Underground Labs

[blut wump]

I don't think the same sterility issues apply to orals. The digestive system is designed to cater to a lot of gunk and general filth. The insides aren't so designed and don't have the same degree of natural protection. If you permit something 'unclean' under the skin you are taking a risk of infection.

 

[satchboogie]

Playing devils advocate then and sterility & dosage is easily acomplished even when making multiple vials opf product for resale why do we read about so many Abscess problems and tests prove very inconsistant results of both over and under dosing?

My personal view is that whilst you may take every care to get it right as you would be injecting into your own body the thread was regarding UG labs which is set up to resell product with the ''chemist'' never injecting anything into him / her self.

Again if we compare to the stringent tests Human Grade (i.e. pharm grade) products are subjected too prior to being allowed for resale into the medical market why are these so many / preocess orientated if realistically they could reduce it all but realistically all that is required is distilled water, an oven, and maybe some iso alcohol???

Do you really believe that is all that is needed to consistantly produce sterile, accurately dosed product for human consumption? if so i am astonished at how cheaply many ''risk'' their bodies that they spend years developing. If we are all honest AAS at their purist most sterile are not without risk.

Financially we spend so much on food, gyms, supplements and then try and reduce the outlay on oils we inject........amazing but just my take on it and i do understand being in the UK i do not face some of the issues that are everyday in USA

Wrongun!

that pretty much sumarizes it all..
logic, rationale... and basically the BOTTOM LINE!

 

[JuicedAthletics]

Off topic
Blut Wump you look like a pretty big dude but damn, feed your poor dog.... Messing around.. Cool dog.. Greyhound? My boy just got one from a rescue org..

 

[eliteforce]

..but if Mr. Nokia heats up all the stuff when he prepares it in his kitchen and uses the whatmans, and covers his face and uses gloves, and quickly seals up the prepared solutions so they don't get exposed to air too much, as long as he's not some lazy jerk that cuts corners..I think should be a safe-bet

 

[used2juice]

Playing devils advocate then and sterility & dosage is easily acomplished even when making multiple vials opf product for resale why do we read about so many Abscess problems and tests prove very inconsistant results of both over and under dosing?

My personal view is that whilst you may take every care to get it right as you would be injecting into your own body the thread was regarding UG labs which is set up to resell product with the ''chemist'' never injecting anything into him / her self.

Again if we compare to the stringent tests Human Grade (i.e. pharm grade) products are subjected too prior to being allowed for resale into the medical market why are these so many / preocess orientated if realistically they could reduce it all but realistically all that is required is distilled water, an oven, and maybe some iso alcohol???

Do you really believe that is all that is needed to consistantly produce sterile, accurately dosed product for human consumption? if so i am astonished at how cheaply many ''risk'' their bodies that they spend years developing. If we are all honest AAS at their purist most sterile are not without risk.

Financially we spend so much on food, gyms, supplements and then try and reduce the outlay on oils we inject........amazing but just my take on it and i do understand being in the UK i do not face some of the issues that are everyday in USA

Wrongun!

To answer your questions in order, I VERY rarely read about abcesses AT ALL ANYWHERE on these boards. I read a few isolated posts from kids who THINK they MAY have abcesses but then it turns out to be just swelling. I personally am not aware with anymore abcess cases coming from ug gear as opposed to human grade gear. I believe that most abcesses occur simply due to poor injection procedures.

As far as inconsistent dosing, I believe many of those tests were done back when powder suppliers were mostly middlemen. Now that "factory direct" powders are a reality, I believe tests will become far more consistent. Now there will always be a lab or two who tries to overdose things to a huge extent because they think it makes them look good. But if you do it correctly, you should easily be within 5% of the intended dose.

As for why they use more complex processes to sterilize their products, I can only imagine this has to do with guidlines set by their respective governments. And just because the gov't says that's what you have to do, doesn't mean it is what's necessary. I think everyone on here should be at least FAMILIAR with governments beaurocracy

Lastly, I do not BELIEVE that is all that's needed to produce sterile products, I KNOW that is all that's needed. That is why I do not in any way consider what I buy "taking a risk." If I did, I wouldn't purchase. But in two years with the same 1-2 guys (not to mention occassionally making my own), I have yet to have a single problem, nor have I heard of any problems. As such, I feel it's a pretty safe bet.

But in the end, if people feel like spending 2-3 times what I do for the same products, who am I to tell them not to?

 

[Wrongun]

To answer your questions in order, I VERY rarely read about abcesses AT ALL ANYWHERE on these boards. I read a few isolated posts from kids who THINK they MAY have abcesses but then it turns out to be just swelling. I personally am not aware with anymore abcess cases coming from ug gear as opposed to human grade gear. I believe that most abcesses occur simply due to poor injection procedures.

As far as inconsistent dosing, I believe many of those tests were done back when powder suppliers were mostly middlemen. Now that "factory direct" powders are a reality, I believe tests will become far more consistent. Now there will always be a lab or two who tries to overdose things to a huge extent because they think it makes them look good. But if you do it correctly, you should easily be within 5% of the intended dose.

As for why they use more complex processes to sterilize their products, I can only imagine this has to do with guidlines set by their respective governments. And just because the gov't says that's what you have to do, doesn't mean it is what's necessary. I think everyone on here should be at least FAMILIAR with governments beaurocracy

Lastly, I do not BELIEVE that is all that's needed to produce sterile products, I KNOW that is all that's needed. That is why I do not in any way consider what I buy "taking a risk." If I did, I wouldn't purchase. But in two years with the same 1-2 guys (not to mention occassionally making my own), I have yet to have a single problem, nor have I heard of any problems. As such, I feel it's a pretty safe bet.

But in the end, if people feel like spending 2-3 times what I do for the same products, who am I to tell them not to?

I have to say i disagree with you but that is the benefit of debate.

I have read about many abcesses and seen many tests where the prodcut in the vial is nothing like what is stated on the label but as you say you have used for 2 years and not an issue which proves the process is possible.

my poingt is that there are so many new labs being created on a daily basis to create a profit. Now you may put the plethora of quality control / sterility processes down to governments beaurocracy but come on surely even you must believe that is not the only reason why the multi million investments required are deployed and they don't all revert to your suggested methodology.

I have never said it is not possible but how can we be sure that the quality is there / remains over time with all these new UG labs. What prevents them just pouring solution into a vial and missing your method all together as it may increase profit by 30%?

Anyway i am sure you get my point and am actually suprised at many peoples confidence in these labs

Wrongun!

 

[used2juice]

I have to say i disagree with you but that is the benefit of debate.

I have read about many abcesses and seen many tests where the prodcut in the vial is nothing like what is stated on the label but as you say you have used for 2 years and not an issue which proves the process is possible.

my poingt is that there are so many new labs being created on a daily basis to create a profit. Now you may put the plethora of quality control / sterility processes down to governments beaurocracy but come on surely even you must believe that is not the only reason why the multi million investments required are deployed and they don't all revert to your suggested methodology.

I have never said it is not possible but how can we be sure that the quality is there / remains over time with all these new UG labs. What prevents them just pouring solution into a vial and missing your method all together as it may increase profit by 30%?

Anyway i am sure you get my point and am actually suprised at many peoples confidence in these labs

Wrongun!

Well hell, I agree with most of what you said there. There are alltogether too many new ug's popping up everywhere, many of which are of poor quality. Fortunately for us ug users, these guys will usually last no more than a few months before people start questioning them and they leave the scene. And the few intelligent of us will not always shop around for the best deal, but rather stick with a proven ug who we have always had success with. However I DO see way too many guys jumping all over the cheapest vial of test they can find, and THAT is poor judgement.

However--about the lab tests--keep in mind that there haven't been any tests posted anywhere I've seen since "factory direct" powders have been around. I really do believe this is going to make for more accurate products.

Lastly, going back to the sterility issue, part of the reason the process in pharmacies is so much more expensive is simply because they require inustrial machines. Take for instance a capsule machine. A typical ug is using one that costs anywhere from $200-$1200 or so. That suits their needs. I have seen industrial machines that cost $60K or more. So while I don't PERSONALLY KNOW how much it costs to sterilize products in a real pharmacy, I would say a good part of their expenditure is on industrial equipment as opposed to more "personal" equipment. And I do have to refer back to what I said prior--just because the government makes you do it does NOT mean it is necessarily the best or the most cost effective way to go.

I remember a long time ago the library of congress spent $40,000 on the commission of a poem in which the sole line was "poem." Yeah, THAT was a real necessity

In any case, I think you have some absolutely valid points. I think your sole error was grouping all ug's together. That is like me putting kharachi or upjohn along with qv and denkall because they all are government regulated pharmacies.

A broad umbrella will block TOO much light from the truth.

 

[michaeltt]

One Very Well Known Ug Lab owner just was arrested for posession, so watch out. only a matter of time before two and two is put together.

 

[The Terminator]

Not to worry though as ANYONE who has had a teenager at any time knows that teenagers know EVERYTHING , and you cant tell them anything different (since they already know it all )

So if some teenage boy is making your UG "lab" gear then you will be fine LOL

 

[Wrongun]

Well hell, I agree with most of what you said there. There are alltogether too many new ug's popping up everywhere, many of which are of poor quality. Fortunately for us ug users, these guys will usually last no more than a few months before people start questioning them and they leave the scene. And the few intelligent of us will not always shop around for the best deal, but rather stick with a proven ug who we have always had success with. However I DO see way too many guys jumping all over the cheapest vial of test they can find, and THAT is poor judgement.

However--about the lab tests--keep in mind that there haven't been any tests posted anywhere I've seen since "factory direct" powders have been around. I really do believe this is going to make for more accurate products.

Lastly, going back to the sterility issue, part of the reason the process in pharmacies is so much more expensive is simply because they require inustrial machines. Take for instance a capsule machine. A typical ug is using one that costs anywhere from $200-$1200 or so. That suits their needs. I have seen industrial machines that cost $60K or more. So while I don't PERSONALLY KNOW how much it costs to sterilize products in a real pharmacy, I would say a good part of their expenditure is on industrial equipment as opposed to more "personal" equipment. And I do have to refer back to what I said prior--just because the government makes you do it does NOT mean it is necessarily the best or the most cost effective way to go.

I remember a long time ago the library of congress spent $40,000 on the commission of a poem in which the sole line was "poem." Yeah, THAT was a real necessity

In any case, I think you have some absolutely valid points. I think your sole error was grouping all ug's together. That is like me putting kharachi or upjohn along with qv and denkall because they all are government regulated pharmacies.

A broad umbrella will block TOO much light from the truth.

I agree and my intention was nto to group them all together as i said in an earlier reply i use one myself for meds such as tren & EQ but the point being there are UG labs and UG labs as you righty point out.

It can be a catch 22 as how does a UG lab even with investment obtain good reputation etc without cutom and consistant levels of quality. There are some that have done this for some years but inevatably their products are often slighty more expensive (due largely i would say to the processes they have had to adopt to maintain these standards). What i am most concerned about and teh reason for my ''rant thread'' is i can nto understand why many make their total decision on which product type to inject based on price and quality of label alone (as the UG lab tries to become established / make a killing and get out). This is when it comes back to many will pay hansomely for food, supps, gym fees etc etc but cut corners on AAS that they intend to inject i find quite amazing TBH (not directed at you but in general and teh reason for the thread).

Anyway good comments bro

Wrongun!