You will not keep your gains

[marky]

you can achieve a higher set point with gear. the homeostatic point from which it is usually difficult to move up or down.

for people with high metabolisms maintaining a higher set point is more difficult.

the longer you stay at a point the less likely your body to lose those "gains".

people with poor genetics, will always have poor genetics.. the drugs will hide that fact... much like people that have retroviruses.. the drugs suppress the virus(you get bigger).. but it is still there underlying.. in time your body may get better at suppressing it (increased set point).. but the underlying framework is mostly unchanged..

note: for most people once your big its hard to get small.. but when your inbetween and havenet been there long.. its easy to revert without hard work and discipline (even then it may not be enough)..

Sorry macro. Dont know how long youve been in the bgame but time tells very clear facts.Regardless of proper post cycle training, its just a matter of time you return to previous lbm. Gear is the difference. Would you expect a car to perform the same wo nitrous? Just my experience over 17 years and MANY experiment
NOT SAYING YOURE WRONG,JUST MY EXPERIENCES, SO YOUR CONCUSIONS IMO CANT BE VERIFIED

 

[jacshelb]

I see a lot of people giving their experiences and opinions, but what we might really want would be a large scale scientific gathering of information. now, we can't probably do that. But, everyone could write down: thier bodyweight before juicing, number of years training before juicing, number of years on the juice, time since last cycle, present bodyweight/fat percentage, and parents all time best conditioning.

Still, it wouldn't be totally scientific, but it would be a start. This is a very difficult topic that very likely is impossible to gauge on one person's experiences.

Jacob

 

[Realgains]

I agree with Marky......although I would like to agree with Macro and I actually hope he is correct.

I think steroids use helps one reach their natural maximum weight much more quickly than with natural training. However, I believe one will eventually loose ALL gains above ones natural maximum weight, no matter how smart one trains, eats and sleeps.

I do not believe that a person can alter their set point, or that lean body weight that can be maintained without steroids. If one CAN indeed alter the set point I don't think it would be by very much at all.

Thing is we will never know what the truth is. All we can really do is to look closely at those that no longer use steroids but continue to train. My eyes are telling me that all will revert back to their natural maximum lean body mass and probably in as little as 1 year or less.

I will ask my friend Casey Viator, old 70's pro, and get back to you all.

RG

 

[Zyglamail]

you can achieve a higher set point with gear. the homeostatic point from which it is usually difficult to move up or down.

for people with high metabolisms maintaining a higher set point is more difficult.

the longer you stay at a point the less likely your body to lose those "gains".

people with poor genetics, will always have poor genetics.. the drugs will hide that fact... much like people that have retroviruses.. the drugs suppress the virus(you get bigger).. but it is still there underlying.. in time your body may get better at suppressing it (increased set point).. but the underlying framework is mostly unchanged..

note: for most people once your big its hard to get small.. but when your inbetween and havenet been there long.. its easy to revert without hard work and discipline (even then it may not be enough)..

Im very inclined to agree with this. The reason I sau this is that when I graduated I was a skinny 175lbs. I played hockey and was very active and athletic, jut not a whole lot of mass. Im now 245 and havent been on a cycle for some time and still making gains allbeit small ones.

 

[Realgains]

Calling all bro's that have at some time stopped gear for at least a couple of years yet continued to train smart as a natural. These are the ones I would like to hear from.


RG

 

[Realgains]

I'm probably a decent example then. I started training at age 13 around football season and whenever the coaches felt like opening the weightroom. By 10th grade I knew i was more serious about bodybuilding than football, although I continued to play. Ended football around 5'8", 163lbs; by the time i got to college the next year I was up 171lbs still natural. This also marked the beginning of year round training for me (no more sports). I entered two shows my freshman year and placed top 3 in both. Now it's time to do some juice. Over the next 3 years I probably spent less than 12 months on juice; I just couldn't afford any more. I peaked around 211, pudgier than i would prefer to have been, but still Big Man On Campus. My avatar is me at around 184lbs in 1986.
http://members.cox.net/s.wingate/images/front.jpg
http://members.cox.net/s.wingate/images/rear-lat.jpg

Even with juice I was never very strong - bench 365x2; squat 365x8; deadlift 405. Understand that for me a cycle consisted of 1cc of test (200mg) every 5 days and 4 D-bol/day. That's it! I did that probably 3 times in total; had some Finajet once also. Didn't touch juice ever after '86; trained only sporadically (4-6 months a year) fom '91 to just recently.
Today i'm 5'8', 235 lbs with the extra being all fat. Underneath the fat I still have probably 90% of the muscle I had then, although I firmly believe i built 85% of it naturally anyway. What I don't have left is strength. I'd be stunned if i could bench press my weight; could probably squat 300 or so. Understand I'm 38 now so big lifts never interested me and certainly don't now.
I'm trying to lose the additional fat now i'll know for sure how much muscle is left in 3 months.
I do still look like a muscular guy for sure and I can go to a gym and get a pump just like I did 10 yrs ago.
My opinion: whatever you gain from drugs will disappear when the drugs stop. There is little question in my mind. I can say now that unless you have a chance at making a living from bodybuilding i don't see how the cost is worth it. You guys today are spending thousands of dollars/year, probably under the delusion that when you're 50 you'll like Arnold does today. IT AIN'T HAPPENIN. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt and it's way too big.

Thanx for the reply bro!

BTW I am almost 41 and I am stronger now than when I was 30 and way stronger than when I was 25.

BRO....the first thing to go with age is reflexes and that starts at about 31 or 32. Then overall speed comes down a tad by 34 or so. Endurance can be kept at elite levels until 40 or so. Strength is the last thing to deminish and there are MANY top power lifters in the 40's bro. There is a fella at the gym ,who I train with from time to time, that is 57 and he benches 400 Squats 500 and deadlifts 600!
SO>>>>>don't give up on strength and training in general bro.

RG

 

[Nelson Montana]

Gaudging gains up until age 25 is meaningless. Everybody fills out in those years. Gains lost from non-training also don't count.

I'll be looking at 50 next year. I'd rather be 30. But I look better than most 30 year olds.

As one old timer once said to me:

"If they ever find the secret to eternal youth, it'll probably come with a barbell and a set of instructions."

 

[me2dammit]

with all

due respect, 6'1 200 is not even close to the size you should be if you consider juice. I dont see how somebody, most people codulnt obtain a solid 220 at that height naturally. That being said I think there are other factors effecting your ability to hold that weight.

Lets not forget gear makes you recovery ability change, people need to take that into account.

 

[lincoln]

If all this is true, why hasnt Arnold shrank way down to a small size.

He has lost weight but he is 50+. Probably hasn't juiced in 15+ years.

He looks damn good in the T3 previews.

According to some of these posts he should have shrunk down to where he was before he juiced.

 

[Zyglamail]

Gaudging gains up until age 25 is meaningless. Everybody fills out in those years. Gains lost from non-training also don't count.

I'll be looking at 50 next year. I'd rather be 30. But I look better than most 30 year olds.

As one old timer once said to me:

"If they ever find the secret to eternal youth, it'll probably come with a barbell and a set of instructions."

Im mid 30's.