chemical wizardry, building the beast, cycle help

[shamrock11]

In my opinion short cycles are useless. As a rule medications in youre system don't get to theraputiv levels until the 5th half life. This is also the point at which you have been taking the medication for a while and the blood levels are also starting to stablize and becoem more even. You'll just be getting your blood levels even when you quit. You'll still have plenty of grow left to do from the cycle.

 

[LT3]

i dont know man, like one bro said, you can argue both sides of it, so...

 

[Makavelli]

Rea's ideas are faulty.

Proof: Everything he says is based on the idea that anabolic use, by pushing the body to extremes of growth, creates a chemical backlash of estrogen and cortisol. He emphasizes that this happens with use in 2-3 weeks. He also states that the rising estrogen is due to the body's attempt to return to homeostasis, to cause HTPA suppression, and that any anabolic will do this.

Therefore, Mr. Rea's book is based on the above argument. This argument has two checkable facts:

1)Use of any anabolic steroid for more than 3 weeks will cause a significant increase in cortisol.

False.Acta Endocrinol (Copenh). 1982 Sep;101(1):108-12. Showed in men being given prolonged dose of nandrolone decanoate (Deca) no significant increase whatsoever in cortisol.

2)Use of any anabolic will create a rise in estrogen.

FalseMethenolone enanthate (Primo) when used in several groups showed no significant increase in estrogen.

The deca study above did show an increase in estrogen, but because deca aromitizes.

Use of non-aromitizing anabolics does not cause any increase in cortisol or estrogen of significance. Therefore, no cortisol-estrogen suppression phase, and no 4 week cycles are necessary or logical.

Use of aromitizing anabolics does not cause an increase in cortisol. The estrogen increase actually causes more growth, and should only be inhibited to the degree the individual is sensitive to estrogen.

Lastly, even if an anabolic binding to the anabolic receptor did cause an increase in estrogen and cortisol after two weeks, switching anabolics every 10 days as Rea does would not fix this, since all anabolics, even orals like dbol and winny, actually activate the anabolic receptor in modern research. But switching to a different injectable every 10 days, as Rea does, makes no sense even without this brand-new knowledge.

Rea's ideas are disproven. Basically, he would get ten vials of whatever in mexico and do them one a day until he got something else. He ate and he grew, and maybe he mistook success for science.

I would really like to hear ideas and proofs contrary to mine. I found Rea's work to be fascinating and thought-provoking, at least.

Exactly. Plus the fact that AAS have been shown to block the cortisol recpetor, who gives a fuck if they are high? That's an issue when you come off, but not on. Adaptation is what you want to happen. If you did not adapt you would not grow any muscle. It's simple: You stress your muscles and they adapt by growing bigger and stronger. With elevated hormones you will grow faster. You will continue to grow until the amount of recpetors exceeds the amount of hormones in the blood. In order to continue growing at this point, one needs to raise the level of hormones. If this was not the case when one added additional AAS after 10-16 weeks, nothing would happen. But obviously something does happen. That something is additional muscle size.

 

[LT3]

so what you guys are saying is that rea is full of it? personally i dont know what to think.

 

[Makavelli]

Rhea is a very intelligent person. He just makes things too complicated and doesn't look at empirical data. He derives theories out of logic from text books, not what happens in the real world. He should be using logic by applying it to real world results. I respect him, but don't agree with many of his theories.

 

[LT3]

Rhea is a very intelligent person. He just makes things too complicated and doesn't look at empirical data. He derives theories out of logic from text books, not what happens in the real world. He should be using logic by applying it to real world results. I respect him, but don't agree with many of his theories.

fair enough. i guess the major agreement is that you guys dont agree, but respect him. which i understand. sorry if i sound like an instigator lol, but i like these debates.

 

[shamrock11]

Rhea is a very intelligent person. He just makes things too complicated and doesn't look at empirical data. He derives theories out of logic from text books, not what happens in the real world. He should be using logic by applying it to real world results. I respect him, but don't agree with many of his theories.

I agree. Too many people get caught up in text books and try to apply what they have read and apply it to what we do here and some of it works and some of it doesn't. The problems come when some people over analize it and read way too far into something that is simpler than they make it out to be.

 

[lardo5150]

I agree. Too many people get caught up in text books and try to apply what they have read and apply it to what we do here and some of it works and some of it doesn't. The problems come when some people over analize it and read way too far into something that is simpler than they make it out to be.

I am in agreement here. I feel Rhea is intelligiant but makes it to complicated to read, especially for people like me who basically have ADD.

Here is the thing, before I read these ebooks, I always thought that the standard was between 10-12 weeks. Now, this HAS to work otherwise we would not have some of the champs we have today.

So, if ANYONE has tried these short cycles, please put in some imput. How did it work? Did it work? How is it compared to the "standard" length.

Man, great thread.

 

[lardo5150]

bumping

 

[easy]

I beleive rea's ideas work......for him. He's pretty big but everyone is different. If we could all do the same cycles and get the same results then there would only need to be ONE DEFINITIVE book. Some folks grow with short cycles of prop and tren... Some folks grow on year round cycles of test and deca. Only way to know what will work for an individual is trail and error. .