Arms won't grow/stay solid

[CNovaJason]

I train my arms very hard but do not do a LOT of sets for them. I train them as a smaller muscle group than back, or legs and chest. Anyway I have long arms being 6'2" and have had trouble recently putting mass on them and keeping them pumped. I do dumbell curls, straight bar or ezbar curls, and cable curls typically running around 5 sets of each (except for the burnouts on cables) and 5 to 7 reps only. Anyone have some little tips for isolating the bicep muscle if you have longer muscles? Thanks to all who reply! Should I go close or wide grip.....full extension or not? Just let me know thanks bros.

 

[view]

I hate to break it to yah, but 15 sets is quite a bit for biceps alone.

 

[CNovaJason]

No I only do 11.........I do 5 sets of the first two exercises, and then for cables I do a burnout one good set.

 

[blut wump]

It sounds to me like you're overworking your arms. I know it might seem unreasonable but try not to work arms at all for a couple of weeks or even a month and put more time into the big compound movements. Do more bench, squat, rows, deadlift, overhead pressing and then see where you stand with your arms.

 

[Jim Ouini]

It sounds to me like you're overworking your arms. I know it might seem unreasonable but try not to work arms at all for a couple of weeks or even a month and put more time into the big compound movements. Do more bench, squat, rows, deadlift, overhead pressing and then see where you stand with your arms.

For a guy (speaking from personal experience) not doing specific arm work is one of, if not the most, scariest things in the world.

Especially when every magazine cover has Ronnie doing preacher curls or some such thing.

 

[blut wump]

The triceps usually are worth some extra work if you have trouble locking out the bench but I hardly ever work biceps. They're usually telling me they've had enough with the rowing/pulldown/chinup movements. Even when I did work them they'd get only two or three sets a week and then only if I felt I had energy to burn.

Working biceps just weakens your rowing. Not a good trade.

 

[view]

The triceps usually are worth some extra work if you have trouble locking out the bench but I hardly ever work biceps. They're usually telling me they've had enough with the rowing/pulldown/chinup movements. Even when I did work them they'd get only two or three sets a week and then only if I felt I had energy to burn.

Working biceps just weakens your rowing. Not a good trade.

well, this is an individual tolerance. I do not have this problem. unless I trained biceps intensly the day before a back workout -- But i would never do that.

 

[wallcrawler]

Here are some suggestions:

1. First thing I'd do is check your diet. From what I've experienced, if you're working hard for size and not getting it, you might not be getting enough calories/protein. Try multiplying your weight by 14.5. This is a good ballpark figure for how many calories you need. Be sure you're getting about a gram and a half of protein for each pound you weigh.

2. I was really surprised at how my bi's improved when I knuckled down and started using strict form. When doing curls it is vital that you keep your upper arm perpendicular to the floor. I realzed that I had been bringing my elbows forward at the end of the contraction and that takes the stress off the bicep. By keeping your elbows back you keep stress on the bicep thru the emtire rep. Equals BIG pump!

3 I really benefitted from NO2. I've heard a lot of people on here say that it didn't work for them so I can't speak for them, only the results I got. I have since tried other NO products and didn't get as good results. It is pricey but after a few weeks I was sustaining mass in my upper arms. I was also shocked at how my strength went up. On the tricep machine particularly, I noticed that within a month I went from doing a little more than half the stack to doing the whole stack without much fatigue. It was a great feeling! Cell Tech right before my workout gave me the best creatine pumps I've ever had too.

4. I don't know if you're aware of this but the real size of your upper arm comes from the triceps. When I was younger I used to 'play around' with weight and I would always do bi's because I got that little 'pump in the hump' and thought my arm looked BIG. But working bi's AND tri's hard will give your arm the tighter, harder look you want.

5 Here's the routine that worked for me. It isn't an advanced routing but it worked for me and I'm not a naturally 'hard-muscled' guy:

Do back and bi's one day with chest and tri's either the next day or 2 days later. There are 3 phases, each with the same exercises, the weight just goes up after each 4 week phase and reps go down.

You can use whatever exercises you like. I've listed the ones I use:

Phase 1 - weeks 1 - 4:
Biceps:
Barball curl
incline dumbbell curl
preacher curl with EZ curl bar
isolation curls (these really finish them off!)

Tri's:
Behind-the-head press-ups (I do this on a machine but you can use an EZ curl bar or dumbbells)
cable press-down with a rope attachment
nose-breakers with dumbbell or barbell

For each exercise, pick a weight that you hit failure on the 12th rep the first set. The next 3 sets, shoot for as close to 12 reps as you can but you really only HAVE to get 8. Rest 90 seconds between each set and each exercise.

Phase 2 - weeks 5 - 8

Same exercises. Increase the weight to the point where you hit failure on the 9th rep the first set of each exercise. For the next 3 sets try for 9 reps but you really only have to get 5. Rest 2 minutes between each set and between each exercise.

Phase 3 - weeks 9 - 12

Same exercises. Increase the weight to the point where you hit failure on the 5th rep the first set of each exercise. For the next 3 sets try for 5 reps but you really only have to get 2. Rest 3 minutes between each set and between each exercise.

Only work these muscle groups once a week. The poster who said you may be overtraining could be right. After the end of the 12th week actively rest for a week or 2. That means stay out of the gym. Then start over or pick a new routine.

Hope this helps.

 

[rbtrout]

I agree on what wallcrawler said - except one thing. I don't do back and bi's together because whichever one is done first, the other will lack....same with chest and tri's. I do bi's and tri's together, focusing mostly on tri's (2/3s of your upper arm). But that's me, doing back and bi's together might work well for you.

 

[AEKDB]

It sounds to me like you're overworking your arms. I know it might seem unreasonable but try not to work arms at all for a couple of weeks or even a month and put more time into the big compound movements. Do more bench, squat, rows, deadlift, overhead pressing and then see where you stand with your arms.

The above and add some grip forearm work. Not just wrist curls but thick bar work, plate curls, grippers, sledgehammer work, etc.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Multiply your bodyweight by 14.5 for how many calories you need to grow!? I'm not even going to get started.

 

[BOOEY]

Work your arms on their own day and see how that works for you

 

[psilo]

Multiply your bodyweight by 14.5 for how many calories you need to grow!? I'm not even going to get started.

Agreed! On 14.5 calories per pound, I lose weight like I'm in a fucking prison camp. Try 18-20+ calories per pound.

 

[Madcow2]

have had trouble recently putting mass on them and keeping them pumped

Don't worry about keeping them pumped. A pump doesn't mean shit.

I'm 6'3" and have fairly long arms. They get bigger when I increase the compound lifts. When I increase my capacity in rows, pressed, squats, and pulls I gain arm mass. If I'm feeling like it, I'll throw in a bicept or tricept exercise 1-2x per week for 3 sets. I'll rotate these in and out depending on whether there is a specific purpose or just general. Direct arm work means nothing to long-term progress and adding mass to the arm (wouldn't the noodle arms in the gym have lucked into the best combination of exercises by now?) it just flushes out your base a bit. If this is important to you spend some more time on it but you already have so much volume that I don't see this helping. Give them a break for a bit and worry about increasing your row or overhead press. Come back to them after you make some gains there.

 

[view]

Here are some suggestions:

1. First thing I'd do is check your diet. From what I've experienced, if you're working hard for size and not getting it, you might not be getting enough calories/protein. Try multiplying your weight by 14.5. This is a good ballpark figure for how many calories you need. Be sure you're getting about a gram and a half of protein for each pound you weigh.

14.5 x bw eh?? maybe if your goal is to be the next CK model.

2. I was really surprised at how my bi's improved when I knuckled down and started using strict form. When doing curls it is vital that you keep your upper arm perpendicular to the floor. I realzed that I had been bringing my elbows forward at the end of the contraction and that takes the stress off the bicep. By keeping your elbows back you keep stress on the bicep thru the emtire rep. Equals BIG pump!

A pump in NO way is an indicator of a good workout.

3 I really benefitted from NO2. I've heard a lot of people on here say that it didn't work for them so I can't speak for them, only the results I got. I have since tried other NO products and didn't get as good results. It is pricey but after a few weeks I was sustaining mass in my upper arms. I was also shocked at how my strength went up. On the tricep machine particularly, I noticed that within a month I went from doing a little more than half the stack to doing the whole stack without much fatigue. It was a great feeling! Cell Tech right before my workout gave me the best creatine pumps I've ever had too.

It's the supplements... right....

4. I don't know if you're aware of this but the real size of your upper arm comes from the triceps. When I was younger I used to 'play around' with weight and I would always do bi's because I got that little 'pump in the hump' and thought my arm looked BIG. But working bi's AND tri's hard will give your arm the tighter, harder look you want.

First thing i've agreed with so far, tricpes are the real size of the arm, not the biceps.

5 Here's the routine that worked for me. It isn't an advanced routing but it worked for me and I'm not a naturally 'hard-muscled' guy:

Do back and bi's one day with chest and tri's either the next day or 2 days later. There are 3 phases, each with the same exercises, the weight just goes up after each 4 week phase and reps go down.

You can use whatever exercises you like. I've listed the ones I use:

Phase 1 - weeks 1 - 4:
Biceps:
Barball curl
incline dumbbell curl
preacher curl with EZ curl bar
isolation curls (these really finish them off!)

Isolation curls are useless.

Tri's:
Behind-the-head press-ups (I do this on a machine but you can use an EZ curl bar or dumbbells)
cable press-down with a rope attachment
nose-breakers with dumbbell or barbell

Only useful exercise here is the skull crushers with a bb.

For each exercise, pick a weight that you hit failure on the 12th rep the first set. The next 3 sets, shoot for as close to 12 reps as you can but you really only HAVE to get 8. Rest 90 seconds between each set and each exercise.

Phase 2 - weeks 5 - 8

Same exercises. Increase the weight to the point where you hit failure on the 9th rep the first set of each exercise. For the next 3 sets try for 9 reps but you really only have to get 5. Rest 2 minutes between each set and between each exercise.

Phase 3 - weeks 9 - 12

Same exercises. Increase the weight to the point where you hit failure on the 5th rep the first set of each exercise. For the next 3 sets try for 5 reps but you really only have to get 2. Rest 3 minutes between each set and between each exercise.

Only work these muscle groups once a week. The poster who said you may be overtraining could be right. After the end of the 12th week actively rest for a week or 2. That means stay out of the gym. Then start over or pick a new routine.

Training bodyparts once a week (arms included) is a farce.

Hope this helps.

My thought are bolded.

 

[BOOEY]

I don't see how you can say isolation curls are useless. You're stimulating the muscle, progress each week and the muscle will grow - it's that simple. Should it be used as your core exercise? No, but isolation curls are great to use towards the end of an arm workout.

 

[musketeer]

My arms are now pushing 18 inches and I do very little direct arm work.

The two arm exercises I sometimes do are incline dumbell curls & cable pressdowns.

These key exercises are all I really do now:

Squats (no arm involvement)

Presh press (tris)
Low Incline Bench (tris)
Dips (tris)
Cross Bench Dumbell Pullover (tris - believe me!)

Chinup (bis, forearms)
Bent Barbel Row (bis, forearms)
Deadlift (bis, forearms)

 

[ScottK345]

"Training bodyparts once a week (arms included) is a farce."


I think training each bodypart once a week works different from person to person. My arms slowed on growing and I lift them twice a week, so I am going to see how once a week works, and if it doesnt I can go right back to twice a week and my muscles won't be used to that routine anymore and hopefully will grow again.

 

[wallcrawler]

Re: Arms won't grow/stay solid

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

REPLIES ARE IN BOLD(NOT SHOUTING)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallcrawler
Here are some suggestions:

1. First thing I'd do is check your diet. From what I've experienced, if you're working hard for size and not getting it, you might not be getting enough calories/protein. Try multiplying your weight by 14.5. This is a good ballpark figure for how many calories you need. Be sure you're getting about a gram and a half of protein for each pound you weigh.

14.5 x bw eh?? maybe if your goal is to be the next CK model.

WELL, I SURE NEVER SAID I WANTED TO BE A BODYBUILDER! THIS EQUATION CAME FROM A BOOK BY ED BYRD THE GUY WHO CREATED NO2. I JUST FOLLOWED IT AND IT WORKED FOR ME!
2. I was really surprised at how my bi's improved when I knuckled down and started using strict form. When doing curls it is vital that you keep your upper arm perpendicular to the floor. I realzed that I had been bringing my elbows forward at the end of the contraction and that takes the stress off the bicep. By keeping your elbows back you keep stress on the bicep thru the emtire rep. Equals BIG pump!

A pump in NO way is an indicator of a good workout.

NO, BUT IT PRIMES THE MUSCLE FOR GREATER GROWTH

3 I really benefitted from NO2. I've heard a lot of people on here say that it didn't work for them so I can't speak for them, only the results I got. I have since tried other NO products and didn't get as good results. It is pricey but after a few weeks I was sustaining mass in my upper arms. I was also shocked at how my strength went up. On the tricep machine particularly, I noticed that within a month I went from doing a little more than half the stack to doing the whole stack without much fatigue. It was a great feeling! Cell Tech right before my workout gave me the best creatine pumps I've ever had too.

It's the supplements... right....


SO BY YOUR SARCASM ARE YOU INFERRING THAT SUPPS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH GROWTH? ARE YOU SUPPLEMENT-FREE?


4. I don't know if you're aware of this but the real size of your upper arm comes from the triceps. When I was younger I used to 'play around' with weight and I would always do bi's because I got that little 'pump in the hump' and thought my arm looked BIG. But working bi's AND tri's hard will give your arm the tighter, harder look you want.

First thing i've agreed with so far, tricpes are the real size of the arm, not the biceps.

WOW, I WAS RIGHT FOR ONCE!

5 Here's the routine that worked for me. It isn't an advanced routing but it worked for me and I'm not a naturally 'hard-muscled' guy:

Do back and bi's one day with chest and tri's either the next day or 2 days later. There are 3 phases, each with the same exercises, the weight just goes up after each 4 week phase and reps go down.

You can use whatever exercises you like. I've listed the ones I use:

Phase 1 - weeks 1 - 4:
Biceps:
Barball curl
incline dumbbell curl
preacher curl with EZ curl bar
isolation curls (these really finish them off!)

Isolation curls are useless.

Tri's:
Behind-the-head press-ups (I do this on a machine but you can use an EZ curl bar or dumbbells)
cable press-down with a rope attachment
nose-breakers with dumbbell or barbell

Only useful exercise here is the skull crushers with a bb.

For each exercise, pick a weight that you hit failure on the 12th rep the first set. The next 3 sets, shoot for as close to 12 reps as you can but you really only HAVE to get 8. Rest 90 seconds between each set and each exercise.

Phase 2 - weeks 5 - 8

Same exercises. Increase the weight to the point where you hit failure on the 9th rep the first set of each exercise. For the next 3 sets try for 9 reps but you really only have to get 5. Rest 2 minutes between each set and between each exercise.

Phase 3 - weeks 9 - 12

Same exercises. Increase the weight to the point where you hit failure on the 5th rep the first set of each exercise. For the next 3 sets try for 5 reps but you really only have to get 2. Rest 3 minutes between each set and between each exercise.

Only work these muscle groups once a week. The poster who said you may be overtraining could be right. After the end of the 12th week actively rest for a week or 2. That means stay out of the gym. Then start over or pick a new routine.

Training bodyparts once a week (arms included) is a farce.

SO ALL THE PROS WHO POST THEIR ONE-BODY-PART-A-WEEK ROUTINES IN FLEX, ETC., ARE ALL FULL OF SH*T? WELL, THEY MUST WANT TO KEEP THEIR REAL WORKOUTS A SECRET SO YOU WON'T COPY THEM AND BECOME MR. UNIVERSE.


I NEVER SAID I WAS A PRO BODYBUILDER. THIS PERSON ASKED HOW HE COULD GET HIS ARMS TO GROW AND STAY SOLID. I REPLIED WITH WHAT WORKED FOR ME. I GET REPLIES LIKE THE ABOVE RIPPING ME.

HEY VIEW, HERE'S A THOUGHT. IF YOU WANT TO MAKE FUN OF WHAT WORKED FOR ME, THATS COOL, BUT IN THE PROCESS HOW ABOUT
ACTUALLY OFFERING SOME REAL ADVICE FOR THIS GUY WHO IS ASKING FOR HELP.

AND FOR ANYONE WHO CAN CHOKE DOWN 4000-5000 CALORIES A DAY, GOD BLESS YOU AND YOUR STOMACH. IT'S A STRUGGLE FOR ME TO GET DOWN 3000!

 

[theoak01]

I find training chest/bi's works and then I do tri's on a day with shoulders and roughly 9 sets for each muscle,and I do the last exercise on cables as a drop set

my current routine is
bi's
hammer curls 3x6-8
preacher curls 3x6-8
cable curls 3 drop sets

tri's dips 3x5
overhead french press 3x8
pushdowns 3 drop sets

been working good and might be worth a try

 

[view]

I don't see how you can say isolation curls are useless. You're stimulating the muscle, progress each week and the muscle will grow - it's that simple. Should it be used as your core exercise? No, but isolation curls are great to use towards the end of an arm workout.

Try hooking up the bicep to an EMG (a device that measures stimulus in the muscle) for both the isolation curl and barbell curl and you will soon discover why they are useless.

 

[Madcow2]

"Training bodyparts once a week (arms included) is a farce."


I think training each bodypart once a week works different from person to person. My arms slowed on growing and I lift them twice a week, so I am going to see how once a week works, and if it doesnt I can go right back to twice a week and my muscles won't be used to that routine anymore and hopefully will grow again.

There is a proven detraining effect under the 1x per week scenario. It is never optimal in a base mass building program (lower frequency is useful in deloading or peaking though but this is not a base program designed to accrue gains).

Also frequency by itself means nothing. 1x per week or even 5x per week doesn't mean a thing without variables describing the load being applied.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4776914&postcount=386

 

[wallcrawler]

Hey Jason, Here's a great article on how the Austrian Oak achieved his big guns with *gasp* isolation curls and other dumbbell exercises.

http://www.flexonline.com.au/250.html

 

[CNovaJason]

Thanks to ALL WHO RESPONDED. Wow! I got a great bunch of responses to check out and see what works. Thanks again guys. You can always count on bros in here to hook you up with tips.

 

[Madcow2]

Hey Jason, Here's a great article on how the Austrian Oak achieved his big guns with *gasp* isolation curls and other dumbbell exercises.

http://www.flexonline.com.au/250.html

The issue with that is that we could look at programs used by 1980's BBers to develop their incredible physiques. No deadlifting, no bent-over rows, tons of machines, very little if any squatting, all kinds of odd rep scenarios, tons of isolation work. That shit won't grow anyone yet these guys were huge.

The issue is that we have a distorting factor that is present in all of BBing:

Shitty Training Stimulus X Massive Dose of Anabolics + Good Diet + Good Genetics = Growth

Note the multiplication sign above. A better way to evalutate the effectiveness of training is:

Training Stimulus + Diet = Growth

A supperior stimulus will allow better results for both the natural and drug enhanced lifters although in BBing is common to simply increase the dosage until even the shitties training provides results. Given enough juice even cattle put on a ton of muscle without touching a weight.

 

[BOOEY]

Try hooking up the bicep to an EMG (a device that measures stimulus in the muscle) for both the isolation curl and barbell curl and you will soon discover why they are useless.

To say they are "useless" is very misleading. Useless: futile or ineffective. I never said they were superior to bb curls, in fact I start all my bi workouts with bb curls. But to disregard isolations totally, especially when the OP has a problem with his arms, is not sound advice.

cnovajason - try different methods and find what works best for you.

 

[wallcrawler]

The issue with that is that we could look at programs used by 1980's BBers to develop their incredible physiques. No deadlifting, no bent-over rows, tons of machines, very little if any squatting, all kinds of odd rep scenarios, tons of isolation work. That shit won't grow anyone yet these guys were huge.

The issue is that we have a distorting factor that is present in all of BBing:

Shitty Training Stimulus X Massive Dose of Anabolics + Good Diet + Good Genetics = Growth

Note the multiplication sign above. A better way to evalutate the effectiveness of training is:

Training Stimulus + Diet = Growth

A supperior stimulus will allow better results for both the natural and drug enhanced lifters although in BBing is common to simply increase the dosage until even the shitties training provides results. Given enough juice even cattle put on a ton of muscle without touching a weight.

I can agree with that logic. But to help this guy with his question, what WOULD be superior stimulus for bi's and tri's? I do DB curls and my arms will be FRIED. How can you tell what a 'superior stimulus' is?

 

[dfi]

Everyone responds differently I think. For me push/pull works the best. I.E. I never would do back and bi's or Chest and Tri's in the same workout. What works for me is bi's/tri's, back and chest on other days. For me though, preacher curls are the best way to bomb the bi's up, and heavy behind head extensions for tri's. And yeah what the one dude said about cross bench db pull-overs does give the tri's a good pump too!

 

[Madcow2]

I can agree with that logic. But to help this guy with his question, what WOULD be superior stimulus for bi's and tri's? I do DB curls and my arms will be FRIED. How can you tell what a 'superior stimulus' is?

Well, that kind of brings me back to my original point. I know a ton of people who "fry" their arms with direct arm work and make no progress - probably the majority of people in the gym. If there was some magic combination of arm exercises that were really effective people would have found them by now. I conclude that supperior stimulus is not in any combination of direct arm work although one can certainly add a bit in. All that being said, I don't know anyone using a proper program and consistently putting poundage on their squat, dead, row, and presses that doesn't gain arm mass regardless of whether they train it or not - and usually, if they do train them directly the workload is very minimal and maybe only an exercise or two rotated around (doesn't seem to matter at all which ones). This is for naturals as well as drugged lifters. So, supperior stimulus to me would be proper training in the compound lifts and adding capacity there as a first priority and then a very distant second worrying about direct arm work.

I just never see people pulling or squatting over 500 with shitty arms yet I see a ton of people who have never thought to use a power rack for anything other than a place to set their curl bar between supersets of 21s and dual decline hemoraging bufu curls make no progress for years - to be honest, this is pretty typical.

 

[wallcrawler]

Well, that kind of brings me back to my original point. I know a ton of people who "fry" their arms with direct arm work and make no progress - probably the majority of people in the gym. If there was some magic combination of arm exercises that were really effective people would have found them by now. I conclude that supperior stimulus is not in any combination of direct arm work although one can certainly add a bit in. All that being said, I don't know anyone using a proper program and consistently putting poundage on their squat, dead, row, and presses that doesn't gain arm mass regardless of whether they train it or not - and usually, if they do train them directly the workload is very minimal and maybe only an exercise or two rotated around (doesn't seem to matter at all which ones). This is for naturals as well as drugged lifters. So, supperior stimulus to me would be proper training in the compound lifts and adding capacity there as a first priority and then a very distant second worrying about direct arm work.

I just never see people pulling or squatting over 500 with shitty arms yet I see a ton of people who have never thought to use a power rack for anything other than a place to set their curl bar between supersets of 21s and dual decline hemoraging bufu curls make no progress for years - to be honest, this is pretty typical.

That last part is pretty funny. So are you saying that, atleast THEORETICALLY, a person could do only squats, deads, rows, and presses (I assume you're talking flat bench as opposed to overhead or something else) and get all the arm size thy need? Do you do all of these? What does your routine look like on a weekly basis?
And since I'm asking questions anyway, how DOES someone choke down 4000 calories a day. Weight gainer powder? I literally have to lie down sometimes to keep my stomach from rejecting what I've consumed on a 3000 cal diet! Mind you I'm trying to eat clean which means I have to eat a lot more food to get the actual calories. I mean it sickens me to gag down a whole can of greens and not hardly get any calories from it!

 

[blut wump]

I've never been a fan of biceps work. Ok sometimes I've been known to get carried away but generally my biceps get worked about once a month if that. What madcow has described does work. Just concentrate on compound exercises and work lesser muscles if you have the energy, inclination or a direct need.

I remember reading some training article decades ago which was a story about some teenager who went to the local guru to get help with his arm size. The guy said that he'd get to training arms soon enough but first he had to work on his squats. A month later he spoke to the guru again about doing some arm work and was told that he was progressing nicely and now it was time to add deadlift. You get the idea. After a few months the guru said that he could work his arms now if he wanted but he hoped the student need only measure his current arms to realise that he didn't need to.

For someone who works the compound lifts, arm size is more about genetics and overall body mass than how much you blast away at them. I'm a bit on the portly side myself, which inflates my measurement, but I have 18" arms. I reckon I've added about an inch to them over the past year as I've added about 20-25 pounds to my bulk. I don't measure them often so can't be accurate.

 

[Madcow2]

That last part is pretty funny. So are you saying that, atleast THEORETICALLY, a person could do only squats, deads, rows, and presses (I assume you're talking flat bench as opposed to overhead or something else) and get all the arm size thy need? Do you do all of these? What does your routine look like on a weekly basis?
And since I'm asking questions anyway, how DOES someone choke down 4000 calories a day. Weight gainer powder? I literally have to lie down sometimes to keep my stomach from rejecting what I've consumed on a 3000 cal diet! Mind you I'm trying to eat clean which means I have to eat a lot more food to get the actual calories. I mean it sickens me to gag down a whole can of greens and not hardly get any calories from it!

I always use Pendlay as an example because I actually do direct arm work so this corrupts thing even though I've gone through long periods where I haven't. Glenn hasn't done arm work in years other than one-off bets. He's probably squatted 800, cleaned in the mid 400's, snatched north of 350, push pressed over 400 for reps, strict rowed 400 for reps, power shrugged in the 800s. So pretty huge lifts overall but he's not holding records anywhere. Bodyweight got up to 350 or maybe a bit more at his peak. Arm size was 22-23". He could pick up a barbell at random and strict curl 225 for reps. I'm sure if he trained his arms for a period they would be bigger and more aesthetic (he'd probably curl a lot more fairly quickly too) but it is incredibly doubtful that his arms suffered at all in long-term gains as a result of years upon years of total negligence. Granted he could puff them up a bit with some isolation work and add a bit of short-term size but the long term gains in arm mass are completely from compound lifts. So that's why I say it doesn't really matter what one does for direct work because anything can get you some quick short-term gains but for long-term progress, direct arm work doesn't matter. Train them for years or neglect them for years and hit them a bit for 2 months and you'll likely find the same arm size.

EDIT - for diet, I don't know what to tell you. If you want to eat clean but don't get enough calories you can't get bigger. It can be an intersection but need not be. If you opt for "dirty" or more calorically dense foods (no need to be a total slob) you'll get more calories for the same consumption in volume. Basically, if you can't get enough calories but you still want to get bigger - you have to sit down and decide what it is that you want most.

 

[blut wump]

I wouldn't be surprised if that 225 is a pretty consevative estimate. I last did BB curls after I'd finished the 5x5 in early March and did around 150 for non-cheat reps.

 

[ScottK345]

hey wallcrawler sorry if it seemed like I was ripping on you. I didn't mean any offense.

 

[wallcrawler]

hey wallcrawler sorry if it seemed like I was ripping on you. I didn't mean any offense.

Dude, you in no way ripped on me. One of the guys kinda laughed at what I said about figuring your daily caloric intake multiplying your weight by 14.5. He said multiply it instead by 18 or 20. He actually offered an alternative that he saw as the correct one. That was cool. Others on here however flamed things that I said but didn't actually offer any helpful advice of their own.
I don't really give a shit what anyone says about the advice I give, but I think they should at least be able to offer some alternative for the poster who asked for help in the first place like madcow, dfi, blut wump, booey and a couple of the others did. I actually learned a lot from them in this thread.
ANYONE could spend weeks going thru all the threads and ripping apart people's suggestions with little half-sentence comments like "...it's the supplements...right.." without actually offering any helpful suggestion of their own. I came to this sight to look for advice in certain areas and have gotten WAY more than I expected. I try to pay it back by helping anyone who asks for it as best as I can. Seems like you and most of the others on here do as well.

 

[JKurz1]

So what do you guys find to be the best ARM routine, if you were going to do one.....

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

I used to do 10 sets a day in a week for biceps for four weeks. Then I did some research and read that 4 sets a week is enough for biceps because if you are long and skinny your body needs more rest. So I tried and the past two weeks doing only 4 sets a week my bicep grow a centimeter. Your arms will not grow if the rest of the body is lacking mass and not exercised. The most important thing is the nutrition part. If you aint getting a gram of protein for every pound you weigh then no matter what technique you use they won't grow. You may already know this, but just reinforming. So try 4 sets a week and maybe a warmupset, workout your other muscles, and eat alot. You should not have any problem gaining mass.

 

[collateral]

Hey
I read an interesting theory a few years ago regarding the hard-to-grow arms. Those individuals who practiced earlier certain martial arts (eg. karate) could have their FASCIA (? - the thing wraps your muscle around) became so thick that it is not letting the arm muscle to grow easily (the fascia is getting very strong due to the fact of the controlled hits).
To help on this you should make streching excersise after each rep.
/I tried this several times and did help a bit

Does anyone heard this theory before?