CNN has crossed the line into propaganda-machine

[HansNZ]

You're kidding right? Poor people in this country have free medical care. I know you are going to come back and say that's bullshit but it really isn't. Two of my friends are in the medical field and they see this shit every day. In fact, when you call the cops on a bum for pissing on your car they will bring a paramedic with them to see if he "needs some help." Illegal aliens even have free medical care in this country. That is why Kalifornia is bankrupt. The real reason the system is fucked up is because of excessive litigation. Even so, anyone with intelligence would rather have an operation in America than ANYWHERE else.

I had routine surgery for a busted jaw in the USA performed by one of Texas's "best" plastic surgeons after I was involved in a bus accident there. To cut a long story short - it was a disaster. When I got back to my inferior country of New Zealand, our inferior doctors had to reoperate to fix the mess that your superior medical practitioners caused.

 

[HansNZ]

How is our standard of living average. We own our own houses and drive giant SUV's. People in Europe live in apartments and drive scooters. Wealthy people from all over the world come to our country for school and medical care. In what way is our medical system inefficient? I get the best care in the world for 30 dollars a month. If I am an example of American arrogance, you are an example of euro ignorance. I know it's hard for former powers to look at the young upstart supercede them, but get used to it. The disparity is only going to increase.

I have told you repeatedly that I live in New Zealand. I realise that you were educated in a school system superior to everyone else's so that means that you know New Zealand is right there smack in the middle of Europe, right?

You've probably never even heard of New Zealand. Europeans know where it is and have a positive view of it - often unrealistically positive. I've never had a European tell me that my country is inferior.

As for owning your own house, the USA's rate of home ownership is lower than most of Europe. As for owning cars - the average wage in France/Germany/Scandanavia/Benelux nations/, Switzerland, etc, etc., is higher than in the USA - so europeans can afford to own cars too. They often choose not to because of good public transport and congestion problems on their roads caused by "evil" socialists and environmentalists who don't want their cities turning into a spaghetti of roads like so many US cities.

As for rates of car ownership, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, etc. have just as many cars. This of course is a bad thing because cars are the leading emittors of greenhouse gasses - but of course Republicans deny that global warming even exists!

I don't see Europeans rushing to the USA for medical care. As for people in third world countries, I think this is more the exception than the rule. The cost of medical treatment in the USA is too high. What you are thinking of is probably specialist treatment.

But we have people coming to NZ for specialist treatment too. If something is a medical niche then obviously it may be available in only one country where it was pioneered. People come to NZ because it is a world leader in asthma treatments. People go to Spain because it is a world leader in certain types of eye surgery, and so on.

As for the USA "superceding" everyone, the USA has been losing ground for 60 years now. Americans are like the Chinese used to be. They were so convinced that they were the central kingdom around which the whole world revolved that by the time they woke up they found that they'd been left in the dust.

As for "Euro" arrogance - this is nothing in comparison to that encountered in the USA. When I went to the USA people implied constantly that the USA must be better. People questioned whether I would try and stay and work illegally. The idea that I was more than happy to go home to my own country came as a shock. The news that NZ has lots of Americans who choose to live in my "inferior" country was even more of a shock to them. It was even suggested to me that they must have done this because they are hippies!

We have huge numbers of Americans here who like the place well enough to call it home. My best friend here is a scientist from California. My thesis advisor is from LA. He went back there a few months ago but can't wait to leave again. He says the fakeness of people in LA drives him crazy. My God mother is from Ohio. She married a NZer and has lived here for 35 years. These Americans all have the choice to live in the USA, but they choose to stay here, so it can't be so bad.

In Europe I experience the opposite of what I encountered in the USA. People know about New Zealand, and have a very positive attitude towards it. Norway is richer than the USA, and is as close to an straight A+ student as you can get in terms of is social statistics and general standard of living. I don't hear them saying that "everyone wants to be a Norwegian" or "we are the best, we are the greatest". That is the sort of arrogance you from the USA constantly.

 

[HansNZ]

So there are no scubag homeless in europe? no teenage pregnancies in europe?

yes there are, but there are far more in the USA.

 

[HansNZ]

You are truly joking right? Tell us where the government gets it's money to pay for this medical care. Are they opening up the printing press and giving out cash? Do you not understand that for government to hand out money it must TAKE that money from working individuals?

This is a false argument consistently pedalled by Americans. What you CONSISTENTLY fail to hear, although it is told to you so often is that your private system is incredibly inefficient.

The US taxpayer spends more on healthcare than taxpayers in my country do. Yet we have free universal healthcare and you don't. In the US this tax money only covers a little over a third of healthcare costs - the rest is paid for by people taking out unbelievably expensive private medical insurance.

A friend of mine in Florida spends $3,000 a year on his medical insurance - for a healthy man in his early thirties! This is ridiculous when you compare it to the average full time wage in the USA of $32,273 a year. It escapes me how anyone can afford to get sick in that country. What's more 70% of full-time american workers earn less than $25,000 a year and the average family income is somewhere around the $50,000 mark. My friend is a high earner so maybe he has a super luxurious medical plan. But even so it does make you wonder what sort of healthcare a family of four can people afford at those prices.

State run systems are VASTLY more efficient than private systems that result in runaway costs. The USA spends more than US$5,000 on every man woman and child! This is absolutely absurd. You, my American friend, spend more of your taxes on healthcare than I do. And if you are like most Americans, on top of that you probably have to take out private insurance.

For ideological reasons and because of the power of medical lobbies you have a healthcare system that is a complete disaster. You are more than welcome to your "superior" medical system.

Then they are truly the laziest individuals on earth. Every city has some sort of shelter for homeless and hungry. Are we to go out searching for these individuals and round them up to house and feed them?[/B]

Homelessness is rarely caused by anything as convenient as laziness. It is usually a symptom of something such as mental illness, drug addiction, etc.

Do you live in the real world? Do you think that Utopia exists? That there is a place where death, hunger and disease are non-existant? This is the fallacy of socialism, that somehow taking money from one person to give to another will cure the ills of the world. That disparity causes suffering.[/B]

European style socialism, i.e. social democracy, makes no claims to solve these problems. What it says is that a capitalist system aggravates them. Socialism aims to provide people with an equal playing field from which they make of their own life what they will. There is no assumption that everyone will be equal.

The idea that socialism wants to force everyone to be equal by running down run down or penalising people who achieve is largely propaganda.

And we give billions to all of the programs above. Government is not cutting social spending to give money to another country. [/B]

The USA isn't currently cutting aid programmes because it isn't living up to its international obligations. It is undercontributing aid relative to other developed countries. On top of that, the aid it does give goes predominantly to a handful of countries such as Israel for less than humanitarian purposes.

By watching the news in the USA you'd swear that the USA bankrupts itself by giving out aid. In proportion to GDP the USA is one of the stingiest countries in the world. It is only the overall size of the US economy which makes the US's aid programme look respectable. You 'd swear that everyone in the world gets by because the USA gives them a handout. I notice that even Turkey is being presented this way in the US media. This is despite the fact that the costs to it of an American war against Iraq are likely to far exceed the $26 billion being offered.

 

[Norman Bates]

I notice that even Turkey is being presented this way in the US media. This is despite the fact that the costs to it of an American war against Iraq are likely to far exceed the $26 billion being offered.

It must suck to be a Turkish politician right now.
On the one hand , 90% of the population are opposed to the war and they want to join the EU with France, Germany, Austria and some other countries opposed to the war.
On the other hand, they are financially dependant on the US.
That´s a really tough decision.

 

[musclebrains]

Props to you, Hans, for bringing statistical evidence to your arguments. The myths that the US is so generous in humanitarian aid and that our medical system is the world's best are particularly galling.

 

[Frackal]

What is new zealand like enviromental-wise hanz?

 

[minion]

Hanz you have some great points. Not entirely accurate for too many reasons to list right now. (no time) Never the less accuracy issue aside they're still valid points that should taken into study by my home country.

 

[musclebrains]

Hanz you have some great points. Not entirely accurate for too many reasons to list right now. (no time) Never the less accuracy issue aside they're still valid points that should taken into study by my home country.

How about demonstrating one point that's inaccurate.

 

[HansNZ]

Hanz you have some great points. Not entirely accurate for too many reasons to list right now. (no time) Never the less accuracy issue aside they're still valid points that should taken into study by my home country.

The thing is that I meet plenty of Americans who know all this already. But sadly there seems to be a monolithic mass of Americans programmed with all these wierd attitudes.

I'll often be watching a US movie or TV programme with my friend from California. He regularly flinches with embarrassment when he hears Americans parrot the wierd ideas that I have mentioned.