DESPERATE - Special case in need of advice

[SoVeryCherry]

the idea of it taking 9 months to look my age again under my dress -
I'd rather kill myself. I honestly could not hang on and keep going day after day for nearly a year STILL LOOKING THIS WAY. I know myself.
I would give up entirely.
That bit of news isn't easy to swallow and makes a raspy voice and an army's supply of razorblades and shave cream seem bearable. And I haven't let a man come close to touching me so who'd know about that freakishly large clitoris?

Yea, sorry about being morbid. But atrophy feels like a permanent disfigurement, far worse than the scars from my suicide attempts. And it just might BE permanent. I've done my research there too... I really may be stuck this way, forever. I can find no definitive answers, but it is a fact that depending on the severity and the duration that led to it - atrophy can be irreversible. I don't know if I reached the point of no return..... but it certainly looks that way.

I confided in a friend I have known for a year, - this year I have been in the world of the living again - of my past. When I told this gym rat how disgusting my body was, she would roll her eyes at me and become annoyed, telling me I was "perfect" and "lucky" and she was tired of hearing me complain, i was "exaggerating" there was "nothing wrong" with me. "It's all in your head! You're just being insecure!" Two months ago I asked her to sit down before me, and I undressed in front of her. She continued to suck her teeth and roll her eyes and scoff at me. Til she LOOKED at me. She covered her mouth and stared at me with pity, shock, and bewilderment..... she doesn't argue with me anymore. Apparently it's NOT all in my head.

 

[Tatyana]

Macro means macronutrients, carbohydrates, protein and fat.

This is in contrast to the micronutrients which are your vitamins and minerals.

I also have the funny feeling you are being a bit harsh on yourself.


If I had a pound/dollar for every time some absolutely gorgeous girlie would say something horrible about her body, I would be filthy rich (I worked in fashion for a number of years, it really helped me adjust my views about my body as almost EVERY woman hates something about her body or ALL of it).

 

[SoVeryCherry]

I'm not surprised you would think that. My girlfriend thought the same thing. Til I stood naked in front of her.

 

[Tatyana]

the idea of it taking 9 months to look my age again under my dress -
I'd rather kill myself. I honestly could not hang on and keep going day after day for nearly a year STILL LOOKING THIS WAY. I know myself.
I would give up entirely.
That bit of news isn't easy to swallow and makes a raspy voice and an army's supply of razorblades and shave cream seem bearable. And I haven't let a man come close to touching me so who'd know about that freakishly large clitoris?

Yea, sorry about being morbid. But atrophy feels like a permanent disfigurement, far worse than the scars from my suicide attempts. And it just might BE permanent. I've done my research there too... I really may be stuck this way, forever. I can find no definitive answers, but it is a fact that depending on the severity and the duration that led to it - atrophy can be irreversible. I don't know if I reached the point of no return..... but it certainly looks that way.

I confided in a friend I have known for a year, - this year I have been in the world of the living again - of my past. When I told this gym rat how disgusting my body was, she would roll her eyes at me and become annoyed, telling me I was "perfect" and "lucky" and she was tired of hearing me complain, i was "exaggerating" there was "nothing wrong" with me. "It's all in your head! You're just being insecure!" Two months ago I asked her to sit down before me, and I undressed in front of her. She continued to suck her teeth and roll her eyes and scoff at me. Til she LOOKED at me. She covered her mouth and stared at me with pity, shock, and bewilderment..... she doesn't argue with me anymore. Apparently it's NOT all in my head.

I can really sense your desperation, frustration and anger about your body.

I will support you in any way that I can.


This may sound a bit odd, but I do think there is something to the whole mind-body connection.

What has made the biggest difference to my body (beyond fitness) was three-fold

1. I learned to love the skin I am in, no matter what condition my body is in (and it has been pretty yucky)


2. I stopped resisting how things were, and just got on with it, baby steps, every day, making a difference.

3. I looked beyond the fitness, and thought 'what do I want to be in great physical condition for?'.

The last one was so important. Yes it is great to feel attractive and wanted, but that was not the BIG one. The BIG one for me was that I would be able to make more of a difference in the world, if my health and well-being worked for me. I really have a BIG stand for global well-being and health, and this completely motivates me daily.

There is a lot that training and diet can do for you, but if your head is not in the right space, even getting to where you want to be may not make you happy.

You may want to seek out counselling as well to help you deal with the grief and remorse, I also believe that emotions and how you are being is reflected in the body (again more of the mind-body connection).

I also think you have an un-realistic expectation of what steroids will do for you.

I assert you are brutalising your body in an attempt to get back into shape, and the body does not respond well to this sort of treatment.

Getting a great physique is more about learning to love yourself and seducing your body into doing what you want it to do, not raping it for short term needs.

 

[Tatyana]

I'm not surprised you would think that. My girlfriend thought the same thing. Til I stood naked in front of her.

I may have to post some of my fat photos for you, or give you a link to where they are on the net

 

[SoVeryCherry]

Hoo boy. Tatyana will be able to be much more detailed, but I have a few more questions that will help. What are your stats - height, weight, bodyfat %? How many calories per day and what are your macro percents? Are you attempting to CUT or BULK? Are you on any drugs currently - birth control, thyroid, anti-depressants, etc?

Also, you didn't say how long you've been 'getting back on track'. Are we talking three days, two months, what?

I am 26. 5'3" tall, 108lbs, and do not know my BMI or fat percentage but considering I have a 23 inch waist and flat stomach and only seem to show any fat accumulation in my inner thighs, I would think it to be at normal level of about 16 to 18 percent. I consume an average of 1,800 calories per day.

I have no idea what MACRO is.

I have MUSCULAR ATROPHY. At 26 my legs look like a senior citizen's.

I HAD lean, defined muscle before this. I want to be cut and toned like I was before my year of suspended animation. It has been a year since that time in my life.

I do not drink alcohol of any kind, smoke, use any drugs, nor am I on any medications. I have extremely high estrogen levels and always have, my doctors are fully aware, not at all concerned and neither am I.

I began exercising again one month ago.

I hope I have answered any and all questions that might require an educated and informed answer to my request for advice. And thank you so very much for taking the time to show your concern and investing your energies in helping me.

 

[Tatyana]

If it took a year for your body to lose the muscle (and I am assuming you didn't eat much in your grief), it will take a bit longer than a month of training (and I think you are over-training which can be as detrimental to the body as NOT training), to get things back to where you want them to be.

With the biochemistry of steroids, they need something there to work on.

There are protocols for steroid use, if you think that this is the answer, in one of the stickies.

I think you would fare better sorting out your training for a few months and seeing what happens to your body before you decide to use or not to use steroids.

 

[Tatyana]

Realistic expectations about muscle growth by Iron Addict

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This topic is important because there is so much absolute confusion, myths, and outright lies made about how much muscle bodybuilders gain or are supposed to gain during a given period. A big part of the problem stems from the mainstream BB mags both focusing on the genetically elite, and their bogus ads about how good ol’ Fred, Bob, and Charles all gained 30 lbs in 6 weeks using cell-tech or whatever the product being pushed. And of course we have steroids and PH’s to lay some blame on too because everyone gains 30-40 lbs of pure muscle in a matter of weeks when on a cycle—BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH…….BULLSHIT!!!!!

And it has even got worse with the creation of the new very effective PH’s that have all the newbies swearing they are gaining 20lbs of pure muscle in 2 weeks on 10 mg of M1-T. And that is definitely not a M-1T bash, because I absolutely love this product. But…..let’s just say all those people that are talking about the 20 lbs of MUSCLE in 2 weeks on M1-T are talking out their ass.

Oh yeah, that brings up another BIG problem….the internet, where ANYONE can say anything, and they do, damn do they ever. To read some of the posts it should be no sweat at all to gain 20 lbs every month like some of these guys KEEP saying they do. A few should be right up to about 375 if they would recall that they already said a couple months ago they gained 20 lbs, and 20 right before that, and of course the 20 this month…and the bullshit goes on and on, and yes, people end up confused and left with unrealistic expectations.

Let’s first talk about the BIG gains and when and how they are likely to occur and then move to what comes next. It is quite common for newbies, and in BRAND-NEW trainees to gain 10-50 lbs their first year when training clean, and even doing quite a bit wrong. 10-30 lbs is more likely than the higher numbers and a good amount of that weight may very well come in the first few months. There is another category of newbie that may experience the same type of gains. These are the guys that are newbies to effective training. There are many, many, OK let me say it again, MANY guys that have trained for years and barely gained a fucking ounce. Usually because they follow the “routines of the champs”, and eat like little old ladies. When you take one of these guys and get them on a “real world” routine, and get them eating right they too often make newbie type gains because they never made them in the first place even though they have trained for years. I know, because I was one of them, and very often help people make these types of gains after training unsuccessfully for years.


Then we have the quick gains steroids and PH’s can provide many trainees. It may come as a big surprise to all of you guys out there that train clean and have never done a cycle but most people DON’T gain huge amounts of pure muscle when doing a cycle. Almost everyone though gains much better when “on” as long as they don’t make too many rookie mistakes consisting of changing their routine to the “pro’s” style while on, and not fueling it with enough food. Also After your first couple of cycles each subsequent cycle has diminishing returns. You lose a large percentage of your gains post cycle. Don't tell me you keep all or most of your gains. If it worked that way the average guy starting out at 170 that gained 20 lbs each cycle and kept 15 would only need to do 6 cycles spread out over two years to be a 260 lb FREAK. It doesn’t work that way sorry!Be that as it may, a well planned out 8-12 week cycle will net many people 15-30 lbs of muscle that they can keep quite a bit of if they do things right post cycle. The big gains are more likely to come to those that haven’t already made huge gains clean, and of course, those with better then average genetics.

OK, we have the big gain periods covered. Let’s now talk about what can be expected AFTER these periods are done and over with and the trainee is in for the long-haul. What is realistic, and what is average? Well like anything else that applied to humans it is as individualistic as each and every one of us is the individual we are. But…we can still provide some GENERAL answers to the topic as long as it is understood that many will do worse, and some will do better.

Lets just let the math do the talking and see if that and a little common sense can answer some of the questions for us. Joe average trainee has been training for a couple of years now and started out at 5’10 150, he floundered a lot with bad training and diet, but still managed to put on 25 lbs of pretty solid muscle and looks a lot different than he did at 150, but still is nowhere near satisfied. So…..he goes out and reads everything he can get his hands on and scours the internet forums and sees how poorly he has been doing considering lots of guys out there are talking about the 10 lbs they gained just last month. Hmmmm…..let’s do that; 10 lbs x 12 months and he now weighs 295 and is ready to make his splash on the pro circuit. OK, we know it doesn’t work that way, so lets half that 5 lbs x 12 months = 60 lbs and he’s now a 235 lb guy ready to hit the state level… Shit, it’s pretty obvious it doesn’t work quite that way either.

Now let’s get real. How about 2 lbs x 12 = 24 lbs Now a year later our 175 lb lifter is a 200 lb lifter and if he is lean at 5’10 looks like a million bucks, and turns heads wherever he goes. Now if he can repeat that again the following year, or come close to it. He is a bodybuilder by anyone’s standards and if the shape and symmetry are there he can think about competing at lower level events if he is so inclined. That is closer to what an optimal situation looks like. Most guys simply don’t have the genetics to do that good without juice and the gain pattern would probably follow more along the lines of:

Year one (if done right) 35 lbs
Year two 15 lbs
Year three 10 lbs

AND IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING SOME WILL DO MUCH BETTER, AND SOME MUCH WORSE.

This gets you a 210 lb guy at 5’10 in three years. I am talking about 5’10 and LEAN, not a fat guy because 5’10 210 and fat is nothing, but a 5’10 guy that is lean is something altogether different. Anyway, done at this rate 3 years COULD get you there. Is that not soon enough? Then you are in the wrong sport my friend because bodybuilding is not a 6 weeks to a new you regardless of what the supplement company ads may tell you.

I very often have personal training clients add a 10-25 lbs of muscle to their frames in a short period of time when first starting and of course then it slows down and many are dumbfounded because they don’t understand why they can’t just keep doing that.

The BIG gains only last a short time whether they are newbie gains, or gains from gear use. Enjoy them while they last and then settle in for the long-haul. If you do things right, you can make the long-haul a MUCH shorter trip. If you don’t, it will take a L-O-N-G time if ever to get to that point. Don’t eat your way fat like so many do just to watch the scale go up and stroke their ego. A full 75% of the personal training clients I work with come to me because they are simply too fat and still don’t carry that much muscle under the fat.

A LARGE percentage of these guys got fat by using insensible bulk at any cost diets, and this is simply a stupid mistake that can be avoided if you are realistic about what your rate of gain should consist of. Yes, you can and will make great gains when doing things right, and almost everyone can build a physique that will turn heads. But it isn’t an overnight process, and those guys that make it sound like adding 10 lbs of pure muscle is child’s play and can and should happen on a monthly basis are LYING TO YOU!

 

[wlmcrae]

Hi SVC,

from Wiki
"Disuse atrophy of muscles (muscle atrophy) and bones, with loss of mass and strength, can occur after prolonged immobility, such as extended bedrest, or having a body part in a cast (living in darkness for the eye, bedridden for the legs, etc). This type of atrophy can usually be reversed with exercise unless severe. Astronauts must exercise regularly to minimize atrophy of their limb muscles while they are in microgravity."

"An exercise program (under the direction of a therapist or doctor) is recommended along with whirlpool baths and other types of rehabilitation."

Number one, numero uno, Tatyana has already hit right on the head. Mind first. You're going to have to be able to see the person you want to be in your mind (not your mirror), LIKE the person inside that body and give yourself permission and time to heal. Would you ask a child to walk on a broken leg? What about run and dance perfectly? Would you shoot them or beat them if they couldn't meet your expectation? Even a broken leg can take up to six months to heal. You wouldn't be that cruel to a child - don't be that cruel to yourself! If you need it, get help from the counsellors or pharmeceutical (anti-depressants, tranks, whatever). You'd give that to a child - give it to yourself if needed.

It sounds from the very basic research that I've done (see above) that this requires rehab, just like a brain injury, a catastrophic accident, hanging out on space station Mir, etc. Your doctor and therapist may well feel that steroids would be of help to you in that process - but that should probably be their call in this case. In any case, steroids are the smallest part of any program (like 2% of results).

Now, your question is going to be "Why are they focusing on this MIND thing - I wanted steroid advice!" We want to see you healthy, happy, strong and running on the beach in your bikini at 27 or 28! We want to see you at 75 beating the young studs as you race your mountain bike in Colorado, dance all night and powder ski the following morning! (oh, and a young stud in bed )

CAN you beat this thing? Well, that is a question you're going to have to fight out yourself. Considering suicide immediately on hearing that you're not going to be perfect tomorrow . . is not a good sign. The fact that you're on here, asking question, answering questions . . is a very good sign.

Tatyana suggested passing us a detailed diet and training plan (what you're doing now). A typical day of food (see her post) and your weekly training plan is probably the base info that is needed at this point.

More soon!

 

[Tatyana]

Overtraining by Iron Addict

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Overtraining is defined as doing more training than your body can recover from, thus reducing or stopping size/strength adaptations from occurring. Everyone has a finite capacity to recover from the demands of lifting weights. What is not usually realized is just how intense these demands are on your metabolism and how much individual response to this varies. Some people are very tolerant of high loads of both volume and frequency. This means they can go to the gym more often and do many sets and movements and still have the ability to adapt and make size/strength gains from this load. Guess who these people generally are? Yup, they are the huge guys you see in the mags that win the contests. Unfortunately they are the role models that most people base their training on.

What is failed to be understood is that unless you have the same capacity to recover from training as they do you will overtrain badly and not grow. OVERTRAINING IS THE SINGLE BIGGEST REASON MOST TRAINEES MAKE SLOW OR NO PROGRESS! OK, so now that we know that, what is undertraining? It's simple and quite frankly is not usually the problem. Undertraining is not imposing an adequate stress on your musculature by not forcing it to more than it is accustomed to. Unless you constantly force your muscles to do a task they cannot do you have not provided adequate stimulus for growth. "Pumpers" are most often guilty of this. They go to the gym and do their 3 sets of ten of three movements and as long as they get their sets in and achieve a good pump they are happy.

Unfortunately they don't send the growth signal to their bod this way. Never attempting more then you are capable of will leave you stalemated. As far as not hitting a muscle often enough, this is just not a factor. Almost everyone hits a muscle at least once a week and this is fine and even hitting a muscle every 9-10 days will work. It takes much longer for adaptation to occur than most people realize. After you work a muscle and provide stimulus for growth two things must occur. First recovery, then adaptation (growth).


So how do you know if your overtraining? Well the real barometer should be your training weights. You should be seeing increases in about every movement from week to week. These increases need not be big but unless they are occurring you need to revisit your program and make some changes. Adding one rep, or 2.5 lbs to a movement is significant but unless it is occurring you just repeated the same workout as last time and as long as you are doing the same weights your gonna have the same body.

VERY LITTLE VOLUME IS NEEDED TO STIMULATE GAINS! Using back as an example if you are doing one movement for width and one for thickness you have it covered. Why add more? If you do your warm-ups and then do 2 all out sets to failure you have surely stimulated growth, why do more? Remember you grow proportionately to the degree you do not overtrain (of coarse without proper nutrition NOTHING will happen but that's another story).

There is a wonderful magazine called “Hardgainer” that is written catering to drug-free genetically typical people. Why would that be of interest to us gear-heads? Well this mag has AWESOME examples that illustrates just how little training is actually needed for growth and how people that NEVER made gains get big by training within their ability to recover between workouts.


If you are not making significant progress on your current training program HOW DO YOU EVER SUPPOSE IT'S GOING TO “MAGICALLY” ONE DAY START WORKING? Everyone can grow off of simple routines done not more than 3-4 days a week (for many people 4 days is too much) but very few can tolerate lots of exercises and lots of sets done many days a week.

Adding more movements and sets is RARELY the answer if your progress is not satisfactory. If it's not working REDUCE, if progress is not forthcoming reduce again, and again until you are growing. SOME PEOPLE HAVE VERY LITTLE ABILITY TO TOLERATE HEAVY TRAINING! They can still achieve great results but have to abbreviate their training radically to be able to recover. WHO CARES IF THE APPROACH IS RADICAL AS LONG AS THE RESULTS ARE? OVERTRAINING = SLOW OR NO GROWTH EOD. Don't get trapped in the OT rut. It is far better to do a program that is basic and allows you to make progress on a few movements than one designed to “hit the muscle from all angles” and not grow.


Iron Addict