WHOA! Be Careful With HCG!!!

[NorCalBdyBldr]

Hi Nelson,
I have been HRT a long time. One of my physicians had an idea to take me off of testosterone to see if he could accomplish it with Androgel and/or HCG since I don't seem to produce LH or FSH (this was true before I ever did any AAS and is related to a health condition so my situation may be a bit atypical). I told him that I doubted that it would work because I metabolize testosterone too fast for some reason and I didn't think Androgel would get enough in fast enough.

It turns out that Androgel at 10 gm/day only raised my testosterone levels about 60 ng/dl. HCG at 10,000 per week raised my testosterone levels about 100 ng/dl and together, they were only able to get me up to 230 ng/dl of total testosterone and this is after 5 months of trying and misery.

Ultimately, I was put back on injectible testosterone. Later, I had a physician that figured that adding HCG plus injectible testosterone would help level out the peaks and valleys of once per week testosterone injections. While this seemed to help a slight amount, it was finally determined that it is just better to take two shots per week rather than one. This is because for some reason I metabolize testosterone very quickly so the peaks and valleys are more pronounced than in most people.

Based on this, I don't see that HCG does that much to raise testosterone levels all that much from MY experience. It does make your balls swell up nice and firm though. I have largely discountinued using it because I tend to feel that it doesn't do enough to make it worth taking it.

 

[JP@Ironology]

Interesting comments and observations in this thread.

Thanks guys.

 

[thx9000]

I gotta disagree with you on this one doc.

First of all, I think 3 weeks is way too long for HCG.

Secondly, Nolva never did a damn thing for my recovery, and had some negitive sides.

Nolva is mainly for preventing gyno but I didn't have any symptoms of gyno.

What about nolva for LH secretion/production?

 

[Frango]

Dose

Nelson, out of curiosity, what is your HRT dosage and ester?
I have a natural 842 Test (dont know the free test) and am thinking about a low-dose cycle. This info would help me a lot, thanks!

 

[Nelson Montana]

HRT and a low dose cycle is two different things. That's a healthy T level you have. It takes 100 mgs a week for me to get in that range.

 

[Frango]

I understand the difference, Nelson, I only wanted to figure out how much exogenous test it takes to reach a level like ours.

Is it safe to assume that if you doubled the dose, your total levels would be double, and the free just a tad higher, or there is not such a direct correlation?

On a side note, I believe that a "T-freening" agent (like avena or neetles or both) would be very useful on a cycle, and if I recall you were the one who wrote that, right? Any thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[Nelson Montana]

The increase in T isn't exponential to the amount administered but obviously, the more you inject. the more you'll have. And yes, it all comes down to the free T. Herbs can help. That's the premise behind Unleashed from PF.

 

[Frango]

Great Nelson, I want to take the most out of the smallest amount of test. Avena and nettles will be in.

Thank you!

 

[DJ_UFO]

So the problem with 6-OXO is basically raises test but raises est too?
that would be a good feedback to the manufacturers...

 

[Generic MALE]

HCG raises both test and estrogen because it stimulates the testicles in general. It stimulates spermatogenesis and endocrine functions. The testes directly make testo and estrogen. later some of the estrogen can aromatize. anabolics and aromatase inhibitors (arimidex, letrozole tc) raise aromatase levels. SOme AS elevate aromatase more than others - testo raises aromatase levels more than anavar for example.

By taking HCG at the end of a cycle you get direct estrogen and testosterone production, and increased conversion of testo because of elevated aromatase levels.

in my mind I have wondered the benefits of using just nolvadex during a cycle to try and keep aromatase levels down (and improving cholesterol profile) and using aromatase inhibitors only after the cycle for recovery. Also ending a cycle with anabolics that do not stimulate aromatase production as much (more anavar, less testo etc) so as to allow the body to start reducing the levels of aromatase. Its just thinking - no research to back up that it would be more effective.