Another 30 something heart failure

[maldorf]

So true! If more guys would do everything they could with their diet first, then training before using AAS, most would find they could go much further naturally than they thought. I see so many guys say they've "totally got their diet and training down" and they've stopped making gains (after 18 months total of training), so it must be they need AAS.

Ask these 6' tall 170 lbs. monsters about their diet and they're barely managing to get 150-200 grams of protein a day. They think they're taking in 4000-5000 cals/day...turns out it's more like 3000. But, they've mastered their diet and there's nothing more that can be done. (lol)

People are all too quick to jump on AAS before eating more and more food (protein esp.) and constantly evaluating their training in conjunction with their eating. Of course you can't tell them a fucking thing because they know it all already.

Sorry...got carried away. I'll stop now. lol.

I wasnt one of those kids either, and things still ended this way for me. I lifted naturally from the age of 15 to 29, so about 14 yrs. I had pretty much maxed out my potential I believe. By using aas I was able to build more muscle and strength, but found myself every year getting more and more radical with its usage. You keep hitting plateaus and thats when you resort to using more and more. I used for about 10 yrs off and on.
My diet was pretty decent really, but I ate a whole lot of meat. Mostly chicken and tuna. I would eat red meat about 2 meals per week only. I ate lots of veggies and the past year I also took in plenty of fruits.
One thing that I ignored was my low HDL. My LDL was always low, but the HDL was too. My hematocrit was high a lot too, so high that they wouldnt even take my blood at the blood bank. Looking back I should have seen the signs and stop using completely.

 

[redsamurai]

what did your heaviest cycle look like?

I wasnt one of those kids either, and things still ended this way for me. I lifted naturally from the age of 15 to 29, so about 14 yrs. I had pretty much maxed out my potential I believe. By using aas I was able to build more muscle and strength, but found myself every year getting more and more radical with its usage. You keep hitting plateaus and thats when you resort to using more and more. I used for about 10 yrs off and on.
My diet was pretty decent really, but I ate a whole lot of meat. Mostly chicken and tuna. I would eat red meat about 2 meals per week only. I ate lots of veggies and the past year I also took in plenty of fruits.
One thing that I ignored was my low HDL. My LDL was always low, but the HDL was too. My hematocrit was high a lot too, so high that they wouldnt even take my blood at the blood bank. Looking back I should have seen the signs and stop using completely.

 

[ceo]

that food they eat is probably what's more responsible for health problems down the road than AAS, although it does exacerbate things. It's very hard to eat 300-400 grams of protein a day without eating too much of the animal proteins which are great short term for building muscle, but they build up in your system.....blood stream, colon..etc.

I'm wondering lately if eating more plant proteins is not only healthier but may in fact be superior......the problem is just getting enough of em. The proteins may be more complete, but less available.....I dunno. What I've read lately about what they're discovering about the nutrients in high density plants makes me wonder. Chlorophyll is of particular interest......it's virtually identical to human blood except it's centered around magnesium I beleive, where human blood is based off iron.

Or maybe you should keep eating meat but just fast more often so you negate any buildup...... I dunno, but what we've been fed by the bb'ing and supplement industry on dietary needs is bullshit.

plant proteins are a poor choice for building muscle. Of course along with a high protein diet, one should be taking digestive aids and enzymes, such as bromelain, and probiotics. Plenty of fiber from veggies and a supplement (metamucil, etc.) should also be added on high protein diets. You can vary your types of proteins as well. Fish being easier to digest than chicken, chicken easier than beef, avoiding dairy for the more health conscience, and on and on.

There are very healthy ways to do this lifestyle...people are just mostly ignorant, because hey, as long as I look good on the outside, that's all that really counts!

 

[redsamurai]

plant proteins !

why? I've read that some of the proteins in vegetation like kale and wheatgrass may actually be superior as they are a more complete amino acid chain. This could be wrong, I'm just relating something I've read.

 

[maldorf]

what did your heaviest cycle look like?

Average traditional cycle really wasnt too much different than many on here. I did experiment in the last 2 years with "blast cylces" where I would run 2x the normal level but it only lasts 4-6 weeks then youre off for 4-6.

 

[gjohnson5]

that food they eat is probably what's more responsible for health problems down the road than AAS, although it does exacerbate things. It's very hard to eat 300-400 grams of protein a day without eating too much of the animal proteins which are great short term for building muscle, but they build up in your system.....blood stream, colon..etc.

I'm wondering lately if eating more plant proteins is not only healthier but may in fact be superior......the problem is just getting enough of em. The proteins may be more complete, but less available.....I dunno. What I've read lately about what they're discovering about the nutrients in high density plants makes me wonder. Chlorophyll is of particular interest......it's virtually identical to human blood except it's centered around magnesium I beleive, where human blood is based off iron.

Or maybe you should keep eating meat but just fast more often so you negate any buildup...... I dunno, but what we've been fed by the bb'ing and supplement industry on dietary needs is bullshit.

Several issues
1. Most of the "hype" surrounding saturated fats IMHO is myth especially in the cases of coconut and cacao. Those saturated fat will boost metabolism and reduce cholesterol if anything. Most of the fat issues should be centered around processed fats such as hydrogenated and trans fats.

2. The PDCAAS of vegetable proteins makes them inferior to egg , milk, chicken or even red meats. IMHO a balanced diet is still the best way to go

3. I agree that supplement companies are in it for the money. But the pharmaceutical companies are in it for sales as well. The FDA approving harmful drugs makes things worse. I would rather take OTC supplements to reduce my cholesterol then statins anyday. The supplements are less harmful

 

[redsamurai]

Several issues

2. The PDCAAS of vegetable proteins makes them inferior to egg , milk, chicken or even red meats. IMHO a balanced diet is still the best way to go

what are pdcaas?

 

[gjohnson5]

what are pdcaas?

Protein Digestible Corrected Amino Acid Score.

It used to be called the biological Value. But it is a measure of the bioavilability and digestibility of proteins. Egg is the most biologically available and useable protein to the human body. Milk is second

 

[guest username]

Most of the "hype" surrounding saturated fats IMHO is myth especially in the cases of coconut and cacao. Those saturated fat will boost metabolism and reduce cholesterol if anything. Most of the fat issues should be centered around processed fats such as hydrogenated and trans fats.

Someone might argue that your assertion is also myth. Not arguing, just saying.

3. I agree that supplement companies are in it for the money. But the pharmaceutical companies are in it for sales as well. The FDA approving harmful drugs makes things worse. I would rather take OTC supplements to reduce my cholesterol then statins anyday. The supplements are less harmful

The problem with supplements is that they haven't really been studied well enough to support them having less side effects and showing that they actually work. Supplements might be less harmful probably because they don't work as well. Unfortunately, we won't see supplements being studied unless the government funds the studies. There isn't enough money in sales for supplement companies or drug companies to fund the research. Most of the research on supplements comes from overseas, particularly Germany.

Don't get me wrong... many supplements do work, and many of our pharmaceutical medicines are based on natural compounds that were once used as supplements. (Statins are based on yeast extract, Co-Artem is based on artemesin, etc.)

 

[gjohnson5]

Someone might argue that your assertion is also myth. Not arguing, just saying.

Yez , avoidz teh saturated fatz

I'll address the saturated fat issue later...

The problem with supplements is that they haven't really been studied well enough to support them having less side effects and showing that they actually work.

And this is opposed to the studies being paid for by pharmaceutical companies who are intentionally withholding information that would show the harm many of these drugs can do?

But your point about studies is interesting. So you've looked at the clinical data on normal calorie diets w/elevated fat content and still believe saturated fats are bad??? Based on what I've read obesity is mainly based on calories. But if you have some data that suggests a 2000 calorie diet with elevated saturated fats causes obesity , I'd like to read it. I don't believe any real evidence to that effect exists.

Anyway Pharma companies pay for studies to get results favorable to their drugs. This means there is a bais for sales. The health of the individual is not the issue in those cases.