Some Old Timers Talk About Steroids

[Nelson Montana]

Over the years I've come in contact, either personally, through doing interviews, or just doing research, with a lot of the guys from the classic era of bodybuilding and their admission of drug use was pretty candid.

I just thought I'd throw a few remarks out there that I remember off the top of my head.

Don Howorth: People said dianabol didn't do much but they were full of it. I took 20 mgs a day and my bench press skyrocketed. I never felt any side effects. I don't think I took enough to notice. "

Larry Scott: "We only used a couple of dianabol pills a day and they really made a difference. Messed with the libido though."

Dave Draper: "I just did a little Winstrol prior to a show because everybody else was doing something and I wanted that edge too. I heard that Winstrol didn't bloat so that's what I used. "


Sergio Oliva: I used 200 mgs of Deca a week and 25 mgs of Winstrol a day, but I cut out the Winstrol becaue i started getting too "veiny." (!!!)


Less Stockton: (from the Muscle Beach era) "I wish we had them in my day. We would have done anything to get more muscle."

(Friend of Arnold). "Arnold was a madmen. He took a shot of Primo and 10 dianabol every day. No one was doing that much at the time."

Don Ross: "My favorite desert is dianabol pie!" (Seriously, he'd make a pie with a bottle of dbol and bring it to the gym).

Zabo Koszewski: I never took steroids. I wasn't that big anyway and all I had going for me was my definition. I figured the sauce would cover it up. But I knew there came a time I just couldn't compete against guys who were younger and bigger and juiced to the gills.

(Friend of Frank Zane). "Frank used low dosages of Primo and winny but he was also the first guy to use Armour Thyroid to get cut. It worked!"

Danny Padilla. "Dbol worked just fine for me so that's all I used. "

And a couple from years later...


Dareem Charles. "I never use any stimulants. I'm too thin as it is and fat burners just make me smaller."

Craig Titus. (For what its worth). Anything over a gram is a waste. I never noticed any gains beyond that, but I still went to 2 grams -- only because if it gave me another ounce of muscle, it was worth it. "

 

[Stryker1992]

It is interesting when you think about how crazy people get today with stacking, doses, etc. And this is people who do not even compete!

 

[bren565]

i dont even believe taking the amounts they did was even necessary, i think its obvious theres an exponential graph.. i mean theres no doubt that the difference between 10 mgs of dianabol is going to be greater than 1mg..but 90 mg ed of dbolisnt going to really make much of a difference if u add another 20-30... i think it shows a serious loss of reality,etc.. sound like drug addics to me (sorry) not comparing them to people who take heroin.. it just sounds like that.. sounds more mental to some of them if anytrhing " id do anything for another ounce of muscle.."

 

[sebaco2011]

Theres a video on youtube just type in ricdrasin , hes from the "golden age" of bodybuilding and he interviewed Bill Grant , they said in those days they would take 100 mg test a WEEK and some winstrol , sometimes cytomel, and dianabol as well.. Crazy how these guys got so big with so little but they trained for HOURS , I really dont get how they got that big for training so log on such little juice, even with good genetics training for 3 - 4 hours 5 or 6 times a week seems crazy!

 

[santj49]

I am 35. My father placed in a couple local bodybuiding competitions in the early and mid 80's and place 2nd in one and third in another. When I was the young age of 18. My buddy and I experimented with d-ball. The pill was tiny and white. A quantity of 100 could fit in a bottle not much bigger than a 10cc vile. I was taking them and was stupid and would leave this little bottle, brown in color and printed in bulgarian language out. My father found the bottle in my room on top of my dresser. He then proceeded to flush the rest of them. He knew exactly what it was. He said in his gym back in the early 80's so many bodybuiders were abusing this drug like crazy. He said you could find them on the floor, it was used so much back then. I asked him if he used them to get his trophies for bodybuilding. He said he tried it and it gave him anxiety and he stopped. I call b.s. because I trained natural after that for several years and never seemed to get to a competition level. However other factors were at play. It seems d-ball was the drug of choice in those days.

 

[Arabian]

Good find Nelson, its amazing that even with all the advancements in supplements and roids the time and tested way always prevails. Like you always advocate , slow steady gains will be kept over time.

 

[zedhed]

Yup Nelson and yup Arab. Slow and steady. It is the way to go!

 

[Sub-Zero]

jesus@ the dbol comments.

it sounds like they just took it randomly. 10 dbol a day???

dbol pie???

just popping them like whatever?

talk about fluctuating your hormones...i wonder how common gyno and "roidrage" was back then

 

[ronc26k]

i wonder how common gyno and "roidrage" was back then

No such thing as roidrage

 

[Nelson Montana]

jesus@ the dbol comments.

it sounds like they just took it randomly. 10 dbol a day???

dbol pie???

just popping them like whatever?

talk about fluctuating your hormones...i wonder how common gyno and "roidrage" was back then

Back then, dbol was only in a 5 mg tab.

 

[cuthroat]

jesus@ the dbol comments.

it sounds like they just took it randomly. 10 dbol a day???

dbol pie???

just popping them like whatever?

talk about fluctuating your hormones...i wonder how common gyno and "roidrage" was back then

gyno was probably pretty common I am sure...see example below courtesy of lolsnaps.com

 

[Sub-Zero]

Back then, dbol was only in a 5 mg tab.

ohhh alright

 

[Voxide3]

Plain and simple, bodybuilding work ethic was much different back then. Old school pro's were all about sculpting and bring the body to aesthetic perfection by making sure everything was developed symmetrically. 50mg of dbol per day was a very high dose by standards in those days. Pro's were mostly natty for the most part, only using winny and dbol as little boosters before the competition. Today it's all just a competition of who can turn their body into the biggest chemical dump. I'm not saying today's pro's don't work hard, of course they do, but it's a different kind of work. The focus is all about size, ignoring symmetry and a general "good" looking physique. Ideas like this transfer over into the real world and then you have all these people on massive cycles who STILL look like absolute shit. Like what the fuck are you doing with that gear? Snorting the pills and drinking the vials? A lot of shit has changed.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Plain and simple, bodybuilding work ethic was much different back then. Old school pro's were all about sculpting and bring the body to aesthetic perfection by making sure everything was developed symmetrically. 50mg of dbol per day was a very high dose by standards in those days. Pro's were mostly natty for the most part, only using winny and dbol as little boosters before the competition. Today it's all just a competition of who can turn their body into the biggest chemical dump. I'm not saying today's pro's don't work hard, of course they do, but it's a different kind of work. The focus is all about size, ignoring symmetry and a general "good" looking physique. Ideas like this transfer over into the real world and then you have all these people on massive cycles who STILL look like absolute shit. Like what the fuck are you doing with that gear? Snorting the pills and drinking the vials? A lot of shit has changed.

I don;t care so much what pros do. I don't follow it. They need to do what they need to do. I'm concerned more about the guys who just want to have a better looking body and think they have to take far more than they need just because they're listening to some idiot on the internet who calls himself an expert.

 

[sharkmaster]

I had 40 tbol 10 mg pills left over from a cycle from about a year back and saw a german study that had 10 athlete men take 10mg tbol a day for six weeks with no sign of negative health effects. so i thought what the hell and have been taking 10mg first thing every morning for about 2 weeks now and theres no doubt its doing something...Im not juiced to shit but i can push my workouts harder and recover better and have a better pump for sure. On turanibols profile it says 10mg is 1.5 times a day test production but i think steroids have many more effects than just this and that its a poor way to judge its effectiveness. by the time im done with 40 days ill expect to be 8-10 pounds heavier, leaner and make some decent strength gains. I could see myself doing this again in the future and kinda wish i would have had something like this recommended to me for a first cycle. The things is that recovery should be like cake.

 

[Voxide3]

I don;t care so much what pros do. I don't follow it. They need to do what they need to do. I'm concerned more about the guys who just want to have a better looking body and think they have to take far more than they need just because they're listening to some idiot on the internet who calls himself an expert.

Well in that case, I agree fully. The amount of misinformation going around is fucking scary, at times. All I'm trying to say is, there is a ridiculous amount of steroid users that look like shit.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Well in that case, I agree fully. The amount of misinformation going around is fucking scary, at times. All I'm trying to say is, there is a ridiculous amount of steroid users that look like shit.

True.

 

[Judo Tom]

I agree I think dosages should be low and sane. The most common cycle I hear/see being done is the everything I can afford w/ a bit of pct thrown in.

no care or thought of food, supps, training, diet, rest, work ethic, intensity. people just assume the juice does the work.

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ i agree.

what ends up happening IMO and i have no studies to back this up but I am going by personal experience and reading peoples posts on here. is your receptors get shot. so 500mg per week of test becomes useless... so you need 1g or 1.5g. or with deca.. 300 a week is no good, so you need 600 or 700 per week.

 

[Arabian]

I agree I think dosages should be low and sane. The most common cycle I hear/see being done is the everything I can afford w/ a bit of pct thrown in.

no care or thought of food, supps, training, diet, rest, work ethic, intensity. people just assume the juice does the work.

Absolutely Tom, this is the main problem we see here on Elite is that people think that the more gear they take that they can skip meals and take short cuts and not run PCT. It amazes me that the amount of people that start cycles that are waiting on this or that compound to complete that cycle or that are 8 weeks into a cycle then make a post about what they need to order for PCT. People need to have all gear and PCT in hand before taking the first shot or pill. Thanks Tom.

 

[Judo Tom]

^^^ i agree.

what ends up happening IMO and i have no studies to back this up but I am going by personal experience and reading peoples posts on here. is your receptors get shot. so 500mg per week of test becomes useless... so you need 1g or 1.5g. or with deca.. 300 a week is no good, so you need 600 or 700 per week.

hmmm honestly i dont know much about recptors getting shot to be honest.

I think another problem is that people try 500mg and then assume 1g must be better. then next time try 1g + another compound and then that cycle just continues.

I also think people go from normal time on = time off to longer cycles with less time off all while upping the dosages and adding more and more compounds.

People also dont take into considration sides and shutdown and everything else. They just keep adding more and more drugs thinking that will fix things.

They never think to focus more on their diet, eat more protein, train harder, rest more .... nope its just more and more drugs.

 

[UA_Iron]

Mentzer:"I took 400mg of Deca Durabolin every 10-14 days,....and no more than five Dianabol a day."

I think I read somewhere else that he was pushing about 6g Deca/week - which I find much more believable.

He was also an amphetamine abuser

 

[UA_Iron]

Andreas Munzer had this written in his log book. I don't know if he actually took it or not, but either way it was in consideration.

Weeks 1-10
ephedrine
aspirin
clenbuterol
valium
captagon-- scheduled 1 drug in the US, meaning no legitimate medical use-- it is an amphetamine-type stimulant--
cytomel

Weeks 1-5
500mg daily of test enanthate
152mg daily of parabolan
150mg daily of dianabol
150mg daily of halotestin
20 IU daily of HGH
20 IU daily of Insulin

Weeks 6-8
300mg daily of masteron
152mg daily of parabolan
250mg daily of winstrol tabs
150mg daily of halotestin
50mg daily of winstrol inj
24 IU daily of HGH

Weeks 9-10
200mg daily of masteron
100mg daily of winny inj
200mg daily of halotestin
400mg daily of winny tabs
24 IU daily of HGH
Insulin daily
IGF-1 daily

Days 1-3 leading up to show
aldactone, lasix

 

[squatzilla]

Unless one is a bodybuilder who competes, I can't see why anyone would run high dosages. Not to knock some guys on here, but when the injectables are into the GRAMS per week..........................

 

[Arabian]

Andreas Munzer had this written in his log book. I don't know if he actually took it or not, but either way it was in consideration.

Weeks 1-10
ephedrine
aspirin
clenbuterol
valium
captagon-- scheduled 1 drug in the US, meaning no legitimate medical use-- it is an amphetamine-type stimulant--
cytomel

Weeks 1-5
500mg daily of test enanthate
152mg daily of parabolan
150mg daily of dianabol
150mg daily of halotestin
20 IU daily of HGH
20 IU daily of Insulin

Weeks 6-8
300mg daily of masteron
152mg daily of parabolan
250mg daily of winstrol tabs
150mg daily of halotestin
50mg daily of winstrol inj
24 IU daily of HGH

Weeks 9-10
200mg daily of masteron
100mg daily of winny inj
200mg daily of halotestin
400mg daily of winny tabs
24 IU daily of HGH
Insulin daily
IGF-1 daily

Days 1-3 leading up to show
aldactone, lasix

Holy S*(&&.. Are you serious? No wonder he dropped dead. Damn

 

[Nelson Montana]

Andreas Munzer had this written in his log book. I don't know if he actually took it or not, but either way it was in consideration.

Weeks 1-10
ephedrine
aspirin
clenbuterol
valium
captagon-- scheduled 1 drug in the US, meaning no legitimate medical use-- it is an amphetamine-type stimulant--
cytomel

Weeks 1-5
500mg daily of test enanthate
152mg daily of parabolan
150mg daily of dianabol
150mg daily of halotestin
20 IU daily of HGH
20 IU daily of Insulin

Weeks 6-8
300mg daily of masteron
152mg daily of parabolan
250mg daily of winstrol tabs
150mg daily of halotestin
50mg daily of winstrol inj
24 IU daily of HGH

Weeks 9-10
200mg daily of masteron
100mg daily of winny inj
200mg daily of halotestin
400mg daily of winny tabs
24 IU daily of HGH
Insulin daily
IGF-1 daily

Days 1-3 leading up to show
aldactone, lasix

Muntzer was hardly an old school guy -- he's very typical of the the modern breed. And he's dead.

 

[stevesmi]

i posted this just this morning on another forum.

After months of stomach pain, Münzer was admitted to hospital on the morning of March 12. By 7pm, doctors had decided to operate to stop bleeding from his stomach, but shortly afterwards his Liver and then kidneys failed. His condition by this point was too severe for a blood transfusion—he died on the morning of March 14, aged 31.[1][2]
The autopsy gave the cause of death as dystrophic multiple-organ-failure.[3] Some of the specific autopsy findings:[3]

• An extremely muscular physique, with an almost complete absence of subcutaneous fat
• Affecting the Liver were numerous table-tennis-ball-sized tumors, typical for doping; half the Liver consisted simply of a crumbly mass, similar to polystyrene (Styrofoam)
• Diminutive testes
• Cardiac hypertrophy (Münzer's heart weighed 636g; a normal man's heart usually weighs 300–350g)

Münzer's electrolytes were also completely out of balance, and his potassium levels were extremely high. Traces of about twenty different drugs were found, along with acute toxicity (perhaps caused by a stimulant).
Schwarzenegger sent a wreath to Munzer's funeral in Styria, with the message 'A last greeting to a friend.'

 

[swm1972]

Theres a video on youtube just type in ricdrasin , hes from the "golden age" of bodybuilding and he interviewed Bill Grant , they said in those days they would take 100 mg test a WEEK and some winstrol , sometimes cytomel, and dianabol as well.. Crazy how these guys got so big with so little but they trained for HOURS , I really dont get how they got that big for training so log on such little juice, even with good genetics training for 3 - 4 hours 5 or 6 times a week seems crazy!

He is mistaken (or full of it) in the dosage he is quoting. 100mg/week is HRT level dosage, you won't get bigger then you would have naturally @ 100mgs/week. Even if you add in 20-30 mgs a day of dbol or winny you won't see astounding gains at natural levels of testosterone. Considering these guys he is referring to had been training for years and had reached their natural potential, I truly doubt a replacement amount of test and a couple dbol a day would have added significant mass.

 

[h.m]

judging by the experience and knowledge of today, the logic tells me they used FAR more drugs than stated. As they dident know stuff like more drugs dont meen more gains like we do today,.
They just tried what worked. So if someone did 20mg of dbol, and found 50mg of dbol to be better, they did 50mg no doubt. -and so on

 

[UA_Iron]

Muntzer was hardly an old school guy -- he's very typical of the the modern breed. And he's dead.

My first comment was on Mike Metzner though... which I speculated was in the range of 6g of deca/day.

Anyone who believes a pro when they say "I just popped a few dbol a day" and got like this is living in dream world.


Munzer's prime was nearly 20 years ago, feelin' a little old?

 

[Judo Tom]

wow this thread has made me a little sad.

we need a thread talking about great gains from low dosages. we need to help get those stories out there more and more.

 

[ledhead]

I met Dennis Newman after he won the Nationals. He was nice enough to talk to my friends and I. He said "take everything and anything you can get your hands on, and dont believe there are certain drugs that are for bulking and cutting, he said, you can bulk and cut on any drug." That was Newman's philosophy, too bad he ended up with Leukemia. I thought he would have been the man....

 

[Nelson Montana]

wow this thread has made me a little sad.

we need a thread talking about great gains from low dosages. we need to help get those stories out there more and more.

That was the original point. I guess to a 25 year old guy, Muntzer is ancient history. He's been dead most of their life. But that's not what I mean by "old timers." I mean the guys who were doing this when the whole drug scene began in the early 60's. Those guys were not 250-280. Larry Scott was 5'8" 200 pounds. Frank Zane was 5' 10" 195 pounds. Don Howorth was 5' 9" 210. They weren't 4% bf -- more like 10%. And looked great as far as I'm concerned.

By the way, here's a pic of Don in his "juiced" state of 20 mgs of dbol a day. Google Image Result for http://www.donhoworth.com/images/DonHoworth.jpg

 

[stevesmi]

wow this thread has made me a little sad.

we need a thread talking about great gains from low dosages. we need to help get those stories out there more and more.

both transformation contestants used low dosages. bader did as well.. i think moya did too.

my tren log i put up i used 250-500mg per week cyp and 100 tren EOD, and then ran 100 mast EOD .. sometimes stacking the 3 of them together. and my cycle was solid.

i think on this site the members all believe in short conservative cycles.. we have a couple guys who believe in more is better and running 2 year cycles. which is fine, but its not the way i recommend to run AAS.

 

[UA_Iron]

We'll never truly know what the pros of yesteryear ran to get their physiques.

I have a hard time believing "oh I popped a few dbol and this was the outcome" is anywhere near true. You guys can believe whatever you want, stick your fingers in your ears and go "na na na na" but the fact is that 99% of us aren't gonna look like that on 20mg dbol.

 

[Nelson Montana]

We'll never truly know what the pros of yesteryear ran to get their physiques.

I have a hard time believing "oh I popped a few dbol and this was the outcome" is anywhere near true. You guys can believe whatever you want, stick your fingers in your ears and go "na na na na" but the fact is that 99% of us aren't gonna look like that on 20mg dbol.

That's a little insulting bro. I think that type of thinking is sour grapes and leads to people upping the dosages before learning how to be a better bodybuilder.

I became a body model at age 41 before ever touching a steroid in my life. I was hardly huge, but I looked good and my genetics SUCK. In my avatar photo, at age 44, I did 200 mgs of primo and a couple of dbol a day for a month before the show. That's it. I see guys half my age who do ten times that much and don't look as good. We've become too used to thinking it's ALL drugs. It isn;t . Or at least, it doesn't have to be,

 

[Judo Tom]

truth is most people will never know what 20-30mg of just dbol will do to them. I have seen plenty of people do it and BLOW up and keep their gains. These people trained like their life depended on it. UNREAL intensity.

 

[UA_Iron]

That's a little insulting bro. I think that type of thinking is sour grapes and leads to people upping the dosages before learning how to be a better bodybuilder.

I became a body model at age 41 before ever touching a steroid in my life. I was hardly huge, but I looked good and my genetics SUCK. In my avatar photo, at age 44, I did 200 mgs of primo and a couple of dbol a day for a month before the show. That's it. I see guys half my age who do ten times that much and don't look as good. We've become too used to thinking it's ALL drugs. It isn;t . Or at least, it doesn't have to be,

I never said you looked bad Nelson.

I have no sour grapes, I'm where I want to be at and being bigger isn't that appealing to me anymore.

Being cut makes everyone look better, and admittedly thats the toughest thing to do. Dieting would help people (on this board) more than trying to overcompensate with higher doses.

And Tom, I've blown up on 20mg dbol/day. I wouldnt dream of going over 30mg/day. Stuff makes me feel like crap. I had the bloated red faced monster look going on.


All these facts aside, pros of today take a ton of drugs, and I still stand by my belief that they did back in the day too.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I never said you looked bad Nelson.

I have no sour grapes, I'm where I want to be at and being bigger isn't that appealing to me anymore.

Being cut makes everyone look better, and admittedly thats the toughest thing to do. Dieting would help people (on this board) more than trying to overcompensate with higher doses.

And Tom, I've blown up on 20mg dbol/day. I wouldnt dream of going over 30mg/day. Stuff makes me feel like crap. I had the bloated red faced monster look going on.


All these facts aside, pros of today take a ton of drugs, and I still stand by my belief that they did back in the day too.

No, I didn't take it personally bro -- just saying that claiming some of these guys might be lying because it's impossible to look like that without high dosages, that's just not true. Now obviously you can;t look like a modern day pro without an insane about of drugs, but that's a different thing.