The fall of America

[Nitro6]

any poli sci majors here?.....hegeomonic(sp) stability theory in Intl conflict , w/ us as the hegemon

 

[the nature boy]

while I'm somewhat familiar with that theory, Bin Ladden and his followers are mad men with no political agenda except for destruction, so I'm not sure that applies. I could be wrong.

 

[Test boy]

Nitro6- I though hegemony was a world unified into into one nation. I do not understand how that applies. There are many signs that the world has been moving slowly towards hegemony but how does this speed things up so much?

 

[Nitro6]

basicaly, the hegemonic model of international realations (IR)theorizes that in a world with one hegeomon (today that would be the US, but many countries have filled this role in the past) intl conflict will occur between states when one state gets tired of the current system and decides to overthrow the current hegemon OR several states unhappy w/the current hegeon will collude to reduce the power and influence of the hegemon....think of it as a pyrmaid w/the hegeon on top and many states striving for that top position....in current IR circles, at least before 11 SEPT, it was thought that China would be the challeger to the US

 

[chesty]

This has been an interesting discussion. Conan, sir, I have not given up on the US, but I do see the signs of self destruction. And you are right most of us will fight to the death to preserve this Empire. But I am dismayed and discouraged by the events and how the weeks have gone by. First it was an act of war, then it was a crime and now it is a tragedy. We renamed our campaign from Infinite Justice to whatever, just so we wouldn't step on any toes.

This is what worries me. If we are that willing and ready to comprimise on this, how easy will we compromise on what must be done.

I know the need for secrecy, but if we were really gettin' it on we would here about it. This is a different world and if we wait too long it could become a typical UN operation. We cannot let that happen.

We must act and act now, swiftly, not covertly. We must be brutal in our tactics, decisive in our victories, and unwavering in our beliefs. Our assault must be open and massive for anything less and we will not win this. Terrorism is like a cancer, no matter how exacting your surgery the only way to eradicate it is to remove some healthy tissue. By this I mean that we must be willing to accept the causulties of what some would call innocent. But I suspect that more than anything those innocent civilians will have no problem picking up weapons and killing us when we invade their country.

Now, I started this thread with a statement the Chinese made, and I have stayed on that side. I will explain now why.

I don't believe that the US is going to fall just yet. It will take time. And if we do not see the signs just now forming, when it does we will be too blind to see it. It frieghtens me to think this. I would never have believed it, but looking at the country and the type of people that inhabit it, I do wonder. Must we be hit in the head? Must a nuclear bomb go off in downtown DC before we wake up? Will that be to late?

It used to be that no one wanted to fuck with the US and now anyone with a half a nut is willing to try.

That is what scares me, the fact that it took the WTC to get us on the path again. How long before that fades from memory and we go back to "normal" Our own gov't says, go, spend, enjoy, and don't worry we are in control. We shouldn't have to have an event like this to unite us. That is the problem

I stand behind the US and will die for her, I just hope it is not in vain.

 

[freshr1]

chesty - i'm happy you've opened your eyes. i sure as hell hope the US doesnt fall, but then again every great empire does eventually. the thing they all had in common is they thought they were invincible. it saddens me when i hear people on here post "let's go nuke the fuckers into the ground", because those posters assume their country is invincible. we go over there, kick some ass, case closed. but it wont be like that ... hatred breeds hatred. it'll give the survivors more reason to go for another, bigger, terrorist act. you gotta "kill" these guys at the root of the problem which is that they're fanatical about their religion. they feel the west has invaded their way of life and their religion which is why they're doing this. there seems to be hope though, cause Bush & co are taking their time making sure the retalliation won't blow up in our faces.

to the US i say - get the fuck out of the middle east! let them deal with their own problems. they don't want your help. we got plenty of our own problems.


my $0.02

 

[madbomber31]

i'm sorry, did someone say that china would be the "next" dynasty??? china was a dynasty before america even had a non native step foot on its land... China is the longest lasting dynasty in the world... by far... you know its a dynasty when they have dynasties within a dynasty...


anyway....

we will all be fine... lots goin on that we have no idea about...

my major concern is this was sadaams doing.. whoever said it said it best... this man is older and dying... he wants to go out with a bang... so i say we give it to him... before he finds a way to hit us hard with the chemicals he is playing with... i fear for our soldiers... somewhere over there is a trap.. a chemical/biological trap... when our boys trip it many will become very ill... iraq and co. will claim victory... then will be destroyed.

i am very anti war... my posts have been bashed on the subject for my looking at things from other perspectives.. but this is just a tiny spec of what will happen... it will end up ugly.

 

[chesty]

My eyes have always been opened. I started a debate and kept it going. I don't agree with getting out of the middle east, that is not the problem. They say we have corrupted their religion and invaded them. But what they tout as their religion has nothing to do with Islam. They are just a bunch of nazis running around and mutilating women, killing whomever gets in their way and using religion as a shield.

Sure we got problems here. Do I hate them, sure I do, do they need to be eradicated. Yes, they do. If you remove the cancer, it will not return.

Did we hate Japan, sure did, did we destroy them, for the most part yes. Did we help them stand back on their own feet? Yes, we did. That is part of what we need to do now.

 

[whatwasthat?]

and the bottom line is that this nation was founded under GOD! He is in control, don't you worry....

??

 

[conan69]

This has been an interesting discussion. Conan, sir, I have not given up on the US, but I do see the signs of self destruction. And you are right most of us will fight to the death to preserve this Empire. But I am dismayed and discouraged by the events and how the weeks have gone by. First it was an act of war, then it was a crime and now it is a tragedy. We renamed our campaign from Infinite Justice to whatever, just so we wouldn't step on any toes.

This is what worries me. If we are that willing and ready to comprimise on this, how easy will we compromise on what must be done.

I know the need for secrecy, but if we were really gettin' it on we would here about it. This is a different world and if we wait too long it could become a typical UN operation. We cannot let that happen.

We must act and act now, swiftly, not covertly. We must be brutal in our tactics, decisive in our victories, and unwavering in our beliefs. Our assault must be open and massive for anything less and we will not win this. Terrorism is like a cancer, no matter how exacting your surgery the only way to eradicate it is to remove some healthy tissue. By this I mean that we must be willing to accept the causulties of what some would call innocent. But I suspect that more than anything those innocent civilians will have no problem picking up weapons and killing us when we invade their country.

Now, I started this thread with a statement the Chinese made, and I have stayed on that side. I will explain now why.

I don't believe that the US is going to fall just yet. It will take time. And if we do not see the signs just now forming, when it does we will be too blind to see it. It frieghtens me to think this. I would never have believed it, but looking at the country and the type of people that inhabit it, I do wonder. Must we be hit in the head? Must a nuclear bomb go off in downtown DC before we wake up? Will that be to late?

It used to be that no one wanted to fuck with the US and now anyone with a half a nut is willing to try.

That is what scares me, the fact that it took the WTC to get us on the path again. How long before that fades from memory and we go back to "normal" Our own gov't says, go, spend, enjoy, and don't worry we are in control. We shouldn't have to have an event like this to unite us. That is the problem

I stand behind the US and will die for her, I just hope it is not in vain.

you do make a very valid point... only time will tell what kind of sack this nation has left...my belief the "downward spiral" of this nation will only happen for one reason..liberalism