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UPDATE to 1.5 years and Still Shudown

Generic MALE said:
So what does your doctor think of HGH for the low IGF-1 levels?

He doesn't feel it's a big deal. He say's the IGF-1 levels will also increase during my treatment. Regardless, he did give me the option of HGH. Currently taking 1 IU ED Norditropin.
 
Jenetic said:
He doesn't feel it's a big deal. He say's the IGF-1 levels will also increase during my treatment. Regardless, he did give me the option of HGH. Currently taking 1 IU ED Norditropin.

Are you gaining size back now?
 
Nathan said:
Are you gaining size back now?

The treatment has been going fantastic. My strength and endurance is significantly increasing every week. It's funny because it looks like I am making gains that a cycle would give me. No supplements involved including protein shakes. Only solid foods. I finally have what it takes again to sustain a full blown workout.
 
Jenetic I was wondering if you had already or might consider running a-dex by itself in order to "shock" your body into producing more testosterone . I have read at least 3 different studies here on the board that indictate user's in the study have had increases of up to 53% in T levels...
 
Jenetic said:
I have been analyzing various factors and my brain is about to explode with the ammount of information I have been trying to process. Finally, it is all starting to make some sense, to some extent. This is just a theory based on some studies I have read and should not be taken too seriously. Some of the stuidies were perfomed on rats which could severely throw this theory off because the results of the studies may be species dependant.

It seems that FSH may enhance the responsiveness of Leydig cells to LH. One study showed that FSH treatment induced Leydig cell hyperplasia, increased the number of testicular LH receptors, and increased the steroidogenic response of Leydig cells to LH. FSH further enhanced the steroidogenic capacity of Leydig cells and induced a significant increase in the number of hCG receptors which would increase the the sensitivity and effectiveness of HCG. If this is all "true", it would make sense to use a combination of HCG and HMG (FSH/LH) to initiate and maintain restoration of normal Testosterone secretion and achieve spermatogenesis in people

I found this study that concluded that FSH + LH did not provide anything above LH on its own. Here is the summary paragraphs:

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In the present study, the increase in mean plasma T levels induced by rhLH was not enhanced by the concomitant administration of rhFSH, despite the effective stimulation of Sertoli cell function, attested by the increase in plasma inhibin B. The same result was observed with a greater increase in plasma T levels after hCG and hCG plus rhFSH administration. These results are in agreement with recent studies performed in primates (30). Indeed, in juvenile rhesus monkeys receiving a pulsatile iv infusion of GnRH, the concomitant infusion of rhFSH did not affect either the mean plasma levels of T or the amplitude of pulsatile testicular T secretion. Therefore, in man as in primates, the physiological relevance of a role of FSH in LH-induced testicular steroidogenesis seems questionable.

In conclusion, complete acquired HH and the use of rhLH and rhFSH enable the functions of Leydig and Sertoli cells to be studied selectively. Apart from peripheral aromatization of testicular T, the increase of plasma E2 induced by rhLH and the absence of an effect of rhFSH is consistent with the view that Leydig cells are the major site of testicular E2 production in man. The secretion of inhibin B, increased by rhFSH and not by rhLH, confirms that Sertoli cells are the main source of inhibin B production. Finally, the increase in plasma T induced by rhLH or hCG was not enhanced by rhFSH. These results suggest that the stimulatory effect of FSH on Leydig cell steroidogenesis by a Sertoli cell paracrine factor does not seem to play a major physiological role in man.
 
Mr. Black said:
Jenetic I was wondering if you had already or might consider running a-dex by itself in order to "shock" your body into producing more testosterone . I have read at least 3 different studies here on the board that indictate user's in the study have had increases of up to 53% in T levels...

Mr.B,

I am fully aware of what you are saying. Take a further look at those studies. The first thing you will notice is the decrease it causes in IGF-1. Also, there are studies that show that it tampers with your lipid profile.

Aromasin would be that way to go in this situation. I am acutally considering it right now. No impact to IGF-1 and lipid profile in addition to the increase in testosterone. Obviously the increase will be short lived and will subside after discontiuation, but the benefits might be worth it for a temporary period of time. This may prove to be a new PCT option to be used in conjunction to HCG. Something to think about.

Jenetic
 
Jenetic said:
Mr.B,
Obviously the increase will be short lived and will subside after discontiuation, but the benefits might be worth it for a temporary period of time.Jenetic

Unfortunately in the studies they did no mention the long term status of the testosterone boost. It's obvious that any test level above and beyond one's genetic make-up simply will not hold. However, if your current T is indeed below those of your pre-AAS days, the new testosterone sustained from the aromasin just might set a new homeostasis (seeing as your T used to be there already). This is just my theory but who knows, it's definitely worth a shot. Good luck
 
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