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would you rather have a gaye son/daughter or a retarded son/daughter?
- Thread starter binö
- Start date
S
silverstar1025
Guest
gay.. them having problems from birth like that would be too heart breaking and hard!
silverfish
New member
geigh, with a hot girlfriend.
gay definitely. Not that I would not love either choice any less. However I think that i would be put at ease knowing that my son/daughter has another same sex mate rather than my son/daughter having a handicap or inability to provide daily living on their own!
calveless wonder
New member
gay for sure.
having a retarded kid would completely alter your life, every waking moment.
having a retarded kid would completely alter your life, every waking moment.
S
Spartacus
Guest
with retards you wont have to save for college or buy them a car
gayes get DUI's
as a result of the chemical dependency as a result of their conflicted existence
and retards are always happy
mostly
just buy 'em that garish NASCAR shirt hangin' in the gas station and a klondyke bar
gayes get DUI's
as a result of the chemical dependency as a result of their conflicted existence
and retards are always happy
mostly
just buy 'em that garish NASCAR shirt hangin' in the gas station and a klondyke bar
Raptorex
New member
My best friend, one of the funniest kids I know, played lineman (tackle) for a D1 team had a daughter about 5 years ago that was mentally retarded. He tells me how much he loves her and that he cry's when he has to bring her to her live-in school during the week and raising her has been the most difficult thing, however he wouldn't trade it for anything.
One person's story.
One person's story.
MightyMouse69 said:
Neither one of my kids is developmentally delayed in any way and are tracking to be more brilliant than me when they grow up. I would still love them the same if they were in a vegetative state for the rest of their lives starting now.
My sister is gay and has a strong relationship with her partner. I go to her for marriage advice and she's not even allowed to be married. She is a fantastic quality person full of compassion and contributes greatly to society in all she does.
Hmm...I guess I just think people are people and take them as they are. But, that is just the compassionate Christian coming out of me and I know how popular that is with everyone around here.
Edited to add: I would (or will) love them either way. I love my kids no matter what and just try to parent them as best I can. They are so precious to me. I know I go deep on these kinds of topics but what can I say? I am a passionate lover of kids and the human race.
digimon7068
New member
being hetero and of at least average intelligence, both scenarios would be extremely difficult for me. . .but, i'd make the necessary adjustments. . .people are what they are. . .
Pat_McCrotch
New member
Spartacus said:
LOL @ DUI.
they also do a lot fo drugs and practice in unsafe sex.
Pat_McCrotch
New member
Id rather be a pussy fuck than an ass fuckCal_21 said:
just sayin
canadianhitman
Well-known member
gaye definately better than retarded
redsamurai
Banned
LuluDeren said:
their "direct" relevancy to each other isn't the point of the question.........deeper think you must... young jedi
nefertiti said:
GoldenDelicious
New member
gay, so long as he has sex with girls just to spite other guys
abolish the weak
New member
W/ my luck my kid will be both.
S
Spartacus
Guest
retards dont get aidsSugarTits said:LOL @ DUI.
they also do a lot fo drugs and practice in unsafe sex.
J
jerseyrugger76
Guest
Spartacus said:
This is the second time you've conflated homosexuality and substance abuse. I guess the data you have to back this up with is your vast experience in the gay eden that is Alabama? Why not move off of Tobacco Road, meet a representative sample of gay people, and then start drawing some intellectually defensible conclusions based on a decent data set.
Your affection for fathering a retarded child is, however, completely understandable. Clearly, your parents felt the same way.
all the whey
New member
At first I was offended at even discussing the possibility of having a retarded kid. And, comparing it to being gay.
But, then I figured gambino did this thread because he saddled his parents with both conditions.
But, then I figured gambino did this thread because he saddled his parents with both conditions.
Losing a child sucks. I am so sorry.EnderJE said:
S
Spartacus
Guest
my family has had about a dozen work for usjerseyrugger76 said:
you get to know someone when you employ them
as a bettin' man I'd bet half my net worth that in a bias free study you would find a higher percentage of substance abuse in homosexual men than in the regular population
seems to be different amongst lesbians as I surmise there's less social expectance of women to have an authorative role
I have other considerable experience with gay men as an employee
I'm not trying to denigrate them,hell myself I'm an alcoholic
I just take odds with the AAP position that gay men are the elite in male specimens
I think they're mostly bottom of the barrel
a few high profile exceptions dont make the norm
last time I was in a gay bar
the top two in the place,and trust me I can tell,one was a bartender and the other a decnt looking blonde guy
who would not take his eyes off me
not because he wanted me sexaully,but for the attention I got in the club(new guy,straight guy)
good looking straight men are like NFL cheerleaders
love to look at, love to fantasize about,but you cant have
redsamurai
Banned
spartacus........you are the weirdest cat here, you know that right? I mean fuck me your shit is so off the wall sometimes. Ironically it is you who come across as the substance abuser at this moment...
needtogetaas
New member
I think it should not matter. I would love my sin no matter what.
J
jerseyrugger76
Guest
Twelve whole gay men? Really? Holy shit! You truly are a man of the world! And I'd take that bet any day.Spartacus said:
This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. And I'm ignoring the fact that neither "expectance," nor "authorative" are words.Spartacus said:
You're doing a helluva job denigrating them, despite your own shortcomings.Spartacus said:
AAP's argument is prima facie narcissistic bullshit. Of course, yours is based on your direct experience with 12 - count 'em 12 - gay men, which makes your case total BS as well.Spartacus said:
Whatever happened to, "I'm not trying to denigrate them!" Here's a wild idea: since the gay population is merely a subset of the general population, does it not stand to reason that we look like, I dunno, EVERYONE ELSE? I realize things may be a bit different on the set of "Deliverance" where you live, but having inhabited a number of cities -- large and small -- I can say most gay men look like other men.Spartacus said:
And I'm sure that was the case, out there in God's country at a "club" filled with all of 10 people. Not exactly what one would call a competitive market. Try your little experiment in NYC, Miami, LA, or London on a Saturday night. You'll find that you blend in with the wallpaper quite quickly.Spartacus said:
In my experience, straight guys are attractive until they open their mouths. At which point most, but not all, reveal themselves as being both stupid and boring. Straight boys would do well to take the advice they are want to give attractive women and simply, "shut up and look pretty."Spartacus said:
J
jerseyrugger76
Guest
CMarc said:
Well said
J
jerseyrugger76
Guest
KillahBee said:
Someone insults me by insinuating that I have a substance abuse problem because I'm gay and I don't have the right to mix spirited invective in with a point-by-point retort of the offending party's baseless claim? Nigga' please.
jerseyrugger76 said:
Oh SNAP!*!*! That was some bitch slap right there.
Of course, I can see why substance abuse is evident with the people that Sparty works with. They either pick up his traits or they develop them on their own to have to cope with being around him all day.
he doesn't drink anymore bro...and honestly for once it be nice to see you give some props to your adversaries...everyone who disagrees with you is put down and made fun of.AAP said:
must be a defensive mechanism...but like i said, his brain power and yours is evenly matched...denying his mental accumen shows weakness on your part.
J
jerseyrugger76
Guest
AAP said:
LOL
S
Spartacus
Guest
ouchjerseyrugger76 said:
you hurted my feelings
heh
jnevin
New member
Vagabino said:
Not really. And it's kind of laughable that someone that's changed jobs/ careers a half dozen times in the last few years, has a criminal record due to substance abuse, and that has been living rent free in mommy and daddy's house while he tries to figure out what to do next (and then quit) is taking shots at a guy that's stepping up and being responsible and doing what he has to in order to be a good dad.
S
Spartacus
Guest
http://www.royy.com/pap.html
ALCOHOLISM AND ADDICTION IN HOMOSEXUALS
ETIOLOGY, PREVALENCE & TREATMENT
Roy Young, J.D., M.S.W., C.S.W.[1]
There is a good deal of alcoholism and addiction in the gay community, but newer studies suggest that the incidence among younger homosexuals may be no greater than in the population at large. This article suggests that gay liberation in the 1970's may have spared male homosexuals now under 30 some of the misunderstanding, discrimination and hatred that drove older homosexuals to drink and drugs. It also suggests that older homosexuals may abuse drink and drugs to dull the pain of aging in an especially youth-oriented, beauty-driven homosexual culture.[2]This article discusses some of the treatment issues specific to homosexuals who abuse alcohol and drugs, and suggests the use of gay special-interest 12-Step groups to assist in treating internalized homophobia and in making some of the lifestyle changes beneficial to homosexuals in recovery .
Substance abuse[3] is endemic in the homosexual[4] communities in the United States. Although the etiology of abuse in any given individual can be complex, there are certain themes which are frequently seen in the gay or lesbian addict, and require specialized treatment in recovery. Awareness of these special risk factors increases the chances of successfully treating a lesbian or gay addict. The author has chosen this topic because he is both homosexual and in long-term recovery from alcoholism.
Etiology
American Psychiatric Association (1994) (the DSM-IV) lucidly groups all addiction to and abuse of substances into a single chapter: Substance Related Disorders. There is no single theory which accounts for why some people abuse substances and others don't (Straussner, 1993), but the presenting picture is essentially the same regardless of the substance.
In all probability, addiction (like so much mental illness) has a multifactorial etiology. Thus it must be viewed in a biopsychosocial framework. Straussner (1993) concludes that,
It may be best to view substance abuse as a multivariate syndrome in which multiple patterns of dysfunctional substance abuse occur in various types of people with multiple prognoses requiring a variety of interventions (p. 11).
Here are some of the predisposing factors:
1. the possibility of a biochemical or genetic factor in intergenerational transmission;
2. familial factors such as early separation from one or both parents early in life; inadequate parenting during childhood; physical or sexual abuse, or growing up in a family with multigenerational abuse of substances;
3. all of the psychological theories posit psychological factors in the development of addiction. For all the "insight" provided by these theories, none of them leads to any more effective intervention than the others. In fact, those willing to be straightforward on this subject admit that psychotherapy of any ilk is largely ineffective in treating active addiction. If the proof of the pudding is in the eating, it is then apparent that the following classic psychological bromides are wrong and/or irrelevant:
The addict uses the substance:
as a substitute for unacceptable sexual or aggressive drives, as a substitute for the primal addiction to masturbation, or as a defense against homosexuality;
as the result of a fixation in and a regression to the oral stage of development;
in response to an underlying neurosis based on the conflict between dependence and anger, or
as slow suicide (Straussner, 1993).[5]
Other more modern theoretical perspectives focus equally ineffectively on poor ego development, pathological narcissism, or a deficiency in the sense of self (Straussner, 1993).
More useful theories for treating an individual in later-stage recovery[6] suggested that,
the addict attempts to medicate emotional problems such as depression, anxiety and anger;
express dependency needs;
compensate for feelings of inferiority and powerlessness, or
relate to such things as low frustration tolerance, high level of impulsivity, or the inability to endure even low-level anxiety (Straussner, 1993).
Learning and behavioral theorists see addiction as a conditioned response; it produces a pleasurable high (perhaps very pleasurable in some, making them more willing to accept the negative consequences of indulgence) or relieves pain (as suggested above). Because children raised by addicted non-biological parents are at a higher risk of alcoholism than children raised by non-addicted non-biological parents, expectancy, modeling, imitation and identification may also predispose to substance abuse (Straussner, 1993).
4. environmental and cultural factors in general can play a role in the etiology of addiction, such as:
availability of the substance (e.g., many soldiers became addicted to heroin in Vietnam because of [1] the high stress of war, and [2] the availability of the substance, but upon return to civilian life a large proportion of them ceased to have problems with drugs and alcohol);
lack of rewarding alternatives in life (e.g., lack of decent living conditions or opportunity to earn an income, as might be experienced by persons living in a minority ghetto),
influence of mass media, or
social or peer acceptance of use of the substance.
Finally, regardless of the theory of addiction or the predisposition of the person to addiction, almost anyone who takes a mood-altering substance in large quantity for a long enough time will experience physical and/or psychological dependence (Straussner, 1993).
Etiology of alcoholism in homosexuals
People with a homosexual orientation are, of course, subject to all of the multiple risk factors for addiction discussed above. They also have some psychosocial predisposing factors common to all hated minorities, and some unique to the homosexual population. There are many different types of alcoholics; there are many different types of homosexuals, and there are even more types of alcoholic homosexuals (Nardi, 1982).
Common to all hated minorities is the damage done to self-image by the internalization of that hatred. Erikson (1959) asserts that it is impossible for any member of a hated minority to escape that internalized hatred.[7]
Homosexuals are subject to unique stressors, as well. Starting in youth, sometimes as early as school age, sometimes before the homosexual himself[8] is aware of any sexual orientation, he learns some of the dangers of being homosexual:[9] public derision ("Joey is a fagot!"), discrimination ("We don't want a queer on the baseball teem"), and physical harm ("Hit the sissy again!"). The child may be rejected by her family implicitly (Mother overheard: "I'd rather my daughter be dead than be one of those lez-bines.") or explicitly (Father overheard: "You are a homo, you are not my son. Get out of my house.") (Savin-Williams, 1994). In later life he will face discrimination in the workplace and the possibility (only today less prevalent) of arrest and imprisonment for "unnatural acts." Rosario, Hunter & Rotheram-Borus (1992) note,
. . . the experience of being gay or bisexual in our society overwhelms any potential differences in social categories involving age, ethnicity, race, social class or geographical region of the country (p. 19).
The homosexual is unique among minorities in facing hatred and discrimination in that she usually has no role model, no positive example in her family, no loving parent who has gone through the same experience, to support her in her pain. Those discriminated against because they are (for instance) Jewish or African-American usually have families or communities for which this is a common problem. But gay youths are all too often rejected even by their families (Savin-Williams, 1994) and too seldom have yet found their supportive peers and communities.
Facing this external view of herself, no wonder that the homosexual internalizes this hatred and has difficulty with accepting her identity, building self-esteem, and expressing her sexuality. About 65% of all homosexuals seek therapy and give as a reason depression which is a result of adjusting to their homosexuality; of these, 50% started therapy between the ages of 18-21 (Diamond-Friedman, 1990).
In turn, these difficulties lead some to increase their consumption of alcohol or other drugs to aid in the coming-out process, or to medicate the anxiety or depression associated with concealing their identity or facing rejection from family and friends, discrimination in employment and housing, physical assault, arrest or imprisonment.
Colcher (1982) hypothesizes that homosexuals use substances to dull the pain of feeling "different and alone," to reduce "sexual inhibitions" relating to internalized homophobia, and to reduce the stress of the keen competition for good-looking sexual partners.
Nardi (1982) hypothesizes that homosexuals are more at risk of drinking to the point of addiction because the gay life style often revolves (or revolved in 1982) around gay bars, which have a history of permissiveness and protectiveness:
The absence of significant subculturally valued alternatives to drinking settings . . . contributes to the dependency on alcohol as an acceptable solution to feelings of anxiety, alienation and low self-esteem (p. 21).
ALCOHOLISM AND ADDICTION IN HOMOSEXUALS
ETIOLOGY, PREVALENCE & TREATMENT
Roy Young, J.D., M.S.W., C.S.W.[1]
There is a good deal of alcoholism and addiction in the gay community, but newer studies suggest that the incidence among younger homosexuals may be no greater than in the population at large. This article suggests that gay liberation in the 1970's may have spared male homosexuals now under 30 some of the misunderstanding, discrimination and hatred that drove older homosexuals to drink and drugs. It also suggests that older homosexuals may abuse drink and drugs to dull the pain of aging in an especially youth-oriented, beauty-driven homosexual culture.[2]This article discusses some of the treatment issues specific to homosexuals who abuse alcohol and drugs, and suggests the use of gay special-interest 12-Step groups to assist in treating internalized homophobia and in making some of the lifestyle changes beneficial to homosexuals in recovery .
Substance abuse[3] is endemic in the homosexual[4] communities in the United States. Although the etiology of abuse in any given individual can be complex, there are certain themes which are frequently seen in the gay or lesbian addict, and require specialized treatment in recovery. Awareness of these special risk factors increases the chances of successfully treating a lesbian or gay addict. The author has chosen this topic because he is both homosexual and in long-term recovery from alcoholism.
Etiology
American Psychiatric Association (1994) (the DSM-IV) lucidly groups all addiction to and abuse of substances into a single chapter: Substance Related Disorders. There is no single theory which accounts for why some people abuse substances and others don't (Straussner, 1993), but the presenting picture is essentially the same regardless of the substance.
In all probability, addiction (like so much mental illness) has a multifactorial etiology. Thus it must be viewed in a biopsychosocial framework. Straussner (1993) concludes that,
It may be best to view substance abuse as a multivariate syndrome in which multiple patterns of dysfunctional substance abuse occur in various types of people with multiple prognoses requiring a variety of interventions (p. 11).
Here are some of the predisposing factors:
1. the possibility of a biochemical or genetic factor in intergenerational transmission;
2. familial factors such as early separation from one or both parents early in life; inadequate parenting during childhood; physical or sexual abuse, or growing up in a family with multigenerational abuse of substances;
3. all of the psychological theories posit psychological factors in the development of addiction. For all the "insight" provided by these theories, none of them leads to any more effective intervention than the others. In fact, those willing to be straightforward on this subject admit that psychotherapy of any ilk is largely ineffective in treating active addiction. If the proof of the pudding is in the eating, it is then apparent that the following classic psychological bromides are wrong and/or irrelevant:
The addict uses the substance:
as a substitute for unacceptable sexual or aggressive drives, as a substitute for the primal addiction to masturbation, or as a defense against homosexuality;
as the result of a fixation in and a regression to the oral stage of development;
in response to an underlying neurosis based on the conflict between dependence and anger, or
as slow suicide (Straussner, 1993).[5]
Other more modern theoretical perspectives focus equally ineffectively on poor ego development, pathological narcissism, or a deficiency in the sense of self (Straussner, 1993).
More useful theories for treating an individual in later-stage recovery[6] suggested that,
the addict attempts to medicate emotional problems such as depression, anxiety and anger;
express dependency needs;
compensate for feelings of inferiority and powerlessness, or
relate to such things as low frustration tolerance, high level of impulsivity, or the inability to endure even low-level anxiety (Straussner, 1993).
Learning and behavioral theorists see addiction as a conditioned response; it produces a pleasurable high (perhaps very pleasurable in some, making them more willing to accept the negative consequences of indulgence) or relieves pain (as suggested above). Because children raised by addicted non-biological parents are at a higher risk of alcoholism than children raised by non-addicted non-biological parents, expectancy, modeling, imitation and identification may also predispose to substance abuse (Straussner, 1993).
4. environmental and cultural factors in general can play a role in the etiology of addiction, such as:
availability of the substance (e.g., many soldiers became addicted to heroin in Vietnam because of [1] the high stress of war, and [2] the availability of the substance, but upon return to civilian life a large proportion of them ceased to have problems with drugs and alcohol);
lack of rewarding alternatives in life (e.g., lack of decent living conditions or opportunity to earn an income, as might be experienced by persons living in a minority ghetto),
influence of mass media, or
social or peer acceptance of use of the substance.
Finally, regardless of the theory of addiction or the predisposition of the person to addiction, almost anyone who takes a mood-altering substance in large quantity for a long enough time will experience physical and/or psychological dependence (Straussner, 1993).
Etiology of alcoholism in homosexuals
People with a homosexual orientation are, of course, subject to all of the multiple risk factors for addiction discussed above. They also have some psychosocial predisposing factors common to all hated minorities, and some unique to the homosexual population. There are many different types of alcoholics; there are many different types of homosexuals, and there are even more types of alcoholic homosexuals (Nardi, 1982).
Common to all hated minorities is the damage done to self-image by the internalization of that hatred. Erikson (1959) asserts that it is impossible for any member of a hated minority to escape that internalized hatred.[7]
Homosexuals are subject to unique stressors, as well. Starting in youth, sometimes as early as school age, sometimes before the homosexual himself[8] is aware of any sexual orientation, he learns some of the dangers of being homosexual:[9] public derision ("Joey is a fagot!"), discrimination ("We don't want a queer on the baseball teem"), and physical harm ("Hit the sissy again!"). The child may be rejected by her family implicitly (Mother overheard: "I'd rather my daughter be dead than be one of those lez-bines.") or explicitly (Father overheard: "You are a homo, you are not my son. Get out of my house.") (Savin-Williams, 1994). In later life he will face discrimination in the workplace and the possibility (only today less prevalent) of arrest and imprisonment for "unnatural acts." Rosario, Hunter & Rotheram-Borus (1992) note,
. . . the experience of being gay or bisexual in our society overwhelms any potential differences in social categories involving age, ethnicity, race, social class or geographical region of the country (p. 19).
The homosexual is unique among minorities in facing hatred and discrimination in that she usually has no role model, no positive example in her family, no loving parent who has gone through the same experience, to support her in her pain. Those discriminated against because they are (for instance) Jewish or African-American usually have families or communities for which this is a common problem. But gay youths are all too often rejected even by their families (Savin-Williams, 1994) and too seldom have yet found their supportive peers and communities.
Facing this external view of herself, no wonder that the homosexual internalizes this hatred and has difficulty with accepting her identity, building self-esteem, and expressing her sexuality. About 65% of all homosexuals seek therapy and give as a reason depression which is a result of adjusting to their homosexuality; of these, 50% started therapy between the ages of 18-21 (Diamond-Friedman, 1990).
In turn, these difficulties lead some to increase their consumption of alcohol or other drugs to aid in the coming-out process, or to medicate the anxiety or depression associated with concealing their identity or facing rejection from family and friends, discrimination in employment and housing, physical assault, arrest or imprisonment.
Colcher (1982) hypothesizes that homosexuals use substances to dull the pain of feeling "different and alone," to reduce "sexual inhibitions" relating to internalized homophobia, and to reduce the stress of the keen competition for good-looking sexual partners.
Nardi (1982) hypothesizes that homosexuals are more at risk of drinking to the point of addiction because the gay life style often revolves (or revolved in 1982) around gay bars, which have a history of permissiveness and protectiveness:
The absence of significant subculturally valued alternatives to drinking settings . . . contributes to the dependency on alcohol as an acceptable solution to feelings of anxiety, alienation and low self-esteem (p. 21).
S
Spartacus
Guest
Prevalence
Various older[10] studies indicate that about one-third of all homosexuals will have a problem with substances at some time in their lives (Diamond-Friedman, 1990). In a more recent study, however, McKirnan & Peterson (1989) come to a strikingly different conclusion. Based on their very large (n=3,400) and well-controlled study, they criticize earlier studies as being biased for several reasons, not the least of which is that they were made in gay bars of the bar-going population. McKirnan & Peterson (1989, p. 549) found the following percentages of homosexuals reporting alcohol problems:
General Homosexual Population Sample
Age Men Women Men Women
Group
18-25 29 16 26 24
26-30 25 7 25 23
31-40 16 8 24 25
41-60 7 4.5 19 15
(overall) (16) (8) (23) (23)
Significantly, up to age 30 the homosexual men in the study show no higher incidence of alcoholism than men in the general population (although homosexual women show significantly higher levels).[11] But after age 30, the high incidence of alcohol problems declines much less in the homosexual population than it does in the general population.
Why are older homosexuals at greater risk of alcoholism? The author has found no sufficient explanation in the literature. McKirnan & Peterson (1989) suggest that psychosocial or cultural variables in the homosexual population might be responsible for increased alcoholism in the later years. They hypothesize that homosexual men and women do not typically enter traditional marriages or childbearing roles as they age, are often not in mainstream occupations, and do not typically adhere to traditional sex roles, all of which encourage control of drinking. The author suggests that more significant than "encouraging the control of drinking," the functions of childbearing and childrearing may have a significant part in the emotional happiness and stability of the parents, being biologically ego-syntonic which, in turn, could relieve feelings of loneliness and lack of fulfillment which give impetus to drink.
Author suggests several other explanations as to why today's older gays have a higher rate of alcoholism:
Today's older homosexuals faced a more closeted life in their young years, with a much higher prevalence of the stressors discussed above. Gay liberation had not yet struck. They began drinking heavily earlier and, addiction being a disease most frequently progressing into middle age before being addressed,[12] were addicted by their middle 30's. Thus, the higher rates of alcoholism in those over 30 shown by McKirnan & Peterson (1989) may be caused by an even higher incidence of alcoholism in the pre-liberation group, which is now in its 30's, 40's and 50's. That male homosexuals under the age of 30 should show no greater incidence of addiction may be a testament to the positive effects of gay liberation.
Another untested hypothesis which occurs to the author is that many older homosexuals (say, over 35) are faced with the daunting task of competing for lovers, friends, and sexual partners in the unrelentingly youth-oriented, beauty-driven gay culture.[13] One of the major tasks of middle age for homosexuals is to reach acceptance that they are no longer able to compete for lovers or sexual partners on the basis of beauty (of which youth, in the homosexual population, is ordinarily a requisite), and accept that their sex and love lives may be substantially less fulfilling, or fulfilling in different ways, than when they were younger. Many homosexuals as they pass 35 turn increasingly to drugs and alcohol for solace and companionship.
Various older[10] studies indicate that about one-third of all homosexuals will have a problem with substances at some time in their lives (Diamond-Friedman, 1990). In a more recent study, however, McKirnan & Peterson (1989) come to a strikingly different conclusion. Based on their very large (n=3,400) and well-controlled study, they criticize earlier studies as being biased for several reasons, not the least of which is that they were made in gay bars of the bar-going population. McKirnan & Peterson (1989, p. 549) found the following percentages of homosexuals reporting alcohol problems:
General Homosexual Population Sample
Age Men Women Men Women
Group
18-25 29 16 26 24
26-30 25 7 25 23
31-40 16 8 24 25
41-60 7 4.5 19 15
(overall) (16) (8) (23) (23)
Significantly, up to age 30 the homosexual men in the study show no higher incidence of alcoholism than men in the general population (although homosexual women show significantly higher levels).[11] But after age 30, the high incidence of alcohol problems declines much less in the homosexual population than it does in the general population.
Why are older homosexuals at greater risk of alcoholism? The author has found no sufficient explanation in the literature. McKirnan & Peterson (1989) suggest that psychosocial or cultural variables in the homosexual population might be responsible for increased alcoholism in the later years. They hypothesize that homosexual men and women do not typically enter traditional marriages or childbearing roles as they age, are often not in mainstream occupations, and do not typically adhere to traditional sex roles, all of which encourage control of drinking. The author suggests that more significant than "encouraging the control of drinking," the functions of childbearing and childrearing may have a significant part in the emotional happiness and stability of the parents, being biologically ego-syntonic which, in turn, could relieve feelings of loneliness and lack of fulfillment which give impetus to drink.
Author suggests several other explanations as to why today's older gays have a higher rate of alcoholism:
Today's older homosexuals faced a more closeted life in their young years, with a much higher prevalence of the stressors discussed above. Gay liberation had not yet struck. They began drinking heavily earlier and, addiction being a disease most frequently progressing into middle age before being addressed,[12] were addicted by their middle 30's. Thus, the higher rates of alcoholism in those over 30 shown by McKirnan & Peterson (1989) may be caused by an even higher incidence of alcoholism in the pre-liberation group, which is now in its 30's, 40's and 50's. That male homosexuals under the age of 30 should show no greater incidence of addiction may be a testament to the positive effects of gay liberation.
Another untested hypothesis which occurs to the author is that many older homosexuals (say, over 35) are faced with the daunting task of competing for lovers, friends, and sexual partners in the unrelentingly youth-oriented, beauty-driven gay culture.[13] One of the major tasks of middle age for homosexuals is to reach acceptance that they are no longer able to compete for lovers or sexual partners on the basis of beauty (of which youth, in the homosexual population, is ordinarily a requisite), and accept that their sex and love lives may be substantially less fulfilling, or fulfilling in different ways, than when they were younger. Many homosexuals as they pass 35 turn increasingly to drugs and alcohol for solace and companionship.
jnevin said:
since graduating college i have
-worked in a carpenters union for 5 yrs
-ran a car rental business up untill last feb.
2 career fields, 3 different companies.
so you bring up my record, you should know that i have a charge of misd pot possession, over a decade ago.
i'm gonna be a fireman, volunteer at first untill i can get on full time...not as cool/exciting as ripping people off on mortgage loans, but at least i can make a difference in people's lives and enjoy going to work everday...something that i've never heard someone in the mortgage industry claim
jnevin
New member
I worked in a club that had a geigh night when I first moved out here. I do think the % of geighs vs. non-geighs that uses drugs is higher in the geighs favor. So many of them I got to know outside of the club were depressed and had so many issues. Didn't make them bad people, I'm an alcoholic and get depressed too. I just think they tend to self medicate to deal with the fact that their lifestyle isn't really accepted. That sucks.
well, be glad that you found something you dug and stuck with it.jnevin said:
i wasn't that lucky...i could've made a decent living doing my union thing but i wanted more out of life.
hopefully i find what i'm looking for...and if i don't, at least i know that i attempted, which is more than most unhappy office drones can say
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Spartacus
Guest
I really don't know why jerseyrugger got so irritated with mejnevin said:
he criticized my sample of 12,but hell that's still a lot of men to get aquainted with on a employer/employee basis
two of those 12 were decent workers
and one was an older man who drank heavily daily,but did his job well
I worked in the bar,hotel,restaurant industry for 15 years prior to my current occupation
I worked for gay managers,partied with them,etc.etc.
where would you go to get a good sample of homosexual behavior besides gay bars?
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Spartacus
Guest
and I apologize for the tone of the earlier posts
they're made in response to AAP's hateful demeanor
they're made in response to AAP's hateful demeanor
competitive bro, got me a bit shook.H_T_ said:
for example in texas-fort worth, they had 30 openings, 3k applicants.
even though i've got ten years between my last law scrape, it may factor in some instances.
i might do the forest service fire thing for the summer, i could get hired on a engine crew fairly easily
sad that's what michigan has turned into, a hardscrabble place.H_T_ said:
my pops used to tell me about how his fellow classmates dropped out in high school to go work factory auto jobs.
and they made good middle class lives for themselves, house in the burbs and a weekend retreat up north.
now in days you can't do that, even with a college degree
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