the greatest armies in the world

[hanselthecaretaker]

make's you wonder why so many foreign volunteers fought so effectively for the third reich

I've just highlighted the spanish and the croatians
the belgians and dutch fielded outstanding divisions for the reich also

the romanians and hungarians fought well on the eastern front too
the Italian's sent a whole corps to the eastern front

that was the big dance for the entire history of mankind
never again will two superpowers clash like the soviets and germany

Do you think Germany could've pulled it off without having to deal with the U.S./British on the western front, and their aid to the Soviets?

 

[Spartacus]

Do you think Germany could've pulled it off without having to deal with the U.S./British on the western front, and their aid to the Soviets?

tough call
if germany had captured moscow and thus divide the USSR effectively in two (moscow was a major key transit center) in 1941 or early-mid 1942
and finish off the north half and leningrad
then bring the full strength of the wehrmacht to the south and basically mop up
and end the war in the east before the winter of 1942

no way the USA and Britian get back into mainland europe

mighty if though
they got damn close to moscow and arguably only the severe winter(worst winter in around a 100years) saved moscow

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

tough call
if germany had captured moscow and thus divide the USSR effectively in two (moscow was a major key transit center) in 1941 or early-mid 1942
and finish off the north half and leningrad
then bring the full strength of the wehrmacht to the south and basically mop up
and end the war in the east before the winter of 1942

no way the USA and Britian get back into mainland europe

mighty if though
they got damn close to moscow and arguably only the severe winter(worst winter in around a 100years) saved moscow

I read somewhere that they could've taken Moscow earlier if they had access to come in from the south. I think it had something to do with Yugoslavia and Britain conflict that prevented it. Damn I wish I remember where that article was.

 

[javaguru]

I read somewhere that they could've taken Moscow earlier if they had access to come in from the south. I think it had something to do with Yugoslavia and Britain conflict that prevented it. Damn I wish I remember where that article was.

Barbarossa was delayed because Hitler had to clean up the Italian cluster fuck in Yugoslavia and Greece. Mussolini invaded Yugoslavia and Greece but was getting his ass kicked. It delayed the invasion of the Soviet Union by four weeks, it may have cost Germany the Eastern Front.

 

[Spartacus]

I read somewhere that they could've taken Moscow earlier if they had access to come in from the south. I think it had something to do with Yugoslavia and Britain conflict that prevented it. Damn I wish I remember where that article was.

not sure what you speak of
they germans were at the extreme ends of their supply lines fighting in awful weather conditions
their men were exhausted while the soviets were able to keep reinforcing with fresh units,particularily the siberian troops

germans came damn close though
it's argued the decision to encircle Kiev(which netted 600,000 POWs) cost gunderian's 2nd panzergruppe too much time
when guderian should have gone straight for moscow
for me it's tough critique the decision as the Kiev encirclement was a major victory
but it cost the effort on moscow
and by the time 2nd panzergruppe could resume it's offensive towards moscow the weather went sour
first rain and mud
then freezing conditions

 

[Spartacus]

come to think about it now
barbarossa was launched june 22
if the germans hadn't had to bail out the Italians by going into yugoslavia and greece
and having their airborne troops severely attrited to take crete

if the germans hadn't had to mess around in the balkans battling the brits,greece & yugoslavia
and had been able to launch barbarossa 6 weeks earlier
and thus have 6 weeks more clear weather to assault moscow

moscow would have fallen

 

[Spartacus]

The original blitzkrieg invasion plan, which the Axis called Operation Barbarossa, had called for the capture of Moscow within three to four months. However, despite large initial advances, the Wehrmacht was soon slowed by Soviet resistance (in particular during the Battle of Smolensk, which lasted from July through September 1941 and delayed the German offensive towards Moscow for two months). Having secured Smolensk, the Wehrmacht was forced to consolidate its lines around Leningrad and Kiev, further delaying the drive towards Moscow. The Axis advance was finally renewed on September 30, 1941, with an offensive codenamed Operation Typhoon, the goal of which was the capture of Moscow before the onset of winter.

After a successful initial advance leading to the encirclement and destruction of several Soviet armies, the German offensive was stopped by Soviet resistance at the Mozhaisk defensive line, just 120 km (75 mi) from the capital. Having penetrated the Soviet defenses, the Wehrmacht offensive was slowed by weather conditions, with autumn rains turning roads and fields into thick mud that significantly impeded Axis vehicles, horses, and soldiers. Although the onset of colder weather and the freezing of the ground allowed the Axis advance to continue, it continued to struggle in the face of the severe cold and stiffening Soviet resistance.

By early December, the lead German Panzer Groups stood less than 30 kilometers (19 mi) from the Kremlin, and Wehrmacht officers were able to see some of Moscow's buildings with binoculars; but, handicapped by cold and exhausted troops, the Axis forces were unable to make further advances. On December 5, 1941, fresh Soviet Siberian troops, prepared for winter warfare, attacked the German forces in front of Moscow; by January 1942, the Wehrmacht had been driven back 100 to 250 km (60 to 150 mi), ending the immediate threat to Moscow and marking the closest that Axis forces ever got to capturing the Soviet capital.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Moscow

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Barbarossa was delayed because Hitler had to clean up the Italian cluster fuck in Yugoslavia and Greece. Mussolini invaded Yugoslavia and Greece but was getting his ass kicked. It delayed the invasion of the Soviet Union by four weeks, it may have cost Germany the Eastern Front.

Ahhh yes it was Mussolini and Greece. Thanks bro.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

The original blitzkrieg invasion plan, which the Axis called Operation Barbarossa, had called for the capture of Moscow within three to four months. However, despite large initial advances, the Wehrmacht was soon slowed by Soviet resistance (in particular during the Battle of Smolensk, which lasted from July through September 1941 and delayed the German offensive towards Moscow for two months). Having secured Smolensk, the Wehrmacht was forced to consolidate its lines around Leningrad and Kiev, further delaying the drive towards Moscow. The Axis advance was finally renewed on September 30, 1941, with an offensive codenamed Operation Typhoon, the goal of which was the capture of Moscow before the onset of winter.

After a successful initial advance leading to the encirclement and destruction of several Soviet armies, the German offensive was stopped by Soviet resistance at the Mozhaisk defensive line, just 120 km (75 mi) from the capital. Having penetrated the Soviet defenses, the Wehrmacht offensive was slowed by weather conditions, with autumn rains turning roads and fields into thick mud that significantly impeded Axis vehicles, horses, and soldiers. Although the onset of colder weather and the freezing of the ground allowed the Axis advance to continue, it continued to struggle in the face of the severe cold and stiffening Soviet resistance.

By early December, the lead German Panzer Groups stood less than 30 kilometers (19 mi) from the Kremlin, and Wehrmacht officers were able to see some of Moscow's buildings with binoculars; but, handicapped by cold and exhausted troops, the Axis forces were unable to make further advances. On December 5, 1941, fresh Soviet Siberian troops, prepared for winter warfare, attacked the German forces in front of Moscow; by January 1942, the Wehrmacht had been driven back 100 to 250 km (60 to 150 mi), ending the immediate threat to Moscow and marking the closest that Axis forces ever got to capturing the Soviet capital.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Moscow

The word "ambitious" comes to mind.

Would've torn communism a new one. Hell, it might've eventually ended it, from a governmental standpoint at least.

 

[javaguru]

Ahhh yes it was Mussolini and Greece. Thanks bro.

Mussolini was to Hitler as that idiot friend we always have to bail out of trouble is to us.