How cum Barry doesn't send teh drones after their arses?

[javaguru]

First, was Vietnam really a threat to our national security? We had advisors in Vietnam way before 1961. The CIA were advising the French in 1954. The CIA built the French a military garrison at Dien Bien Phu. The French refused to listen to the CIA, so they did not utilize the garrison. Consequently, the Viet Minh used the garrison the CIA built and slaughtered the French. For the record, the CIA's intel was absolutely perfect during the Vietnam Conflict. You have to give them Ivy League pukes their props when it comes to the Vietnam Conflict. However, the bureaucrats did not listen because they did not want to win that war.

Do you really believe the Domino Effect Theory was true?? Do you really know the real reason why we went overt in Indo-China? Hint, I already gave you the story they sold to the American people. Do you really believe the Soviets were really that big of a threat? Tell us a little about the Military-Industrial Complex. Tell us a little about "missle gap" philosophy. Tell us why fear mongering (McCarthyism) was allowed by the United States Government for a while. If you are capable, discern Kennan's "Containment Policy." What was the United State's policy on the Cold War? What was the proverbial Cold War really about? What is your take on the Cold War? I believe it was just a "theatre of war."

Compare and contrast the indigenous people of Africa to the indigenous people of Vietnam. You make it sound like the Vietnamese made their own military armaments.Moreover, you are making it quite clear nobody is backing the Africans, are you really sure?? I suppose the Viet Minh had the resources to make .50 cals and RPG's?? Are you sure the Viet Minh were not just little yellow skinned people hiding underground equipped with spears and rocks?? That is basically how you describe the people you say the Marines fought, "little brown skinned people." I love the racist undertones. I am sure the Vietnamese were well advanced in chemistry unlike these Africans, that is your persuasion, right? I am curious to know what your definition is of a "third world" country? It has nothing to do with being underdeveloped.

Your comparison of terrorism deaths to automobile deaths is awful. All you did was justify terrorsim. There are 300 million Americans, how many people drive a vehicle? The ones who do not drive probably are transported by a vehicle. This is an everyday perpetual occurrence, even if there was a terrorist attack or attempt everyday the death toll would not remotely come close to vehicular deaths unless they used nuclear weapons. One of the worst comparisons I have ever read especially coming from a so called historian. Evidently, Homeland Security has been doing an outstanding job preventing terrorist attacks. Therefore, why would you make such a ridiculous comparison? Are you trying to say terrorism is not a serious threat??

Your entire post is suspect. I am a little skeptical about your history aptitude and your geopolitical views. I thought you had a M.A. in History? You have called me out on numerous occasions to back my claims and I did! It is your turn, I am calling you out to explain your position. I have not victimized you lately, but I am willing. I caught five bodies this week, please be #6.

I wrote my undergrad thesis on how and why the United States became involved in Vietnam.

To make a long thesis short it was because the United States banked on the future of a democratic China, hence their place on the UN Security Council, and a non communist France; After the fall of China to communism the United States doubled down in Vietnam because of the political instability in France. The "Domino Theory" was just a manufactured justification to continue a war with no strategic purpose...France had stabilized....unless you consider Haiphong harbor being used as a military base by the Soviet Navy a major strategic reason for fighting an undeclared war costing tens of thousands of lives? Finally, the CIA's assassination of Diem sealed the fate of the war...just sayin... If you want the BMV of the feds running foreign policy then advocate for an imperial presidency.

The more the United States acts as the worlds dictator the more the world resents the United States. If you want to pursue an American hegemony then you will have the system as it exists today. Read, "The Pursuit of Power", by William McNeill..it was a textbook in my history of European warfare class (graduate level) and traces the military industrial complex from Babylon to the 20th century.

Even your heroes in the CIA claim terrorism is "blow back" based on U.S. foreign policy; But for United States foreign policy there would not have been a Sept. 11 attack or any of the "homegrown" attacks following.

My greatest strength as an analyst is that I have studied multiple disciplines and I can call on my science and math training to analyze the "hard issues" while understanding the "soft issues" of history and the social sciences. Statistics are pretty straightforward...you were more likely to die in a freak accident (not auto...shark attack) or a rare condition (flesh eating bacteria) than die in a terrorist attack in the United States. I'm pretty sure dying from a bee sting or falling in your home have created more casualties than terrorist attacks before homeland security existed.

Ledhead, if you want to soil your panties because some incompetent that hates America might finally be able to detonate a device that kills a handful of people...Really? We've lost more military personnel fighting 9/11 than people who died in 9/11.

Finally, I'll put on my lawyerin hat...

Homeland security finds a kid that may hate America and recruits him into a plot of jihad...They arrest him and he gets sentenced to decades in prison even though he had no chance of actually pulling off the plot he was encouraged to engage in...because he happened to hate policy and the feds are looking for people with a political view..

I'll put my math hat back on...you are no safer now than before 9/11. All the legitimate plots were either foiled by the incompetence of the perpetrator or completed(Ft. Hood,underwear bomber, Times Square bomber); Where was your big government?

We've had presidents assassinated by terrorists and not reacted like this...

 

[brownbrown]

It never amazes me on how oblivious people are to what‘s going on in the world. Watching Fox news and thinking its news.

America has been in eastern Africa for over a decade. Dropping bombs and performing operations.
You guys are in here debating 10 year old shit.
Somalia has been bombed, and Ethiopia has been bombed. Debating POTUS’ approval to move 200 miles south west is fucking stupid.

And now you guys have JAVA saying that America acts as the worlds dictator, HOLY FUCKING CROCK OF LIBRITARIAN SHIT.
I don't even know why I even opened this shit....

 

[mrplunkey]

It never amazes me on how oblivious people are to what‘s going on in the world. Watching Fox news and thinking its news.

America has been in eastern Africa for over a decade. Dropping bombs and performing operations.
You guys are in here debating 10 year old shit.
Somalia has been bombed, and Ethiopia has been bombed. Debating POTUS’ approval to move 200 miles south west is fucking stupid.

And now you guys have JAVA saying that America acts as the worlds dictator, HOLY FUCKING CROCK OF LIBRITARIAN SHIT.
I don't even know why I even opened this shit....

u mad?

 

[ledhead]

I wrote my undergrad thesis on how and why the United States became involved in Vietnam.

To make a long thesis short it was because the United States banked on the future of a democratic China, hence their place on the UN Security Council, and a non communist France; After the fall of China to communism the United States doubled down in Vietnam because of the political instability in France. The "Domino Theory" was just a manufactured justification to continue a war with no strategic purpose...France had stabilized....unless you consider Haiphong harbor being used as a military base by the Soviet Navy a major strategic reason for fighting an undeclared war costing tens of thousands of lives? Finally, the CIA's assassination of Diem sealed the fate of the war...just sayin... If you want the BMV of the feds running foreign policy then advocate for an imperial presidency.

The more the United States acts as the worlds dictator the more the world resents the United States. If you want to pursue an American hegemony then you will have the system as it exists today. Read, "The Pursuit of Power", by William McNeill..it was a textbook in my history of European warfare class (graduate level) and traces the military industrial complex from Babylon to the 20th century.

Even your heroes in the CIA claim terrorism is "blow back" based on U.S. foreign policy; But for United States foreign policy there would not have been a Sept. 11 attack or any of the "homegrown" attacks following.

My greatest strength as an analyst is that I have studied multiple disciplines and I can call on my science and math training to analyze the "hard issues" while understanding the "soft issues" of history and the social sciences. Statistics are pretty straightforward...you were more likely to die in a freak accident (not auto...shark attack) or a rare condition (flesh eating bacteria) than die in a terrorist attack in the United States. I'm pretty sure dying from a bee sting or falling in your home have created more casualties than terrorist attacks before homeland security existed.

Ledhead, if you want to soil your panties because some incompetent that hates America might finally be able to detonate a device that kills a handful of people...Really? We've lost more military personnel fighting 9/11 than people who died in 9/11.

Finally, I'll put on my lawyerin hat...

Homeland security finds a kid that may hate America and recruits him into a plot of jihad...They arrest him and he gets sentenced to decades in prison even though he had no chance of actually pulling off the plot he was encouraged to engage in...because he happened to hate policy and the feds are looking for people with a political view..

I'll put my math hat back on...you are no safer now than before 9/11. All the legitimate plots were either foiled by the incompetence of the perpetrator or completed(Ft. Hood,underwear bomber, Times Square bomber); Where was your big government?

We've had presidents assassinated by terrorists and not reacted like this...

Thesis: The recolonization of Southeast Asia. You probably would have received an A if this was your thesis.

I take it you do not dig my apocalyptic assertions?? Yeah, it is true, I do have "blue blood." It appears, you have "bright red blood." I have a picture of the "Mayflower" hanging on the wall in my living room.

No, I never jusified Vietnam, you justified it in your first post in this thread. Now you are trying to recant your original position. That is the reason I called you out! The "Domino Theory" was an artificial front to garner public support to go overt in Vietnam. The Gulf of Tonkin incident "probably" never occurred. Many historians believe the whole thing was staged to whip-up public supppot to go overt in Nam. Evidently, you do not understand the difference between imperialism and neocolonialism. You say the U.S. doubled down in Vietnam because of political instability in France, I really do not know about that one. Why did the U.S. go overt in Korea?? Do you really believe it had do with stopping communism from spreading?? Was Diem better than Bao Dai or any of the other puppet presidents the agency put into power??? Your defintion of the Domino Effect is real scanty, come again.

Does the CIA feel responsible for creating terrorsim? Why? Did it have to do with them putting "the shah" to the throne in 1953? Do any of these events have to do with "multinationalism"? It does not matter, you still justified terrorsim.. and still cannot fill in the blanks.

I know the answers to the Cold War, so it is kind of not fair, but I want to check your knowledge. I think you just know surface stuff, and not the ins and outs. I will give you some hints. In 1945, the U.S. had 5% of the worlds population and between 50-60% of the worlds wealth. During that time the U.S. was the only country in the world to possess the "atomic bomb." Do you really believe communism was a real threat to America? I have the answers and will post them, I want to see if you can decode this. Does it have to with George Kennan's realpolitik view? What was America's Cold War policy? Check out, National Security Council, Paper Number 68. How does the Marshall Plan and the Truman Doctrine relate to recolonization of Southeast Asia (Korean, Vietnam Wars)? Very important!

I do not need to read about the Military Industrial Complex, you need to explain America's philosophy behind it. You need to explain the United State's motives behind the "missle gap" theory.

Hang your math and lawyer hats, your post is loaded with conjecture and self assertions. Not enough certainties and probabilities in your post. Answer my questions, I gave you more hints than I give my kids.

 

[javaguru]

LOL at conflating the short lived nuclear dominance of the United States; The Soviets not only detonated a nuclear bomb shortly after but made it clear they had almost instantaneous access to US funded research; It also shows you have a complete lack of knowledge of logistics. The Soviet Union had the logistical capability to overwhelm all of Europe and most of Asia thanks to US supplied locomotives and trucks but they chose to respect their boundaries and establish "buffer states."

China was supposed to be the next great ally of the west against communism and after the fall of China to communism the United States redoubled their efforts to stem the spread of communism in Asia; It wasn't rational anymore than the cold war against Japan pre-WWII.

Like I stated, the United States took over Vietnam after Dien Bien Phu as part of the Marshal Plan to rebuild Europe because a failure of French colonial policy would destabilize the government....This is common knowledge...

If you want to understand US military policy post WWII....

 

[javaguru]

It never amazes me on how oblivious people are to what‘s going on in the world. Watching Fox news and thinking its news.

America has been in eastern Africa for over a decade. Dropping bombs and performing operations.
You guys are in here debating 10 year old shit.
Somalia has been bombed, and Ethiopia has been bombed. Debating POTUS’ approval to move 200 miles south west is fucking stupid.

And now you guys have JAVA saying that America acts as the worlds dictator, HOLY FUCKING CROCK OF LIBRITARIAN SHIT.
I don't even know why I even opened this shit....

IMO, after the Cold War ended the Bureaucrats had nothing to do...their purpose in life was demonizing communism...what happens after communism has clearly failed...It became about religion... The time old divider of humanity...The United States chose to support Israel over the Palestinians and occupy Muslim holy lands...not our business.

I understand U.S. Foreign policy during the cold war but post cold war foreign policy has been the same...Free trade and no intervention unless there is a direct foreign policy issue involved would be a better objective.

"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations — entangling alliances with none." ~ Thomas Jefferson

 

[javaguru]

My favorite founding father on the role of government....
"About to enter, fellow citizens, on the exercise of duties which comprehend everything dear and valuable to you, it is proper that you should understand what I deem the essential principles of our government, and consequently those which ought to shape its administration. I will compress them within the narrowest compass they will bear, stating the general principle, but not all its limitations. Equal and exact justice to all men, of whatever state or persuasion, religious or political; peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations — entangling alliances with none; the support of the State governments in all their rights, as the most competent administrations for our domestic concerns and the surest bulwarks against anti-republican tendencies; the preservation of the general government in its whole constitutional vigor, as the sheet anchor of our peace at home and safety abroad; a jealous care of the right of election by the people — a mild and safe corrective of abuses which are lopped by the sword of the revolution where peaceable remedies are unprovided; absolute acquiescence in the decisions of the majority — the vital principle of republics, from which there is no appeal but to force, the vital principle and immediate parent of despotism; a well-disciplined militia — our best reliance in peace and for the first moments of war, till regulars may relieve them; the supremacy of the civil over the military authority; economy in the public expense, that labor may be lightly burdened; the honest payment of our debts and sacred preservation of the public faith; encouragement of agriculture, and of commerce as its handmaid; the diffusion of information and the arraignment of all abuses at the bar of public reason; freedom of religion; freedom of the press; freedom of person under the protection of the habeas corpus; and trial by juries impartially selected — these principles form the bright constellation which has gone before us, and guided our steps through an age of revolution and reformation."
- Thomas Jefferson

 

[ledhead]

LOL at conflating the short lived nuclear dominance of the United States; The Soviets not only detonated a nuclear bomb shortly after but made it clear they had almost instantaneous access to US funded research; It also shows you have a complete lack of knowledge of logistics. The Soviet Union had the logistical capability to overwhelm all of Europe and most of Asia thanks to US supplied locomotives and trucks but they chose to respect their boundaries and establish "buffer states."

China was supposed to be the next great ally of the west against communism and after the fall of China to communism the United States redoubled their efforts to stem the spread of communism in Asia; It wasn't rational anymore than the cold war against Japan pre-WWII.

Like I stated, the United States took over Vietnam after Dien Bien Phu as part of the Marshal Plan to rebuild Europe because a failure of French colonial policy would destabilize the government....This is common knowledge...

If you want to understand US military policy post WWII....

The Soviets detonated their first bomb in 1949, four years after we did. That is hardly a "short" time when it comes to a battle for world dominance... The Soviets made it loud and clear they had access to U.S. funded research, lololol.... that would be called "missle gap," which you failed to figure out, again! Missle Gap was totally misleading. The fundamental reason for "missle gap" was to make your enemy think you had more bombs then them (theatre of war).. lol. A simultaneous bluff..

No, re-check the thread, you never mentioned the Marshall Plan, I gave that to you... Lol@ the Soviets respected anything or anybody.. What about the Berlin Airlift?? What about Stalin killing 31 million of his own countrymen? What about the Soviets abusing the people in the Eastern Bloc? They were nothing less than down trodden, thanks to the Soviets. Yeah, real respectful.. There is 4 yrs missing from your thesis that is crucial (1945-49). Why was China supposed to become our next great ally? You failed to answer my questions again because you are not capable..

You reverted back to using the "Domino Effect" as the reason to go overt in Vietnam. In your last post you agreed with me it was an artificial front to garner public support to go overt in Nam (multinationalism)..lol again.. You never answered why we went overt in Korea??? Very Important! What are you talking about Cold War against Japan pre-WWII? We supplied them with most of the material they needed to make war armaments, so they could enter WWII, and colinize Viet Nam, China, and Korea...and they did until the Marines fucked them up!

Bro, you whole post is seriously bad (no potshot). I can go on and on, but you refuse to answer my questions because you think I am using circumvention, I honestly am not.. All you did was assume, speculate, and use aphorisms to avoid expounding your thesis.. No certainties, some probabilities, no decisive, clear thesis. A whole lot of vacilating! Then you never answered the theory behind the Military Industrial Complex. Never answered any of the questions about the Middle East.

That video of Ike tells all....lol. I am sure Ike would have disclosed the "real" United State's National Security policy to the American people... you are being willfully naive..

 

[ledhead]

My favorite founding father on the role of government....
"About to enter, fellow citizens, on the exercise of duties which comprehend everything dear and valuable to you, it is proper that you should understand what I deem the essential principles of our government, and consequently those which ought to shape its administration. I will compress them within the narrowest compass they will bear, stating the general principle, but not all its limitations. Equal and exact justice to all men, of whatever state or persuasion, religious or political; peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations — entangling alliances with none; the support of the State governments in all their rights, as the most competent administrations for our domestic concerns and the surest bulwarks against anti-republican tendencies; the preservation of the general government in its whole constitutional vigor, as the sheet anchor of our peace at home and safety abroad; a jealous care of the right of election by the people — a mild and safe corrective of abuses which are lopped by the sword of the revolution where peaceable remedies are unprovided; absolute acquiescence in the decisions of the majority — the vital principle of republics, from which there is no appeal but to force, the vital principle and immediate parent of despotism; a well-disciplined militia — our best reliance in peace and for the first moments of war, till regulars may relieve them; the supremacy of the civil over the military authority; economy in the public expense, that labor may be lightly burdened; the honest payment of our debts and sacred preservation of the public faith; encouragement of agriculture, and of commerce as its handmaid; the diffusion of information and the arraignment of all abuses at the bar of public reason; freedom of religion; freedom of the press; freedom of person under the protection of the habeas corpus; and trial by juries impartially selected — these principles form the bright constellation which has gone before us, and guided our steps through an age of revolution and reformation."
- Thomas Jefferson

I like Jefferson myself. However, he was part of the hypocrisy himself. He hated the "Central Bank." He thought it was a European socialist idea, which he wanted to splinter. That is why Jefferson and Hamilton hated one another. Anyway, he made the Lousiana Purchase, which I feel was the greatest economic transaction in the history of the U.S.. However, he withdrew the 15 million dollars to pay for the purchase out of the Central Bank, total hypocrisy! Moreover, he did not even get Congressional approval, he used executive power. Does that throw a wrench into the above declaration?

What about Jefferson implementing the Embargo Act, which caused a depression? What about him owning slaves?? I know historians say he hated slavery and could not do anything about abolitioning it, but it certainly did not stop him from exploiting slavery. After reading some of Jefferson's excerpts, I am not so sure he was in a hurry to abolish slavery nor do I really believe he felt blacks were white's equals. Maybe, a product of his time, I do not know?

I know one thing is for sure, He can never get with George Washington in any aspect of life. His IQ was probably higher than Washingtons, but that is all..

 

[javaguru]

The Soviets detonated their first bomb in 1949, four years after we did. That is hardly a "short" time when it comes to a battle for world dominance... The Soviets made it loud and clear they had access to U.S. funded research, lololol.... that would be called "missle gap," which you failed to figure out, again! Missle Gap was totally misleading. The fundamental reason for "missle gap" was to make your enemy think you had more bombs then them (theatre of war).. lol. A simultaneous bluff..

No, re-check the thread, you never mentioned the Marshall Plan, I gave that to you... Lol@ the Soviets respected anything or anybody.. What about the Berlin Airlift?? What about Stalin killing 31 million of his own countrymen? What about the Soviets abusing the people in the Eastern Bloc? They were nothing less than down trodden, thanks to the Soviets. Yeah, real respectful.. There is 4 yrs missing from your thesis that is crucial (1945-49). Why was China supposed to become our next great ally? You failed to answer my questions again because you are not capable..

I can only assume your analysis has been clouded by you apocalyptic Christian view of the world.

You reverted back to using the "Domino Effect" as the reason to go overt in Vietnam. In your last post you agreed with me it was an artificial front to garner public support to go overt in Nam (multinationalism)..lol again.. You never answered why we went overt in Korea??? Very Important! What are you talking about Cold War against Japan pre-WWII? We supplied them with most of the material they needed to make war armaments, so they could enter WWII, and colinize Viet Nam, China, and Korea...and they did until the Marines fucked them up!

Bro, you whole post is seriously bad (no potshot). I can go on and on, but you refuse to answer my questions because you think I am using circumvention, I honestly am not.. All you did was assume, speculate, and use aphorisms to avoid expounding your thesis.. No certainties, some probabilities, no decisive, clear thesis. A whole lot of vacilating! Then you never answered the theory behind the Military Industrial Complex. Never answered any of the questions about the Middle East.

That video of Ike tells all....lol. I am sure Ike would have disclosed the "real" United State's National Security policy to the American people... you are being willfully naive..

Really, you have a complete lack of knowledge when it comes to basic 20th century history. I shouldn't have to explain the United States Support of Chiang Kai Shek over the Communist Mao...You need to look at the steel and oil embargo over the "rape of Nanking" that lead to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

Considering that North Korea successfully detonated a primitive WWII era bomb, after detonating a nuke that was equivalent to a truckload of TNT.... and Iran that MIGHT detonate a WWII level device are considered major threats to United States security, roughly 60 years later...four years is pretty soon. Likewise, you're assuming nuclear arms are the same as conventional forces in deterrence. How many missiles did the United States have that could reach the Soviet Industrial centers in 1949 and how many fighting divisions? I'll answer my question about missiles...zero...How many divisions did the Soviet Union have to overrun Western Europe in 1949?

I can only assume your opinion is based on your apocalyptic Christian view of the world...