could running mast/proviron without test cause you to lose muscle?

[die faster]

since you would be somewhat shut down, and have all androgenic but not so much anabolic hormones? just something i was wondering.. might sound stupid. not really looking for advice, just hypothetically speaking

 

[25homes]

highly doubt it

 

[mammalspod]

Yes, both these compounds have anti-estrogen effects. Estrogen greatly contributes to tissue growth. If you put estro too far in the toilet you could lose mass. This depends on individual body chemistry. Running non-aromatizing steroids alone will also greatly affect blood lipids. Throw in at least a little test.

I'm not saying it would cause muscle loss, but it could.

 

[die faster]

Yes, both these compounds have anti-estrogen effects. Estrogen greatly contributes to tissue growth. If you put estro too far in the toilet you could lose mass. This depends on individual body chemistry. Running non-aromatizing steroids alone will also greatly affect blood lipids. Throw in at least a little test.

I'm not saying it would cause muscle loss, but it could.

thanks for the reply. im not using test because im trying to kill some gyno. but putting on muscle seems harder than it should be. i thought that since mast was 60% as anabolic as test that it wouldnt be a problem?

 

[kiai]

running proviron alone won't shut you down and it binds to SHBG so you should feel better and harder.

no idea about running masteron alone but I doubt it will cause any mass lose by itself.

 

[wcjcMr.O]

lol no. Depending on your diet I guess. But if your training hard and eating right, I dont see why you wouldnt ADD weight. If your taking ANY steroid and LOSING weight, your either cutting obviously, or something is wrong with diet and training.

 

[die faster]

this is the cycle im on now and yes kiai im looking alot better, feeling great and the definition in my legs is getting crazy

wcjc yes my man i am cutting and its going great. i have lost a little bit of muscle though. even still when i went up to 3 pounds of chicken a day. but adjusting carbs and cardio is helping somewhat.

it just got me thinking. if mainly androgenic hormones will still shut down your natural production of anabolic hormones, wouldnt you end up with alot less anabolic hormones in your body being on a mainly androgenic cycle? resulting in less anabolic benefits and possible loss in muscle mass? i dont think its something that gets discussed here often because i have hardly seen anything on people running mast/proviron only cycles

 

[wcjcMr.O]

this is the cycle im on now and yes kiai im looking alot better, feeling great and the definition in my legs is getting crazy

wcjc yes my man i am cutting and its going great. i have lost a little bit of muscle though. even still when i went up to 3 pounds of chicken a day. but adjusting carbs and cardio is helping somewhat.

it just got me thinking. if mainly androgenic hormones will still shut down your natural production of anabolic hormones, wouldnt you end up with alot less anabolic hormones in your body being on a mainly androgenic cycle? resulting in less anabolic benefits and possible loss in muscle mass? i dont think its something that gets discussed here often because i have hardly seen anything on people running mast/proviron only cycles

one thing to remember. When cutting you WILL LOSE MUSCLE!!!!!

I dont care what drugs your taking. If your body is in a calorie deficit, you will lose. Your diet will really determine this tho.

You can hold onto most of it, and it may not even seem like your losing muscle. But you cant expect to hold onto EVERY OUNCE of muscle while cutting.

That being said, im talking mainly for contest type cutting. You can lose a couple % bf while holding onto your muscle. Sure. But forget about holding it all when cutting to 3 or 4%.

ESPECIALLY when people do the # 1 rookie mistake. Alot of people think you have to do more reps with lighter weight to "get cut." But really, while cutting, lowering the weight and doing more reps is the last thing you want to do. That is the number one way to lose size when cutting. A strong muscle is a big muscle. So you gotta keep lifting heavy to tell your body to hold onto that muscle. You should really only notice a strength drop in the final weeks leading up to a show.

I did a show. Cut from to 205 to 167. I started using lighter weight and higher reps. I got small real fast. I should of came in at the top of middleweight, around 176. I was reppin out 225 before my diet. About 8 weeks into my prep, 185 was fukin HEAVY. It shouldnt be like that, but it happened because I stopped lifting heavy when in a deficit.

 

[die faster]

one thing to remember. When cutting you WILL LOSE MUSCLE!!!!!

I dont care what drugs your taking. If your body is in a calorie deficit, you will lose. Your diet will really determine this tho.

You can hold onto most of it, and it may not even seem like your losing muscle. But you cant expect to hold onto EVERY OUNCE of muscle while cutting.

That being said, im talking mainly for contest type cutting. You can lose a couple % bf while holding onto your muscle. Sure. But forget about holding it all when cutting to 3 or 4%.

ESPECIALLY when people do the # 1 rookie mistake. Alot of people think you have to do more reps with lighter weight to "get cut." But really, while cutting, lowering the weight and doing more reps is the last thing you want to do. That is the number one way to lose size when cutting. A strong muscle is a big muscle. So you gotta keep lifting heavy to tell your body to hold onto that muscle. You should really only notice a strength drop in the final weeks leading up to a show.

I did a show. Cut from to 205 to 167. I started using lighter weight and higher reps. I got small real fast. I should of came in at the top of middleweight, around 176. I was reppin out 225 before my diet. About 8 weeks into my prep, 185 was fukin HEAVY. It shouldnt be like that, but it happened because I stopped lifting heavy when in a deficit.

thanks man, this is the first real cut ive ever done and followed through with. im not really trying to rationalize me losing mass with the mast/proviron subject, it was just something i was wondering. i understand on a cut, especially this being my first time im going to lose some mass. but figured on cycle i could possibly gain at the same time, but its just mast and proviron not like im running test/tren

as far as lifting heavy, ill never give it up, i start to wither away when i back off the heavy weights just like you said. its what i live for and the strength gains from the masteron reminds me of a slow and steady version of beastdrol

but bro 167? what was your weight when you did the transformation contest i think i remember it being alot higher? and what kind of diet were you doing that caused so much muscle loss, was it a permanent low carb?

 

[wcjcMr.O]

thanks man, this is the first real cut ive ever done and followed through with. im not really trying to rationalize me losing mass with the mast/proviron subject, it was just something i was wondering. i understand on a cut, especially this being my first time im going to lose some mass. but figured on cycle i could possibly gain at the same time, but its just mast and proviron not like im running test/tren

as far as lifting heavy, ill never give it up, i start to wither away when i back off the heavy weights just like you said. its what i live for and the strength gains from the masteron reminds me of a slow and steady version of beastdrol

but bro 167? what was your weight when you did the transformation contest i think i remember it being alot higher? and what kind of diet were you doing that caused so much muscle loss, was it a permanent low carb?

haha. Ya dude I was pretty fuckin shredded though. In the best shape in my weight class. Just fukin tiny tho. lol I lost way too much size

as for the transformation contest, My AVI pic is one of the final pics from last years contest. I weighed 205 in my avi pic. I started the contest at about 190. So I weighed more and lost fat. But I think it was more like, I put on muscel during the oral, and THEN I started cutting bf some while the test helped me hold onto it.

Yes the diet was basically perm low carb for 3 months. I cycled my carbs for the first 8 weeks, going from a high of 150 to 50 on my low days. Than the last four weeks I was on about a cup of oatmeal/day. And just plain boiled chicken breasts. This old dude tried to help me with my diet and stuff, but I should of listened to my body. I felt like crap and kept getting weaker. They told me thats what is suppose to happen. Now I know better. At least for me. I know low carbs(at least to that extent) is unnecesary and detrimental. I will never go that low on carbs again unless its the final days to deplete before a show.

So like you were saying, it is possible to grow and lose bodyfat I guess. I did it in that contest obviously. lol But I was in a heavy calorie surplus during the oral, than brought my cals down some once I dropped that. But really, I attribute that to the oral(i blew up 28 pounds in 4 weeks) than I just kept trying to grow while watching my bf for the next 4 weeks. Than I really only counted cals and carbs the final few weeks to cut bf a bit more. I wasnt trying to come in super shredded or things would of been different.

below is a pic from that show. I dont think I need to say this. But it was a 100% natty prep. Before I used anything. Not even protein powder during the prep, strictly food. I think protein powder would of helped quite a bit