ttlpkg....IT depression is real....

[the nature boy]

I'm on the east coast, and we're getting hit hard too. Like code said, we're laying off VP's now.

 

[strongchick]

I understand that he's above and beyond NT admin, but if he's cross-trained, he should be able to get a different job.

That, to me, is like a CEO complaining because he can't make 2 million a year anymore. If I'm forced to change jobs, I fully realize that I will probably step back at least one level and take a pay cut.

This also seems to me to be symptomatic of all these schools and programs churning out certified professionals. You end up, in many cases, with people that are book smart in a certain area, lacking experience, and having no cross-training.

Certifications and specialized professionals are great, but it can be very limiting.

dude...a CCIE or CCNP is not like other certs. I agree you should have other skills. But if you get CCIE or even CCNP, you probably don't have time to study for other things...that program is so intense. Remember, a CCIE goes to a lab with Cisco head techies gazing over you to see if you can solve their riddles. And a CCNP cannot be acquired without SOME handson.

And face it, most normal people figure that if they stay out of management, the more experience they get, the more money they get. That's the whole point of being a techie, at least I thought.

Incomes should balance out a bit, given lower demand, but not even able to find a job?

I'm shaking my head at this.

 

[Lao Tzu]

thats sad. all these people devoting 5 or 6 years to getting a degree that won't be good for more than a couple years in an unreliable business.

 

[the nature boy]

is there such a thing as being overspecialized then? We don't have any CCIE's but we do tons of Cisco implementations all the time. CCIE's would probably be too expensive, plus let's face it, if you have proper connections with vendors and have a somewhat large expereinced organization, CCIE's aren't needed IMO.

 

[Code]

I'm in the Bay Area out in California.

Being specialized is tantamount to death. I look for multi-faceted skill sets in an employee, the day of the 'role player' in IT is gone, no one gets a paycheck for being a Tape Ape or DB admin.

 

[TheProject]

dude...a CCIE or CCNP is not like other certs. I agree you should have other skills. But if you get CCIE or even CCNP, you probably don't have time to study for other things...that program is so intense. Remember, a CCIE goes to a lab with Cisco head techies gazing over you to see if you can solve their riddles. And a CCNP cannot be acquired without SOME handson.

And face it, most normal people figure that if they stay out of management, the more experience they get, the more money they get. That's the whole point of being a techie, at least I thought.

Incomes should balance out a bit, given lower demand, but not even able to find a job?

I'm shaking my head at this.

Believe me, I know a CCIE or CCNP is not like other certs, and you may not have time to study for other certs concurrently, but you have to decide on your path of progression. The tech I've got on staff got his MCSE, and then went after Cisco certification. He's a CCNA right now, and is pursuing further Cisco certification because it interests him. However, he doesn't want to do *just* routers.

In my experience, what you said about staying out of management was true a year or two ago, but not so much anymore. There comes a point where you simply cannot advance any more. I've got a buddy who does mainframe work, and he's stuck where he's at. Sure, he makes good money, but there's no more career progression for him.

Personally, I've always wanted to get into management. I enjoy the techie work, but I get sick of getting the same question every damn day. How many times do I have to tell people how to open e-mail? That's an exaggeration, but I'm sure you understand what I mean.

I think there are jobs out there, but not nearly as many high-demand, high salary jobs as there once were. It drives me nuts to hear all these IT training places advertise on the radio. "Come get trained in Microsoft, Cisco, or Novell! Make $60,000 a year!"

The job market is tight, yes, but this is not the great depression all over again.

 

[TheProject]

I'm in the Bay Area out in California.

Being specialized is tantamount to death. I look for multi-faceted skill sets in an employee, the day of the 'role player' in IT is gone, no one gets a paycheck for being a Tape Ape or DB admin.

Amen to that. I'm part manager, project leader, server admin, help desk tech, tape operator, and network admin. When I hired my last tech in February, I looked for experience and a broad skill set.

 

[the nature boy]

I think there are jobs out there, but not nearly as many high-demand, high salary jobs as there once were. It drives me nuts to hear all these IT training places advertise on the radio. "Come get trained in Microsoft, Cisco, or Novell! Make $60,000 a year!"

Dude those places fucking suck. I went to one of those places like 4 years ago to study Novell Netware (remember that?). The material is so bad and dumbed down for all the rejects and mullets heads and drooling open mouth breathers out there. They claim to have some sort of standardized test to only let those that are capable of comprehending the concepts actaully take the courses. Instead they let anyone come in, and most of them drop out (including me). Those places are shady. Those places cost $$$$'s too!!

 

[TheProject]

Dude those places fucking suck. I went to one of those places like 4 years ago to study Novell Netware (remember that?). The material is so bad and dumbed down for all the rejects and mullets heads and drooling open mouth breathers out there. They claim to have some sort of standardized test to only let those that are capable of comprehending the concepts actaully take the courses. Instead they let anyone come in, and most of them drop out (including me). Those places are shady. Those places cost $$$$'s too!!

I think there's some value to the material that they teach, but you're not going to create a competent tech of any sort in a matter of weeks. I had several applicants with no experience that went through that training, and suddenly thought they were technical wizards.

If someone wants to go to classes there, and do some work on an entry level help desk, then cool. Don't get an MCSE and expect me to let you work on my servers with no real experience.

 

[the nature boy]

I think there's some value to the material that they teach, but you're not going to create a competent tech of any sort in a matter of weeks. I had several applicants with no experience that went through that training, and suddenly thought they were technical wizards.

If someone wants to go to classes there, and do some work on an entry level help desk, then cool. Don't get an MCSE and expect me to let you work on my servers with no real experience.

they may have some valuable material, but I'd rather buy a book instead. You can have a cert or whatever, but no matter how much you know there's going to be a learning curve whenever you enter a new environment.