creatine and caffeine

[pact]

hi guys , i'm new to the board and wanted to say you guys do a great job sharing info and personal experiences. i'm 24, 6'3 and 198 lbs, and currently taking creatine (for 2 weeks), i know caffeine's a diuretic, but how bad is taking an ECA stack along with the creatine? or is it okay if taken at different times? i need to lose a little fat on the sides and to see my lower abs.
thanks

 

[pact]

please help guys. i dont want to want my creatine with by taking an eca stack.
thanks

 

[pact]

waste, not want

 

[Thatch]

I remember reading a post that stated that only one study showed caffeine to interfgere with creatine and that it was only the performance enhancement, not the creatine going into the muscle (which is what would make you get bigger).

 

[AnabolicDiabetic]

Caffiene in VERY high amount, like grams, will hinder the benefits of creatine...lower doses won't. I'd do a bulking cycles with creatine, increased calories and protein and then do a cutting cycle off creatine with less calories/carbs and same protein intake. Separate cycles of cutting and bulking are more efficient than trying to do both at once. Good luck- AD

 

[pact]

thanks guys, AD,i tried bulking my first two weeks on creatine (kinda hoping to lower my bodyfat % as well as gaining muscle) but ate a little too much (carbs probably) considering the fat on my lower abs. i'm trying to do both now since i have 6 weeks until hockey training camp where we get strength and bodyfat tested. so you guys agree that it would still be fine to take even 400 - 600 mg of caffeine a day (200mg at a time)?
thanks again!

 

[macDbol]

i agree with my glucouse intolerant friend....focus on one thing at a time, if you want to get bigger then stay away from ECA b/c it will burn the caloires that can be used to promote protein synthesis..if you think u need more muscle mass then go for it,,it will make cutting up easier in the future

 

[Par Deus]

Here is the study: Caffeine intake was 1000mg form a 220lb person -- as AD said, this is alot and may have VERY little real world significance:



J Appl Physiol 1996 Feb;80(2):452-7 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut


Caffeine counteracts the ergogenic action of muscle creatine loading.

Vandenberghe K, Gillis N, Van Leemputte M, Van Hecke P, Vanstapel F, Hespel P.

Faculty of Physical Education and Physiotherapy, Department of Kinesiology, Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, Belgium.

This study aimed to compare the effects of oral creatine (Cr) supplementation with creatine supplementation in combination with caffeine (Cr+C) on muscle phosphocreatine (PCr) level and performance in healthy male volunteers (n = 9). Before and after 6 days of placebo, Cr (0.5 g x kg-1 x day-1), or Cr (0.5 g x kg-1 x day-1) + C (5 mg x kg-1 x day-1) supplementation, 31P-nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy of the gastrocnemius muscle and a maximal intermittent exercise fatigue test of the knee extensors on an isokinetic dynamometer were performed. The exercise consisted of three consecutive maximal isometric contractions and three interval series of 90, 80, and 50 maximal voluntary contractions performed with a rest interval of 2 min between the series. Muscle ATP concentration remained constant over the three experimental conditions. Cr and Cr+C increased (P < 0.05) muscle PCr concentration by 4-6%. Dynamic torque production, however, was increased by 10-23% (P < 0.05) by Cr but was not changed by Cr+C. Torque improvement during Cr was most prominent immediately after the 2-min rest between the exercise bouts. The data show that Cr supplementation elevates muscle PCr concentration and markedly improves performance during intense intermittent exercise. This ergogenic effect, however, is completely eliminated by caffeine intake.

 

[pact]

Par Deux, i think that means that i will still get stronger and bigger muscles yet not get quicker (torque)??? i'm not too familiar the meaning of ergogenic if you could please clarify.
Thanks

 

[pact]

alright, so it looks like i'll keep trying to bulk for 2 more weeks and then cut up. but what does ergogenic mean as far as creatine use????