Arms won't grow/stay solid

[view]

I don't see how you can say isolation curls are useless. You're stimulating the muscle, progress each week and the muscle will grow - it's that simple. Should it be used as your core exercise? No, but isolation curls are great to use towards the end of an arm workout.

Try hooking up the bicep to an EMG (a device that measures stimulus in the muscle) for both the isolation curl and barbell curl and you will soon discover why they are useless.

 

[Madcow2]

"Training bodyparts once a week (arms included) is a farce."


I think training each bodypart once a week works different from person to person. My arms slowed on growing and I lift them twice a week, so I am going to see how once a week works, and if it doesnt I can go right back to twice a week and my muscles won't be used to that routine anymore and hopefully will grow again.

There is a proven detraining effect under the 1x per week scenario. It is never optimal in a base mass building program (lower frequency is useful in deloading or peaking though but this is not a base program designed to accrue gains).

Also frequency by itself means nothing. 1x per week or even 5x per week doesn't mean a thing without variables describing the load being applied.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4776914&postcount=386

 

[wallcrawler]

Hey Jason, Here's a great article on how the Austrian Oak achieved his big guns with *gasp* isolation curls and other dumbbell exercises.

http://www.flexonline.com.au/250.html

 

[CNovaJason]

Thanks to ALL WHO RESPONDED. Wow! I got a great bunch of responses to check out and see what works. Thanks again guys. You can always count on bros in here to hook you up with tips.

 

[Madcow2]

Hey Jason, Here's a great article on how the Austrian Oak achieved his big guns with *gasp* isolation curls and other dumbbell exercises.

http://www.flexonline.com.au/250.html

The issue with that is that we could look at programs used by 1980's BBers to develop their incredible physiques. No deadlifting, no bent-over rows, tons of machines, very little if any squatting, all kinds of odd rep scenarios, tons of isolation work. That shit won't grow anyone yet these guys were huge.

The issue is that we have a distorting factor that is present in all of BBing:

Shitty Training Stimulus X Massive Dose of Anabolics + Good Diet + Good Genetics = Growth

Note the multiplication sign above. A better way to evalutate the effectiveness of training is:

Training Stimulus + Diet = Growth

A supperior stimulus will allow better results for both the natural and drug enhanced lifters although in BBing is common to simply increase the dosage until even the shitties training provides results. Given enough juice even cattle put on a ton of muscle without touching a weight.

 

[BOOEY]

Try hooking up the bicep to an EMG (a device that measures stimulus in the muscle) for both the isolation curl and barbell curl and you will soon discover why they are useless.

To say they are "useless" is very misleading. Useless: futile or ineffective. I never said they were superior to bb curls, in fact I start all my bi workouts with bb curls. But to disregard isolations totally, especially when the OP has a problem with his arms, is not sound advice.

cnovajason - try different methods and find what works best for you.

 

[wallcrawler]

The issue with that is that we could look at programs used by 1980's BBers to develop their incredible physiques. No deadlifting, no bent-over rows, tons of machines, very little if any squatting, all kinds of odd rep scenarios, tons of isolation work. That shit won't grow anyone yet these guys were huge.

The issue is that we have a distorting factor that is present in all of BBing:

Shitty Training Stimulus X Massive Dose of Anabolics + Good Diet + Good Genetics = Growth

Note the multiplication sign above. A better way to evalutate the effectiveness of training is:

Training Stimulus + Diet = Growth

A supperior stimulus will allow better results for both the natural and drug enhanced lifters although in BBing is common to simply increase the dosage until even the shitties training provides results. Given enough juice even cattle put on a ton of muscle without touching a weight.

I can agree with that logic. But to help this guy with his question, what WOULD be superior stimulus for bi's and tri's? I do DB curls and my arms will be FRIED. How can you tell what a 'superior stimulus' is?

 

[dfi]

Everyone responds differently I think. For me push/pull works the best. I.E. I never would do back and bi's or Chest and Tri's in the same workout. What works for me is bi's/tri's, back and chest on other days. For me though, preacher curls are the best way to bomb the bi's up, and heavy behind head extensions for tri's. And yeah what the one dude said about cross bench db pull-overs does give the tri's a good pump too!

 

[Madcow2]

I can agree with that logic. But to help this guy with his question, what WOULD be superior stimulus for bi's and tri's? I do DB curls and my arms will be FRIED. How can you tell what a 'superior stimulus' is?

Well, that kind of brings me back to my original point. I know a ton of people who "fry" their arms with direct arm work and make no progress - probably the majority of people in the gym. If there was some magic combination of arm exercises that were really effective people would have found them by now. I conclude that supperior stimulus is not in any combination of direct arm work although one can certainly add a bit in. All that being said, I don't know anyone using a proper program and consistently putting poundage on their squat, dead, row, and presses that doesn't gain arm mass regardless of whether they train it or not - and usually, if they do train them directly the workload is very minimal and maybe only an exercise or two rotated around (doesn't seem to matter at all which ones). This is for naturals as well as drugged lifters. So, supperior stimulus to me would be proper training in the compound lifts and adding capacity there as a first priority and then a very distant second worrying about direct arm work.

I just never see people pulling or squatting over 500 with shitty arms yet I see a ton of people who have never thought to use a power rack for anything other than a place to set their curl bar between supersets of 21s and dual decline hemoraging bufu curls make no progress for years - to be honest, this is pretty typical.

 

[wallcrawler]

Well, that kind of brings me back to my original point. I know a ton of people who "fry" their arms with direct arm work and make no progress - probably the majority of people in the gym. If there was some magic combination of arm exercises that were really effective people would have found them by now. I conclude that supperior stimulus is not in any combination of direct arm work although one can certainly add a bit in. All that being said, I don't know anyone using a proper program and consistently putting poundage on their squat, dead, row, and presses that doesn't gain arm mass regardless of whether they train it or not - and usually, if they do train them directly the workload is very minimal and maybe only an exercise or two rotated around (doesn't seem to matter at all which ones). This is for naturals as well as drugged lifters. So, supperior stimulus to me would be proper training in the compound lifts and adding capacity there as a first priority and then a very distant second worrying about direct arm work.

I just never see people pulling or squatting over 500 with shitty arms yet I see a ton of people who have never thought to use a power rack for anything other than a place to set their curl bar between supersets of 21s and dual decline hemoraging bufu curls make no progress for years - to be honest, this is pretty typical.

That last part is pretty funny. So are you saying that, atleast THEORETICALLY, a person could do only squats, deads, rows, and presses (I assume you're talking flat bench as opposed to overhead or something else) and get all the arm size thy need? Do you do all of these? What does your routine look like on a weekly basis?
And since I'm asking questions anyway, how DOES someone choke down 4000 calories a day. Weight gainer powder? I literally have to lie down sometimes to keep my stomach from rejecting what I've consumed on a 3000 cal diet! Mind you I'm trying to eat clean which means I have to eat a lot more food to get the actual calories. I mean it sickens me to gag down a whole can of greens and not hardly get any calories from it!