New to TRT and the forums – couple of questions and an intro

[doggone]

First, this is a fantastic group.
I’ve been reading the boards a lot since I found the site looking for HRT info. The answers to most of my questions have been out there if I dig deep, but I’m new to this and have a lot to learn.

First, a few questions I haven’t been able to find answers to, then a little about me if you’re interested or have suggestions on my situation.
VERY WORDY – PROMISE I’LL NEVER DO THIS AGAIN.

• Using Dr. prescribed Testim Gel for HRT – 1 tube per day. It’s like rubbing maple syrup on my shoulders – it dries but stays sticky all day. I’ve started splitting the application morning/afternoon, which helps, but I can feel that I’m rubbing the afternoon coat on over the morning coat and wonder if this is significantly hurting the absorption of that second application. Wish I could rinse off, but I usually can’t.
• Back in 2007, Thelion2005 did a calculation that 1 tube per day = about 7mg per day or 49mg per week. Is that still an accurate estimate? Seems very low. I guess I won’t see dramatic increases unless I add some cycles later or get on higher dose injections.
• Does Propecia really work to help keep/regrow hair? And is there a clear answer on whether or not it is detrimental to HRT treatment? I was already getting a little thin and thought I’d give it a try.
• Is gyno a possibility at this low dosage? I’m not having any puffiness or tenderness, but just a chapped feeling and maybe a little more erect (can’t believe I said that) than usual. Ordered some UNLEASHED just to see if it would help in all areas, so maybe I’ll see some difference.
• I’m going to try to switch to injections on my next appt, but beyond that are there any other changes or supplements I should add on an ongoing basis for normal HRT? DHEA? Low dose ADEX? HCG? I know HGH is recommended, but probably not for me right now.

Here’s how I got here…

Recently switched Drs in a search to get treatment for low Testosterone. Started researching HRT and Testosterone and found this great site and TheSourceCheck (I signed up and will be using that before long I think).
Since I’m an avid weight lifter, I felt at home. Always considered steroids too extreme and not needed for my goals, but after all the reading I understand why my gains have been so difficult and what getting my T up to normal levels (or higher) might do for me.

• 48 years old, 5’8”, 170#, 12% BF (I’d like BF to be lower. My diet is good and I can gain and loose weight easily, but can’t seem to get the BF down without loosing muscle too.)
• 2200kCal/day 40%/40%/20% P/C/F (220g/220g/50g).
• Creatine, Glutamine, Protein shakes, pre and post WO nutrition. ZMA, multi-Vitamin,
• Lifted on and off my whole life for health and sports, but with no goals or guidance.
• 3 years ago got serious with goals, nutrition, and supplements – had good strength and lean muscle gains the first year, but nothing much since.
• Lift 3-4 days per week. Each muscle group only once per week. 45-60 min Cardio on most off nights.
• Never taken Steroids.

• Blood test 2 months ago Test level 241 (lucky me – I’m normal. 1 more point and it would be considered low ☺) Primary Care Dr. said “that’s fine”
• I asked about TRT for the usual and he prescribed Cymbalta – anti-depressant. Helped my mood and some unrelated issues, but not my lethargy, lagging strength, etc.
• Took my blood report to a Urologist who’s published papers on HRT. He immediately said “that’s too low for a guy your age” gave me a shot of Test and a prescription for 2 months of Testim gel 1%, 5mg to start after 3 weeks. Follow up appt after 8 weeks.

6 weeks in now and I’m seeing some very minor, but positive changes. After learning all I have here for the last 6 weeks, I’ll be much better informed to talk to him in a couple of weeks.

• Going to push for injections due to the stickiness of the gel and the fact that I have a 15yo daughter and a wife that has her own hormone problems I don’t need to be influencing.

Once I get this stabilized, I’ll be ready to try a little cycle or 2.

• I have a goal of putting on 15-20 lbs of muscle gradually. I’ve had insignificant muscle and strength gains for a couple of years now despite aggressive lifting and close attention to diet. Don’t know if HRT will eventually let me get there, but a cycle or 2 is not so intimidating any more.
• If he goes to an injection and is open to questions/suggestions, it sounds like Test E or Test C are the most common and the best bets for my situation long term. Sustanon seems to be popular too, but there seem to be a lot of folks that don’t like it for some reason. I’ll have to read more to understand why, but for someone that is only going to raise and lower dosages and is not concerned about PCT, it seems like a fit too.

Thank
SS

 

[goin on 4T]

I would answer in more detail but i am about to head out of town. See RED

First, this is a fantastic group.
I’ve been reading the boards a lot since I found the site looking for HRT info. The answers to most of my questions have been out there if I dig deep, but I’m new to this and have a lot to learn.

First, a few questions I haven’t been able to find answers to, then a little about me if you’re interested or have suggestions on my situation.
VERY WORDY – PROMISE I’LL NEVER DO THIS AGAIN.

• Using Dr. prescribed Testim Gel for HRT – 1 tube per day. It’s like rubbing maple syrup on my shoulders – it dries but stays sticky all day. I’ve started splitting the application morning/afternoon, which helps, but I can feel that I’m rubbing the afternoon coat on over the morning coat and wonder if this is significantly hurting the absorption of that second application. Wish I could rinse off, but I usually can’t.
• Back in 2007, Thelion2005 did a calculation that 1 tube per day = about 7mg per day or 49mg per week. Is that still an accurate estimate? Seems very low. I guess I won’t see dramatic increases unless I add some cycles later or get on higher dose injections. tell your dr you hate the testim it gives you a rash and you don't want ? to get it on them.
• Does Propecia really work to help keep/regrow hair? And is there a clear answer on whether or not it is detrimental to HRT treatment? I was already getting a little thin and thought I’d give it a try.Dont know I don't care about hair, the less the better.
• Is gyno a possibility at this low dosage? I’m not having any puffiness or tenderness, but just a chapped feeling and maybe a little more erect (can’t believe I said that) than usual. Ordered some UNLEASHED just to see if it would help in all areas, so maybe I’ll see some difference. No you should have no gyno issues under 200mg per week of test, however its always best to have some AI's on hand just in case!
• I’m going to try to switch to injections on my next appt, but beyond that are there any other changes or supplements I should add on an ongoing basis for normal HRT? DHEA? Low dose ADEX? HCG? I know HGH is recommended, but probably not for me right now. HCG really just keeps your nuts up to size.

Here’s how I got here…

Recently switched Drs in a search to get treatment for low Testosterone. Started researching HRT and Testosterone and found this great site and TheSourceCheck (I signed up and will be using that before long I think).
Since I’m an avid weight lifter, I felt at home. Always considered steroids too extreme and not needed for my goals, but after all the reading I understand why my gains have been so difficult and what getting my T up to normal levels (or higher) might do for me.

• 48 years old, 5’8”, 170#, 12% BF (I’d like BF to be lower. My diet is good and I can gain and loose weight easily, but can’t seem to get the BF down without loosing muscle too.)
• 2200kCal/day 40%/40%/20% P/C/F (220g/220g/50g).
• Creatine, Glutamine, Protein shakes, pre and post WO nutrition. ZMA, multi-Vitamin,
• Lifted on and off my whole life for health and sports, but with no goals or guidance.
• 3 years ago got serious with goals, nutrition, and supplements – had good strength and lean muscle gains the first year, but nothing much since.
• Lift 3-4 days per week. Each muscle group only once per week. 45-60 min Cardio on most off nights.
• Never taken Steroids.

• Blood test 2 months ago Test level 241 (lucky me – I’m normal. 1 more point and it would be considered low ☺) Primary Care Dr. said “that’s fine”Wow that is low!
• I asked about TRT for the usual and he prescribed Cymbalta – anti-depressant. Helped my mood and some unrelated issues, but not my lethargy, lagging strength, etc.Doesn't that interfer with your desire for sex?
• Took my blood report to a Urologist who’s published papers on HRT. He immediately said “that’s too low for a guy your age” gave me a shot of Test and a prescription for 2 months of Testim gel 1%, 5mg to start after 3 weeks. Follow up appt after 8 weeks.

6 weeks in now and I’m seeing some very minor, but positive changes. After learning all I have here for the last 6 weeks, I’ll be much better informed to talk to him in a couple of weeks.

• Going to push for injections due to the stickiness of the gel and the fact that I have a 15yo daughter and a wife that has her own hormone problems I don’t need to be influencing.

Yep and add rashes too!

Once I get this stabilized, I’ll be ready to try a little cycle or 2.

• I have a goal of putting on 15-20 lbs of muscle gradually. I’ve had insignificant muscle and strength gains for a couple of years now despite aggressive lifting and close attention to diet. Don’t know if HRT will eventually let me get there, but a cycle or 2 is not so intimidating any more.
• If he goes to an injection and is open to questions/suggestions, it sounds like Test E or Test C are the most common and the best bets for my situation long term. Sustanon seems to be popular too, but there seem to be a lot of folks that don’t like it for some reason. I’ll have to read more to understand why, but for someone that is only going to raise and lower dosages and is not concerned about PCT, it seems like a fit too.

Thank
SS

If you need a real hrt dr let me know i will send you some info...

 

[doggone]

goin on 4T,

I appreciate the info.
I would like to hear about HRT doctors. I want to see how the next visit with the Urologist goes. He seems proactive, but really most interested in Testosterone only.
The prescription he wrote for my next pre-appointment blood test is for Total Test and PSA only.
Surprisingly, he wrote my current prescription for Testim after only seeing a Total Test test and TSH (1.28... .4 - 4.5 range) with no other tests on that particular report.

Good advice about the reasons for injectables. He mentioned the alternatives (injections and pellets) on my first visit, but wanted to start with the gel, so hopefully he'll be cooperative.

Cymbalta did not change my desire for sex, but I've never considered myself having a problem in that area in spite of that and low Test.
Curious to see what happens as Test levels go up.

Thanks,
SS

 

[goin on 4T]

uhh you get even more horny, I want sex atleast once a day especially when taking proviron.
I had pellets didn't like that rout, cut you open cram them in your back. I just would rather take a simple shot!

 

[doublebicep]

Nice analogy:

Using Dr. prescribed Testim Gel for HRT – 1 tube per day. It’s like rubbing maple syrup on my shoulders

There is also the androderm route. 1 or 2 patches per day on an arm abs etc.., applied at night and then worn through out the day. It has a bad rap due to skin rashes but has a lot of clinical data that shows it to be effective and delivers testosterone in a way that matches the body’s own natural rhythm of testosterone production.

You may also want to look into Straint(testosterone Buccal). I have never tried it.

If you are in Europe (I don't think the FDA has approved yet) you have the option of oal testosterone undecanoate (Andriol). I have read about issues with absorbtion and maintaining consistant levels. I have never tried Andriol.

I am looking forward to testosterone replacement chewing gum. Seriously...

 

[thelion2005]

First, this is a fantastic group.
I’ve been reading the boards a lot since I found the site looking for HRT info. The answers to most of my questions have been out there if I dig deep, but I’m new to this and have a lot to learn.

First, a few questions I haven’t been able to find answers to, then a little about me if you’re interested or have suggestions on my situation.
VERY WORDY – PROMISE I’LL NEVER DO THIS AGAIN.

• Using Dr. prescribed Testim Gel for HRT – 1 tube per day. It’s like rubbing maple syrup on my shoulders – it dries but stays sticky all day. I’ve started splitting the application morning/afternoon, which helps, but I can feel that I’m rubbing the afternoon coat on over the morning coat and wonder if this is significantly hurting the absorption of that second application. Wish I could rinse off, but I usually can’t.
• Back in 2007, Thelion2005 did a calculation that 1 tube per day = about 7mg per day or 49mg per week. Is that still an accurate estimate? Seems very low. I guess I won’t see dramatic increases unless I add some cycles later or get on higher dose injections.
• Does Propecia really work to help keep/regrow hair? And is there a clear answer on whether or not it is detrimental to HRT treatment? I was already getting a little thin and thought I’d give it a try.
• Is gyno a possibility at this low dosage? I’m not having any puffiness or tenderness, but just a chapped feeling and maybe a little more erect (can’t believe I said that) than usual. Ordered some UNLEASHED just to see if it would help in all areas, so maybe I’ll see some difference.
• I’m going to try to switch to injections on my next appt, but beyond that are there any other changes or supplements I should add on an ongoing basis for normal HRT? DHEA? Low dose ADEX? HCG? I know HGH is recommended, but probably not for me right now.

Here’s how I got here…

Recently switched Drs in a search to get treatment for low Testosterone. Started researching HRT and Testosterone and found this great site and TheSourceCheck (I signed up and will be using that before long I think).
Since I’m an avid weight lifter, I felt at home. Always considered steroids too extreme and not needed for my goals, but after all the reading I understand why my gains have been so difficult and what getting my T up to normal levels (or higher) might do for me.

• 48 years old, 5’8”, 170#, 12% BF (I’d like BF to be lower. My diet is good and I can gain and loose weight easily, but can’t seem to get the BF down without loosing muscle too.)
• 2200kCal/day 40%/40%/20% P/C/F (220g/220g/50g).
• Creatine, Glutamine, Protein shakes, pre and post WO nutrition. ZMA, multi-Vitamin,
• Lifted on and off my whole life for health and sports, but with no goals or guidance.
• 3 years ago got serious with goals, nutrition, and supplements – had good strength and lean muscle gains the first year, but nothing much since.
• Lift 3-4 days per week. Each muscle group only once per week. 45-60 min Cardio on most off nights.
• Never taken Steroids.

• Blood test 2 months ago Test level 241 (lucky me – I’m normal. 1 more point and it would be considered low ☺) Primary Care Dr. said “that’s fine”
• I asked about TRT for the usual and he prescribed Cymbalta – anti-depressant. Helped my mood and some unrelated issues, but not my lethargy, lagging strength, etc.
• Took my blood report to a Urologist who’s published papers on HRT. He immediately said “that’s too low for a guy your age” gave me a shot of Test and a prescription for 2 months of Testim gel 1%, 5mg to start after 3 weeks. Follow up appt after 8 weeks.

6 weeks in now and I’m seeing some very minor, but positive changes. After learning all I have here for the last 6 weeks, I’ll be much better informed to talk to him in a couple of weeks.

• Going to push for injections due to the stickiness of the gel and the fact that I have a 15yo daughter and a wife that has her own hormone problems I don’t need to be influencing.

Once I get this stabilized, I’ll be ready to try a little cycle or 2.

• I have a goal of putting on 15-20 lbs of muscle gradually. I’ve had insignificant muscle and strength gains for a couple of years now despite aggressive lifting and close attention to diet. Don’t know if HRT will eventually let me get there, but a cycle or 2 is not so intimidating any more.
• If he goes to an injection and is open to questions/suggestions, it sounds like Test E or Test C are the most common and the best bets for my situation long term. Sustanon seems to be popular too, but there seem to be a lot of folks that don’t like it for some reason. I’ll have to read more to understand why, but for someone that is only going to raise and lower dosages and is not concerned about PCT, it seems like a fit too.

Thank
SS

[*]Using Dr. prescribed Testim Gel for HRT – 1 tube per day. It’s like rubbing maple syrup on my shoulders – it dries but stays sticky all day. I’ve started splitting the application morning/afternoon, which helps, but I can feel that I’m rubbing the afternoon coat on over the morning coat and wonder if this is significantly hurting the absorption of that second application. Wish I could rinse off, but I usually can’t.

Hate all gels except Androgel, which is absorbed quickly and cleanly.


[*]Back in 2007, Thelion2005 did a calculation that 1 tube per day = about 7mg per day or 49mg per week. Is that still an accurate estimate? Seems very low. I guess I won’t see dramatic increases unless I add some cycles later or get on higher dose injections.

All these gels do is supplement natural levels at a very low rate. Even injections are reduced by longer esters.You won't grow big on gels and such.

[*]Does Propecia really work to help keep/regrow hair? And is there a clear answer on whether or not it is detrimental to HRT treatment? I was already getting a little thin and thought I’d give it a try.

Don't know. Rogain works.

[*]Is gyno a possibility at this low dosage? I’m not having any puffiness or tenderness, but just a chapped feeling and maybe a little more erect (can’t believe I said that) than usual. Ordered some UNLEASHED just to see if it would help in all areas, so maybe I’ll see some difference.

A-dex at 0.25 twice per week is a nice safty net just in case.

[*]I’m going to try to switch to injections on my next appt, but beyond that are there any other changes or supplements I should add on an ongoing basis for normal HRT? DHEA? Low dose ADEX? HCG? I know HGH is recommended, but probably not for me right now.
[/LIST]

a-dex at 0.5 if you go above 200. HGH is terrific partner. DHEA is no ownder drug but won't hurt. Injections of test p would be best. Learn to do it yourself. Takes me 500 mg a week to really grow big! Sust is great. I was doing 250 and 250 per week and tearing up the gym. And ... get into HGH at least 1 iu eod.

 

[doggone]

Great advice folks. Thanks.
The more I research the more anxious I am to just get onto the injections.
More dosing flexibility and much easier.
I had such a horrible time getting my insurance to pay for the gel, I'm curious to see what happens if I switch to injections. Had to pay for the first month out of pocket (250) and am waiting for a delivery of next months box if they don't change their mind.

 

[ArmaniAK47]

I am only 19 and after some hassling with my normal doc and he not giving me test he let me go to an endocrinologist.

Endo. checked me again and found my test at 300 (almost under normal levels) so he let me have Androgel 5g per day..

I like androgel but it isn't nearly strong enough... It's like... a cookie I'd throw in with my normal HRT.. I've taken up to 5-6 packets per day and still not felt great like on cycle..
No stickyness unless you get slightly wet.. then it re dries.. very easy and nice!

I have a check up with him this friday.. Trying to get him to switch me to:
Testosterone Cypionate: 300mgs once a week.
Nandrolone Decanoate: 150mgs once a week.

At 21 I am going to try and get him to start scripting me HGH.

--wish me luck

 

[doggone]

Holy Crap ! Headed in the wrong direction....
Had my 2 month follow up and my Test level dropped from 241 to 91.
Good news is that he prescribed self injected Test E @ 200mg every 2 weeks (I'll do 100/wk)
Bad news is he only gave me a 2 month prescription plus the 400mg injection they gave me at the office.
Says let's try this a while and then try pellets. I don't want pellets !

So my Test level 2 years ago was 345
3 months ago it was 241.
Never done any AAS or PH.
Given 1 Test E injection 3 months ago and on Testim gel ever since.
May have gone a little light on the gel a day or 2 before this latest blood test, but regular otherwise.
Stuff I've taken since my last blood test ... Multi Vit, Zinc, Mag, Unleashed, Gun Powder - pre WO; Glutamine and Creatine, a little DHEA

What would have shut me down so badly?
I thought that the Gels worked more as a supplement to natural T in such small doses and not as a replacement that would cause a shutdown.

In 3 months the blood test he ordered calls for
- Hematocrit; Total Test; Prolactin; PSA
Anything missing that I should insist on?

At least he's headed in the right direction, but I have contacted an HRT clinic and will probably pursue that after the next 3 months.

I've stocked up on a few extra doses of various Testosterone including Prop and E, but under the circumstances, guess I'll just stick with the Dr.s orders until I find a baseline.
(also picked up some HGH, Var, and Mast just to have for future use.)

 

[goin on 4T]

What would have shut you down? The supplemental test!