Deadlifts - slow or explosive off the floor?

[anthrax]

Explosive concentric

Controled first part of the eccentric (till the barbell is at knee level)
and then I let the BB touch the floor

 

[TheOak84]

Definitely. Happens all the time. There's no benefit to trying to lift fast, and only a big downside.

since speed and strenght go hand in hand, i beg to differ...

i train for speed all the time and have never gotten hurt, so have many here.

form is key

 

[BiggT]

As fast as humanly possible, as long as you're smooth. the more speed the better, just don't get jerky or sloppy.

They say 'speed kills' for a reason. There IS a lot more to the deadlift than grip and rip, however, that is in terms of setup and bar path and not getting sloppy. Once your form is proficient and you have a good groove and bar path and bodily positioning and the form becomes second nature, you must pull fast. You can never be too fast or explosive.

Like the Oak said in the post above, if your form is good, you won't get hurt. Slow pulling is not what I mean by good form, slow pulling is for fitness geeks and guys that have been pulling no more than 225 for the past 10 years. If you want to be slow, lift slow....if you want to be strong and fast, speed is the key. Good form is setup, bar path, and body positioning. Pull fast and explosively once you have good form, if you lift right you will not get hurt. The best deadlifters in the world pull fast, and rarely get hurt.....the average gym rat who doesn't know how to pull are the ones preaching this is dangerous and that hurts your back and blah blah blah.

 

[Tweakle]

Unless your form is drilled in for every rep then you'll likely lose your leverage, raise your hips too fast if your try to pull fast from the start and actually make the rep harder (plus you'll increase your chance of getting hurt if you get out of the groove)

Build up speed when the bar is moving imo

 

[BiggT]

Unless your form is drilled in for every rep then you'll likely lose your leverage, raise your hips too fast if your try to pull fast from the start and actually make the rep harder (plus you'll increase your chance of getting hurt if you get out of the groove)

Build up speed when the bar is moving imo

This is a good point, and I have to admitt, it is a point I failed to address. I was thinking more in terms of executing one rep.....but this is correct, and is also what I meant when I said don't be sloppy or jerky, don't jam the bar off the floor or bend the elbows, don't bounce it off the floor between reps either, etc....when I say lift fast, I tend to take these points for granted.

Deadlift form is a topic of debate. Honestly, when I go all out and hit heavy singles, doubles, or triples, my form isn't textbook perfect, maybe close a lot of times, but there are minor breakdowns.....some guys are 700-800lb deadlifters and they do so with a rounded back, in my opinion this is okay if they understand their body, have a strong core, and understand their individual leverages. Sometimes when repping deadlifts for a max number of reps (say, in a strongman contest), the form naturally breaks, an advanced lifter can better manage fatigue and understand how to stay injury free more so than a beginner who never learned how to pull textbook to begin with. If your interest is bodybuilding, you'd probably want to keep a little more textbook form. A lot of world-class powerlifters break down a little with heavy attempts, a good deal of them don't break down at all with big singles, this always stirs up debate, someone will point out an 800 pul with a rounded back, someone will counter with an 800 pull executed to perfection, if you ask me , at that level a pull is a pull. It is an individual thing, but a beginner should learn how to pull textbook at first. I think if you sweat every little form detail, you'll never really laod the bar up. A lot of high school coaches won't let the kids DL because of common form breakdowns being coupled with the teenage ego leading to many injuries.

As far as rounding the back. I do not encourage it, and I would never 'teach' somebody learning to pull to do this, however, I have seen enough 700 plus pound pulls with a rounded back to know better than to bash it. Hell, I have straight-leg deadlifted pretty close to my conventional pull with no problems.....a lot of it comes down to not being jerky and having a strong core. This, of course, is a strength training perspective. From a hypertrophy and teaching perspective, I have to say lift as close to perfect form as you can.....what I do and what many others do is not what a beginner or a guy looking to just build some size should do.......sometimes you have a situation of "do as I say, not as I do"......but I hope my honesty helped a little, and there are two sides to this....sometimes how you teach and what an advanced lifter does to keep advancing.

Thanks for the post Tweakle, because I wasn't even going to bother going into that, but I think it is important, and you do raise an EXCELLENT issue.

 

[BiggT]

Another example I thought of.....not deadlifts, but same issue. NOBODY in their right mind would ever teach somebody to do the olympic lifts by pulling with their arms. It is incorrect, inefficient, and dangerous. Now, watch a video of world record holder Hossein Reza Zadeh. He pulls with his arms. NOBODY in their right mind would ever change what he does. Nobody would advise his technique, but nobody is going to suggest he change his form either. He happens to be phenomenally strong, and that's probably why he can get away with it.....but it is not advisable for anybody learning the lifts.

 

[Jim Ouini]

I understand what everyone's saying, appreciate all the replies. For me I agree my goal should be speed with perfect form, theoretically.

Practically speaking, though, my form can be 'perfect' (for arguments sake ) at, say, 70% 1RM, whereas at 95% 1RM there's some breakdowns - I'm not talking rounded back or hips shooting up - just where it seems like it's 'less strict' - I think most people probably know this feeling. Speed in this context was the crux of my original question.

Biggt, as you say, it's key to know your body - I prefer to bail out if I sense my lower back is starting to round, but that's just me, I started with RDL's. I have a friend who SLDL's a ton with rounded back so when he deadlifts I just let him be (doesn't mean I don't cringe a little bit when I watch him, though )

Anyway, very informative post for me. Hardly anyone deadlifts at my gym so I can't get much constructive criticism or helpful discussion. Thanks people.

 

[Devastation]

when i learned to rip the bar from the floor, my deadlift shot up

explosion is necessary imo

 

[Tweakle]

biggT, I figured you mean that but I just wanted to clarify the point.. and my back is far from arrow straight when I pull 700+ but I think that until you've got the deadlift down pat then speed from the start can do more harm than good.. I remember blowing my back out with 315 back when I was a newb trying to snatch at the thing