Training to failure

[oso0960]

We know that GENERALLY:
Low reps (~1-3) Heavy weight (~>90%) = Strength
Moderate reps (~8-12) Moderate weight (~70%) = Hypertrophy
High reps (~20+) Light weight (~<60%) = Local muscular endurance

(these numbers are not EXACT, but to give you an idea of what I'm talking about.)

Now to the question:

I've been doing chinups 3 x failure. This is what my chin reps look like: 1x10, 1x6, 1x4 all to failure. What exactly does each set improve on the most? Hypertrophy, strength, muscle endurance?

 

[SaiBoT]

3xfailure with weights or not?

 

[gjohnson5]

We know that GENERALLY:
Low reps (~1-3) Heavy weight (~>90%) = Strength
Moderate reps (~8-12) Moderate weight (~70%) = Hypertrophy
High reps (~20+) Light weight (~<60%) = Local muscular endurance

(these numbers are not EXACT, but to give you an idea of what I'm talking about.)

Now to the question:

I've been doing chinups 3 x failure. This is what my chin reps look like: 1x10, 1x6, 1x4 all to failure. What exactly does each set improve on the most? Hypertrophy, strength, muscle endurance?

Combination of 1 and 2
High reps low weight should be done if your having tendinitis or other joint / connective tissue problems from lifting heavy. The only place high reps are really needed is Military PT or as a variation to the other 2 strategies

But to be honest I think high reps do have a place in burning fat. "Toning" as in myofibular tone (the muscle looks and feels rock solid even when relaxed) will not increase with high rep training , but oxidizing fat is doable with high reps.

If myofibular tone is wanted I would mix high intensity and moderate rep high volume

 

[oso0960]

3xfailure with weights or not?

Well I can't personally use weights on chins and get those numbers. Would it matter anyway?

@Gjohnson5 - Thanks for the reply

 

[SaiBoT]

Well I can't personally use weights on chins and get those numbers. Would it matter anyway?

@Gjohnson5 - Thanks for the reply

The rest in between sets matters because, if your able to do 10 reps to failure on the first set, you should rest long enough at least to get 9 more reps in the next set and 8 on the last one.

So your total reps for the workout would 27 instead of the initial 20.

I prefer to stay one rep away of failure most of the times or at least not going to failure on the first set. Do you do any kind of warm up?

Now to answer your question: Since you are not using any weights loading parameters does not apply... since you are able to do 10 reps you are working on the hypertrophy area, but one set 10 is not enough to see signifcant gains the consequent set of six is not doing anything for your strength and neither those the last of 4 reps because your are not resting enough to complete more reps and you are not increasing your weight. That's why I asked if you were using weights for those rep ranges.

 

[oso0960]

The rest in between sets matters because, if your able to do 10 reps to failure on the first set, you should rest long enough at least to get 9 more reps in the next set and 8 on the last one.

So your total reps for the workout would 27 instead of the initial 20.

I prefer to stay one rep away of failure most of the times or at least not going to failure on the first set. Do you do any kind of warm up?

Now to answer your question: Since you are not using any weights loading parameters does not apply... since you are able to do 10 reps you are working on the hypertrophy area, but one set 10 is not enough to see signifcant gains the consequent set of six is not doing anything for your strength and neither those the last of 4 reps because your are not resting enough to complete more reps and you are not increasing your weight. That's why I asked if you were using weights for those rep ranges.

Very informative.

Rest is as long as possible, maybe 5 minutes between each set. The reason is because I've been doing ATG 20 rep squats first which drain the hell out of me.

I also usually train 1 to 2 reps before failure and this is actually the first time I've ever trained to failure. The reason I trained to failure was to find out exactly how many reps (20) I could do with 3 sets so my next workout could try for 1 more (21) in a sets across fashion (ex. 7, 7, 7) and then build up (ex. 7, 7, 8)

When I trained to failure and my reps dropped considerably throughout the 3 sets, it led me to ask this question since each attempt was to failure.

 

[snakeryu]

I stopped training to failure was getting no where but weaker. I finally started listening to my body, you want to tire out the muscle your working out not the whole body(CNS). I don't really don't pay so much attention of how high or reps, sets or how heavy the weight is anymore. As long as I'm stressing that particular muscle it will grow stronger. I use failure once in a while just to measure my performance. Just try many different things. My opinion is that you shouldn't do failure because you will be wasting more time if you plan on resting for 5 min.

 

[desmond]

I don't do chins now, but I use to have the same issue with you that my reps would decreased each set to failure. However, I now realise I did them with poor form and despite doing 5x25kg(weighted) wide pull ups at 68kg at one stage, and I had no back.

 

[the_alcatraz]

We know that GENERALLY:
Low reps (~1-3) Heavy weight (~>90%) = Strength
Moderate reps (~8-12) Moderate weight (~70%) = Hypertrophy
High reps (~20+) Light weight (~<60%) = Local muscular endurance

(these numbers are not EXACT, but to give you an idea of what I'm talking about.)

Now to the question:

I've been doing chinups 3 x failure. This is what my chin reps look like: 1x10, 1x6, 1x4 all to failure. What exactly does each set improve on the most? Hypertrophy, strength, muscle endurance?

are you doing weighed chinups with those low reps?

your analysis above is correct IMO

 

[lockdownd7]

I stopped training to failure was getting no where but weaker. I finally started listening to my body, you want to tire out the muscle your working out not the whole body(CNS). I don't really don't pay so much attention of how high or reps, sets or how heavy the weight is anymore. As long as I'm stressing that particular muscle it will grow stronger. I use failure once in a while just to measure my performance. Just try many different things. My opinion is that you shouldn't do failure because you will be wasting more time if you plan on resting for 5 min.

Agreed. Especially with chins/pull ups, training to failure is counterproductive. You need lots of neural stimulation to get better at bodyweight tasks like that (Pavel's GTG), and training to failure just leads to excessive fatigue that weakens performance on later efforts, not to mention establishes a neural pattern of failure.