You will not keep your gains

[shoichi]

Ah shit. My girlfriend is pissed so I'm sitting here on Valentine's.

Anyways, this post is getting old, but was doing some thinking here. I'm about to start my second cycle, and this stuff gets me down when I hear that I won't keep my gains. I believe that you can stay above your genetic potential, as long as your eating enough. Not 20lbs +, but you should be able to keep some extra weight. However, using gear will help you realize your max potential in a shorter time frame. For instance, I'm 5'5 172, and asian. I don't think that my frame will ever be able to naturally hold 200+(nor do I think that would be very healthy long term). However, I know that I can hold more than my weight now. I have an extremely good frame for my height. My next cycle will boost me another few lbs, and over the next 6 months I think I'll drop down to my natural max. I think I'll be able to settle around 185.

So, I think that gear is good to help realize your max potential quicker, and to find out what that is. And maybe....I'm trying to justify my next cycle to myself at the same time.

 

[Rogue Warrior]

If you are eating enough to stay above your genetic potential after roids you are looking at turning into a fat ass. Only roids will keep your bf% down while eating in excess and even then its not easy.

 

[leancuisine]

you CAN keep you gains!

not all of them, but if you have the knowledge of what it takes to sustain muscle post cycle then you should be able to keep anywhere between 40%-80% of the muscle gained during cycle.
(if you're under your maximim genetic capability)

the key is knowing how to train and eat post cycle.

 

[Gretak9]

I beleive that the majority of gear users are under their genitic potential. Now I'm not saying that we (those under our genetic potential) are not training hard but there are many factors that may prevent us from reaching our potential such as not getting enough sleep, work commitments that keep us from a set lifting routine, Stress, etc. Now if there is a product (steroids) that will help you achieve your goals easier of course many of us would and do use them. I believe that the gains we make from gear that bring us closer to our genetic potential can be all kept after a cycle as long as we train smart. By the way, I'm 6'5" and 260lbs (I'm really fat right now @25% bf). So assuming that I get down to around 10% bf, I could in theory gain 20lbs of muscle and still weigh the same 260lbs. I am working hard and using AS to help me reach my genetic potential.

 

[marky]

Bump for more responses from 30+ users

 

[GrownlikeaGorilla]

creatine

so why do u guys think that creatine causes permanent gains? seems like it's water in the beginning but in the long run the gains are keepers....

 

[Zoomster]

I am a realist about this issue. I don't expect to keep a single pound once I stay off long enough.

With that said, I think the guys that keep those big arms or shoulders such as Arnold, went down the GH path.

My whole outlook is to enjoy this while I can. Nothing lasts forever. Why sweat it?

 

[psychedout]

I disagree with your conclusions. Based on personal experience, AS use changes a person's genetic "spot" permanently.

Huckleberry Finnaplex made a good post on this.

AAS can change a persons genetic limit (making higher might I add).

Ill go find it.

 

[psychedout]

Proof of A/S far reaching genetic potential by Huck Finn

Alright,I constantly hear the question,"Do all your gains eventually diminish once you've discontinued anabolics for good?"Or"You won't be able to keep those gains long term,at least not anywhere past your natural genetic potential"...The following study lends credence to alterations in GENETICS from anabolic administration,and these,for the most part,are PERMANENT physiological adaptations that will set one BEYOND their natural potential.Evidence is pointing towards increases in myonucleic populations and satellite cell activation into the mainframe.Satellite cells are basically 'dormant' muscle cells,that usually lie outside of the main skeletal network,and for the most part will never be used or activated.The use of A/S triggers these cells into activation and incorporates them into the striated main-frame.Increases in myonuclei(skeletal muscle nuclei)equates to a permanently enhanced ability to process proteins to further anabolism...Enjoy my brotha's...


Effects of anabolic steroids on the muscle cells of strength-trained athletes.
Kadi F, Eriksson A, Holmner S, Thornell LE
Med Sci Sports Exerc 1999 Nov 31:1528-34

Med Sci Sports Exerc . Volume 31 . Issue 11
VIEW

Abstract
PURPOSE: Athletes who use anabolic steroids get larger and stronger muscles. How this is reflected at the level of the muscle fibers has not yet been established and was the topic of this investigation. METHODS: Muscle biopsies were obtained from the trapezius muscles of high-level power lifters who have reported the use of anabolic steroids in high doses for several years and from high-level power lifters who have never used these drugs. Enzyme-immunohistochemical investigation was performed to assess muscle fiber types, fiber area, myonuclear number, frequency of satellite cells, and fibers expressing developmental protein isoforms. RESULTS: The overall muscle fiber composition was the same in both groups. The mean area for each fiber type in the reported steroid users was larger than that in the nonsteroid users (P < 0.05). The number of myonuclei and the proportion of central nuclei were also significantly higher in the reported steroid users (P < 0.05). Likewise, the frequency of fibers expressing developmental protein isoforms was significantly higher in the reported steroid users group (P < 0.05). CONCLUSION: Intake of anabolic steroids and strength-training induce an increase in muscle size by both hypertrophy and the formation of new muscle fibers. We propose that activation of satellite cells is a key process and is enhanced by the steroid use. The incorporation of the satellite cells into preexisting fibers to maintain a constant nuclear to cytoplasmic ratio seems to be a fundamental mechanism for muscle fiber growth. Although all the subjects in this study have the same level of performance, the possibility of genetic differences between the two groups cannot be completely excluded.

 

[Izzman]

I agree with with alot of the things said in this thread, esp with the posts about proper PCT habits and regimens and I am not aiming this towards anyone in this thread BUT most people need to realize that after you complete a cycle and gain whatever it is that you gain, you MUST maintain it FOREVER (read: FOREVER, thats provided you are under your genetic limit, allowing room for additional muscle growth) with proper stimulus (training, heavy training that is) and sufficient calories (usually 12-15 per pound of LBM). What incentive would the body have to keep additional LBM if you aren't providing for it? Especially when that extra weight is active, energy consuming muscle? Zilch, zero, nada thats what. Its fucking angers me beyond belief when "abercrombie" models juice casually and then go back to their shitty eating and training habits and expect to keep their gains......just not going to happen. Juice or no juice, BBing is a lifelong process, some people have it easier with their god given genetics while others have to work HARDER.....but nowhere does it say that both types can't gain significant amounts of LBM (genetics determine muscle SHAPE NOT SIZE).....people who say "my genetics won't allow it" are delusional.....your laziness and stupidity won't allow it! Why run a cycle or even begin working out in the first place if you plan to drop the ball later on? Don't waste your time and money. Muscle is muscle (provided it is in fact under your genetic limit) the body cannot differentiate AAS gained muscle from naturally gained muscle, the deciding factor here is how well you try and keep it! Its simple really, natty or not, stop training and eating seriously and you WILL lose your gains! Just had to vent!