Advice

[Unit 2005]

Last thread did'nt quiet work, so here we go again.

Looking to add mass, exp in legs and arms. Chest, shoulders and back aint too bad. Obviously need improvment, but are more developed than my legs and arms.

Has anyone got a result producing program or can give some advice on training i would really appreciate that. Not really sure how im going to train, i could either split everything up and do a 5 day split and rest weekends, or a mon, wed, fri split or possibly a TBW squat, bench, dead style split. Any Ideas??

About to break up for xmas break (Im a student!) so iv got quite a bit of time on my hands and wana take advantage of this in terms of training my guts out in the gym, ill also have alot of time to prepare decent food so my diet should be pretty sharp.

Opinions on training? Best suited routine? or any general adivce would be great.

 

[BiggT]

My advice is to keep it simple. If your legs aren't up to snuff, you need to squat, not Smith Machine Squat, not superset leg extensions with leg presses, not hack machine squat, you need to squat, plain and simple.

As far as the actual routine, the most important thing is progressive resistance. Do 3x10 or 5x5 or 4x6 or 5x7 or 4x8 or whatever, just pick a set/rep scheme and STICK WITH IT.....in the beginning, I'd recommend pyramiding up to a top end set, then every workout try to add 10 lbs to that and get all your reps.....no spot....spotters are for safety if your life needs to be saved, not to 'help' you get reps that you are uncapable of doing on your own. I don't use a spotter on squats, if I get stuck, I dump it in the rack.

Check out the 5x5 thread on here.....if you don't want to do 5 sets of 5, thats fine, but read the thread and get a good handle on the concept behind it, and then you can design something to your very own liking.

 

[Unit 2005]

Yeah iv tried a 5x5 routine before and got some decent strength gains in bench, shoulder pressess and squats. Did'nt seem to get much bigger though!

I will have a read of whats on here on the 5x5 though and see if it differs to the one i followed.

I have also done another strength/mass routine, wanted to get some views on this one. It goes -

Monday - Legs

(1) Squats - 3 x10 (50% max)
(2) Deep Squats - 2 x 8
(3) Wide stance squats - 1 x 8
(4) Narrow stance squats - 1 x 8
(5) Leg press - 3 x 10
(6) Calf raises - 3 x 10

Wednesday - Chest, Tris

(1) Bench press - 3 x 8
(2) CG bench - 1 x 8
(3) WG Bench - 1 x 8
(4) Incline bench - 3 x 8
(5) Dips - 3 x 10
(6) Skullcrushers - 3 x 8
(7) Pushdowns - 3 x 10

Friday - Back, Bis

(1) Deads - 3 x 8
(2) CG Deads - 1 x 8
(3) WG Deads - 1 x 8
(4) Pulldowns - 3 x 8
(5) BB Rows - 3 x 10
(6) Hammer St rows - 2 x 8
(7) Any Curl movement - 3 x 10

The first 4 weeks are as above, then on from weeks 4-8, on exercises 1 - 3, the reps are halfed (8 down to 4 etc) and on the "back up" exercises where you do 10 reps from weeks 1-4, you do 7 in weeks 4-8.

My only problem with this routine is that there is'nt any direct shoulder work, and the same with abs. The reason behind the shoulder and ab work is that due to the heavy bench and deadlifting, the delts get smashed and squats and deads are resposible for the core strengthening.

Any views on this type of routine?

 

[BiggT]

ALL of your squats should be deep, man......That routine is not bad or anything, but it is way too much shit for my liking, I like things simple.....pick 3-4 main lifts and do them in a training cycle and try to get good at them, as you get stronger, you'll get bigger, provided you eat enough of the right things........for example, I'd just do conventional deads for 5x8, rather than screwing around with all different stances.....don't squeeze 10lbs of shit in a 5lb bag, you can only get so good at so much in a given time, don't worry about potential weaknesses until they become actual weaknesses.

For fitting direct shoulder work, I'd flat bench on Mon, Incline on Wed, and OHP on Fri.....for abs I would do 3 sets of abs before every workout as a warm-up. As far as squats, don't get caught up in a %, unless you're a very, very advanced lifter with many years of consistent training under your belt, you'll be short-changing yourself....3x10 is fine, just pick a weight that you can make all 3 sets of 10, and shoot for a 10lb increase weekly, you'll grow.

Your layout is fine in general, but I am all for simplicity, quality over quantity.

What is your plan as far as eating goes? What is your height/weight/general body comp. like right now???

 

[Unit 2005]

im 5'10'', around 185lbs. Dont really know my BF, when i was in college 3 years ago it was 11% but probably more than that now.

As far as eating goes, i have just tried to eat a full on super clean diet and stuck to it for about 3 weeks. By super clean i mean the same thing, same time (give or take 30 mins) every day. Was not as hard as i thought it would have been, i was eating egg whites, oats, chicken breasts, tuna, brown rice, pasta along with protien shakes but some how managed to stick with it. It all just got a little boring really and when i started cheating a little, it all went out of the window!

I have studied sports nutrition at university and am actually writing my dissertation on nutrition in sport, so i know what foods are good for adding muscle, burning fat etc. Only problem i have is i tend to over complicate this area of training which i agree is massive. More improtant than the time you spend in the gym.

From no on i think i'll keep nutrition simple, Oats and egg whites in the morning, meat twice a day with some form of decent carbs, plenty of fruit n veg, a few protien shakes and a little something differet to keep myself on track and make sure my diet is well balanced.

You think i hit chest twice a week? What about other body parts? I have usually worked a bodypart only once a week when trying to bulk up previously. I am Natural, so maybe the recovery wouldnt allow me to bench or squat 3 times a week or so.

 

[Protobuilder]

I have usually worked a bodypart only once a week when trying to bulk up previously. I am Natural, so maybe the recovery wouldnt allow me to bench or squat 3 times a week or so.

One thing I've learned from this site and the 5x5 program -- you CAN work a muscle more frequently than once a week. It all depends on the workload. For instance, you can do 50 sets of legs on Monday but most people can't handle that work more than once a week. BUT, if you do 5 sets of legs on MOnday, you'll probably have enough recovery abilities to let you do 5 more sets on Wed., and again on Friday. You can't control your recovery ability, but you can control the workload. If you do it right, you can lift more frequently.

 

[Unit 2005]

One thing I've learned from this site and the 5x5 program -- you CAN work a muscle more frequently than once a week. It all depends on the workload. For instance, you can do 50 sets of legs on Monday but most people can't handle that work more than once a week. BUT, if you do 5 sets of legs on MOnday, you'll probably have enough recovery abilities to let you do 5 more sets on Wed., and again on Friday. You can't control your recovery ability, but you can control the workload. If you do it right, you can lift more frequently.

Yeah id probably go along with that point. Do you think you beneifit more from working a muscle with a compund lift (eg legs with squats) and then hitting the muscle from different angles to target different parts fo the muscle group, eg leg presses, leg extensions, leg curls, stiff legged deadlifts, calf raises etc??

Also, if i were to lift on the big 3 using a traditional mon, wed, fir split, do you think it is possible to lift for say 5 x 5 heavy?

 

[Protobuilder]

Do you think you beneifit more from working a muscle with a compund lift (eg legs with squats) and then hitting the muscle from different angles to target different parts fo the muscle group, eg leg presses, leg extensions, leg curls, stiff legged deadlifts, calf raises etc??

I personally like keeping it short and simple -- ass to grass squats, 3x/wk. per the 5x5 program. I don't think you need all those add'l exercises. That's my opinion. Depends on your goals. Others have done well and gotten big doing tons of exercises/sets, etc. Just remember -- you've got to control the overall workload or you'll be back to working your muscle only once/wk.

Also, if i were to lift on the big 3 using a traditional mon, wed, fir split, do you think it is possible to lift for say 5 x 5 heavy?

If you mean squat, bench, and dead 3x/wk. then probably not b/c even the 5x5 doesn't have you deadlifting more than once/wk. From what I've read, 3x/wk. deads is too frequent; it's usually not advised. But, most people can bench, squat, and row 5 heavy sets of 5 reps and do this 3x/wk. w/ no problems. Have you read the basic 5x5 layouts?

 

[bignate73]

wide, narrow, partial, etc...too much variety, not enough intensity.

pick an exercise, and a foot position and work it. then the next workout pick a different one (if you must) and work that one.

example:

PL wide squat to parallel (deep as it goes generally)
Ass to floor squats closer stance
deadlift

pick 3-4 as biggt said and work them. basically the premise should be "go deep not wide", and I say that from an exercise selection standpoint (not foot position). meaning, pick something and take it to the limits, don't spread yourself out with a multitude of specificity. pick a multijoint movement, work it. pick the accessory/isolation work to help that movement get better. you'll get the most gains that way.

for growth you have a couple options:

focus more on the negative: which will lengthen your needed recovery time, thus less workouts for that muscle group.

focus more on strength with a controlled negative: less soreness but more frequent workouts.

 

[Protobuilder]

pick something and take it to the limits, don't spread yourself out with a multitude of specificity. pick a multijoint movement, work it. pick the accessory/isolation work to help that movement get better. you'll get the most gains that way.

Nice. Short and sweet.

 

[Unit 2005]

Will read the 5 x 5 programme now. Before i do, this is the routine i was planning on doing. Not set in stone or anything yet, but will probably end up looking like a 5 day routine, weekends off totally.

Monday - Legs
(1) Squats - 5 x 5-15
(2) Leg press - 3 x 10,8,6
(3) Leg Extensions - 3 x 10, 12, 15
(4) Calf Raises - 3 x 10,12,15

Tuesday - Chest & Triceps
(1) Bench press - 5 x 5-12
(2) Incline press - 3 x 10,8,6
(3) D/b press - 3 x 10,8,6
(4) Dips - 3 x 10
(5) CG bench press - 3 x 10,8,6
(6) Skullcrushers - 3 x 10,8,6

Wednesday - Back & Bis
(1) Deads - 5 x 5-10
(2) BB rows - 3 sets
(3) Chins - 3 sets
(4) BB Curls - 3 sets
(5) DB curls - 3 sets
(6) Hammer curls - 3 sets

Thursday - Delts & Traps
(1) BB press - 5 sets
(2) Seated DB press - 3 sets
(3) Side laterals - 3 sets
(4) Upright rows - 3 sets
(5) Shrugs

Friday - Legs&abs
(1) Squats - 5 sets
(2) Leg curls - 5 sets
(3) Stiff legged deads - 3 sets
(4) abs - 3 sets
(5) dif ab exercise - 3 sets
(6) dif ab/core exercise - 3 sets

Any thoughts? too much volume? (over the 5 days i mean) im thinking, short sharp workouts, more over the week but less in one session. Hopefully in and out of gym in under an hour....then home to eat like a machine!

????

 

[anotherbutters]

What's the point in asking for advice if you're not going to listen to anything anybody has to say?

PICK A FEW COMPOUND MOVEMENTS AND WORK THEM. Throw out all the rest. You've throw in everything including the kitchen sink.

Take your chest day for example. You need to pick a big compound movement that you can shift a lot of weight with like flat bench and focus on progresively increasing the amount you lift from week to week. Try to add 5lbs per week using the same set/rep scheme until you stall. THAT'S what will get you stronger, NOT hitting your chest and triceps from every angle you can find an exercise for. When you stall, pick another set/rep scheme, drop the weight a bit and ramp up again.

The single factor 5x5 is good to use as an example:

Mon: Squat, bench and row, 5 sets of 5, ramping up to 1 heavy set where you attempt to set a PR in each exercise. This is the focus of the week.

Wed: Light squats, deads, overhead press, pullups. 4 sets of 5. This is a good combination of other exercises to compliment Mon and Fri's exercises.

Fri: Squat, bench and row, first 4 sets same as Monday, then do 3 reps at a weight 2-3% higher than Monday's PR weight.

Following Mon (this is the important bit): Take the weight for Friday's triple and try to set a PR by doing 5 reps with it.

Keep going like that. Keep the weight going up. It is this progression that gets you stronger. And if you eat enough to put on weight, you'll get bigger. Take all the enthusiasm you have for all those other exercises and channel it into a small number of exercises and put everything into them.

Your workouts don't have to be complicated.

 

[musketeer]

you are still planneing to it muscle groups only once per week which is a major drawback right from the start.

My routine is working SO well I can't believe it:

Mon
Power Snatch 5 x 2
Back Squat 5 x 5
Weighted Dip 5 x 5
Bent Row 5 x 5

Wed
Overhead Squat 5 x 2-4
Bench Press 5 x 3-5
Deadlifts 5 x 2
Chinups 5 x 5

Fri
Clean & Jerks 5 x 2
Front Squats 5 x 2-5
Dumbell Press (flat or inc.) 5 x 5 or 3 x 8
Rows 5 x 5

 

[blut wump]

This is mine from last week. Numbers are (sets x reps). Obviously, warmups and ramping to worksets additional.

Mon
Front Squat 5x3
Good Mornings 5x3
Hypers 4x15
Rev Hypers 4x15

Tue
Flat Bench 4x8
BB Row 4x8
DB Side Bends 3x8
Light Overhead Squat Practice

Thu
Low Box Squat 5x5
Power Shrugs with unracking bar from Knee Height 4x8
Chin-Grip Pulldowns 4x8
Reverse Hypers 4x15

Fri
Flat Bench 5x3 intended but ended up with 1x3 and 5 singles due to lack of strength on a new weight
DB Row 5x4
OHP 4x8
Needsize's Abs 5x5