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When YOU bulk on gear
- Thread starter JKurz1
- Start date
Joe Stenson
New member
If you want the most out of your cycle, stay dialed in. However, sometimes a cheat can ease the mind and you always want to be in a good psychological state. So basically I'd say don't forbid yourself from cheating, but only do it as necessary, ie. I wouldn't really plan it out.
organon250
New member
I think most of us will admit we eat alot better when cutting its just to easy to rationalize when bulking and i don't see a big problem with splurging once a week like one meal on a sat or something where you eat whatever. the problem is when you let your diet go to complete shit 2 meals a day five days a week then it starts adding up...if your bulking I see no problem throwing those bars in here and there for mid morning or afternoon snacks but its also dependant if your a hard gainer they'll probably help you as you'll need the extra cals but if you have to constantly fight the bulge they may not be the best idea....just sorta depends on what category you feel you fall into.
Joe Stenson
New member
organon250 said:
To be honest, I'm the opposite. I rationalize cheating on a cut way more often than on a bulk (metabolism boost, losing too much muscle, already in a caloric deficit so the extra cals won't really hurt me, etc.).
If you're bulking, you're already in a caloric surplus. A cheat just puts you in a bigger surplus and BAM! Fat gain. At least if you're cutting you're just slowing your progress, not really doing anything noticeable.
JKurz1
Banned
thanks fellas........although I dont think my cals or anywhere near where they should be......
2nd ? - Is it shitty to get more than 1/2 of your total protein from cottage cheese? I'm eating probably 2 tubs (little less) a day........the macros are incred, but didnt know if this was a shitty source....
1 Tub = 360 calories, 80g of protein, 4 carbs, 2g of fat, and 2g of sugar....also, very very littl e sodium.......
2nd ? - Is it shitty to get more than 1/2 of your total protein from cottage cheese? I'm eating probably 2 tubs (little less) a day........the macros are incred, but didnt know if this was a shitty source....
1 Tub = 360 calories, 80g of protein, 4 carbs, 2g of fat, and 2g of sugar....also, very very littl e sodium.......
Güclü_oglan
New member
cottage cheese is the shitJKurz1 said:
Joe Stenson
New member
Cottage cheese is basically all casein. You want to spread your protein around, but that's as good a source as any. I wouldn't worry about it. I eat 2 tubs/day as well and my tubs are bigger than that 
.
.Joe Stenson
New member
saleen556 said:
Bastard! on both accounts
riverrock
New member
I'm glad you posted this thread up. Let me tell you about the mistake I made as a novice a few years ago. I did all the reading up and figured out that i'd need 6000 calories and 220 grams of protein minimum. Decided that as long as I got this in, I'd be sorted for my cycle of sustanon. So, when I went to the supermarket, as long as the product had a high protein count, I bought it. Anyhow, the problem was that I didn't study the labels carefully enough as the high sodium count on some of the processed foods I bought sent my water through the roof. they also contained a high fat content meaning that I looked full of water and fat by the end of my cycle. It meant I had a great body under a layer of lard. Stupid mistake that made cutting alot more difficult. Don't let your diet go to shit or you'll deny yourself all the benefits you deserve after bursting your Ass in the gym. There is nothing at all to be gained from carrying unnecessary bodyfat, so keep your diet clean.
JKurz1
Banned
Ok...so a few tubs a day, with fruit and splenda is decent?
Some other questions...........60 peanuts (30 shelled) + 1/2 tub cc too much for a prebed meal?
Subway and Quiznos, you guys ever toss them in for a meat packed lunch?
I just need more cals, think all the fiberous veggies and oats are making me too full.....may have to go mac and cheese or PB&Js by the dozen..........protein bar anyone?
Some other questions...........60 peanuts (30 shelled) + 1/2 tub cc too much for a prebed meal?
Subway and Quiznos, you guys ever toss them in for a meat packed lunch?
I just need more cals, think all the fiberous veggies and oats are making me too full.....may have to go mac and cheese or PB&Js by the dozen..........protein bar anyone?
Joe Stenson
New member
JKurz1 said:
Not a big fan of fruit myself. Never been big on the taste even as a kid, and it's not the best choice of carbs from a bodybuilding standpoint. That being said, there's really nothing "wrong" with it and it is healthy.
JKurz1 said:
No clue how many cals 60 peanuts is. Convert that into tbsp of peanut butter and then you're talking my language, lol. 1/2 tub CC is good though.
JKurz1 said:
Subs can really go either way. Keep them clean (just loaded with meat, veggies, and not much sauce) and the only thing you really have to worry about is the sodium. Then you start talking about meatball subs and you're not doing so well anymore...
JKurz1 said:
You can try not cooking the oats; they won't be nearly as filling this way. Otherwise, you can always load up on healthy fats. Natty peanut butter, nuts, olive oil, etc. aren't very filling.
swordfish151
New member
JKurz1 said:
hmm..hate cottage cheese but that sounds good..whats the ratios?
concordsize
New member
Bulking is a word that alot of people use as an excuse to get fat.
Joe Stenson
New member
riverrock said:Thank you very much for that informative and helpful insight into the world of nutrition and bodybuilding science.
lol, he's right though
Underworld
New member
Thought this would be a good place to post. I'm currently starting training after a long break and I'm carrying a few extra pounds.
My question is, do I cut up first, then bulk from there. Or do I just jump straight into the bulker then shed the pounds afterwards.
I'm leaning a bit towards cutting first, only because I don't want to lose any muscle gained on the bulking.
My question is, do I cut up first, then bulk from there. Or do I just jump straight into the bulker then shed the pounds afterwards.
I'm leaning a bit towards cutting first, only because I don't want to lose any muscle gained on the bulking.
Joe Stenson
New member
Underworld said:
An untrained individual (or someone coming off a long hiatus in your case) can probably do both at the same time if you eat around maintenance.
If you want to do one or the other though, I'd cut. You're only going to get fatter on a bulk.
concordsize
New member
On average enhanced individuals gain 5-7 lbs a year. Chalk it up into bulking and cutting it doesnt matter. Lean body mass wise you will not gain and KEEP more than 5-10 lbs a year unless you are running large amounts of GH. I will say that one can gain and keep alot of fat. I gaurantee if you guys who have been juicing for 4+ years take there starting weight and add5-7 lbs per year that you have juiced you will come up with at or near your current weight.
IMO you should get on a cycle and avoid heavy carb use and do 40min of low intense cardio a day. I can assure you that you will look 10x better than if you bulked then cut. Actually if thoes words were never used again i would be happy.lol
IMO you should get on a cycle and avoid heavy carb use and do 40min of low intense cardio a day. I can assure you that you will look 10x better than if you bulked then cut. Actually if thoes words were never used again i would be happy.lol
Joe Stenson
New member
concordsize said:
Wtf, this advice is horrible. That's like telling a newbie he should hit the sauce right away
.concordsize
New member
How is "IMO you should get on a cycle and avoid heavy carb use and do 40min of low intense cardio a day. I can assure you that you will look 10x better than if you bulked then cut." bad advice? The guy is going to get on a cycle either way. IMO he can easily gain lbm and loose some fat in the process.
So how again is that like telling a newbie he should hit the sauce right away?
So how again is that like telling a newbie he should hit the sauce right away?
Joe Stenson
New member
concordsize said:
He didn't mention anything about juicing, period. You can "bulk" and "cut" naturally you know...
Someone who hasn't worked out in a long time and a newbie are basically the same in the way their bodies respond to lifting.
concordsize
New member
Did it ever cross you mind that maybe i was replying to the main post?
silverbackn
New member
To respond to the original question, this is a very individual scenario. What puts weight on the average person would make me lose weight. What I use to gain weight might not put an ounce on someone else. Genetics, muscle mass, hormone levels, training style, cardio, stress, job, sleep, etc, these all affect what and how much you eat. Some people need to stay tight with diet in order to keep from getting sloppy, I have to eat sloppy to put any weight on. I can force feed myself clean food and I will do nothing but lose weight. I have gone as high as 1,000 g's of carbs a day for extended periods of time (before I ever juiced), I couldn't get over 240 at 6'1. I still had visible abs. Others would eat this way and balloon up and look horrible. We are all different.
concordsize
New member
my mouth is shut. 
silverbackn
New member
It just depends on if you want to be sloppy so you can feed your ego and be a little stronger. What happens when the extra weight (fat) comes off? The strength leaves town too. Your body can only build muscle so fast especially if you are advanced. Obviously you need a surplus of calories to grow, but most just get fat and call it bulking. Your bodyfat should never be over 15% as a bb'er, I prefer to never get over 12%. Just comes down to what your goals are. Your body puts on fat way faster than it will put on muscle.view said:
JKurz1
Banned
My problem is I really enjoy veggies, salads, etc..........I think they bloat me to a point where I feel like I'm getting enough food, but it's just not caloire dense.......For example, my third meal will consist of 6oz of lean meat, 6oz yam and a platefull of steamed veggies with a salad..........probably should be more like 8oz of each and cut back on the veggies........
Also, my final meal of the day, which is my first and only meal after I train (due to my schedule) falls about 5 minutes before I crash. Sometimes, I crash in the middle of my meal, due to exhaustion.....sure, I have a shake immidiately PW, but my only meal is:
30-40 unsalted peanuts
1/2 tub of cottage cheese
thick 32 oz skim, egg white, casein shake.......prob. about 600cals, but like I said, it's minutes before bed. Is this effecting my gains in a neg. matter? Am I messing up the digestion process? I could grab a subway (chicken)on the way home if it would be better, than crash 1hr later..........any suggestions?
Also, my final meal of the day, which is my first and only meal after I train (due to my schedule) falls about 5 minutes before I crash. Sometimes, I crash in the middle of my meal, due to exhaustion.....sure, I have a shake immidiately PW, but my only meal is:
30-40 unsalted peanuts
1/2 tub of cottage cheese
thick 32 oz skim, egg white, casein shake.......prob. about 600cals, but like I said, it's minutes before bed. Is this effecting my gains in a neg. matter? Am I messing up the digestion process? I could grab a subway (chicken)on the way home if it would be better, than crash 1hr later..........any suggestions?
Joe Stenson
New member
concordsize said:
No, it did not, haha.
Next time you should address someone, whoever it may be, to avoid the confusion.
JKurz1 said:
I don't think there's a problem with that last meal per se, especially if it's only 600 cals (looks like more to me). That's almost a perfect pre-bed meal IMO, except for the fact that in your case it's also the post-workout meal. The time of day you workout should be somewhat irrelevant when planning the PWO meal. You should still be having protein + CARBS (usually no fat, but I don't think it will hurt you either).
Now I know you're not on a low carb diet because I see carbs in your earlier meals of the day. Carbs should be centered around your training. If you're eating them all day then fine, don't worry about it. But if there's one meal you don't want to skimp on the carbs while bulking, it's PWO.
Also, as good as they may be for you from a health standpoint, if veggies are preventing you from reaching your bodybuilding goals I'd cut back on them a bit. Bodybuilding isn't exactly the healthiest pursuit in the first place, no need to pretend it is. Eat as many as you can handle, but if they're filling you up too much you really have no choice but to drop some. Throw a multivitamin into your daily supplement list if you don't already, and I'm sure you'll see no ill effects.
Joe Stenson
New member
JKurz1 said:
Pre-workout is more important for strength purposes. Post-workout is more important for recovery and anabolism. To each their own.
Joe Stenson
New member
To serve what purpose?
I'm doing UD2 right now, so my daily diet is going to be completely irrelevant to you.
I'm doing UD2 right now, so my daily diet is going to be completely irrelevant to you.
Joe Stenson
New member
JKurz1 said:
Bulking diet or the current UD2 cutting diet?
Joe Stenson
New member
Bulk (this is a workout day...non-workout day usually go no/low carbs and up fats big-time):
Meal 1: 10 whole eggs + 1 cup oats
Meal 2: 300g dry curd cottage cheese + 1 cup oats
Meal 3: 15 egg whites + 2-3 cups brown rice
Workout
During workout: about 70g carbs worth of Gatorade
Post-workout: 2 scoops whey
Meal 4: 170g chicken + 2 cups brown rice + veggies
Meal 5: 300g dry curd cottage cheese + salad w/3 tbsp olive oil + vinegar dressing
Meal 6: 300g dry curd cottage cheese + 1/4 cup walnuts
Calories: ~4800
UD2 Cut:
Mon-Wed: ~1200 calories, basically all protein (cottage cheese) + some veggies + 6g fish oil
Thurs during day: 75% of Mon-Wed diet
Thurs night + Friday: 1400-1500g carbs + bodyweight in protein, low fat
Sat-Sun: ~3000 calories, 1-1.5g/lb bodyweight in protein + 100g fat, rest is carbs
Stats: 5'11 220 ~13-14% (and dropping, while retaining muscle...Yay for UD2!)
Meal 1: 10 whole eggs + 1 cup oats
Meal 2: 300g dry curd cottage cheese + 1 cup oats
Meal 3: 15 egg whites + 2-3 cups brown rice
Workout
During workout: about 70g carbs worth of Gatorade
Post-workout: 2 scoops whey
Meal 4: 170g chicken + 2 cups brown rice + veggies
Meal 5: 300g dry curd cottage cheese + salad w/3 tbsp olive oil + vinegar dressing
Meal 6: 300g dry curd cottage cheese + 1/4 cup walnuts
Calories: ~4800
UD2 Cut:
Mon-Wed: ~1200 calories, basically all protein (cottage cheese) + some veggies + 6g fish oil
Thurs during day: 75% of Mon-Wed diet
Thurs night + Friday: 1400-1500g carbs + bodyweight in protein, low fat
Sat-Sun: ~3000 calories, 1-1.5g/lb bodyweight in protein + 100g fat, rest is carbs
Stats: 5'11 220 ~13-14% (and dropping, while retaining muscle...Yay for UD2!)
swordfish151
New member
Joe Stenson said:
pardone my ignorance, but what is the UD2 diet?
Joe Stenson
New member
swordfish151 said:
Ultimate Diet 2.0 by Lyle McDonald. The purpose of the diet is fat loss, but with full muscle and strength retention. The week is basically divided into 2 parts: extremely low carb/cal + high activity aimed at depleting glycogen (fat loss part of the diet), followed by a large carb up and a couple days at maintenance where you make sure that muscle and strength is being kept.
The biggest key is that the training and nutrition goals are aligned together, ie. you're not trying to perform heavy lifts on low cals.
Joe Stenson
New member
JKurz1 said:
The diet is actually designed for "lean" individuals to spare muscle mass. The highest bodyfat you should be before even considering the diet is 15%, 12% is even better.
If you're talking about losing a ton of weight, Lyle has another diet called the Protein Sparing Modified Fast (PSMF). For this diet, you eat 1-1.5g protein/lb bodyweight + 6g fish oil daily and only refeed when you feel it's necessary. The refeed lasts for a day and then you're right back on the super low cals. This diet is aimed strictly at fat loss, muscle/strength retention isn't considered and it's shown by the fact that training is haphazard (basically whenever you want to do it).
sandman_007
New member
Guys, what is your definition of letting your diet slide and cheating?
Does that mean a downright binge on fried chicken, french fries, cake, dairy queen blizzards and cookies, or does it simply mean eating an occasional dessert, say once a week?
i am just courious to see what you mean.......because i have really never preferred a large portion of fatty sweets or a meal. It makes my stomach feel upset, so i never eat like that. Occasionally, i'll have some, but i can't have too much or i feel bad (stomach sick)
If that's the definition then i guess i never really let my diet slide. For example, if i go out to eat, a fatty entree never looks appetizing. At an italian resturant, chicken picatta, or marsala is what i usually have, i never have fettuccini alfredo, or veal parmesan for an entree. it just doesn't give me a proper feeling of being full
Does that mean a downright binge on fried chicken, french fries, cake, dairy queen blizzards and cookies, or does it simply mean eating an occasional dessert, say once a week?
i am just courious to see what you mean.......because i have really never preferred a large portion of fatty sweets or a meal. It makes my stomach feel upset, so i never eat like that. Occasionally, i'll have some, but i can't have too much or i feel bad (stomach sick)
If that's the definition then i guess i never really let my diet slide. For example, if i go out to eat, a fatty entree never looks appetizing. At an italian resturant, chicken picatta, or marsala is what i usually have, i never have fettuccini alfredo, or veal parmesan for an entree. it just doesn't give me a proper feeling of being full
Singleton
New member
I don't really "bulk", but just not cutting. So it's more like not cutting or cutting.
Bulking for me is eating more carbs. Not getting fat on unhealthy foods. I'll eat more overall and more carbs, but healthy carbs. No trans fats or sweets. Lots of greens, maybe more olive oil, nuts, breads, pasta. Protein is always high no matter what I'm doing.
Pretty much what riverrock said.
Bulking for me is eating more carbs. Not getting fat on unhealthy foods. I'll eat more overall and more carbs, but healthy carbs. No trans fats or sweets. Lots of greens, maybe more olive oil, nuts, breads, pasta. Protein is always high no matter what I'm doing.
Pretty much what riverrock said.
Joe Stenson
New member
sandman_007 said:
There's different levels of cheating. I think both examples you gave classify. I also don't think either are a problem if not performed on a regular basis.
JKurz1
Banned
Joe - youve seen my diet.........what if I'm strict as hell on it M-F, then Friday night - SUnday I let loose. Not crazy but maybe go out to dinner all 3 nights. Get like some pasta and a steak or fat burger and a glass or 3 of wine. Mistake?
If not, would you also eat your prebed meal?
If not, would you also eat your prebed meal?
Joe Stenson
New member
JKurz1 said:
I don't think you should PLAN to go out for dinner all 3 nights, but if something comes up I don't think it's a problem. Flexibility is always good to have in one's diet.
If you have one meal that's significantly larger than normal, I wouldn't drop other meals altogether, but you can definitely make them smaller. At least still have some protein before bed.
