could running mast/proviron without test cause you to lose muscle?

[die faster]

haha. Ya dude I was pretty fuckin shredded though. In the best shape in my weight class. Just fukin tiny tho. lol I lost way too much size

as for the transformation contest, My AVI pic is one of the final pics from last years contest. I weighed 205 in my avi pic. I started the contest at about 190. So I weighed more and lost fat. But I think it was more like, I put on muscel during the oral, and THEN I started cutting bf some while the test helped me hold onto it.

Yes the diet was basically perm low carb for 3 months. I cycled my carbs for the first 8 weeks, going from a high of 150 to 50 on my low days. Than the last four weeks I was on about a cup of oatmeal/day. And just plain boiled chicken breasts. This old dude tried to help me with my diet and stuff, but I should of listened to my body. I felt like crap and kept getting weaker. They told me thats what is suppose to happen. Now I know better. At least for me. I know low carbs(at least to that extent) is unnecesary and detrimental. I will never go that low on carbs again unless its the final days to deplete before a show.

So like you were saying, it is possible to grow and lose bodyfat I guess. I did it in that contest obviously. lol But I was in a heavy calorie surplus during the oral, than brought my cals down some once I dropped that. But really, I attribute that to the oral(i blew up 28 pounds in 4 weeks) than I just kept trying to grow while watching my bf for the next 4 weeks. Than I really only counted cals and carbs the final few weeks to cut bf a bit more. I wasnt trying to come in super shredded or things would of been different.

below is a pic from that show. I dont think I need to say this. But it was a 100% natty prep. Before I used anything. Not even protein powder during the prep, strictly food. I think protein powder would of helped quite a bit

damn dude crazy pic. thats kinda the problem im going though with carbs, trying to find the sweet spot. first too low and i lost too much muscle, then too high and stopped losing fat. then days like today, i carbed up yesterday (ckd diet pretty much) and dont feel like my glycogen refilled. gonna need some more trial and error but its the learning experience that i really need. i can deff see why people just give up and bulk again lol. when you got as lean as you wanted to be, did you increase carbs? or decrease cardio?

 

[wcjcMr.O]

damn dude crazy pic. thats kinda the problem im going though with carbs, trying to find the sweet spot. first too low and i lost too much muscle, then too high and stopped losing fat. then days like today, i carbed up yesterday (ckd diet pretty much) and dont feel like my glycogen refilled. gonna need some more trial and error but its the learning experience that i really need. i can deff see why people just give up and bulk again lol. when you got as lean as you wanted to be, did you increase carbs? or decrease cardio?

well I was pretty much trying to burn fat up to the day of the contest. Another big no no. My legs tend to hold onto fat when I get pretty lean. I just kept my diet the same leading up to the show. 50grams of carbs/day. Except the night before the show I had fajitas. Than the morning the day of the show Ihad a big breakfast, sausage, frenchtoast with whip cream. The works. But it was still too late. I was so carb depleted, I should of given myself another day to try and fill out some. I was flat and tiny.

What I should of done was started upping my carbs on Thursday. After the show, I went to the buffet they had at the casino and engorged myself on everything i was craving for the last 3 months.About 2 hours later or less in the hotel room, I went to the bathroom and looked in the mirror, I WAS FUKIN HUGE. All that crap food blew me up like a balloon. I wish I could of looked like that during my show.

its all trial and error man.

 

[mammalspod]

What everyone here seems to be forgetting is that both these compounds have anti-estrogenic activity with low anabolic properties. Masteron is so anti estrogenic that it has been used to combat breast cancer. Both of these compete for aromatase activity without becoming aromatized to something which can be active at the estrogen receptor site. Talk to anyone who has taken too much AI, they will lose gains even if the are on aromatizing steroids, which you are not.

If anything drop the proviron. there is no need to add it to a masteron only cycle. the masteron at least is weakly anabolic on its own. All you are accomplishing with the proviron is lowering your estrogen below where it needs to be to maintain mass.

 

[die faster]

What everyone here seems to be forgetting is that both these compounds have anti-estrogenic activity with low anabolic properties. Masteron is so anti estrogenic that it has been used to combat breast cancer. Both of these compete for aromatase activity without becoming aromatized to something which can be active at the estrogen receptor site. Talk to anyone who has taken too much AI, they will lose gains even if the are on aromatizing steroids, which you are not.

If anything drop the proviron. there is no need to add it to a masteron only cycle. the masteron at least is weakly anabolic on its own. All you are accomplishing with the proviron is lowering your estrogen below where it needs to be to maintain mass.

this is the kind of discussion i was hoping for. well i dropped both and going into pct. but ill be on 5mg letro since im trying to kill off my gyno. so i wont be able to tell if the estro is helping me there.

so my very low level of estrogen could have been causing me to have a very hard time adding muscle and possible cause me to lose some? makes sense. it will probably be even harder from here on for the next 4-8 weeks. protein is at 400g from whole foods. lets see what happens