*The Perpetual Muscle Mass EXPLOSION: Pre-PCT(Active Recovery), Bridging & Cruising*

[Mac173]

Those pics in my signature are of me about 5 months ago.

Currently MUCH bigger and MUCH leaner...

Let's get em up there then.

 

[Primordial Performance]

Ross,

You are partly correct about the proviron and primo being only very mildly suppressive. But this is not the case with 17aa orals.

Letting up on the brakes of suppression by 10-20% is not going to allow anybody to recover. You cant expect to take a “less suppressive” AAS in hopes of allowing your testes to kick up production. Hell, your HPTA can barely recover when AAS are dropped all together, and even super-physiological doses of HCG therapy takes time to reach full recovery.

Let me dip into the cookie jar…

Here is Dbol as contraceptive at only 15mg/day (I like to call this shutdown) -

Effects of an anabolic steroid (metandienone) on spermatogenesis.
PK Holma
Contraception, Feb 1977; 15(2): 151-62.

A 15mg/day dose caused a 50% reduction in LH & FSH and a 69% decrease in testosterone levels. -

Effect of an anabolic steroid (metandienon) on plasma LH-FSH, and testosterone and on the response to intravenous administration of LRH.
P Holma and H Adlercreutz
Acta Endocrinol (Copenh), Dec 1976; 83(4): 856-64.
Only 2.5mg/day of anavar suppressing Lh 40% and testosterone production 50% -

Malhotra A, Poon E, Tse WY, Pringle PJ, Hindmarsh PC, Brook CG 1993 The effects of oxandrolone on the growth hormone and gonadal axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty. Clin Endocrinol 38:393–398

Anavar in ratz brought LH to undetectable levels and FSH below 88% of base line. -

The effects of an anabolic steroid (oxandrolone) on reproductive development in the male rat.
BH Grokett, N Ahmad, and DW Warren
Acta Endocrinol (Copenh), Feb 1992; 126(2): 173-8.

In only 14 days of 10mg/day stanozolol lowered testosterone 55% -

Alteration of hormone levels in normal males given the anabolic steroid stanozolol.
M Small, GH Beastall, CG Semple, RA Cowan, and CD Forbes
Clin Endocrinol (Oxf), Jul 1984; 21(1): 49-55.

 

[jmead]

gyno issues? what kinda cycles you run?

whats your current stats?

i wanna see the much bigger and leaner version

i got some 1's if your interested you big sexy beast

 

[Pat_McCrotch]

your quoting AR? he is not well liked by a lot of bros here. Do you have any abstracts to show your position?

 

[Ross]

Ross,

You are partly correct about the proviron and primo being only very mildly suppressive. But this is not the case with 17aa orals.

Letting up on the brakes of suppression by 10-20% is not going to allow anybody to recover. You cant expect to take a “less suppressive” AAS in hopes of allowing your testes to kick up production. Hell, your HPTA can barely recover when AAS are dropped all together, and even super-physiological doses of HCG therapy takes time to reach full recovery.

Let me dip into the cookie jar…

Here is Dbol as contraceptive at only 15mg/day (I like to call this shutdown) -

Effects of an anabolic steroid (metandienone) on spermatogenesis.
PK Holma
Contraception, Feb 1977; 15(2): 151-62.

A 15mg/day dose caused a 50% reduction in LH & FSH and a 69% decrease in testosterone levels. -

Effect of an anabolic steroid (metandienon) on plasma LH-FSH, and testosterone and on the response to intravenous administration of LRH.
P Holma and H Adlercreutz
Acta Endocrinol (Copenh), Dec 1976; 83(4): 856-64.
Only 2.5mg/day of anavar suppressing Lh 40% and testosterone production 50% -

Malhotra A, Poon E, Tse WY, Pringle PJ, Hindmarsh PC, Brook CG 1993 The effects of oxandrolone on the growth hormone and gonadal axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty. Clin Endocrinol 38:393–398

Anavar in ratz brought LH to undetectable levels and FSH below 88% of base line. -

The effects of an anabolic steroid (oxandrolone) on reproductive development in the male rat.
BH Grokett, N Ahmad, and DW Warren
Acta Endocrinol (Copenh), Feb 1992; 126(2): 173-8.

In only 14 days of 10mg/day stanozolol lowered testosterone 55% -

Alteration of hormone levels in normal males given the anabolic steroid stanozolol.
M Small, GH Beastall, CG Semple, RA Cowan, and CD Forbes
Clin Endocrinol (Oxf), Jul 1984; 21(1): 49-55.

You are confusing "HPTA SHUTDOWN" with "HPTA inhibition". There is a HUGE difference.

Dianabol, Winstrol, and Anavar will all INHIBIT the HPTA, to varying degrees(as your posted studies DEMONSTRATE). THEY WILL NOT CAUSE SHUTDOWN, however.

Testosterone, Trenbolone, and DECA will cause a COMPLETE SHUTDOWN OF THE HPTA!

"We can see from the chart below that a simgle measly 100mg injection of Deca caused a total (100%) reduction of natural testosterone levels, and it took roughly a month to return those testosterone levels to baseline! All from 100mgs of Deca!"

These following drugs caused HPTA INHIBITION! NOT SHUTDOWN.

Effects of an anabolic steroid (metandienone) on spermatogenesis.
PK Holma
Contraception, Feb 1977; 15(2): 151-62.

A 15mg/day dose caused a 50% reduction in LH & FSH and a 69% decrease in testosterone levels. -

Effect of an anabolic steroid (metandienon) on plasma LH-FSH, and testosterone and on the response to intravenous administration of LRH.
P Holma and H Adlercreutz
Acta Endocrinol (Copenh), Dec 1976; 83(4): 856-64.
Only 2.5mg/day of anavar suppressing Lh 40% and testosterone production 50% -

Malhotra A, Poon E, Tse WY, Pringle PJ, Hindmarsh PC, Brook CG 1993 The effects of oxandrolone on the growth hormone and gonadal axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty. Clin Endocrinol 38:393–398

Anavar in ratz brought LH to undetectable levels and FSH below 88% of base line. -

The effects of an anabolic steroid (oxandrolone) on reproductive development in the male rat.
BH Grokett, N Ahmad, and DW Warren
Acta Endocrinol (Copenh), Feb 1992; 126(2): 173-8.

In only 14 days of 10mg/day stanozolol lowered testosterone 55% -

Alteration of hormone levels in normal males given the anabolic steroid stanozolol.
M Small, GH Beastall, CG Semple, RA Cowan, and CD Forbes
Clin Endocrinol (Oxf), Jul 1984; 21(1): 49-55.[/QUOTE

 

[solidspine]

LOL, there are quite a few here already, aren't there?

I heard that Elite was looking for a "JACKED Guru". I came to fill the spot

Ross we have a number of so called experts, if you are who you say you are and not a pseudo for one of the mental midgets,


You are the best thing forthis forum next to the 2nd coming,


Too many experts here that don’t lift don’t take gear and have no idea what they are talking about, in addition to screwing up every decent thread posted with their mindless tribal.

 

[Ross]

Ross,

You are partly correct about the proviron and primo being only very mildly suppressive. But this is not the case with 17aa orals.

Letting up on the brakes of suppression by 10-20% is not going to allow anybody to recover. You cant expect to take a “less suppressive” AAS in hopes of allowing your testes to kick up production. Hell, your HPTA can barely recover when AAS are dropped all together, and even super-physiological doses of HCG therapy takes time to reach full recovery.

.[/I]

The ONLY WAY that the HPTA can remain in a state of shutdown, is if the various hormone receptors in the Hypothalamus remain ACTIVATED.

When you are OFF cycle and simply running 200mgs Primo/50mgs Proviron, you are NOT providing sufficient substrate to cause overactivation of the hormone receptors in the hypothalamus and subsequently cause SHUTDOWN.

LH/FSH output will resume when the Hypothalamus detects a DECREASE in the number of androgen receptors activated, which INEVITABLE happens.

 

[Ross]

Ross we have a number of so called experts, if you are who you say you are and not a pseudo for one of the mental midgets,


You are the best thing forthis forum next to the 2nd coming,


Too many experts here that don’t lift don’t take gear and have no idea what they are talking about, in addition to screwing up every decent thread posted with their mindless tribal.

LOL

Very well articulated!

Thanks for the kind words my friend. I'll do my best!

 

[Stryker1992]

LOL

Very well articulated!

Thanks for the kind words my friend. I'll do my best!

Bro, you look and sound like a pussy!

hahaha, kidding, i just wanted in on the action. You are way bigger and stronger than me so don't kick my ass!

 

[Primordial Performance]

The ONLY WAY that the HPTA can remain in a state of shutdown, is if the various hormone receptors in the Hypothalamus remain ACTIVATED.

When you are OFF cycle and simply running 200mgs Primo/50mgs Proviron, you are NOT providing sufficient substrate to cause overactivation of the hormone receptors in the hypothalamus and subsequently cause SHUTDOWN.

LH/FSH output will resume when the Hypothalamus detects a DECREASE in the number of androgen receptors activated, which INEVITABLE happens.

Ross,

That graph you showed is just another example of exogenous AAS suppressing testosterone 80-90%. If you actually look at the graph – while keeping in mind your such diligent discrepancy between INHIBITION and SHUTDOWN, the Deca only caused INHIBITITION, and did not completely shut down testosterone production.

So, testosterone and Deca are no more inhibitory than the 17aa orals you mentioned.

Plus, the doses you recommended were way higher than the studies I mentioned showing 50-80% decreases in testosterone. Your 80mg+ Bridge recommendation will not allow recovery. That is a fact.

Look at the studies comparing a 5mg dose of a 17aa oral, compared to a 50mg dose of test. You get the same inhibition. You have a nice theory, but you are simply mistaken about the “minimal interference with HPTA function” associated with these 17aa orals.

-Pp