporal element to the argument. I would work from the ground up.

Modern stuff like monsters or bigfeets? I find both utterly unrealistic and no more than a propagation of media tricks and falsifications. I mean, a dinosaur in a lake? Okay. What's it eat? How much does it eat? How much bodily waste does it produce? Radar is, by today's standards, a relatively simple technology. Rent a fishing vessel and hook up some basic radar. It's not that hard when we're talking about a dinosaur that somehow excaped the evolution and propagation of the rest of the world and it's species. Ditto with a big, hairy anthropomorphic monster. There exist no single creatures -- bisexual reproduction is pretty common among living things. Where's the families? Offspring? Finding new species of fish 3cm in length at the ocean's bottom is to be expected. Finding 30m-long dinosaurs in a friggin' land locked lake is just humerous.

Heather, do you consider, by your definition or ideas presented here, that aliens are a myth? Do they fit the criteria of mythological creatures?

 

[heatherrae]

Yes. Probably because I think in abstracted standpoints.

I do argue that the creation of a myth in today's world has to be differentiated from the creation of a myth in years past, thus adding a temporal element to the argument. I would work from the ground up.

Modern stuff like monsters or bigfeets? I find both utterly unrealistic and no more than a propagation of media tricks and falsifications. I mean, a dinosaur in a lake? Okay. What's it eat? How much does it eat? How much bodily waste does it produce? Radar is, by today's standards, a relatively simple technology. Rent a fishing vessel and hook up some basic radar. It's not that hard when we're talking about a dinosaur that somehow excaped the evolution and propagation of the rest of the world and it's species. Ditto with a big, hairy anthropomorphic monster. There exist no single creatures -- bisexual reproduction is pretty common among living things. Where's the families? Offspring? Finding new species of fish 3cm in length at the ocean's bottom is to be expected. Finding 30m-long dinosaurs in a friggin' land locked lake is just humerous.

Heather, do you consider, by your definition or ideas presented here, that aliens are a myth? Do they fit the criteria of mythological creatures?

I consider a myth to be something that is a concept or thing, etc that is fictional. Therefore, I do not know whether they are a myth or real. Nor, do I venture to know whether, if real, they would be complex, intelligent, sentient beings or something much less exciting.

I hold the same opinion with regard to Nessy or bigfoot. I think more than likely that, if they do exist, they are probably not a dinosaur or a hominid, respectively. However, based upon past eyewitness accounts of beings that many disregarded as being purely mythological, I believe that SOME BEING could exist that would explain the sightings and would further science by the identification of new species.

I, incidentally, think that their are other beings, which are often regarded as myth, than nessy and bigfoot that are way more likely to have some basis in fact because they are in more remote and inaccessible terrains.

 

[JumpBallWinner]

Kinda. If, at any time t there exists x, then x is not a myth, for we define a myth as something that does not exist (the empty set). See, this way, I can cover all bases. It's like giving an argument the ability to time travel.

So, in other words, you can say that something like the Lochness monster doesn't exist, and if it is ever discovered, well you still weren't wrong because once it's discovered it no longer fits the definition of what you were originally saying didn't exist?

 

[heatherrae]

So, in other words, you can say that something like the Lochness monster doesn't exist, and if it is ever discovered, well you still weren't wrong because once it's discovered it no longer fits the definition of what you were originally saying didn't exist?

Exactly. lol.

 

[heatherrae]

PS -- they have used sonar (not radar, it's sonar) to try to locate nessy, samoth. They have been looking since the 1970's.

The most famous was "operation deepscan" in the 80's

 

[samoth]

So, in other words, you can say that something like the Lochness monster doesn't exist, and if it is ever discovered, well you still weren't wrong because once it's discovered it no longer fits the definition of what you were originally saying didn't exist?

Kinda like an offshoot of the conceptual sum-over-histories method of quantum mechanics. Eh, okay. Not really. Bad analogy.

This definition holds perfectly well for all time both past and present while not wholly relying on specific semantical interpretation of the definitions which are guaranteed to change over time. But strictly speaking, it does present a logical fallacy. I just kinda delineated time, that's all.

But I still consider bigfoot and nessie believers to be a few crayons short of a box.

 

[heatherrae]

Kinda like an offshoot of the conceptual sum-over-histories method of quantum mechanics. Eh, okay. Not really. Bad analogy.

This definition holds perfectly well for all time both past and present while not wholly relying on specific semantical interpretation of the definitions which are guaranteed to change over time. But strictly speaking, it does present a logical fallacy. I just kinda delineated time, that's all.

But I still consider bigfoot and nessie believers to be a few crayons short of a box.

Believing that they are hominids or dinosaurs would be incredibly unlikely. However, I don't think seeking an explaination of eyewitness testimony to make anyone a "crayon short."

 

[samoth]

Believing that they are hominids or dinosaurs would be incredibly unlikely. However, I don't think seeking an explaination of eyewitness testimony to make anyone a "crayon short."

There have been countless eyewitness testimonies for flying saucers, little green men, and alien probing, too. Such testimonies are best left to the media and not science.

 

[heatherrae]

There have been countless eyewitness testimonies for flying saucers, little green men, and alien probing, too. Such testimonies are best left to the media and not science.

WHY?

There are very serious scientists looking for alien life.

We sent the probe to mars partially in search of life.

Why would you not want scientists to search for new species or to examine the contents of the universe. Who better than scientists? What is the harm?

Gosh, what if years ago Jonus Salk listened to someone who convinced him that there is no way that polio could be contained by a vaccine?

The best scientists are open minded, curious and passionate.

 

[samoth]

WHY?

There are very serious scientists looking for alien life.

We sent the probe to mars partially in search of life.

Why would you not want scientists to search for new species or to examine the contents of the universe. Who better than scientists? What is the harm?

Exosolar life =/= little green men in saucers giving anal probes, or the pejorative 'aliens'.

Life = microscopic bacteria.

Serious scientists =/= eyewhitness of flying saucer abducting cattle.

SETI = shit funding and only surviving due to public interest.

Exosolar radio wave detection extends far beyond looking for life.