"BRIDGING" -- Done Right

[Nelson Montana]

Calling it bridging or cruising or pacing or coasting...they're all excuses not to come off steroids. But your body doesn't care that you have a cool name for it, or that some internet guru devised a plan for it. If you're on, even a little bit, you're on. And you're not recovering.

In fact, staying on a low dose anabolic is the STUPIDEST thing you can do! The dosge will be too low to offer any anabolic effect but will still continue to suppress. You not only never get to recover but you're more likely to do more damage since the system hasn't been able to function for too long. Add to the mix, the fact that the body builds up a tolerance to any substance. You can talk all day about receptor acceptance being a myth -- more denial. The more you do, the more you need. This is why first timers can gain 20 pounds but the guy who's been at this a while need bigger dosages of stronger compounds to gain half as much.

I'll be honest. If you want to stay on full time -- then stay on. Full dosage. Don't kid yourself that you're giving your body a break because the reality of the situation is something altogether different. In order for the HPTA to recover, so that you may function and keep your gains post cycle, you must allow your body to take over on its own.

This is another reason you shouldn't depend too much on drugs. HMG, HCG and the like, give the recovery process a head start. But if you stay on for too long, you just become reliant on the recovery drug! Then you're back to square one.

The best way to bridge is to use proper PCT. I recommend HMG over HCG, but HCG is better than nothing. Then I recomend getting SHBG as low as possible. You can do that with Proviron (another drug) or UNLEASHED. (The logical alternative).

Liver detox and estrogen management is imperative, which is why I recommened PP's Alpha Sustain, protein factory's POST CYCLE and Liv 42. (And even if you stubbornly think orals aren't that toxic, the liver still works better when it isn't encumbered).

That's the FIRST step. Then you have to maintain muscle.

There are a few things you can do about this.

Sure, creatine and quality protein, blah, blah, blah, we all know that. And I've touted the superiority of BIG BLAST enough times for everyone to know that it too can help. Just ask anyone who's used it. But there are other nutrients and such that will help with anti catabolism, testosterone production, blood quality, nerve function and essentially dozens of other factors that contribute to maintaining muscle.

There are a lot of things available (and some not so well known) that can help in this area. I spoke to needto about this and he loved the idea and threw in some suggestions of his own but after all was said and done we both realized it just might be too costly to put together. Then he got to work on it. (The man never stops -- seriously!)

Anyway, it looks like we might be able to put something together that would be every bit as good as we thought, and for a lot less than we anticipated.

So...? I ask the question of the board. Is a natural product meant to be taken "in-between" cycles a little too weird? Personally, I think it's a great idea. But this wouldn't be for the GNC crowd. They'll be no promises of "massive gains" or MIND BLOWING PUMPS!!!" No endorsments from 350 pound freaks claiming it's what got them to the Olympia. It'll just be a good insurance supplement that'll help maintain muscle gained from one cycle to the next.

Let's have your thoughts. And all feedback is welcome.

 

[dabuffguy]

Bridging = teh suck

If you want to stay on, stay on all the way. If not, do PCT and be done with it.

 

[joe d]

Calling it bridging or cruising or pacing or coasting...they're all excuses not to come off steroids. But your body doesn't care that you have a cool name for it, or that some internet guru devised a plan for it. If you're on, even a little bit, you're on. And you're not recovering.

In fact, staying on a low dose anabolic is the STUPIDEST thing you can do! The dosge will be too low to offer any anabolic effect but will still continue to suppress. You not only never get to recover but you're more likely to do more damage since the system hasn't been able to function for too long. Add to the mix, the fact that the body builds up a tolerance to any substance. You can talk all day about receptor acceptance being a myth -- more denial. The more you do, the more you need. This is why first timers can gain 20 pounds but the guy who's been at this a while need bigger dosages of stronger compounds to gain half as much.

I'll be honest. If you want to stay on full time -- then stay on. Full dosage. Don't kid yourself that you're giving your body a break because the reality of the situation is something altogether different. In order for the HPTA to recover, so that you may function and keep your gains post cycle, you must allow your body to take over on its own.

This is another reason you shouldn't depend too much on drugs. HMG, HCG and the like, give the recovery process a head start. But if you stay on for too long, you just become reliant on the recovery drug! Then you're back to square one.

The best way to bridge is to use proper PCT. I recommend HMG over HCG, but HCG is better than nothing. Then I recomend getting SHBG as low as possible. You can do that with Proviron (another drug) or UNLEASHED. (The logical alternative).

Liver detox and estrogen management is imperative, which is why I recommened PP's Alpha Sustain, protein factory's POST CYCLE and Liv 42. (And even if you stubbornly think orals aren't that toxic, the liver still works better when it isn't encumbered).

That's the FIRST step. Then you have to maintain muscle.

There are a few things you can do about this.

Sure, creatine and quality protein, blah, blah, blah, we all know that. And I've touted the superiority of BIG BLAST enough times for everyone to know that it too can help. Just ask anyone who's used it. But there are other nutrients and such that will help with anti catabolism, testosterone production, blood quality, nerve function and essentially dozens of other factors that contribute to maintaining muscle.

There are a lot of things available (and some not so well known) that can help in this area. I spoke to needto about this and he loved the idea and threw in some suggestions of his own but after all was said and done we both realized it just might be too costly to put together. Then he got to work on it. (The man never stops -- seriously!)

Anyway, it looks like we might be able to put something together that would be every bit as good as we thought, and for a lot less than we anticipated.

So...? I ask the question of the board. Is a natural product meant to be taken "in-between" cycles a little too weird? Personally, I think it's a great idea. But this wouldn't be for the GNC crowd. They'll be no promises of "massive gains" or MIND BLOWING PUMPS!!!" No endorsments from 350 pound freaks claiming it's what got them to the Olympia. It'll just be a good insurance supplement that'll help maintain muscle gained from one cycle to the next.

Let's have your thoughts. And all feedback is welcome.

nelson if you stay on a full cycle dose all the time you will die before to long. your blood levels are all screwed up and will gradually get worst. if you lower the dose down to 100mg ew for the same duration of time (maybe longer or shorter for some) you can get your blood levels back to normal and start over again. so the difference between bridging and staying on a full cycle could be considered life and death. im not arguing the other points you made just this one.

 

[KeepinMyGains]

The more you do, the more you need. This is why first timers can gain 20 pounds but the guy who's been at this a while need bigger dosages of stronger compounds to gain half as much.

For me I can run 1 cycle per year or 2 short cycles 6-8 weeks and make gains like it was the first time. I guess it's because I will go 6-7 months before I start up again sometimes a year, but I do understand what you mean Nelson.

 

[needtogetaas]

We are talking about a healthy natural alternative to staying on steroids between cycles. Lets face it even with the best pct you will still lose gains. I have done both pct and stayed on. AAAH staying on works waaaaaaaaaay better lol. And anyone who has stayed on knows damn well staying on a works better. No matter if you got the best damn pct in the word you are still coming off and you are still going to lose a bunch of gains (sooner or later) if you do not get back on soon. Its just a simple fact.

So With that in mind I would love to have a product that brings people to as close to on as you can be with out being on. Make it not only save the gains but bring levels back to normal too. Something healthy.

Anyway just researching and working on it now. Will it be a product in any ones hands in the next month PFFFT doubt it. Something like this takes a long time. But I would love to make it a reality.

 

[thebigoz]

Well you definitely peaked my interest. If you can actually make a product that works as discussed, then who wouldn't want it?

 

[WinnyPumps]

We are talking about a healthy natural alternative to staying on steroids between cycles. Lets face it even with the best pct you will still lose gains. I have done both pct and stayed on. AAAH staying on works waaaaaaaaaay better lol. And anyone who has stayed on knows damn well staying on a works better. No matter if you got the best damn pct in the word you are still coming off and you are still going to lose a bunch of gains (sooner or later) if you do not get back on soon. Its just a simple fact.

So With that in mind I would love to have a product that brings people to as close to on as you can be with out being on. Make it not only save the gains but bring levels back to normal too. Something healthy.

Anyway just researching and working on it now. Will it be a product in any ones hands in the next month PFFFT doubt it. Something like this takes a long time. But I would love to make it a reality.

So when is the approximate time this product might come out?? Ballpark estimation

What is the main purpose of the product??

 

[Wulfgar]

I am guessing Unleashed and big blast are your products you sell nelson?

AS for low Dose AAS protocols....my belief is once someone passes thier bodies genetic set point for how much hormone support and muscle mass can be held naturally "bridging" is the most obvious choice to maintain this larger than intended size.
The simple fact is the body needs its support networks and high enough hormone levels to maintain extreme amounts of size.



For the average guy looking to get bigger this does not apply. But for the competitive BBer I beleive at some point it becomes essential.


I utilie some bridging in my personal use. My most common being
Day 1 250mg primo 50 mg test prop
Days 8-22 500 iu HCG

then repeat. I wont do this for more than 2 cycles before it becomes ineffective. So the next logical choice are non-AAS cycles(GH, Slin, T-3, Clen, Ephedra, etc)


seems to work well to miantain or increase lean Muscle mass in between my higher dose AAS use

 

[Nelson Montana]

nelson if you stay on a full cycle dose all the time you will die before to long. your blood levels are all screwed up and will gradually get worst. if you lower the dose down to 100mg ew for the same duration of time (maybe longer or shorter for some) you can get your blood levels back to normal and start over again. so the difference between bridging and staying on a full cycle could be considered life and death. im not arguing the other points you made just this one.

It depends on the dosages. Yeah, high dose Tren and drol will do you in. (Ironic, since I had so many people on another thread not accepting these dangers). What you're talking about is essentially HRT with occasional cucles. Different thing -- for that, I'd say the nutritional support while just on HRT is mandatory in order to sustain the gains from the cycles.

Wulfgar: I don't sell UNLEASHED and BIG BLAST. I designed them. And yes, for competitors it;s a different thing, but for the majority of people, we want something that is going to replace (somewhat) what we lost from the cycle in order to give us the time to return. This is why so many guys go right back on. But it'd be nice to have something to "hold us over." It's a tall order.

 

[THE GOOD SUN]

PCT helps ..and it's the best we've got ..and certainly better than nothing ..BUT lets not kid ourselves, 4wks of PCT is not going to get your hormones back to your original starting point ..sorry

I know everyone is different, but even so, it woiuld take months (but likely way longer) even with PCT ancillaries ..and then you'd have to gradually taper yourself off of those back to a "natural" state

and if you run TREN DECA ..it gets even more complicated

long story short ..most of us (if not ALL of us) in this game start the next cycle without restoring homeostasis/equilibrium to our hormones/body ..which only seves to further compound the problem

 

[Nelson Montana]

PCT helps ..and it's the best we've got ..and certainly better than nothing ..BUT lets not kid ourselves, 4wks of PCT is not going to get your hormones back to your original starting point ..sorry

I know everyone is different, but even so, it woiuld take months (but likely way longer) even with PCT ancillaries ..and then you'd have to gradually taper yourself off of those back to a "natural" state

and if you run TREN DECA ..it gets even more complicated

long story short ..most of us (if not ALL of us) in this game start the next cycle without restoring homeostasis/equilibrium to our hormones/body ..which only seves to further compound the problem

Absolutely true, especially with Tren and Deca. There is, and never will be, a surefire cure for severe damage. But cycling can be done in a way where you make steady gains and hold them, AND RECUPERATE.

This is why I recommened shorter cycles and it's also why I love Primo. Back when I was cycling I DID recover. (Until I hit about 47 and was never going to have the levels I had at 20, so I just went on HRT). But honestly, I spent thousands of dollars on stuff, experimenting along the way. I STILL use what I believe is helpful (and has been shown effective via blood tests) and for that reason I still produce some natural T. My level usually comes in at 900 or so on only 100 mgs of T a week. But again, I'm a little nuts with this stuff. Even at cost, it isn't cheap -- which is why it's debatable to have all the "good stuff" in a single formula.

I'll tell you what. If it just isn't feasable, I'll list all the things in a future post that I think would work and you can buy them separately. Well, most of them. Some are a bitch to find and have to be ordered from foreign sources. Not that some of you aren't used to that. : )

 

[sonicwaste]

We are talking about a healthy natural alternative to staying on steroids between cycles. Lets face it even with the best pct you will still lose gains. I have done both pct and stayed on. AAAH staying on works waaaaaaaaaay better lol. And anyone who has stayed on knows damn well staying on a works better. No matter if you got the best damn pct in the word you are still coming off and you are still going to lose a bunch of gains (sooner or later) if you do not get back on soon. Its just a simple fact.

So With that in mind I would love to have a product that brings people to as close to on as you can be with out being on. Make it not only save the gains but bring levels back to normal too. Something healthy.

Anyway just researching and working on it now. Will it be a product in any ones hands in the next month PFFFT doubt it. Something like this takes a long time. But I would love to make it a reality.

I don't totally agree that you will eventually lose a lot of your gains by coming off. I came off in fall 2003 and continued to work out through 2004. I didn't lose anything to speak of. The in 2004 I quit working out all together. I didn't work out at all from end of 2004 until then end of 2008. In those years I went from 8%bf to 15%bf and I lost about 8-10lbs of muscle. This was no working out for 4 years! and only 8lbs muscle lost. I got back on in March of this year and within the first 6 weeks I had gained back most of the muscle lost.

I think if you are packing 220 plus at low body fat you are probably at the point where your body can't sustain the added muscle without AAS. But being in the lower range, I think the body is still capable of holding on to the mass as long as you keep training.

Just my thoughts

 

[doublebicep]

A natural product for "in-between" cycles. How would this differ from unleashed? Would it be a super-set of unleashed?

I am definitely interested.

 

[joe d]

I don't totally agree that you will eventually lose a lot of your gains by coming off. I came off in fall 2003 and continued to work out through 2004. I didn't lose anything to speak of. The in 2004 I quit working out all together. I didn't work out at all from end of 2004 until then end of 2008. In those years I went from 8%bf to 15%bf and I lost about 8-10lbs of muscle. This was no working out for 4 years! and only 8lbs muscle lost. I got back on in March of this year and within the first 6 weeks I had gained back most of the muscle lost.

I think if you are packing 220 plus at low body fat you are probably at the point where your body can't sustain the added muscle without AAS. But being in the lower range, I think the body is still capable of holding on to the mass as long as you keep training.

Just my thoughts

thats the thing. you wherent ready for aas yet. aas is much better saved to pass your natural limitations not to try and rush things. there is no set weight its different for everyone. its all in the genetics.

bottom line:
if you are holding more mass than you could of naturally you WILL lose all of that additional mass if you stop the gear. the bigger you get the harder it is to keep and the more gear it takes to keep it and the more gear it takes to continue to grow. eventually it will get to a point where your body will not be able to handle any more and it will shut down if you cross that line. some push farther than others.

 

[sonicwaste]

Needto and Nelson:

What do you guys think about the possibilities of running igf, sarm, and protein peptides during PCT and in between cycles?

I've had a good run with IGF-1 LR3. I know the verdict is still out on SARM, but these things could be promising for retaining gains and continue to gain post cycle. Even if the gains are small, I'd be happy to gain 3-5lbs between cycles. Perhaps that is wishful thinking from igf, sarm, and peptides but still possible.

I am very curious to know you guys' throughts on it.

 

[dabuffguy]

If you want to bridge or stay on, just go into HRT permanently and be done with it.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I'll try to answer all the questions in one shot.

UNLEASHED is great for in-between and would recommend its use, even with the other stuff. What I was thinking about for this products was something that would work along other pathways -- anti-catabolism, blood volume, total T production etc.

Peptides can help,though they're pricy. And IGF is a drug and not without its risks, And SARMS--well, we just don;t know enough yet.

I would not advice anyone under 40 to go on HRT. There's no need for it if the right precautions are made.

 

[Ross]

I am guessing Unleashed and big blast are your products you sell nelson?

AS for low Dose AAS protocols....my belief is once someone passes thier bodies genetic set point for how much hormone support and muscle mass can be held naturally "bridging" is the most obvious choice to maintain this larger than intended size.
The simple fact is the body needs its support networks and high enough hormone levels to maintain extreme amounts of size.



For the average guy looking to get bigger this does not apply. But for the competitive BBer I beleive at some point it becomes essential.


I utilie some bridging in my personal use. My most common being
Day 1 250mg primo 50 mg test prop
Days 8-22 500 iu HCG

then repeat. I wont do this for more than 2 cycles before it becomes ineffective. So the next logical choice are non-AAS cycles(GH, Slin, T-3, Clen, Ephedra, etc)


seems to work well to miantain or increase lean Muscle mass in between my higher dose AAS use

Awesome Post!!

 

[burnthiscorpse]

I think the idea of the product itself is fantastic. With Needto and Nelson working together on it, it makes it that much better IMHO.

This coming cycle of 11-12 weeks will be my last long one. After that I was going to 6 weekers from now on.

I was entertaining the idea of doing something like

cycle week 1-6
pct or hcg 7-12
cycle again 13-18
19-22 PCT again
then 12 weeks off minimum.

. With some sort of HCG or PCT in the middle 6 weeks and again at the end. Bad idea? Or would this product be perfect for the in between phase?

 

[Nelson Montana]

I think the idea of the product itself is fantastic. With Needto and Nelson working together on it, it makes it that much better IMHO.

This coming cycle of 11-12 weeks will be my last long one. After that I was going to 6 weekers from now on.

I was entertaining the idea of doing something like

cycle week 1-6
pct or hcg 7-12
cycle again 13-18
19-22 PCT again
then 12 weeks off minimum.

. With some sort of HCG or PCT in the middle 6 weeks and again at the end. Bad idea? Or would this product be perfect for the in between phase?

I'd try to stay off a little longer than 6 weeks to stabilize the HPTA. Other than that, looks good. And yes, UNLEASHED will help and if everything is done according to what I had in mind, it too will help you recover quicker and help prevent muscle loss.

 

[iron_matt-CB]

I think if your planning on cycling for 10 years or more going on theN off then on your gonna eventually need trt.. How many times can you shut down your hpta and bring it bak with no permanent effect?? So if your gonna probably need to be on trt years down the road why not just stay on for good and blast an cruise.. I dunno just my thoughts

 

[Nelson Montana]

I think if your planning on cycling for 10 years or more going on theN off then on your gonna eventually need trt.. How many times can you shut down your hpta and bring it bak with no permanent effect?? So if your gonna probably need to be on trt years down the road why not just stay on for good and blast an cruise.. I dunno just my thoughts

That's like saying you may eventually need thyroid medication so you might as well go on it at 25.

Remember, the body builds a tolerance to every medication and eventally you need more. If you go on HRT, who knows how much you'll need when you're 40, and what the long term effects might be.

If you need it, you need it. And it's better than not having it. But I strongly advise to NOT just casually go on lifelong therapy.


You are right about excessive cycling though. But again, a couple of cycles a year, done right, with proper PCT and maybe even better recovery, I think you can go for quite a while.

 

[iron_matt-CB]

Say if I were to do 1 year of blasting an cruising would my ability to recover be slim to none?? Also assuming I would be using hcg

 

[Nelson Montana]

Say if I were to do 1 year of blasting an cruising would my ability to recover be slim to none?? Also assuming I would be using hcg

HCG does nothing in terms of maintaining an operative HPTA.

Not sure what you mean by blasting/and/or cruising but if you're on something for a year straight you probably will need HRT unless you want to try and stay off for a year or so with aggressive PCT and therapy thereafter.

 

[iron_matt-CB]

Ya I'm gonna try coming off I think with trs and some unleashed.. Have some blood work done an see where I'm at. If I'm not normal I may decide to go on trt.. Worth giving it a shot, my main concern is sex drive as before this current cycle it wasn't very good at all.. We will see

 

[jacshelb]

I know this isn't totally the original point of this topic. But, I wanted to give a little feedback on SARMS. There have been studies done, clinical trials etc. Old folks, who didn't train were given 3 mg per day of s4 for 6 months (or was it 3?) and gained around 3-5 lbs of lean muscle mass. If it affects prostate, hairline, estrogen levels etc. it is a minute amount.

I am not an experienced or committed enough competitor to stay on all the time. But, I am about 40-50 lbs over my natural muscular weight. I have found out the hard way that I cannot continue to progress to any great degree past this size point without changing something in the way of drugs. I'm not giving up, I'm just acknowledging that I've been diligent and this is where I'm at.

To make regular size gains without getting fat I need some kind of solution such as Wulfgar outlined. My solution for us "intermediate" guys (those at the point of genetic limit but not big competitors yet) is to cycle for 8 weeks aas, pct including products such as Nelson's AND Sarm s4 extended past the regular pct period (several weeks past)to nearly the next cycle or straight into the next aas cycle if needed.

I'm on sarm s4 right now and I am getting some encouraging results. I did 5 weeks of a keto diet without it and am now on week 3 with it. Fat burning has increased- unlike normal at this point in my diet where it would be slowing down. In fact it had all but halted before I went on s4. I have gained and maintained more muscle fullness- which is hard to do when on very little carbs, working a job (or two) and training. No bloat, no testicle shrinkage (I wouldn't have any 3 weeks in anyhow), no noticeable sides (my dose is 75 mg daily, so the eyesight issues have not shown up). I'm up 2 lean lbs by my estimation, and down a half inch on my waist (aprox 2.5 lbs- a good fat loss for me!-even over 3 weeks). Some say s4 makes you crave protein, I'd agree as I am taking in plenty without even thinking about it, around 350-400g per day.

Obviously I can't speak for anyone else and I am not being rigorously scientific, nor can I know the full end results at this point. But, from the research, input from others and my small experience I think we may be looking for that elusive "bridge" drug. Or, at least a base from which to work off of.

 

[ConanX]

Of course a product that allows you to keep your gains between cycles would be amazing. Does it sound like balogne? Yes...but Needto hasn't let me down yet...actually, he's been the F'in man and wouldn't release a BS product, so yeah, that would definitely be something I would like to try.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Of course a product that allows you to keep your gains between cycles would be amazing. Does it sound like balogne? Yes...but Needto hasn't let me down yet...actually, he's been the F'in man and wouldn't release a BS product, so yeah, that would definitely be something I would like to try.

One of the reasons people lose gains is they can't maintain the training intensity. And if they do, they quickly overtrain since the body cannot cope with the stress and recovery. That's part of what needs to be addressed.

PCT and products like UNLEASHED and Sustain help the HPTA to recover but while it's doing so, the muscular, circulatory and nervous system must be able to endure the same strain as it could when on gear. That's the tough part.

 

[ConanX]

One of the reasons people lose gains is they can't maintain the training intensity. And if they do, they quickly overtrain since the body cannot cope with the stress and recovery. That's part of what needs to be addressed.

PCT and products like UNLEASHED and Sustain help the HPTA to recover but while it's doing so, the muscular, circulatory and nervous system must be able to endure the same strain as it could when on gear. That's the tough part.

I totally agree with that. I sometimes will use Ephedrine pre-workout while in PCT so that I can get some extra energy to blast through a workout. I try not to overdo it though as my CNS needs some recovery as well.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I totally agree with that. I sometimes will use Ephedrine pre-workout while in PCT so that I can get some extra energy to blast through a workout. I try not to overdo it though as my CNS needs some recovery as well.

Ephedrine will give an artificial boost for pre workout, but it's ultimately catabolic, so although you can train harder, you're eating muscle tissue and frying your CNS.

You'd be better off with some BIG BLAST, ZIP and AMP02 for a preworkout boost. BIG BLAST will help with recovery as well, though it can be taken it a step further.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

I cant fuck with any sort of ephedra product. That shit just messes with me. Not to mention it gived me ED.

For me, the best thing I have found for pre workout is a few lipo flame caps. The reason I like them so much is its not like crack or speed, or ECA. you barely notice it until you begin to stress your body then its like a switch, bam! Then shortly after your done working out it sort of shuts itself off again. No jitters, racing heart, lethargy.

But whatever, just figured as long as we got off topic.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I cant fuck with any sort of ephedra product. That shit just messes with me. Not to mention it gived me ED.

For me, the best thing I have found for pre workout is a few lipo flame caps. The reason I like them so much is its not like crack or speed, or ECA. you barely notice it until you begin to stress your body then its like a switch, bam! Then shortly after your done working out it sort of shuts itself off again. No jitters, racing heart, lethargy.

But whatever, just figured as long as we got off topic.

If this product gets off the ground that shit is going to be obsolete.

 

[quattr0]

Good post Nelson.

Could you explain the difference between HMG and HCG,how they work and how to use HMG? Reason i am asking is that i did not use HCG or HMG in my first cycle,but i am deff going to add one of them in my upcomming cycle.
Imo bridging is just one step closer to hrt,but i understand if a bb/strongman does it because of competitions or similar.

I have been told to eat more during pct+train with maby 15-20% lighter weights and it worked good with me. But then again i have no other cycles behind me,so i can not use it as a referance from other pct`s. Now i am setting new records without any aas,so i guess i am doing something right

Started my pct 16`th february with nolva and clomid,and runned the nolva at 20mg for 4 weeks and the clomid at 25mg for 5 weeks.
You think i am ready to take my second cycle in august?

 

[Nelson Montana]

Good post Nelson.

Could you explain the difference between HMG and HCG,how they work and how to use HMG? Reason i am asking is that i did not use HCG or HMG in my first cycle,but i am deff going to add one of them in my upcomming cycle.
Imo bridging is just one step closer to hrt,but i understand if a bb/strongman does it because of competitions or similar.
..............................................................

THERE'S SOME INFO ON THE EF HOMEPAGE THAT GETS INTO THE DIFFERENCE.



..........................................................................

I have been told to eat more during pct+train with maby 15-20% lighter weights and it worked good with me. But then again i have no other cycles behind me,so i can not use it as a referance from other pct`s. Now i am setting new records without any aas,so i guess i am doing something right

Started my pct 16`th february with nolva and clomid,and runned the nolva at 20mg for 4 weeks and the clomid at 25mg for 5 weeks.
You think i am ready to take my second cycle in august?
................................................................................

I PERSONALLY HATE CLOMID AND NOLVA. IF YOU'RE FULLY RECOVERED NOW, YOU SHOULD BE GOOD TO GO IN AUGUST.

,,

 

[ConanX]

If this product gets off the ground that shit is going to be obsolete.

Looking foward to it.

 

[marcu_s]

We are talking about a healthy natural alternative to staying on steroids between cycles. Lets face it even with the best pct you will still lose gains. I have done both pct and stayed on. AAAH staying on works waaaaaaaaaay better lol. And anyone who has stayed on knows damn well staying on a works better. No matter if you got the best damn pct in the word you are still coming off and you are still going to lose a bunch of gains (sooner or later) if you do not get back on soon. Its just a simple fact.

So With that in mind I would love to have a product that brings people to as close to on as you can be with out being on. Make it not only save the gains but bring levels back to normal too. Something healthy.

Anyway just researching and working on it now. Will it be a product in any ones hands in the next month PFFFT doubt it. Something like this takes a long time. But I would love to make it a reality.

i would buy a product like that in no time.
thats a great idea.