AP IMPACT: US drug war has met none of its goals

[javaguru]

But that happens regardless of drug use...

Sorry...I had to fix it.

 

[mrplunkey]

But that happens irregardless of drug use...

Evil! Evil I tell you!

lolololollolololo

 

[kx250rider]

I get pissed every time the media whine about how drugs are out of control, and how it's causing murders and taxing the law enforcement community to the limits.

JUST LEGALIZE AND TAX RECREATIONAL DRUGS! SELL POT TO ANYONE OVER 18 AT 7-11!!! Simple and easy, and we could pay off the national debt in no time, and we could re-assign the narcotics squad to catch rapists, arsonists, thieves and murderers like they're supposed to have the time to do. I don't know a single person on the whole planet who will suddenly start smoking pot, or snorting coke, or whatever, if the legalize it. No more than anyone ever stopped the habit because it's illegal. Prohibition in the 1920s didn't do a damn thing to stop alcohol, but it created whole new Mafia bootlegger organizations, and caused all kinds of law enforcement headaches and crimes.

I can say all the same about prostitution. Look at Nevada: The most hookers in the country, and the lowest STD rate (per CBS within the past year or so).

Charles

Now did you think you'd ever hear these words from a Bush-supporting, right wing conservative extremist such as me????

 

[mrplunkey]

I get pissed every time the media whine about how drugs are out of control, and how it's causing murders and taxing the law enforcement community to the limits.

JUST LEGALIZE AND TAX RECREATIONAL DRUGS! SELL POT TO ANYONE OVER 18 AT 7-11!!! Simple and easy, and we could pay off the national debt in no time, and we could re-assign the narcotics squad to catch rapists, arsonists, thieves and murderers like they're supposed to have the time to do. I don't know a single person on the whole planet who will suddenly start smoking pot, or snorting coke, or whatever, if the legalize it. No more than anyone ever stopped the habit because it's illegal. Prohibition in the 1920s didn't do a damn thing to stop alcohol, but it created whole new Mafia bootlegger organizations, and caused all kinds of law enforcement headaches and crimes.

I can say all the same about prostitution. Look at Nevada: The most hookers in the country, and the lowest STD rate (per CBS within the past year or so).

Charles

Now did you think you'd ever hear these words from a Bush-supporting, right wing conservative extremist such as me????

Using that logic, why not make the heavier stuff legal too? If someone can responsibly use coke or painkillers, why not dispense them at your local convenience store?

Also, alcohol is still illegal for teens. Why do we waste money on that either. Shouldn't they be able to drink at any age?

I'm feeling particularly contrarian today.

 

[kx250rider]

Using that logic, why not make the heavier stuff legal too? If someone can responsibly use coke or painkillers, why not dispense them at your local convenience store?

Also, alcohol is still illegal for teens. Why do we waste money on that either. Shouldn't they be able to drink at any age?

I'm feeling particularly contrarian today.

I think there are cases where teens could drink responsibly, and also there are cases where not-so-advanced adults shouldn't drink. Maybe it should be like getting a pilot's license, or a gun license in some states... No age restrictions, as long as you can pass the test proving you understand the ups and downs of drug use, and you qualify.

I think there are SOME drugs, such as Xanax, LSD, and many other hard drugs, which should remain illegal or severely restricted due to very sudden and powerful addictive and brain-damaging qualities. It is my theory that if we legalize pot to start with, then several other drugs that are popular (and steroids of course), the tax revenue from those sales would FAR more than pay for any damage done. You can't fix an idiot by writing a law, and you can't make someone smart by force. If someone is going to smoke crack and die, they're going to smoke crack and die. Period. If someone's not, they're not. I'm not, you sure sound too intelligent to do that either... So not to sound like an advocate of extermination of the derelict citizenry, such could be the result. Maybe if one speed freak drops of a heart attack, his/her speed freak friends will stop using it. If not, they will also drop of heart attacks, and in either scenario after awhile, there won't be speed freaks.

The very problem of smoking (tobacco) and alcohol, is that it's considered acceptable in some law-abiding circles of society, and it's not an instant killer. Smokers can rationalize by saying "I've smoked for 25 years, and I feel fine". Then in their 60s, they start falling apart, and wind up with a big plastic pipe where their throat used to be, and they can't work because they're too sick, and they're a burden on the rest of us. That to me is FAR MORE DAMNING to the lives of people, than to have one person in a group of friends die suddenly and set an example straight up and in the flesh, or what you can expect from drug abuse.

Charles

 

[mrplunkey]

$320B global business

Assume $250B is US (overestimating)

@50% tax rate (absurdly high) = $125B a year.

How does that address trillion dollar annual deficits?

I think there are cases where teens could drink responsibly, and also there are cases where not-so-advanced adults shouldn't drink. Maybe it should be like getting a pilot's license, or a gun license in some states... No age restrictions, as long as you can pass the test proving you understand the ups and downs of drug use, and you qualify.

I think there are SOME drugs, such as Xanax, LSD, and many other hard drugs, which should remain illegal or severely restricted due to very sudden and powerful addictive and brain-damaging qualities. It is my theory that if we legalize pot to start with, then several other drugs that are popular (and steroids of course), the tax revenue from those sales would FAR more than pay for any damage done. You can't fix an idiot by writing a law, and you can't make someone smart by force. If someone is going to smoke crack and die, they're going to smoke crack and die. Period. If someone's not, they're not. I'm not, you sure sound too intelligent to do that either... So not to sound like an advocate of extermination of the derelict citizenry, such could be the result. Maybe if one speed freak drops of a heart attack, his/her speed freak friends will stop using it. If not, they will also drop of heart attacks, and in either scenario after awhile, there won't be speed freaks.

The very problem of smoking (tobacco) and alcohol, is that it's considered acceptable in some law-abiding circles of society, and it's not an instant killer. Smokers can rationalize by saying "I've smoked for 25 years, and I feel fine". Then in their 60s, they start falling apart, and wind up with a big plastic pipe where their throat used to be, and they can't work because they're too sick, and they're a burden on the rest of us. That to me is FAR MORE DAMNING to the lives of people, than to have one person in a group of friends die suddenly and set an example straight up and in the flesh, or what you can expect from drug abuse.

Charles

 

[-SD-]

$320B global business

Assume $250B is US (overestimating)

@50% tax rate (absurdly high) = $125B a year.

How does that address trillion dollar annual deficits?

The social and benefits to the US CJ system is what pro-legalization should focus on. But saying there would be a huge tax revenue at least sounds good.

 

[mrplunkey]

The social and benefits to the US CJ system is what pro-legalization should focus on. But saying there would be a huge tax revenue at least sounds good.

I've heard the CJ argument before, but I look at it this way:

Drugs make a great reason to get criminals off the street.

Clearly not everyone who uses drugs is a criminal in other ways (I doubt even half of them are).

But how many habitual criminals also use drugs? I'd bet 85%+ do. (do you know of any habitual/career criminals who have a no-drug use policy?).

And I'd also go one step further: I hear about how clogged our jails are with convicted drug users. How many of them are there solely for minor possession charges? How many of them have a long shopping list of non-drug related crimes? I'd argue that those drug charges are a great way to keep would-be animals out of society.

If LE picks some guy up off the street for suspected robbery and turns-out to be on parole and have a priors sheet seven pages long, being able to bust him for simple possession and send him back to jail seems like a very convenient way to deal with a clogged criminal justice system.

Like I said earlier, I'm feeling contrarian today!



(you could easily win this discussion with a picture of Teh Jacket, but hopefully you won't resort to nukes)

 

[-SD-]

Interesting justice by proxy situation. But then we could easily say the vast majority of criminals, who, use drugs, also use/possess handguns. Therefore we must ban handguns. I would say at least the vast number of pot users arent also career criminals and we should at least start with legalization of MJ then gauge the effects on crime. My guess is crime may marginally increase but the massive amount of people who would not be in prison who are otherwise productive members of society would far outweigh the marginal crime increase due to career criminals who woild have normally been locked up for MJ.

 

[mrplunkey]

Interesting justice by proxy situation. But then we could easily say the vast majority of criminals, who, use drugs, also use/possess handguns. Therefore we must ban handguns. I would say at least the vast number of pot users arent also career criminals and we should at least start with legalization of MJ then gauge the effects on crime. My guess is crime may marginally increase but the massive amount of people who would not be in prison who are otherwise productive members of society would far outweigh the marginal crime increase due to career criminals who woild have normally been locked up for MJ.

But I think handguns are a great way to sweep animals off the street too. Since they are often convicted felons, they can't legally own or possess them anyway. Plus, they'll often conceal them and/or use unregistered ones (federal offense, I believe). So a criminal may be able to get out of the robbery charge due to lack of evidence, but if he gets caught with a gun w/a filed-off serial number, he's still going down.

I kinda like the gun laws we have. I just wish we enforced them and had mandatory minimums on them.