chemical wizardry, building the beast, cycle help

[lardo5150]

an old prof of mine told me a lot of bbers and football players used to do this kind of thing. 4weeks on 4 weeks off. no pct. he also mentioned other guys that used to use this stuff like there was no tomorrow. but when im on, i dont notice the effect till 3rd week. and what if you're using deca, enth, etc? would you even feel the effects.

EXACTLY!!, great point. I was always told that most results are not noticeable till the 5 or 6 week. So it is defeating the purpose.

good thread, lets keep this going.

 

[LT3]

EXACTLY!!, great point. I was always told that most results are not noticeable till the 5 or 6 week. So it is defeating the purpose.

good thread, lets keep this going.

lol. ye bump for more opinions. i mean when i first read this i thought "this is whack, does he mean 30 weeks as opposed to 30 days?" i mean we're talking about author rhea here, he wouldnt write some stuff that makes no sense. also we've seen guys he's worked with. so...i dont know, i want to say that cycle is garbage, but comes from a credible man.

 

[majutsu]

Rea's ideas are faulty.

Proof: Everything he says is based on the idea that anabolic use, by pushing the body to extremes of growth, creates a chemical backlash of estrogen and cortisol. He emphasizes that this happens with use in 2-3 weeks. He also states that the rising estrogen is due to the body's attempt to return to homeostasis, to cause HTPA suppression, and that any anabolic will do this.

Therefore, Mr. Rea's book is based on the above argument. This argument has two checkable facts:

1)Use of any anabolic steroid for more than 3 weeks will cause a significant increase in cortisol.

False.Acta Endocrinol (Copenh). 1982 Sep;101(1):108-12. Showed in men being given prolonged dose of nandrolone decanoate (Deca) no significant increase whatsoever in cortisol.

2)Use of any anabolic will create a rise in estrogen.

FalseMethenolone enanthate (Primo) when used in several groups showed no significant increase in estrogen.

The deca study above did show an increase in estrogen, but because deca aromitizes.

Use of non-aromitizing anabolics does not cause any increase in cortisol or estrogen of significance. Therefore, no cortisol-estrogen suppression phase, and no 4 week cycles are necessary or logical.

Use of aromitizing anabolics does not cause an increase in cortisol. The estrogen increase actually causes more growth, and should only be inhibited to the degree the individual is sensitive to estrogen.

Lastly, even if an anabolic binding to the anabolic receptor did cause an increase in estrogen and cortisol after two weeks, switching anabolics every 10 days as Rea does would not fix this, since all anabolics, even orals like dbol and winny, actually activate the anabolic receptor in modern research. But switching to a different injectable every 10 days, as Rea does, makes no sense even without this brand-new knowledge.

Rea's ideas are disproven. Basically, he would get ten vials of whatever in mexico and do them one a day until he got something else. He ate and he grew, and maybe he mistook success for science.

I would really like to hear ideas and proofs contrary to mine. I found Rea's work to be fascinating and thought-provoking, at least.

 

[perp69]

I made a post a few days ago asking if anyone had tried his cycles but got no response. So I assume no one has. The proof is in the pudding I think. Everyone once thought the Earth was flat also. You can find arguements on both sides of the isle to support any theory. Does it actually work is the question? If it does work, then I would think the shorter cycles would be much better than the longer ones just from a health stand point. The only way to know will be to try it I quess. Then you will have your answer unless someone that has actually done the cycles can chime in.

 

[raptor420]

I made a post a few days ago asking if anyone had tried his cycles but got no response. So I assume no one has. The proof is in the pudding I think. Everyone once thought the Earth was flat also. You can find arguements on both sides of the isle to support any theory. Does it actually work is the question? If it does work, then I would think the shorter cycles would be much better than the longer ones just from a health stand point. The only way to know will be to try it I quess. Then you will have your answer unless someone that has actually done the cycles can chime in.

I'm on one of his cycles right now. It seems to be working good for me.

 

[pda321]

Rea's ideas are faulty.

Proof: Everything he says is based on the idea that anabolic use, by pushing the body to extremes of growth, creates a chemical backlash of estrogen and cortisol. He emphasizes that this happens with use in 2-3 weeks. He also states that the rising estrogen is due to the body's attempt to return to homeostasis, to cause HTPA suppression, and that any anabolic will do this.

Therefore, Mr. Rea's book is based on the above argument. This argument has two checkable facts:

1)Use of any anabolic steroid for more than 3 weeks will cause a significant increase in cortisol.

False.Acta Endocrinol (Copenh). 1982 Sep;101(1):108-12. Showed in men being given prolonged dose of nandrolone decanoate (Deca) no significant increase whatsoever in cortisol.

2)Use of any anabolic will create a rise in estrogen.

FalseMethenolone enanthate (Primo) when used in several groups showed no significant increase in estrogen.

The deca study above did show an increase in estrogen, but because deca aromitizes.

Use of non-aromitizing anabolics does not cause any increase in cortisol or estrogen of significance. Therefore, no cortisol-estrogen suppression phase, and no 4 week cycles are necessary or logical.

Use of aromitizing anabolics does not cause an increase in cortisol. The estrogen increase actually causes more growth, and should only be inhibited to the degree the individual is sensitive to estrogen.

Lastly, even if an anabolic binding to the anabolic receptor did cause an increase in estrogen and cortisol after two weeks, switching anabolics every 10 days as Rea does would not fix this, since all anabolics, even orals like dbol and winny, actually activate the anabolic receptor in modern research. But switching to a different injectable every 10 days, as Rea does, makes no sense even without this brand-new knowledge.

Rea's ideas are disproven. Basically, he would get ten vials of whatever in mexico and do them one a day until he got something else. He ate and he grew, and maybe he mistook success for science.

I would really like to hear ideas and proofs contrary to mine. I found Rea's work to be fascinating and thought-provoking, at least.

You're so money and you don't even know it!

 

[perp69]

I'm on one of his cycles right now. It seems to be working good for me.

Glad to hear it. I am thinking about going that route so it is good to hear that it works.

 

[maldorf]

EXACTLY!!, great point. I was always told that most results are not noticeable till the 5 or 6 week. So it is defeating the purpose.

good thread, lets keep this going.

Only thing is you are still feeling the effects for 2 weeks or so after you quit the cycle if the esters were slow acting like test cyp. So you would still get in a good 6 weeks.

 

[njmuscleguy]

I'm on my second cycle so far, both have been deca & test e... 1st cycle I only gained about 7-8 pounds... bridged up and down (a waste of time for me, I think) and lost most of it.... this time around, I've learned alot and have gained 10 pounds into my 4th week (no bridging).... I'm floored when I hear guys gaining 10 pounds in the first week of a cycle and up to 25-30 pounds total in a cycle.... that'd never happen for me (I think) *grin*

 

[LT3]

Only thing is you are still feeling the effects for 2 weeks or so after you quit the cycle if the esters were slow acting like test cyp. So you would still get in a good 6 weeks.

but blood levels are still not steady.

2)Use of any anabolic will create a rise in estrogen.

FalseMethenolone enanthate (Primo) when used in several groups showed no significant increase in estrogen.

how is that false, of course it will give a rise in estrogen. primo wont convert as much as other aas, but it still will. also this study doesnt say how much primo was used per week and how long it was used for, thus results vary. i think rea is a very credible man when it comes to this stuff, or else he wouldnt be where he is now.