Argh!! I fucked it up.

[Mr.X]

Dsiclaimer : Im simply defending my statement, no disrespect is meant to Mr. X or any other supporter of the Ketogenic diet, I use them to cut up too.

Directly from The Ketogenic Diet by Lyle:
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#1 just because Lyle wrote it, it doesn't mean it's true


Golay A et al. Weight-loss with low or high carbohydrate diet? Int J Obes(1996) 20: 1067-1072.

Alford BB et. al. The effects of variations in carbohyrate, protein and fat content of the diet upon weight loss, blood values and nutrient intake of adult women. J Am Diet Assoc (1990) 90: 534-540
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that's the only study I've ever seen....#1 it's not extensive
#2 it's done on women, and things like MENAPAUSE and estrogen levels are NOT accounted for
#3 it was done in 1990, in true science anything over 5 y/o is not valid

Both of these studies found no significant difference in the weight or fat-loss between groups consuming high- or low carbohydrate diets.
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just because they were doing LOW carbs, it does NOT mean they were in Ketosis...BIG! difference

I NEVER said ketosis didnt work and its a fact it exists, I never claimed that it didnt work so since I never claimed to be able to do so, Im not going to disprove ketosis. My statement simply was that assuming calorie levels are the same, there will be no significant difference between the amount of fat-lost in a ketogenic diet vs a non-ketogenic one.
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again, that's a blanket statement

Maybe it was my mistake for attempting to make a blanket statement about somthing like diets which vary from person to person and I certainly meant no disrespect to Mr. X but thermodynamics are thermodynamics in the end.
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the law of thermodynamics IS NOT broken, because output of calories can come from fat/protein/or carbs, as a result, if you're burning 200cal. of protein then whallllaaaa! you followed the law but LOST muscle

And while I agree there is a higher rate of fat-burning, there is also a higher-intake of dietary fat which represents a good portion of the fat being burned.
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that is why other factors like exercise come into play


Mr.X

 

[MrMakaveli]

#1 just because Lyle wrote it, it doesn't mean it's true

lol, true true. I never thought of the other factors in the study you pointed out, guess this is what I get for arguing with a mod huh?

 

[PopiChulo]

DING DING DING!!!!! At the end of round one
MR X 1, and MrMakaveli 0

 

[Vageta]

Regardless if he was in ketosis or not, if he was at a significant caloric deficit then he undoubtedly did not put fat back on his abs and most likely was still burning fat. You dont' HAVE to be in ketosis to burn fat or else no other diet would work at all. Period. Fact that his carbs were still very low means insulin was still at bay so there was an extremely low possibility of fat storage.

Without arguing clouding the main issue the plain fact is this. Even if you don't achieve ketosis quickly, or even break out of it, you can and will still burn fat. It may not have been as much as if you were in ketosis, but it will happen nonetheless. There is truly no magic in a ketogenic diet. It seems as if people are so concerned with ketones that they believe they are the end all be it of fat loss when in truth they are just another means to an end achievable in many other ways.

And just for sake of the obvious, onions and garlic don't contain many carbs. You'd have to eat a ton of them to break out of ketosis believe me and it didn't sound like you did. Not sure how many carbs are in cocoa powder but if anything it was that or something else entirely that caused the problem.

 

[Mr.X]

hahahaha

this reminds me of the old days when me and MS used to battle it out in the KETOSIS vs. OTHERS field....what a waste of time....

I'll just leave it at that, no one ever wins in these arguments

Mr.X

 

[DanielBishop]

I'm not THAT knowledgable about it, but what MrMakaveli and Vageta said makes sense to me....

.... that's not to say I would have burnt the same amount of fat or even burnt ANY fat while out of ketosis (if indeed I had knocked myself out of it), but I don't think I would have gained as much fat as I initially thought.... if any at all.

I didn't have much onion or garlic. About 1/3 of an onion, and two cloves of garlic.... hardly the end of the world. And I was using about half a teaspoon of cocoa powder, 3 times a day. So when I think about it sensibly, I probably didn't knock myself out of ketosis at all....

.... but oh well. I got frustrated and disappointed and decided to start over. That night I ate a bunch of carbs to "reset" my metabolism (I haven't read any research supporting the benefits of this, but it's more of a sulking, pouting remedy for when things go wrong).... and started the CKD diet again from day 1.

It worked out better, since day 1 then was a Monday instead of a Thursday. That uniformity helps, since I can have my refeed day on Sunday (my day off)....

.... so, all is well.

 

[Vageta]

Daniel,

I didn't want to get this thread into a full blown arguement about ketogenic diets. I simply wanted to assure you that what you did wasn't the end of the world. Even IF you got kicked out of ketosis you wouldn't have put any fat back on unless you ate more than you burned which I doubt you did since you're dieting. I lost a lot of weight on a 100g of carb per day diet with the rest of my calories coming from fat and protein. I never reached ketosis but I had a high fat intake and had no trouble burning fat.

As I said ketosis is one means to an end but it's hardly required.

 

[Mr.X]

Ok, Ok, you guys got me....

I am trying REALLY hard to not respond, and it is WORKING. I can only picture the time I spent arguing w/ MS, I think the last post w/ her (2 years ago) was about 80 responses.

So, I'll just let all of this go........everyone has the freedom to believe what they want.

Mr.X

 

[DanielBishop]

It matters not!!

I've been back on track for 3 days (so I guess I'm back in ketosis.... I hope) and it's all okay.

I know the debate isn't around me, but the principles of calorie deficiencies/ketosis.... but still....

 

[Major Glory]

But the question is.... WHO was on Life Essentials multi!


answer....


noone thus if they were, they would be GOD! Because you do not choose to take Life Essentials... Life Essentials choose you!...

LOL sorry