Chest & Shoulders Together/ Not Smart!!!!!

[punch]

Let me first start by saying that I am NOT an advocate of doing pushing and pulling movements together. That being said, Chest together w/ shoulders has to be one of the worst ideas around. I am speaking from experience of course. The other day as an experiment, my partner and I tried this workout and i was horrible. We started with chest first then shoulders. When it came time to do shoulder presses I could only do 1/2 the weight I normally could doing shoulders alone. Why do this? Why would anyone who is trying to gain muscle have one of their bodyparts suffer at the expense of another? In this sport that is very counterproductive. ALL MAJOR BODY PARTS SHOULD BE DONE BY THEMSELVES. If a smaller bodypart is added like tris/bis to a back or chest workout thats fine, but not two biggies together.

I consistantly see workouts posted on here where Chest/shoulders/tris are done in the same day. Does this make sense? I answer NO. In fact, in any application this workout does NOT seem like an ideal way to grow. For all the newbies on this board, my advice is to stick with working major bodyparts alone, period. Not only from a physical point of view, but mentally you will grow much faster and stronger.

 

[endpoint]

Wouldnt it be just like pre exhaustion?.
Your tris would be buggered from the chest so when you get to your shoulders....the shoulders will have to do more work because of the dead tris.


What about something like this.work the chest with bench flat/incline, flyes....then only do lateral raises and front raises for the sholders.

to me that works fine.....but the only problem is that you have done no pressing for sholders....which to me is essential.

Personally shoulders are done on a separate day to the chest.

but the problem is your front deltoid is worked twice a week(1 with bench press 2 with shoulder press)......which doenst seem to be hampering my progress

I think people new to lifting should stick with the upperbody/lower body work outs......then move onto the major body parts with time
but thats just my personal opinion.

I agree that working one major bodypart is benifical mentally.
After a work out...you can look back knowing you worked the muscle to its fullest and not be worried that the weights you were lifting had been hampered by the other body part that day.

 

[Tuna Guy]

why not do shoulders before chest if having a good shoulder press is so important or just stick some lateral raises both standing and bent over onto the end of your chest workout. I dont do it personally but i quite like the idea of chest and shoulders together.

 

[punch]

To get big shoulders you need to do heavy shoulder presses. Benching during chest will not sufficiently work your delts. Laterals may create a broader appearance if someone is facing you but once you move to the side youll fade like the sun at sunset. It is for this reason that shoulders and chest together are like oil & water, THEY DONT MIX!!!!!

 

[Tuna Guy]

Why do you have to do heavy shoulder presses to get big shoulders?

 

[punch]

Shoulder presses add girth to the delt area. Additionally it is a compound movement which has shaped some of the biggest shoulders in the bodybuilding industry. I would be suprised if you could show me any pro bodybuilder who built huge shoulders WITHOUT the use of shoulder presses. Also the benefits of shoulder presses filter down into your bench by strengthening and utilizing similar stabilizer muscles.

 

[the-juggernaut]

presses..

shoulder presses hit front delts too much for me,,i like the upright rows better that hits the whole delts traps and biceps,,much better excerse.....

 

[bignate73]

haha. i know many bodybuilders that do their whole upper body on one day. thats right. whole thing.

1 bodypart a day is alright for some, especially an intermediate, but once someone knows what works for them...the volume required is reduced.

even big/small days are too much because people have a tendency to do more than is required.

once someone learns what works for them, they can hit a large bodypart in 6-8 sets easily.

just a thought. a 5 day routine is not superior or even ideal. time spent outside the gym is growth time. if you can stimulate enough in less time, you have more time to recover.

 

[punch]

Are we talking natural or on the sauce. If it is the latter I agree that you could hit upperbody all in one day, maybe. Natural however, no way. I have been natural for over 11 years and lift heavy for not being on AS and I have never been able to do all upper body in one day without another suffering. I agree that time out of the gym is recovery time thats why I hit each bodypart once every seven days, but make no mistake, the way I hit each bodypart I need that entire week to recupe, LOL.

 

[GenetiKing]

I agree. I'm not a big advocate of that workout either. Anatomically, the shoulder/chest workout makes sense. Functionally, however, it's a disaster... for me at least.

 

[MaGilicuti]

i agree, i try to do one body part a workout and that's it. one person's workout won't be quite as good for another person though. if people like doing that i guess let them. i'd like to see their results. anyone that is defending this, can you post some before and after stats?

 

[wanderlust]

I just want to say, I do chest+tris one day, and I spend an entire workout on shoulders and lower back.

 

[Valdez]

Let me first start by saying that I am NOT an advocate of doing pushing and pulling movements together. That being said, Chest together w/ shoulders has to be one of the worst ideas around. I am speaking from experience of course. The other day as an experiment, my partner and I tried this workout and i was horrible. We started with chest first then shoulders. When it came time to do shoulder presses I could only do 1/2 the weight I normally could doing shoulders alone. Why do this? Why would anyone who is trying to gain muscle have one of their bodyparts suffer at the expense of another? In this sport that is very counterproductive. ALL MAJOR BODY PARTS SHOULD BE DONE BY THEMSELVES. If a smaller bodypart is added like tris/bis to a back or chest workout thats fine, but not two biggies together.

I consistantly see workouts posted on here where Chest/shoulders/tris are done in the same day. Does this make sense? I answer NO. In fact, in any application this workout does NOT seem like an ideal way to grow. For all the newbies on this board, my advice is to stick with working major bodyparts alone, period. Not only from a physical point of view, but mentally you will grow much faster and stronger.

I appreciate your opinion but quite frankly you are wrong. In addition shoulders are not a "major" muscle group. When I do back and biceps on the same day do I use the same weight as I would when I do biceps by themselves, heck no! If this post is directed at me you can forget about it, cause it's been working great for me. Bench press/Barbell and dumbell, and INCLINE! is a very potent front delt exercise all you really have to do is do side movements and your done!

I very much disagree with your post brotha. Some guy said isn't it like a pre-fatique? yes it is exactly that. Obviously I cannot nor will I even try to convince you that it is a very productive workout, and really I could give a damn (no attitude in that statement ). I will happily continue to grow doing what I like to do and you can happily continue to grow doing what you like to do. I do challenge you though to focus very much on strict side laterals and some machine movements (all side) and most of all DROP THE EGO WHEN DOING SHOULDER PRESS, and see if you are sore the next day.

peace.

 

[Valdez]

I thought I'd post my chest/shoulder/tri routine.

(only failure sets indicated)
chest
Bench press (incline or flat) 2x
10 degree decline DB press 2x
incline DB hybrid's (cross between flye and press) 3x
cable flye's (low pulley, seated on incline bench) 3x

stretch, then shoulders
dumbell overhead press 1-2x
standing side laterals (DB's all with drop sets) 2x
machine side laterals (last set is quadruple drop set) 2x

stretch, then tris
dumbell or cambered bar overhead extension 2x
cable pushdowns 2x
1 arm reverse grip cable pushdowns 2x

done.


this routine gives me equal soreness in all muscle groups worked.

 

[punch]

I will end this discussion by saying this. In all the years I have been training, I have never adhered to a push/push, pull/pull routine. I have though tried a shoulder/chest workout in the past and for me it SUCKED!! My shoulders are one of my best bodyparts and I have grown them using a heavy compound movement called SHOULDER PRESSES. To say shoulders are not a major muscle group is like saying legs/chest and back are not major muscle groups. I completely disagree with you on that.

MAJOR MUSCLE GROUPS: CHEST/LEGS/BACK/SHOULDERS
SMALL MUSCLE GROUP: BICEPS/TRICEPS/CALVES/FOREARMS

Also, when benching, whether incline or flat you are hitting primarily front delts, which represent only one facet of your entire shoulder girdle. I agree that there is no need to perform front raises with shoulder, however, how can your shoulders gain thickness without direct recruitment of the entire area with a heavy compound movement. Just like back, to work the entire area you need a combination of heavy compound movements with isolation excersizes. Therefore it is essential to have 3 or 4 movements to cover the area. Same applies to shoulders.

SHOULDER PRESSES: Compound movement that hits entire shoulder region!
SIDE LATERALS: Isolation movement which hits side shoulder caps
BENT OVER LATERALS: Isolation movement which hits rear delts( Absolutely essential for developing a 3 dimensional look when viewed from the side and back).
FRONT RAISES: Only necessary if lacking, benching hits this area substantially.

These are the movements I do on every shoulder workout except for front raises which I replace with dumbell shrugs. I do shrugs twice per week very heavy with a trap bar on back day. It is IMPOSSIBLE for me to hit chest after this workout, but, of course to each is own.

 

[Tuna Guy]

You should differenciate between shoulders and delts.

 

[BigDogg]

Damn that sucks... I Knew I was doing something wrong guess i gotta change my workout

monday: chest,shoulders, back, biceps,legs
tuesday: off
wednesday: Triceps
thursday: off

 

[GenetiKing]

Damn that sucks... I Knew I was doing something wrong guess i gotta change my workout

monday: chest,shoulders, back, biceps,legs
tuesday: off
wednesday: Triceps
thursday: off

LOL!!!!

 

[musc]

I have tried the 5 days one bodypart, it did not worked for me. I am now doing a 10 weeks on 2 weeks off full body split 2 times a week and went from 165 lbs to 207 lbs in 3, 10 weeks program ( 7 mths, ). I am doing the Peary Rader Routine and the only supplement I'm taking Whey/ soy and milk proteins. They work wonders just like mothers milk on a baby. When I hit a plateau I will change to a 3 Day (chest/ back) ( Legs/shoul) Bi's/ tri's).

I eat about 3000 to 3600 calories Mon to Fri with a 50- 30- 20 carb, pro, fat.

6 ft, 207 lbs, 49 in chest, 35in waist, 26 1/2in thights and 17 3/4 biceps.

If it works don't change it until it stops working.

Good luck to all.

Musc Me

 

[joe d]

Let me first start by saying that I am NOT an advocate of doing pushing and pulling movements together. That being said, Chest together w/ shoulders has to be one of the worst ideas around. I am speaking from experience of course. The other day as an experiment, my partner and I tried this workout and i was horrible. We started with chest first then shoulders. When it came time to do shoulder presses I could only do 1/2 the weight I normally could doing shoulders alone. Why do this? Why would anyone who is trying to gain muscle have one of their bodyparts suffer at the expense of another? In this sport that is very counterproductive. ALL MAJOR BODY PARTS SHOULD BE DONE BY THEMSELVES. If a smaller bodypart is added like tris/bis to a back or chest workout thats fine, but not two biggies together.

I consistantly see workouts posted on here where Chest/shoulders/tris are done in the same day. Does this make sense? I answer NO. In fact, in any application this workout does NOT seem like an ideal way to grow. For all the newbies on this board, my advice is to stick with working major bodyparts alone, period. Not only from a physical point of view, but mentally you will grow much faster and stronger.

chest shoulders and tris. throw in some back and you have dogcrapp day 1. the most bad ass fucking program out there for me while im on cycle. i can work the shit out of every body part 2 times in 8 days thaining only 30-45 mins 3 times per wk. and grow better than any other program i have tried has done for me.

 

[Blane]

The longer i wokout. it seems more clear to me there are only a few exercises needed. Squat, DL, Pedelay rows, Bench, standing overhead press, dips, i still hvnt been able to lose the bicurl and tri assistance work..

Shoulders/chest same day...absolutly. flat bench, standing overhead barbell press. IMO the side lateral raises and front raises are not to build size...They are more like physical therapy. really really light .....i dont do them any more..i think they are useless for building size. they do however allow us to look cool in the mirror as we are doing them....the chicks understand them...lol

 

[PWR]

Over the years I have seperated shoulders as far away from chest as possible. It has worked fairly well for me as I have decent size in my shoulders. I normally do chest on Monday and shoulders on Thursday or Friday. But..... I do feel like I could do shoulders the same day and it may be a better idea for me. You do not need heavy shoulder presses for big shoulders. I think you do need heavy inclines presses though. So for me I could go stright over to light side laterals after my incline presses, and finish with a rear delt fly machine. This is actually a pretty good idea and both shoulders and chest would be very fresh for the following week.

My shoulders are still fatigued today and chest day is tommorrow. I will skip shoulders next week and try this out.

I havent done heavy shoulder presses in a long time because of rotator cuff problems. Normally I will do a few sets of db shoulder presses with 50's for 25 reps each, then a few sets of light bent over side laterals and a few sets of rear flys.

 

[FunFun]

I'm not recommending this as a way to train, but it was interesting.

One day I decided to try some flat BB bench presses straight after I'd fatigued my shoulders on a regular shoulder day. I was surprised how much stimulus I felt in the pecs compared to my chest day bench presses. It felt that all the stress was focused in the pecs.

I continue to do this from time to time. You won't be using a lot of weight (compared to what you use on bench press days) but it feels good.

 

[artificialaspirations]

Delts are not a major muscle group. I work em w/ chest since their being stimulated anyway.